100699 PK AgPCITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
PARK COMNIISSION MEETING COUNCIL CHAMBERS
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 26,1999 7:30 P.M.
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AGENDA
CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
A. Roll Call
Puzak
Bensman
Daliman
Arnst
Themig
Berndt
B. Review Agenda
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Park Commission Meeting Minutes of October 12, 1999 (Att. -#2A Draft
Minutes)
MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
REPORTS
A. Park Foundation Meeting October 14, 1999
REVIEW LITTLE LEAGUES REQUEST TO ADD DUGOUTS TO FREEMAN
FIELD #2 (Att. -#5)'
DISCUSS LRT WINTER USE
REVIEW OF TO DO LIST (Att. -#7)
OLD BUSINESS
NEW BUSINESS
ADJOURNMENT
Council Liaison:
November - Dallman
December - Puzak
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CITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
PARK COMMISSION COUNCIL CHAMBERS
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 12,1999 7:30 P.M.
MINUTES
1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING UnAFT i
Co -chair Dallman called the meeting to order at 7:31 p.m.
A. Roll Call
Present: Co- chairs Dallman and Arnst; Commissioners, Puzak, Berndt and Themig;
City Administrator Jim Hurm; City Engineer Larry Brown; Councilmember
Scott Zerby
Also Present: Mayor Woody Love
Absent: Commissioner Bensman
B. Review Agenda
Commissioner Berndt asked to include a report on recycling of plastics for Freeman Park.
. It was added under item #8, Old Business. There were no other changes to the agenda.
Arnst moved, Puzak seconded to approve the agenda as amended. Motion passed 510.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Park Commission Meeting Minutes of September 14,1999
Puzak moved, Arnst seconded to approve the Minutes with the following changes:
.Page 5, Paragraph 2, Line 2— Remove 2 nd apostrophe from the word "today's'."
Page 10, Paragraph 4, Line 4 — Change "meting" to "meeting." Motion passed 510.
B. Park Commission / Park Foundation Joint Meeting Minutes of
September 28, 1999
Arnst moved, Puzak seconded to approve the Minutes as presented. Motion passed
5/0.
3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
Mayor Woody Love reported that he attended a meeting called by the Excelsior Area
Chamber of Commerce for the purpose of discussing the common needs of the area Cities.
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Park Commission
October 12, 1999 —Page 2
The meeting was also attended by Mayors and Administrators of Excelsior and Tonka Bay,
the Presidents of both Rotaries, School Superintendent, Dan Jett, Representative Barb
Sykora, and others. 40
The group talked about youth and the need for ideas and projects to unite the communities.
The skate park idea was brought up and enthusiastically received. Carl Zinn, President of
the Noon Rotary was positive about their ability to raise funds. The Chamber Director and
President were also enthusiastic about helping with the project. Mayor Love asked how to
approach the next step and involve these groups.
Administrator Hurm concurred that people were very positive toward a skate park as a
good joint - community project. He encouraged members of the Park Commission to take a
look at the skate park in the City of Chanhassen because it is comparable to what we are
looking at. He talked with their Park Director who said the cost was around $15,000.
Hurm also noticed on two visits that the skate park is well -used. He suggested that if the
other Cities each donated a dollar per head (as suggested in the letter recently sent out), it
would be a great start. The other steps are to settle on a location and design. Keeping the
kids enthused is also important.
Commissioner Puzak said this is a great report and is excited to get a group together to
look at next steps. The Youth Coalition has found some resources to possibly help with
design. Mayor Love said that Shorewood has made a commitment and Excelsior has
indicated they will step up. All contributors are contingent upon everyone else pitching in.
Mayor Love said he mentioned the possible site of the WPA Park area and it seemed
generally accepted as good location. The proximity to Excelsior was considered favorable.
Co -chair Dallman asked if a public hearing and Conditional Use Permit would be needed.
Hurm said there should be a public hearing. Puzak asked Hurm to handle the legal steps
and asked if anyone else wanted to be involved.
Co -chair Arnst felt that Puzak is doing very good job and recommended that Matt Pike and
friends be included in this next phase since they are an asset and will also benefit by this
process. Puzak will contact Matt and work with him on a presentation as a communication
tool to address potential supporters. Themig offered to provide photos. Council member
Zerby will also help with visuals. Arnst offered to provide transportation for Matt, if
needed.
Co -chair Dallman asked if the City has title to that property. City Engineer Brown said the
property has been committed to Shorewood and forwarded to the attorney for recording.
He does not know if it is yet recorded and will reinitiate the title work to be done. He
doesn't see it being a problem, but would like to look at the title to make sure there are no
deed restrictions.
Dallman asked further about the process of declaring the land for this use and if the
Commission is then agreeing this is the best place for a skate park rather than Manitou
Park or others. Puzak recalled that the Commission did make a request at some time to 0
Park Commission
October 12, 1999 —Page 3
classify it as parkland. The possibility of a motion was considered. Brown suggested that
it might be best if staff first obtains title and prepares a report to this Commission and then
it would be more appropriate to make a recommendation. Themig added that there also
should be discussion with the other communities before deciding, since it is a joint effort.
Puzak recommended they go through step one (obtain clear title) and then write a letter to
the other communities and organizations and offer this location. Arnst asked if the
equipment is freestanding and could be moved if they find the location is not working.
Puzak said the rails would be sunk and more permanent than the ramps. He added that
step two is to then go to our own City Council with a recommendation and finally have a
public hearing.
Mayor Love expressed his thanks to the Commissioners for their excellent work, their
innovations, the neighborhood walks and for looking at revenue streams as requested by
Council.
Co -chair Dallman asked the Mayor to address Council's decision about snowmobiles from
their October 11 meeting. Love explained that the decision was made by simple majority
(three in favor, one abstaining and one opposed) to not apply for snowmobile use on. the
LRT trail. Many issues will need to be addressed, such as how snowmobiles will travel
through Shorewood to get to Lake Minnetonka and ways to assure safety in using the
streets. He added that the Council approved the use of horses on the LRT because
Hennepin County has now granted that authority. The Council is considering the Park
Commission as the group to help with these decisions.
Hurm commented that there are also issues to identify at the staff level and bring to
Council, such as what to do with the trail in terms of winter maintenance. Do they plow
down to the gravel to accommodate walkers? How do we include space for cross - country
skiing or snowshoeing? There is also the possibility of applying for grant -in -aid funding
for grooming equipment. Mayor Love said that he believes the Council wants to see
recreational facilities used by as many as possible and therefore applied for multiple uses.
Commissioner Themig asked why winter use of the trail is left to the City to decide. Hurm
gave some background and explained that the County has issued permits for winter use
now for about 4 years. The County does not want the responsibility or expense to maintain
or monitor the trail during those months and offers the option to each City to pick that up,
rather than to shut the trail down for the winter. Brown said it boils down to maintenance
and liability.
Hurm said the sooner Council has input the better so we can inform people of the policy.
The City would like to provide a brief report in the October issue of the Shore Report to be
followed by more details in the November issue. Love said we need to find ways to
inform and get the word out in a positive and visible manner. Also there will be horse
issues for the Commission to examine. The City will be talking to Police Chief Litsey and
perhaps the snowmobile club to help get the word out. We don't want to have well-
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Park Commission
October 12, 1999 —Page 4
meaning citizens become violators. Puzak said the 1999 / 2000 snowmobile maps have
been printed so there will be problems. 0
Themig asked about the work of the former task force in recommending trail use for
snowmobiles. Mayo Love explained his position in the latest vote, saying he feels this has
been a long history and there have been valiant attempts to make it work. But that was the
decision of the Council in simple majority last night.
Hurm asked for a timeframe for the Commission to consider this issue. Dallman
recommended a second meeting in October rather than adding it to this agenda. The
Commission agreed to meet on October 26 to discuss the LRT winter use issues. Hurm
encouraged the Commission to think of the LRT as a linear park with use as a key element.
Staff can look at signage, etc.
4. REPORTS
A. Report on Trails and Multi— Purpose Building
Residents were present to speak from the floor on item 4B. Report on Trails and Multi —
Purpose Building will follow 4B.
B. Council Consideration of Recommended Policy on Trails (Vine Hill
Road)
Hurm explained that the Park Commission recommendation went to City Council and they
took it under advisement but did not take action. There were residents present who
indicated their concern for concrete but didn't want to pay for concrete. The issue is still
open, plus the need to determine if asphalt would be 8 ft. or 6 ft. in width.
City Engineer Brown distributed a copy of his memo to City Council, which included; cost
estimates for the various trail segments, factors which influence pricing, the life span costs
of materials, uses and durability between materials, etc. Brown went on to explain the
differences in how concrete and asphalt settle and eventually fail, mainly due to frost
conditions. Some do not agree with the analysis of life span, however Brown offered an
estimated life span of 20 years whether you use asphalt or concrete. Where asphalt needs
resurfacing every 5 or so years, concrete cracks and results in trip hazards and requires
immediate repair.
Brown referred to a chart on page 2, which shows different costs. He explained that the
state aid standard is 8 feet, but if local funds are used, the City is not bound by state
standards. Outside funding influences the trend toward 8 feet, coupled with complaints
about narrow trails for pedestrians being passed by bicycles, etc. In talking with
contractors, Brown has been assured there are paver machines that will pave a 6 -foot trail.
ADA standards require a 5 -foot width, however, 6 feet is the bare bones minimum for
asphalt.
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Park Commission
October 12, 1999 —Page 5
Brown reiterated that there are so many factors that influence costs of construction. These
estimates are calculated for generic conditions, but are offered as a resource in looking at
trail costs.
Amst asked how many linear feet are in front of the six homes requesting concrete. Brown
estimated about 500 to 700 feet. Amst asked about the maintenance or cracking on the
Waterford sidewalk. Brown said they are inspected and repairs have been made as needed.
Zerby estimated the cost difference between 8 foot asphalt and 5 foot concrete to be about
$1,000 per home.
Resident Brett Helgeson, 5640 Vine Hill Road, spoke from the floor, stating that he and his
neighbors are opposed to having an 8 -foot wide asphalt trail in front of their homes. They
do not feel they should have to pay the difference in cost to have concrete. Dallman noted
that some other residents have even stated that if the surface is not concrete, they do not
want a trail at all.
Mr. Helgeson explained the concerns as stated in the neighborhood petition; 1) They have
noticed that other asphalt trails and driveways have degraded significantly, yet the
sidewalk is in very good shape. 2) This is the only part of the Vine Hill Trail that runs
across the center of properties. They would like a trail there, but don't want to sacrifice
their whole front yard. (A 5 -foot width is better.) They are looking at it as a sidewalk, not
a trail. There is bike path on the road for bikers and walkers could use the sidewalk. 3) It
would diminish property values and the look of the neighborhood over time if bituminous.
Themig asked about front yard setbacks. Mr. Helgeson said the shallowest lot is 123 feet
deep so an 8 -foot trail would take up much of the front yard area. This is another reason
the neighbors feel this should be considered differently from the trail policy of 8 feet.
Resident Corrine Kubal, 5620 Vine Hill Road, stated the distance would be only about 23
feet from the front door to the trail if 8 foot bituminous were used. She stated that she
wants this trail and believes that a 5 -foot concrete walk is better esthetically for the
neighborhood and for the City of Shorewood. For example, the small asphalt path up the
road looks terrible and this is not what they want for themselves or for the City. Puzak
pointed out that it is a segment that does not run in front of homes. Brown said it has not
been maintained at all.
Themig said there was an impression of some willingness of neighbors to fund part of the
cost of an upgrade but now they seem to be saying concrete or nothing. He also brought
up the point that bikes would not necessarily stay on the road as Mr. Helgeson stated. The
trail is to be for shared use.
When asked if neighbors would be willing to pay for the upgrade to concrete, Mr.
Helgeson said it is hard to answer without knowing specific amounts. Puzak suggested an
estimated $20 or $30 per month for 5 years. Mr. Helgeson said he couldn't speak for all of
his neighbors. Some have said they will move. The neighbors are not all uniform in that.
They do feel the precedent was set with Waterford.
Park Commission
October 12, 1999 –Page 6
Puzak said the Commission would probably agree that 5 -foot concrete is as acceptable to
our purpose as 8 -foot bituminous. This is a new experience for the Commission and it is
struggling to pull off any trails within the budget. They ask residents to work with them.
The Commission has said they would design around individual needs. He encouraged
residents to negotiate 5ft concrete or 6ft bituminous and make the investment to upgrade.
He acknowledged that they make a good point of proportions for a narrower trail. The
policy is to design around issues such as this.
Ms. Kubal pointed out that their neighborhood is not a rural setting. Vine Hill is a busy
road and some people will drive on the trail, especially if it is a bituminous surface. The
safety concern will be even greater when her son (and others) will have to walk along Vine
Hill to catch the school bus next year.
Commissioner Berndt asked if all 6 houses want concrete. Mr. Helgeson said they agree
on concrete and a width of 5 or 6 feet. Three neighbors refuse to pay more for it.
Council member Zerby said his personal opinion is that the community varies quite a bit in
look. The Waterford standard may have set some expectations. He thinks the process is to
find out what the community wants and find a way to deliver it. There can be an exception
made without setting a precedent.
Brown explained that the sidewalk along Old Market Road was put in after the Waterford
Addition and constructed with state aid funds. With Vine Hill's topography it would be
very difficult to comply with state aid standards. Those are the underlying reasons.
Ms. Kubal asked if the City of Minnetonka could be of help since it would benefit both
Cities. Brown said he has discussed reconstruction of Vine Hill Road to meet state aid
standards with their engineer. Neither city has put it in their 5 -year C.I.P. Both agree that
something will have to be done in the next 10 years.
Commissioner Themig suggested the idea to downsize the width of the entire segment
(both Vine Hill and Covington), from 8 feet to 6 feet, and in this section, upgrade to
concrete with the savings. He does not see a 6 -foot width jeopardizing this type of use.
Ms. Kubal agreed. Mr. Helgeson added that it would also save money on the retaining
walls, etc. Hurm said he thought other residents would be pleased with a 6 -foot width.
Puzk moved that because the Park Commission has committed to work with
neighbors on design issues and because neighbors have asked us to work with them in
getting a concrete surface in front of their homes, we recommend to the City Council
on the entire Covington / Vine Hill trail segment that we move from our previously
stated standard of 8 feet to 6 feet and utilize the savings to meet their request for
concrete in front of the 6 contiguous homes — 5620 Vine Hill Road to 5670 Vine Hill
Road. Arnst seconded.
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Park Commission
October 12, 1999 –Page 7
Brown asked for clarification of the financial aspect of this proposal, reiterating that the
cost estimates they used are very rough estimates with many factors involved. Puzak
calculated a comparison. Brown asked if both alternatives should be bid. It was agreed
that 8 feet is not even an option and to only seek bids for 6 feet. It can be assumed there is
a savings on the bituminous portion of the trail in reducing the width by 2 feet. Arnst said
she is satisfied with the concept based on the estimates already provided.
The motion passed 510.
Brown thanked Mr. Helgeson and Ms. Kubal for their participation. Staff will gather
information and a draft letter to the neighbors. The Commission has also committed to
meet with neighbors once they have a final plan.
Puzak stated we are learning as we go and the process has worked. Themig added that we
need to look at trails segment by segment. Dallman pointed out that Council has not
adopted a standard for 8 feet. Hurm reminded them that, if funded by MSA, a trail would
have to go to 8 feet. Dallman asked if they should leave the recommendation to Council as
it is for an 8 foot standard. All said yes.
A. Report on Trails and Multi– Purpose Building
Brown reported that he prepared a proposal for design services and it was approved by
City Council. Design is underway. Co -chair Dallman reported that, at their last meeting,
members of the American Legion Post #259 authorized $2,500 donation toward the multi-
purpose building.
C. Howard's Point, Edgewood and Grant Lorenz Walk of October 2, 1999
Puzak reported it was a good walk and was well attended. Early tension diffused well and
at the end, it was a happy group. Amst said she reported to City Council at their meeting
and also typed a memo to Council, Park Commission and Larry Brown.
Council member Zerby said it should be stated that there was opposition. Arnst added that
there was also wrong information being passed along by a resident.
5. DISCUSS PARK FUNDING OPTIONS
• User Fees — Themig said the logical next step is work on user fees with the sports
organizations. It's up to the Park Commission to draw up a proposal and finalize the work
that was started a year ago and then meet with those groups with our proposal.
The Commission took a 5- minute break (9:25)
Themig recommended that a sub - committee finish a draft of the user fee policy using all of
the data that staff has provided and present it at the November meeting of the Park
Commission. The data would include costs of providing facilities and definition of facility
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Park Commission
October 12, 1999 –Page 8
iff
needs of the sports associations. It is no longer considered a donation, but a fee for
providing this service. It must be based on facts and data.
There was discussion about the principle behind the policy and a fair approach. It was
agreed to try and resolve this by the end of the year. Themig said the biggest question is
the philosophy of the City covering basic services. He will put a draft policy together
based on the known data. Hurm offered to help.
• Concession Sales & Rental — Dallman asked if the new concession stand would be
open for sales for the 2000 season. Brown said it would likely be in late summer. Puzak
said we have a responsibility to develop a business plan. Arnst suggested a sub - committee.
Puzak said the baseball board members would like to take it on. Themig said it should be
open to all sports. Puzak offered that the City draft a letter to all of the organizations to
submit a proposal. Dallman added to include the seniors and private enterprise. Puzak
suggested they find information from past experience with the temporary trailer and go
over the data at the next meeting. Themig offered to get a copy of a Request for Proposal
form to look at as an example.
• Parking Fees —Left on the back burner.
• Tower (PCS) Revenue — Zerby said the Council has discussed this a bit. They feel it
is kind of dangerous to earmark all fees because it makes everything its own little profit
center. Puzak added that the answer was to let the income go to the General Fund and
move money to the park CIP. Hurm stated that if a PCS tower is installed on park
property, then it's legitimate to allow those funds to go to parks.
There was discussion about the best approach getting a tower in park property. There was
consensus to not solicit for one, but to be receptive if a request comes along
• Transfer Fees —It was agreed that this is out of the Park Commission's hands.
• Park Dedication Fees — Already established.
• Grants —This will be kept on the table as issues come up.
• Private Donations — Themig suggested they look to the Park Foundation for
leadership on this. Zerby recommended they change the title to "Private Donations and
Bequests."
• Corporate Sponsorship and Advertising — Arnst said this could also include selling
of bricks.
• General City Funds —No input.
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Park Commission
October 12, 1999 –Page 9
• Liquor Store Profits —There was discussion about the history of liquor store profits —
how much and how they are used. Dallman suggested that the Park Commission ask City
Council that anything above the projected profits come to parks. Themig recommended
they consider this a future option. It has not been demonstrated that there is a potential for
profit. Puzak said that the Park Commission did ask the Council to help us and we
committed to help them find money and not ask to take money. It would be okay to ask
for anything above their expectations of liquor profits. Themig suggested they keep it on
the list, but not as a priority at this time.
• Allow Liquor Permits for Events — Themig supported keeping the current prohibition
of liquor in parks. Puzak concurred. Arnst said to make this item a lower priority for now.
Dallman suggested it might be okay for adult softball, but to table the idea for now.
• Vending Machines —The question of vandalism was considered. Location is one
answer to minimize the problem. Themig said they can be protected by a cage and
attached to a structure. Ideas considered were; the warming houses at Manor and Badger
Park, Freeman, along the LRT, and outside of City Hall. Commissioner Berndt offered her
property along the LRT as an option. Hurm said it would require permission from
Hennepin Parks. There would also be a Conditional Use Permit and insurance.
Brown offered that staff research vending machine companies. He said that Badger
warming house is heated all the time and Manor might stay warm enough but space may
be an issue there. Staff will look at it.
• Park Event and Shelter Rentals —Hurm suggested they might want to look at fees
over the winter. Arnst added that they had talked about marketing to businesses for
company picnics also. It was agreed to keep the idea on the list.
• Youth Programming —There was discussion about the resources needed to operate
youth programming. It was agreed that it is largely being provided by Community
Education and Services at this time. Plus the City is not at the level yet to support a part-
time employee for the leadership.
6. DISCUSSION ON THE CONCESSION BUILDING AND OPERATION OF
THE MULTI- PURPOSE BUILDING AT FREEMAN PARK
Tabled.
7. REVIEW OF TO DO LIST
• Park Booklet —Still on list.
• Manor Park Sign —Arnst reported that Commissioner Bensman is still interested.
• Policy for security at warming houses —Staff is working on who is available to be
warming house supervisor as one step toward this goal.
• First successful trail segment —In process (see above).
• • Multi - purpose building —In process (see above).
Park Commission
October 12, 1999 –Page 10
• Cathcart "No parking" sign —Still on list — probably hold until spring.
• Freeman map for trail —To be winter project.
• Closure of road along field #2 —MnDOT has made a verbal commitment that $50,000
toward the parking area should not be a problem. Staff is proceeding with the formal
application process.
• Crescent Beach sign —The City of Tonka Bay is not interested. Erase from list.
• Manor and Badger pond aerator —Still on list. Arnst will do research. Brown
reported that Commissioner Themig provided information to him. It will be a winter
project.
• Wayside Rest / Seal the well —Brown will check to see if it's the State's
responsibility (depends on title). Puzak suggested the well be restored to functionality,
if possible. Brown will check.
• Wayside Rest / Look at property for skate park —In process (see above).
• Wayside Rest / Walkway —Still on list.
• Silverwood / Fill holes —Still on list.
• Stripes on Christmas Lake access lot — Hopefully stripers will be out in a few weeks.
• Smithtown West LRT —Still on list.
• St. Alban's Bay Road Trail —Not an option.
• Edgewood / Noble —Done.
• Yellowstone —Will be walked next year.
• Mill Street —Brown will check further and report back. Hennepin County may be
looking at upgrading Mill Street.
• Grant Lorenz —Done.
• Howard's Point Road —Done.
• Smithtown east of LRT —Not this year.
• Galpin Lake Road— Watching for new developments. Brown will keep the
Commission apprised.
8. OLD BUSINESS
• Recycling of Plastics at Freeman Park — Commissioner Berndt thanked the
Commission for allowing her to reintroduce this issue and reviewed the past conclusions.
She asked that the City reconsider a more aggressive approach to recycling of the plastic
containers deposited in the summer months at Freeman. In her own research she found
that while plastics enhance the burning process when incinerated with trash, there are
increased emissions. Berndt suggested alternatives for Shorewood to find ways to
constructively deal with the excess plastics, such as a "plastics drive" or promoting the use
of materials made from recycled plastics (i.e.composting bins). She offered to investigate
further and keep the Commission informed. Themig agreed that there is a responsibility to
do something, even if there is cost.
• Rights -of -Way Issues —Zerby reported that the City Council has reviewed
information from legal counsel and has recommended to further study rights -of -way along
Smithtown Road. The final report will include a map.
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Park Commission
October 12, 1999 –Page 11
• Park Foundation Representative —Co -chair Dallman reported that the Park
• Foundation will meet on October 14 and there is still not a liaison from the Park
Commission. Arnst asked that appointment be postponed until the Commission is fully
appointed in February 2000.
• Miscellaneous— Themig offered to attend a session on the legal aspects of skate parks
at the MRP conference and bring back information to the Commission. Offer accepted.
Arnst reported that the magic square is done and being used. Brown indicated he was
somewhat disappointed in the markings, but it will be improved when they re -coat the
surface in a few years. Arnst said it is working out well.
9. NEW BUSINESS
The Park Commission meeting will meet on October 26 to discuss LRT winter use issues.
The November 9 meeting will cover; user fee proposals, a report on Request for Proposals
for the multi -use building, a report on the vending machine idea, and a report on recycling.
10. ADJOURNMENT
Puzak moved, Arnst seconded to adjourn the meeting. Motion passed 510.
• The meeting adjourned at 10:36 p.m.
Respectfully Submitted,
Connie Bastyr
Recording Secretary
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SHOREWOOD PARK FOUNDATION MEETING
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 14,1999 SHOREWOOD CITY HALL
7:30 P.M. 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Chair Ken Dallman called the meeting to order at 7:45 p.m.
itAF
1. ROLL CALL
Present: Chair Ken Dallman (Park Commission); Jim Hurm (City Administrator); Gordy
Lindstrom (At Large); Bill Keeler (At Large); Don Kelly (Rotary); Bob Noren
(Seniors).
Absent: David Anderson (Little League); Jim Latterner (Tonka Men's Club); Tad Shaw
(Minnetonka Community Education); Scott Hanson (South Shore Softball); Don
Aslesen (Youth Hockey); Scott Zerby (City Councilmember); Don Kronberg
(American Legion); Brian Lieffers (Tonka United Soccer); Jim Wilson (Tonka
Football).
. 2. REVIEW AGENDA
The agenda was accepted as distributed.
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. The Park Foundation Meeting of March 25, 1999 were accepted at presented.
B. The Park Commission and Park Foundation Joint Meeting of September 28, 1999.
The minutes were corrected as follows: page 6, paragraph 2, last line, the phrase:
"wouldn't allow beverages in the park" should be "wouldn't allow beverage sales in
the park."
4. TREASURER'S REPORT
There was no report.
5. FOLLOW -UP DISCUSSION ON JOINT MEETING WITH THE PARK
COMMISSION
Bill Keeler and Gordy Lindstrom both indicated that they felt that the meeting with the Park
Commission was very helpful. The Commission members have a great interest in and a good
grasp of what the Park Foundation should be doing.
PARK FOUNDATION MINUTES
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 14,1999
PAGE 2
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6. FUND RAISING FOR MULTI- PURPOSE BUILDING AT FREEMAN PARK
AND SKATE PARK
There was a brainstorming session on how to approach a fundraising effort. It was determined
rather than having separate fundraising efforts for each project that a brochure should be
developed briefly describing the Park Foundation and its purpose and listing various park
improvement projects that could be donated to. Separate brochures could be developed for the
individual projects.
Following are notes from the brainstorming session. The following items could be listed as
potential items that could be donated to:
1.Park Improvements
• Multi- Purpose building at Freeman Park
• Skate Park
2.Youth Programs
• Financial aid to assist youth with fees
• Financial aid to provide equipment to disadvantaged area youth
3.Senior Programs
• Activities in the parks
• Financial /transportation assistance for recreational activities
4. Land
• Work with the Land Conservation Environment Committee on land donation and land
dedications.The Foundation could be a vehicle to accept land donations and conservation
easements.
These items should be listed as a potential and not commitment to do specific projects. The
brochure should also include a section on estate planning and giving for park improvements.
There should be a special perpetual endowment fund for possible future projects. Such as, an
area pool and replacement of recreational facility and equipment as they age.
An introduction to the brochure should define the foundation clearly as a non - profit, non - political
organization separate from any city. The underlying purpose of the effort is to coordinate the
private sector working with the city to have improved parks and recreational opportunities in
Shorewood parks. One theme for the brochure might be "to give where your heart is not just
where your business is." Any brochure would need to be run by the Park Commission and City 10
PARK FOUNDATION MINUTES
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 14,1999
PAGE 3
•
Council. City staff will work with Bill Keeler on a first draft of the brochure as well as two
separate brochures -one on the skate board project and one on the Freeman Park multi - purpose
building project.
Don Kelly reported that he had a discussion with a professional fundraiser in Eden Prairie. He
felt that the skate park project was too small to work with a professional fundraiser. The
organization needs a history of successful projects. A fundraiser fee based rather than percentage
based. The foundation needs a case statement or business plan. The approach for fundraising
needs to be tested before it is undertaken. The foundation, whether or not there is a professional
fundraiser, needs to provide the volunteers. Make the fundraising task oriented such as ask
someone to visit 20 people, don't try to put them on a committee. Ken Dallman suggested that
we contact the foundation in Roseville for its central park. Gordy Lindstrom volunteered to
make a contact.
7. REVIEW ORGANIZATION BY -LAWS
It was suggested that at some point the Foundation might want to expand its membership by four
additional members at large who might be specifically interested in assisting in fundraising
efforts. It was also noted that at some point in the future the foundation might wish to expand to
• become a south Lake Minnetonka area organization.
8. REPORT FROM DIRECTORS) - ACTIVITIES OF THE SPORTS
ORGANIZATION
There were no reports.
9. NEXT MEETING DATES (NOVEMBER 11, 1999 AND DECEMBER 9,1999)
The next meetings were set for 7:30 p.m. Thursday, November 11 and Thursday, December 9.
10. ADJOURN
There being no further business, Gordy Lindstrom moved to adjourn, seconded by Don Kelly.
Motion passed unanimously at 8:55 p.m.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
James C. Hurm,
Shorewood City Administrator
•
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• • •
Park Commission Meeting Follow -up
Checklist
Park Commission Muting of 10 /12 /9Q
1999 "To 01.
List
Action taken
Mtg
Done
Issues
te
Park booklet - Mark Themig volunteered to work on this.
First draft will be prepared by 10 -1 -99
6/22/99
Consider a sign at Manor Park stating that this is where the first City Hall
Pat Arnst will check with Mary Bensman
6/22/99
was located.
on her interest in following up on project.
Sept. mtg.
Pat talked with Mary & she is
interested in working on project (10-
12 -99)
Policy for next season regarding security at warming houses.
Refer to LB- Hiring of supervisor &
going over steps with supervisor should
help with security (10- 12 -99).
First successful trail segment completed
1999 To Do List
Multi- purpose building construction
LB will work on different plans and bring
1999 To Do List
• Explore partnership with Senior Center /youth for operating
back to Park Commission (5- 25 -99). LB
concession stands
will sch. on planning comm. mtg. for a
conditional use permit and public hearing
• Consider night time lighting policy*
(6 -22 -99 mtg). City Council mtg.
• Consider liquor policies*
8/23/99. Council passed proposal for
professional services from WSB (10-12 -
*These issues, among others yet to be identified, need to be considered as
99)
a pro - active measure. They may arise as a result of the completion of a
nnilti- purpose, multi - season facility that will invite more diverse use than
the picnic shelter alone.
Cathcart Park — Sign saying "No Parking on Grass"
LB will look into
Galpin Lake Rd Trail
Staff will check on issues: county /street
Sept /Oct
road; Chanhassen -loop from Murray to
Bracketts; Excelsior grant application not
successful - LB check into, heard
Excelsior may be doing something on
south side of 7 (10- 12 -99).
Freeman Park — Map for trail
5 -25 -99 Park Tour - Winter Project (10-
12 -99)
Yat?e "L
Wayside Rest Area - Improve the barrier along Highway 7 /parking area 6 -8 -99 Park Tour - Referred to LB
Smithtown /E of LRT
Not this year (1999)
r
Park Commission Meeting of 10/12/99
1999 4 7o Do"
List
Action taken
'Mtg.
Done
Issues
Date
Wayside Rest Area — Check on the walkway /trail from stop light to across
6 -8 -99 Park Tour — LB will look into the
the ditch
possibility
Silverwood Park — Fill in the holes around the blocks by the swing set area
6 -8 -99 Park Tour
Check on painting stripes at Christmas Lake access parking lot
6 -8 -99 Park Tour - Stripes will be
painted within next 3 wks (10- 12 -99).
Prepare project schedule and look at Smithtown segment and
LB will prepare a project schedule. LB is
CovingtonNine Hill trails (6 -8 -99 meeting)
ordering feasibility studies and ask to
authorize a survey at the July 26 City
Council meeting.
Smithtown West LRT — Look at keeping the trail on the south side of
LB will take another look at keeping trail
Smithtown west of the school and have a crossing at the school. Also, look
on south side. He will also look into
into extending the trail to the LRT for cost and obstacles, etc. (6 -8 -99 mtg)
extending the trail.
Yellowstone
Pending
2000
Manor Park and Badger Park — Aerator for pond. 6 -22 -99 mtg. Pat Arnst
6 -8 -99 Park Tour - Mark gave LB info
will do further research regarding clean up of ponds.
regarding aerators. This is a winter
project (10- 12 -99).
Wayside Rest Area — Seal the well
6 -8 -99 Park Tour - LB check into
putting well back into operation (10-
12 -99).
Mill St.
Check on issues — County Rd, connection
Sept/Oct
with LRT- 1,13 checking with County,
heard they may be upgrading Mill St.
(10- 12 -99).
Wayside Rest Area — Look at property as a possible skate park
6 -8 -99 Park Tour
Wayside Rest Area - Improve the barrier along Highway 7 /parking area 6 -8 -99 Park Tour - Referred to LB
Smithtown /E of LRT
Not this year (1999)
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FOLLOW -UP CHECKLIST
COMPLETED ITEMS
Policies for dealing with sports organizations
Done
Magic Square at Cathcart Park
Done
Baseball Fields at Freeman Park - Poles/Nets
installed for foul balls
Done
2000 CIP
Done
Explore Trail Collaboration with Greenwood and
Excelsior
Done
Freeman Park - Proposed batting cage, signs and
relocation of storage shed
Done
Freeman Park - Closure of road along field #2
10/12/99
Enchanted Island
Done
St. Albans Bay Rd
Done
Joint Meeting with Park Foundation
9/28/99
Crescent Beach - Sin
10/12/99
Ed ewood/Noble Walk
Done
Grant Lorenz Walk
Done
Howards Point Rd Walk
Done
40
CITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
• PARK COMMISSION MEETING COUNCIL CHAMBERS
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 9,1999 7:30 P.M.
AGENDA
EMIL
1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
FT
A. Roll Call
8. NEW BUSINESS
9. ADJOURNMENT
Council Liaison:
November - Dallman
December - Puzak
U
P
ruzax
Bensman
Dallman
Arnst
Themig
Berndt _
B. Review Agenda
2.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Park Commission Meeting Minutes of October 26, 1999 (Att.42A Draft
Minutes)
3.
MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
4.
REPORTS
A. Report on Vending Machine Idea
B. Report on Recycling
C. Report on Request for Proposals for Concession Sales
in the Multi - Purpose
Building
5.
REVIEW USER FEE PROPOSALS (Mark Themig)
6.
REVIEW OF TO DO LIST (Att. - #6)
7.
OLD BUSINESS
8. NEW BUSINESS
9. ADJOURNMENT
Council Liaison:
November - Dallman
December - Puzak
U
P
r
Skatepark Design Committee Meeting
Thursday, November 4, 1999
O's - SKATEPARK
•
♦ Family Oriented
♦ Beginner/Intermediate/Expert
♦ Area for rollerblading
♦ Remember the slope - boarding parallel to Highway 7
♦ Don't forget circle turnaround
♦ Remember Community/Neighbors
♦ Bathrooms /Garbage
♦ Signage
♦ Bikes ? - Future bike track?
♦ Pump ?/Drinking well
♦ Benches/Picnic tables/Bike rack(s)
♦ Lights ?
♦ Parking 30+ feet additional
♦ Noise barriers/Barricades
♦ Picnic area in/under trees help neighbors and participants of park
♦ Budget - $25,000 - $30,000
♦ 3 feet under
♦ Winter issues - Torn down/Kept up during winter
♦ Compliment each other's parks Chanhassen/Shorewood
Asphalt - 4 ft. slant
Dimensions: 82 x 150
30 for parking - 82 x 120 for use
Drop 3 1/2 feet in
120 feet of usable space
STEPS
V)(�Ct att
•
City of Shorewood
Athletic Association Park Use Policy (1/25/99 Draft)
Background Shorewood City park land has been acquired and park facilities
and improvements have been provided over the years by various
sources. The City itself, Athletic Associations to varying degrees,
civic organizations and many volunteers have helped make our
parks what they are today. Once installed, the facilities and
improvements become part of the park and assets of the City.
The athletic associations have provided quality organized sports
activities for the youth and adults of our community.
Purpose Recognizing the increased need for quality athletic facilities, the
Shorewood Park Commission has developed a policy to work more
effectively with athletic associations.
The purpose of this policy is to:
• Establish a basic park facility level.
• Discuss facility improvement funding options.
• Establish a process for requesting facility improvements.
• Establish ongoing funding sources to maintain parks and
facility improvements.
•
Basic Park Through general funds, the City will provide the following basic
Facilities park facilities in all parks:
•Park Property
•Field /Play Space
*Play Equipment
*Rest Room Facilities (including portable units)
•Parking
*Trash Receptacles and Removal
The specialized athletic associations are responsible for
preparation of the fields (i.e. striping, placing and removing nets).
Facility Athletic facilities or special use facilities are considered above and
Improvements beyond basic park facilities. As the need for quality athletic facilities
is increasing, funding for facility improvements is decreasing in
Shorewood. Therefore, it is in the best interests of both the athletic
associations and the City to work cooperatively in addressing
facility improvements.
When an association determines a need for a facility
• improvement, the association must present the request to the City
for consideration. Approval and implementation of the request is
greatly enhanced as the proportion of funding provided by non- •
City sources increases. A meritorious proposal with full outside
funding is likely to be implemented quickly, while the same
project requesting full or partial City funding must be considered
as part of the City's five -year Capital Improvement Program (CIP).
This consideration will involve evaluation of need verses other
projects waiting funding. If the improvement promotes safety,
the City may actively pursue the improvement.
In order to effectively evaluate projects requesting City funding,
the proposal should be submitted to the Park Commission during
the summer for consideration in the budgeting process.
All proposals* should include the following:
• A thorough description of the improvement.
• Maps or drawings.
• The demonstrated need.
• Estimated Costs.
• Possible funding.
• How the improvement will be completed (volunteers,
contracted work, etc.)
*City staff can assist in providing information (such as maps,
drawings, etc.) for the proposal. •
If an improvement is approved and completed, the improvement
becomes the property of the City of Shorewood. If major repair
or replacement is needed, the association may provide funding or
work with the City in identifying the need and scheduling in the
five -year CIP.
Exclusive Use of Recognizing the community benefits of park land, Shorewood Parks
Improved are available on a "First Come, First Served" basis to the
Park Facilities community. However, athletic associations my request exclusive
use of improved park facilities. Requests for use are to be
submitted in January for consideration by the Park Commission.
Requests for use should include:
• Organization
• Requested facilities
• General days and times the facility(s) will be used
17J
data/parks /Athletic Assoc. Policies 2
Reservation In exchange for exclusive use, athletic associations will contribute
Fee funding to operate these facilities by paying a reservation fee.
• This fee will be dedicated to the park operation fund.
The fee is determined by:
•
C
data/parks /Athletic Assoc. Policies
Cost for Providing Above Base MaintenanrP
Activity
Facilities Used
Cost
Football
Badger
$1,555
Hockey
Badger
$1,835
Cathcart
Represents 1/2 of 21% of total costs for providing ice at
Football
$3
Badger and Cathcart. 21% is determined from 11
$775.50
Hockey
hours /week of reserved ice time from total available of
$1,835
$917.50
51.5 hours /week warming house services. Furthermore,
$3,500
$4,775
dividing this figure represents 1/2 costs directed toward
Little League
$3
the recreational skating area and 1/2 costs toward hockey
$4
Minnetonka Adult. Softball
area.
Tonka United Soccer
Freeman Soccer Fields
$4
Little League
Freeman Fields 1 -3
$8,223
Manor Field
Cathcart Field
Minnetonka Adult Softball
Freeman Fields 4 -6
$12,648
Options for Recovering Costs fnr Prnvirlinn A hnvp R acA MAinhnnnnrn
Activity
Option 1
Option 2 -_
-_ Option 3
Even Fee
Full Fee
Percentage of Cost
50%
Football
$3
$1,555
$775.50
Hockey
$3.500
$1,835
$917.50
Tonka United Soccer
$3,500
$4,775
$2,387.50
Little League
$3
$8,223
$4
Minnetonka Adult. Softball
$3
$12
$6
Total
$17,500
$29,036
$14 r 520.00
Items to consider:
• Billing should occur at time facility is reserved.
• In the event winter conditions do not permit full use of reserved ice, hockey would be refunded for amount not used.
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Nov. 9, 1999
REPORT ON RECYCLING IN SHOREWOOD'S PARKS
* Shorewood's parks b are used vane of le for a variety of activities. The major
Y a variety people P
activity that attracts people to Shorewood's parks in the spring and summer months is
sports. Soccer and Little League generate the largest numbers of people, players and
spectators, into the park. Because of these activities, large quantities of plastic bottles
are being disposed of into the trash cans conveniently located throughout the parks. Un-
fortunately, these large amounts of plastics are ultimately being taken to landfills and or the
incinerator plant. By simply placing recycling receptacles adjacent to the trash cans, Shorewood
can reduce the amount of plastics that are dumped in our landfills weekly/ Plastics do
not decompose and have an enormous negative impact on our environment. By doing our
duty as responsible citizens and responsibly removing plastics from Shorewood's parks,
W are setting a standard in our community for our youth to follow.
E -Z Recycling will deliver 90 gallon drums with closed lids to our parks with a charge c f $20.00 a
drum per month to haul our recyclables away weekly. We can co- mingle plastic, aluminum and
glass in these drums. Chris, at E -Z Recycle said that allowing them to rer ove the alui
would help them with the cost of baling the plastic and labor costs. They are not paid for the
plastic they dispose of, unlike aluminum which is at $.33 a lb. Their costs for delivering the plastic
is roughly $45.00 per ton.
There may be a way to help subsidize this cost by looking at our User Fees and profits from the
concession stand and vending machines. Also, the receptacles would only be necessary in the
ppe�
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months with high traffic volume, April - October. At a cost of $200.009r less, Shorewood could
greatly contribute to a cleaner and friendlier environment _ . `
r
Subj. Hello...
Date: 10/19/99 12:41:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: Debra. Sutler(pco.hennepin.mn.us
"V bemdtl@aol.com
I finally found time to get a response back to you, so let me see if I can
restate what
I said last week! I may not be able to repeat it in its entirety, so if you
have other questions
feel free to email me again.
Keeping plastics out of the waste stream is a good idea. However, it become a
challenge with the proliferation in research and design for new plastic
packaging by manufacturers. Plastic packaging is one growth area of the waste
stream that the State is trying to analyse through some upcoming waste sorts.
There will be a report out next March, which you will probably be able to view
on the web site [www.moea. state. mn.us]. This growth is not welcomed, but the
packing industry challenges other forms of packaging in terms of shipping costs,
safety, hygiene and breakage.
In the metro area, usually the #1 (PETE polyethylene terephalate) and #2 (HDPE
high density polyethylene) are recycled locally. There are plenty of markets
for these two types of plastic; none of it is stockpiled. What is left in the
waste stream, then? Mostly the non - marketable plastics #347 such as styrofoam
dinnerware and other plastic packaging, stretch wrap film, baggies, bread bags,
electronic parts, toys, etc. These don't have any markets, or if markets exist
V only temporary based on manufacturing needs.
To design programs for the collection of these materials would take a lot of
energy and money and probalby not pan out. Since there is no demand for these
materials, the last option is to throw it into the waste stream — your garbage,
This is not necessarily a negative activity, since the garbage in Hennepin
County is sent to one of two waste -to- energy facilities. These facilities turn
the burned garage into electricity or energy, so not all is lost.
This may not be the preferred option for many enaronmentally consciouse
residents, but at least it is used or porcessed into something useful. Some may
question the environmental effects of burning, but our state of the an
facilities capture most of the emissions and we are rated excellent and have
received national aware for our operations.
When seen in this perspective, it gives more food I& thought. Let me know if I
can provide any other information.
Thanks fox your inquiry!
— l--- Heade�
U—MY, OdObv A IND AaWka Qe: PBEIWNM Pape: 4
Check List for Snowmobiling - 1999/2000 Season
• ❑ Make appropriate changes to the City Code (10/25/99).
❑ Communicate and coordinate enforcement with the Police Department and
Prosecutor (Note: fine will be $77).
❑ Decide on how to maintain the trail. Park Commission will discuss on 10/26.
Decisions should be made at 11/9 Council meeting so it can be publicized.
❑ Consider: until December 15 (at least through 2 rideable snows) plow the trail
completely. Thereafter plow only 200 yards at each end. Stay flexible on this.
❑ If the trail is to be partially or fully plowed, we need an understanding as to its
priority. We would recommend the priority be streets, parking lots, rinks and
sidewalks /trails.
❑ Fourteen "No Snowmobiling" signs will be placed along the trail at most street
intersections. 4'x4' signs (with shielded yellow flashers) will be placed at Timber
Lane and at the west end. An orange barrel will be placed at each end.
Instructional signage should be placed near the Victoria House.
to ❑ Nothing will be done to affect the Timber Lane area.
❑ Police Department will use flashing yellow lights when their snowmobile is on the
trail. Snowmobile patrol will be minimized - squads will be used more. The
Department will keep track of enforcement efforts.
❑ Be prepared for an expanded right -of- way/hay bale program.
❑ An information flier on the closing of the trail to snowmobiles and Shorewood
rules will be sent to those with snowmobile licenses within the 55331 area.
❑ An initial press release has been sent out. An article on the trail restriction will go
to newspapers, snowmobile clubs and City Halls for newsletters all around Lake
Minnetonka and as far away as Watertown, Glencoe and Mayer. Additional press
releases will be done as further decisions are made.
❑ The November City newsletter will include information on snowmobiling in
Shorewood.
❑ The Mayor will offer to meet with Southwest Trails and any other local clubs to
discuss the closing of the trail. We will offer to send a mailing to their
membership list.
•
10/22/99
O u
❑ Neighboring cities will be contacted by letter and by phone about the closing of
• the LRT to snowmobiles.
❑ Approach the City of Tonka Bay to allow us to post Manitou Park and its parking
area "No Snowmobiling."
❑ Crescent Beach will be plowed to allow trailer parking. There should be an
understanding that no City vehicles will go onto the lake for plowing purposes.
❑ Work with the DNR to identify and publicize lake access points to the west.
❑ The City will attempt to plow wing snow ridges along heavily traveled streets if
possible.
J
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10/22/99
L - '*.
0 110�
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To: Park Commission
From: Twila Grout, Public Works Secretary
Date: November 9, 1999
Re: Response to Question on Maintenance of LRT Trail
Attached are the responses to the question posed in the last newsletter about maintenance
of the LRT trail
•
1 -�
To: Mayor and City Council
From: James C. Hurm, City Administrator
Date: November 5, 1999
Re:
Options for Trail Maintenance
Option #1
Leave natural
•
Four residents preferred this option
•
No cost to the City
Option #2
Plow half and leave half natural
•
Six residents preferred this option (if they didn't specifically say to groom, it
•
was assumed they want to leave natural).
•
Done this way in Excelsior, Deephaven, Greenwood
Option #3
Plow half and groom half for skiing
•
Four residents preferred this option.
•
Most expensive option
Option #4
Plow the whole trail
•
Two residents preferred this option.
•
Done this way in Hopkins and Minnetonka
r
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Page 1 of 1
Teri Naab
• From:
Linda <lleek @worldnet.att. net>
To:
<cityhall@ci.shorewood.mn.us>
Sent:
Thursday, November 04, 1999 10:09 AM
Subject:
LRT Trail
I would like to see the whole width plowed. If you only plow half, the rest
will just become and ice flow.
Thanks for asking,
Linda Leek
•
•
11/4/99
Page 1 of 1
Pamela Helling
From: Harley Feldman <h.feldman @attglobal.net> •
To: <cityhall @ci.shorewood.mn.us>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 12:54 AM
Subject: Trail position
I support plowing half of the trail to allow both snow and non -snow use.
Harley Feldman
5635 Christmas Lake Point
Shorewood, MN 55331
•
•
11/2/99
Pamela Helling
• From: Bob Grobe <bobgrobe @isd.net>
To: <cityhall @ci.shorewood.mn.us>
Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 9:09 AM
Subject: winter trail options
I would like the LRT trail to be plowed half way to allow for snow and
non -snow use. I think this would allow the broadest variety of activities
on the trail. I would like the announcement to be made that if people want
to use the trail to walk their pets they must clean up after them.
Thank you!
Bob Grobe
Shorewood resident
•
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11/1/99
Page 1 of 1
Pamela Helling
From: Kevin Byrne <kbyrne @pclink.com> •
To: <cityhall @ci.shorewood.mn.us>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 9:28 PM
Subject: LRT Winter Usage
To the Shorewood City Council and all involved in limiting the use of the Shorewood LRT to non- motorized
vehicles year round I say THANK YOU You made the right decision to satisfy the needs of the many as
opposed to the needs of the few. I am not a snowmobile hater but I do believe that the majority of snowmobile
operators today are irresponsible and the high speed capabilities of modem snowmobiles is too tempting to
abuse even for the responsible drivers.
Having said that l am responding to your request for input on how to maintain the trail during the winter. I am
an avid runner, biker, cross country skier and snowshoe runner l do a lot of trail running in both summer and
winter and am glad to finally have the LRT available to me during the winter. I would suggest the following:
1) Hard pack half of the trail and groom the other half for classic cross coutry skiing. The plowed or hard
packed side would be good for snowshoe running, walking and even mountain biking for the adventurous.
Snowshoeing, walking and biking will wreck the cross country paths so they should be kept separate. Also
snowshoeing is becoming more popular especially as a running sport so I believe you will get a lot of use
catering to this crowd. You could also consider ski skating which requires a flat packed surface but it is not
compatible with classic cross country skiing.
2) The dog walking traffic will pick up significantly. Try to raise the awareness of dog owners that wintertime
can add a very unsightly visual aspect to dog droppings and pee and that their dogs should either go on their
own property or that owners be especially diligent and pick up after their pets. Frankly 1 think the unsightliness
of dog waste is just as bad as the noise and smell of snowmobiles. You will probably know what 1 mean by the
end of this winter or if you have ever been on the Lake Minnewashta ski trails during the winter. It is pretty .
gross. Basically / won't go back to Minnewashta despite how pretty the woods are because there is usually so
much dog crap on the trail that you end up skiing over most of it because you can't ski around it Irresposible
dog ownership is an epidemic these days but it gets amplified with the white snow.
3) If you do decide to groom for classic cross country skiing I would recommend frequent reminders in the
newsletter and perhaps a small sign or two on the trail reminding people to be courteous and not walk
themselves or their dogs in the cross country tracks as it will wreck them. Otherwise there is no use in
spending the time and money grooming.
Thanks for asking,
Kevin Byrne
6085 Rampart Court
Shorewood, MN
r�
LJ
11/1/99
Messages Left on the Shoreline through October 31,1999:
•
Leave the trail the way it is. We'll take what nature gives us. Don't maintain it at all.
Thanks. Bye.
Hi, this is Becky Lisben, 380 -9773. I'm just commenting on this new approach for using the
trail. My suggestion is that you not plow the full width of the trail because if you do the
cross country skiers can't use it. My suggestion would be to either not plow it at all or plow
half the trail. That sounds most realistic because then walkers can use it and skiers can use
it, both. Thank you very much. Bye.
I would like to comment on the winter use redefine in Shorewood on the trail. I find it rather
ridiculous that you are thinking about plowing the trail, I'm a runner, but you know what, it's
winter time, let it be what it is supposed to be. Don't maintain it at all. As soon as you took
the snowmobiles off there, then we should not groom it, we shouldn't do anything, we should
not add any tax dollars to it. Thank you. My name is Jeff Tuma, I live at 26345 Oak Leaf
Trail, my phone number is 470 -0448.
Yes, I am a Shorewood resident and I was reading through the flyer that came in the mail
today. On the trail use, I noticed that you had many different ways of maintaining the trail
for the winter. I myself ride my bike to work. I work in Minnetonka. I live a quarter mile
off the trail, so it is really nice for me to ride my bike. If you could do the half/half to the
trail, that would be great for me.
• Good evening. Hi, my name is John Nashau. I am a resident of Shorewood. I am calling to
respond to snowmobile use along the LRT regional trail. I support the ban on snowmobile
use and appreciate the Council doing that relative to our other neighbors: Excelsior,
Greenwood, Minnetonka, Hopkins, etc. However, a broad use of the trail relative to biking,
walking, pet walking as such does create a problem as you recognize. I would like to suggest
that you leave half of the trail be maintained for cross country skiing. Walking on the trail,
walking pets, biking, creates a very difficult time to use it for cross country skiing and I think
that is the best and most maximum use of the trail. Bikers typically are cross country skiers.
Just a comment. Thank you. Bye.
I am responding to the request for ways that the LRT trail should be maintained in the winter.
My preference would be to plow half of the trail to allow both snow and non -snow use.
Thank you.
Hi, I am calling to comment on the redefined use of the Shorewood trail. I am very
disappointed that snowmobiles not be allowed. I think it was one of the unique features of
Shorewood that now has become lost. The City has become a big city like any other large
city, and does not allow the citizens the advantage of the uniqueness of Shorewood and what
it used to contain. I think this is very disappointing and certainly would like to see further
consideration given. Thank you.
•
I would like to comment on your winter use redefine in Shorewood. Evidently the
snowmobilers have lost their privileges to use it. I suggest that you just close the trail from •
December 1 to April 1 and that would take care of your problem of not knowing what to do,
because no matter what you do, you are not going to satisfy everybody.
Hello, this is Joan Whetston, and my phone number is 474 -4698. I would just like to give
my opinion on what to do with the LRT trail. I would like the trail to be groomed for cross
country skiing. No, I do not need a response to this. Thank you.
Yes, I am calling about my input about the article that was in the paper about maintaining the
trail for the winter months. My feeling is that I don't think it should be maintained at all.
You should take the attitude we should take what nature gives us. From what I understand,
since the snowmobiles won't be on the trial, then it is a non - motorized trail, and that should
be what it is, meaning no plows on it either. If people want to walk then they need to walk in
the snow, just like everybody else does. Thank you.
This is Pat McDavitt. I live in Shorewood. My recommendation about the trail is to plow it
because we do have other places where cross country ski trails are groomed. I think it would
get more use if it were plowed for people to walk or ride bikes or walk their dogs, etc. That's
my opinion. Thank you.
November 1:
Hi, my name is Steve Korin. I live at 6135 Cathcart and I have 5.5 acres on what used to be
the snowmobile trail and bike path. I guess my call is concerning the fact that we can't use
snowmobiles on the trail any more and it looks like the City is thinking of plowing or
grooming the trail for skiers or doing something to that affect. I have been to all the
meetings that have taken place regarding the trail and it seems that everybody's big grip is
that motorized vehicles should not be used on the trail. Therefore, I am suggesting no
motorized vehicles be used on that trail for plowing or any other reasons. I don't see how it
is any different to have a plow truck to go down there or a snowmobile. It makes no sense to
me. The people were complaining there were motorized vehicles and they shouldn't be on
the trail. So if snowmobiles aren't allowed on the trail, then neither should plow groomers or
trucks as far as I'm concerned. I would like a response to this if you can. My number is 470-
5995 and again my name is Steve Korin. My address is 6135 Cathcart. Thank you.
November 2:
Hi, I'm calling regarding the trail and my recommendation or vote would be to groom 1 /2 of
the trail for cross country skiing and the other half of the trail allow for walking, because
people are going to walk no matter what, but we hate to see them walking on the trail. So
give half of the trail to walkers and half of the trail to cross country skiers. My number is
474 -4180 and this is Sue Bradley. Thank you.
Hi. I think plowing half of the trail would be a great idea. Thanks.
C7
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Teri Naab
• From: MARTIN R WELLENS <mwellens ®woridnet.att.net>
To: <cityhall @ci.shorewood.mn.us>
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 9:55 AM
Subject: trail
I'll vote 1/2 plowed and 1/2 for xcountry skis, on the trail.
M Wellens
•
•
11/9/99