PC-01-06-15
CITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY, JANUARY 6, 2015 7:00 P.M.
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Chair Geng called the meeting to order at 7:02 P.M.
ROLL CALL
Present: Chair Geng; Commissioners Davis, Labadie, Maddy and Muehlberg; Planning Director
Nielsen; and Council Liaison Sundberg
Absent: None
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Davis moved, Maddy seconded, approving the agenda for January 6, 2015, as presented. Motion
passed 5/0.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
December 2, 2014
Davis moved, Maddy seconded, approving the approving the Planning Commission Meeting
Minutes of December 2, 2014, as presented. Motion passed 5/0.
1. PUBLIC HEARING – CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR FILL IN EXCESS OF 100
CUBIC YARDS
Applicant: Jesse Kath
Location: 25025 Yellowstone Trail
Chair Geng opened the Public Hearing at 7:03 P.M., noting the procedures used in a Public Hearing. He
stated this evening the Planning Commission is going to consider a conditional use permit (C.U.P.) for fill
in excess of 100 cubic yards for Jesse Kath, 25025 Yellowstone Trail. He explained the Commission is
comprised of residents of the City of Shorewood who are serving as volunteers on the Commission. They
are appointed by the City Council. The Commission’s role is to help the City Council in determining
zoning and planning issues. One of the Commission’s responsibilities is to hold public hearings and to
help develop the factual record for an application and to make a non-binding recommendation to the City
Council. The recommendation is advisory only. He noted that if the Planning Commission makes a
recommendation this evening this item will go before the City Council on January 26, 2015.
Director Nielsen explained that Jesse Kath owns the property located at 25025 Yellowstone Trail. The
applicant proposes to bring in fill in excess of 100 cubic yards; about 6000 cubic yards. He is in the
process of obtaining a C.U.P. to do that per the requirements of the Zoning Code. The property is zoned
R-1A/S, Single-Family Residential/Shoreland, and is presently vacant. The lot is buildable but it does
have soil issues.
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In 2014, as the result of neighborhood complaints, the City issued a stop work order for fill and grading
being conducted on the site without the necessary permits. The owner was directed to remove
approximately 1000 cubic yards of material from the site; that has been completed.
Mr. Kath has commissioned an engineering firm to prepare a grading plan. The project involves removal
of approximately 6000 cubic yards of material and replacing it with the same amount of compacted soil
capable of supporting a single-family home. The owner is exploring the possibility of using the excavated
material to create a landscape berm along the Highway 7 side of the property, reducing the amount of
material that must be removed. Staff favors doing that.
He noted that earlier this evening Mr. Kath informed him that they are now proposing to use pilings for
the structure rather than removing all of the bad soil and replacing it with compacted soil. There would
still be a need for more than 100 cubic yards of fill. The grading plan submitted will still be accurate for
the purpose of the C.U.P.
He also noted that his original intent going into the meeting was to continue the public hearing. Because a
way has been found to eliminate the need to remove all of the material they thought had to be removed
and because a berm will not be built, staff is recommending approval of the C.U.P. Mr. Kath is present to
answer any questions.
Mr. Kath explained the soil tests taken indicate they are not suitable for constructing a traditional style
footing house on. He noted his C.U.P. application would cover the worst case scenario should 6000 cubic
yards of material have to be removed and replaced. The revised proposal will require the use of 60
pilings. They will be screwed down 20 – 25 feet until they reach hard earth. They will then be attached to
the house. That will only require a minimal amount of fill to be brought in for backfill purposes and class
5 rock for a driveway for construction purposes. If the C.U.P. is granted the goal is to submit a building
permit application in the next few weeks and hopefully start work before road weight restrictions come
into play. If not, construction will begin in May.
In response to a question from Commissioner Muehlberg, Director Nielsen explained the pilings are like
large screws that will be bored down into the ground until solid ground is reached. Grade beams are then
generally poured around them. That becomes the foundation for the house.
Chair Geng opened the Public Testimony portion of the Public Hearing at 7:15 P.M.
Ann Raymond, who lives next to the subject property, asked if there would be any ramifications of
bringing in fill or pilings to the abutting properties. Director Nielsen stated he did not think so and
explained screwing pilings in is like operating a drill. He noted that staff does assess the condition of the
roadway before the project is started and again after. Any damage caused by the construction vehicles
will have to be repaired by the applicant.
Mr. Kath explained because the lot size is about 1.25 acres and because of setback requirements the house
cannot be constructed closer than 50 feet to the edge of the lot on three sides and 10 feet on the fourth
side. The setbacks will be 50 feet on all four sides and therefore none of the proposed grading will be
done close to the property line. The grading will be done primarily around the house. He noted that best
case scenario is no dirt will be removed from the site.
Commissioner Labadie asked Mr. Kath if the concept of using pilings was discussed with his engineer for
the project. Mr. Kath noted that he has used pilings on projects before. He also noted that it is very
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expensive to haul out 6000 cubic yards of dirt. He stated that pilings will outlive everyone in the room
and there is about 99 percent certainty that the structure will not shift. Therefore, the pilings option makes
more sense. Labadie then asked if Mr. Kath’s engineer has provided an estimate how much fill will have
to be brought on to the site for the piling option. Mr. Kath stated a minimum of 1000 cubic yards.
Commissioner Davis asked Mr. Kath if the new house will be his home or a spec house. Mr. Kath stated
when he bought the property two years ago his intent was for it to be his home but it is now going to be a
spec home.
Mr. Kath displayed a rendering of the house. He stated he anticipates that the sale price of the property
will be around $900,000 after the house is built. The house will have five bedrooms, four baths, and a
four car garage and have about 4,400 square feet of finished space.
Chair Geng closed the Public Testimony portion of the Public Hearing at 7:20 P.M.
Chair Geng asked if the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District (MCWD) has been involved with the
project. Director Nielsen explained that any building permit is reviewed by the MCWD for a water
control permit.
Commissioner Labadie asked if the City Engineer has reviewed this C.U.P. application. Director Nielsen
responded yes and noted the Engineer had not seen anything relative to the berm. In response to another
question, Nielsen stated the Engineer is not aware of the pilings because he just learned about them today.
The pilings option will be subject to the Engineer’s review and approval.
Chair Geng asked if the staff report will have to be amended for the pilings before Council considers this
C.U.P. Director Nielsen stated he will do a follow-up report.
Geng stated he assumes any recommendation by the Planning Commission should be subject to the
approval of the pilings option by the City Engineer.
In response to a comment from Ms. Raymond, Chair Geng noted the Shorewood Zoning Code requires a
C.U.P. for fill in excess of 100 cubic yards for a variety of reasons.
Commissioner Maddy asked if the berm option is no longer being considered. Mr. Kath confirmed that.
Maddy asked if it is fair to assume that about the same amount of fill will be brought it to replace what is
removed.
Maddy moved, Davis seconded, recommending approval of the conditional use permit for fill in
excess of 100 cubic yards and not to exceed 6000 square yards for Jesse Kath, 25025 Yellowstone
Trail, subject to the recommendations of the City Engineer and the recommendations identified in
the staff report dated December 30, 2014.
Chair Geng suggested approval also be contingent on the recommendations of the MCWD.
Without objection from the maker or the seconder, the motion was amended to also include the
recommendation of the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District. Motion passed 5/0.
Chair Geng closed the Public Hearing at 7:27 P.M.
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2. PUBLIC HEARING – CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR BUILDING TRADE
CONTRACTOR
Applicant: SKD Architects, Inc. (on behalf of Cambria, Inc.)
Location: 23425 Smithtown Road (County Road 19)
Chair Geng opened the Public Hearing at 7:27 P.M., noting the process will be the same as for the
previous item. He stated this evening the Planning Commission is going to consider a conditional use
permit (C.U.P.) for building trade contractor, requested by SKD Architects, Inc. (on behalf of the Davis
Family LLC) for the property located at 23425 Smithtown Road.
Director Nielsen explained that the Davis Family LLC owns the property located at 23425 Smithtown
Road. SKD Architects, Inc., representing the LLC, has submitted plans for renovating the existing
building on the property for use as a product showroom and garage for Cambria products. Since this falls
under the classification of “building trade contractor’s shop” in the Shorewood Zoning Code, a C.U.P. is
required.
The property is zoned C-2, Service Commercial and contains 28,370 square feet of area. It is currently
occupied by a vacant building measuring 56 feet x 56 feet containing 3136 square feet of floor area. One
corner of the building is a little too close to the lot line. What is being proposed will not make that any
worse.
As part of the renovation, SKD proposes to relocate the parking lot currently in front of the building to the
rear. It will meet the requirements of the City Code. The size of the building will remain the same and it
will be divided in two. One half will be used to store three passenger vans that are used to take clients
around to look at various properties. The other half will be used as a showroom area for the Cambria
products but it will not be used on a daily basis. The entire building will have decorative stone around it.
It will also be reroofed. No outside storage is proposed.
What is being proposed will result in a reduction in hardcover. It will be reduced from 61.6 percent to
36.5 percent. The parking is adequate for the proposed use. Six outside spaces are proposed. The
applicant strongly believes that many will never be used at one time.
This redesign will be accompanied by a significant amount of landscaping. The submitted landscape plan
exceeds the City’s requirements by quite a bit. The plan includes satisfying the recommendations of the
County Road 19 Corridor Study. One of the main recommendations of that is commercial properties
along County Road 19 would have evergreen trees along the rear of the properties so that over time they
would form a backdrop for the properties and screen the abutting residential properties.
Land use and zoning surrounding the site are as follows:
West: commercial office building; zoned R-C, Residential-Commercial
North: County Road 19, then wetland and storage area for Shorewood Yacht Club, zoned C-2
East: Garden Patch Nursery; zoned C-2
South: large pond, then residential (in Excelsior)
He noted that the applicant’s request complies with the requirements of the Shorewood Zoning Code and
Comprehensive Plan. He also noted that staff views what is being proposed as a drastic improvement to
what is currently on the site and recommends approval.
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Dan Mulrennan noted he is present in place of the architect Steve Kleinman who was not able to attend.
He stated that he thought Director Nielsen described what is being proposed accurately.
Chair Geng stated the landscaping plan includes notes in four spots around the property indicating there
will be three inch dark shredded hardwood mulch in the planting beds. Figures 5 and 6 indicate the mulch
will be two inches deep. He commented that is a very minor discrepancy.
Commissioner Maddy stated he interprets the drainage plan to drain to the east. He asked how the runoff
from the new parking lot will be managed. Director Nielsen explained that during construction erosion
control has to be in place. The landscaping will handle the runoff from the site. There currently is a
drainage and utility easement on the south side of the property and from there the stormwater flows into
the pond on the south.
Commissioner Labadie asked if the driveway and parking area will be paved. Mr. Mulrennan responded
yes.
Seeing no one present to comment on the case, Chair Geng opened and closed the Public Testimony
portion of the Public Hearing at 7:31 P.M.
Chair Geng stated from his vantage point it appears it will be a significant improvement to the site and
that he is impressed with the landscaping plan.
Davis moved, Maddy seconded, recommending approval of the conditional use permit for building
trade contractor for SKD Architects, Inc. (on behalf of the Davis Family LLC) subject to the
recommendations identified in the staff report dated December 29, 2014. Motion passed 5/0.
Chair Geng noted this item will go before the City Council on January 26, 2015.
Chair Geng closed the Public Hearing at 7:33 P.M.
3. SITE PLAN REVIEW – PLANNING / HEATING CONTRACTOR
Applicant: Tharaldson Plumbing and Heating
Location: 5680 County Road 19
Director Nielsen explained Eric Tharaldson, owner of Tharaldson Plumbing and Heating, proposes to
lease the property at 5680 County Road 19 from the American Legion Post next door. He intends to
operate a plumbing and heating business from the existing building on the site.
The site is occupied by an old gas station building that has been vacant for a number of years. It is zoned
C-1, General Commercial and contains 13,414 square feet of area. The existing building measures 28 feet
by 44.5 feet and contains 1246 square feet of floor area. The applicant will remodel the inside of the
building and improve the area outside of the building.
Land uses and zoning surrounding the subject property are as follows.
North: Retail store; zoned C-1
East: County Rd. 19, then commercial strip mall in Tonka Bay; zoned commercial
South: Smithtown Rd., then golf course; zoned R-1A, Single-Family Residential
West: American Legion Club; zoned C-1
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In late 2013 Council approved an interim C.U.P. for this site as a bicycle repair business. The reason for it
being interim was that applicant did not want to make some of the improvements that were required by
the Zoning Code because of the probability that the area would be redeveloped in the next three to five
years as part of the Smithtown Crossing Redevelopment Area. That applicant decided not to move ahead
with his plans for the property. Mr. Tharaldson proposes to use the site plan that was approved for the
previous application. The new applicant has indicated he is willing to make the improvements that are
necessary and therefore will not need a C.U.P.
The current parking lot does not conform to Shorewood zoning standards with regard to the lack of
concrete perimeter curbing. The applicant proposes to add curbing in two areas as shown on the site plan.
The applicant wants to retain the use of both driveways on the property for circulation purposes and is
willing to make one of them entrance only.
With regard to the analysis of the case, Nielsen explained the following.
Plumbing, heating, ventilation and air conditioning businesses, without fabrication or manufacturing, are
allowed as permitted uses in the C-1 zoning district. The proposal includes an overhead door to
accommodate the indoor parking/storage of a company vehicle. The applicant has indicated that there will
be no outdoor storage, which would require a C.U.P. The permit would expressly state that outdoor
storage of any kind is not allowed. The applicant intends to build a cedar board-on-board trash enclosure
on the north side of the building. That must be addressed in the plans.
The applicant has not submitted a sign plan as of yet. The site plan indicates that the pylon sign on the
corner will be removed. The applicant intends to put up at least one wall sign and maybe two on the
building. That will be addressed through an administrative sign permit.
The existing building complies with the C-1 district setback requirements but the current parking lot does
not. He reiterated that the applicant proposes to modify the parking lot and use the driveways as they
currently exist. Concrete perimeter curbing will be installed. Asphalt will be patched in where it had
previously been removed.
The applicant intends to use the landscape plan that was submitted for the interim C.U.P. application last
year. The landscaping at the rear of the building was not required as part of the previous approval. This
applicant has agreed to replace the landscaping in the northeast corner of the site with three six-foot
evergreen trees.
He noted that the parking lot improvements and landscaping will not be done until next spring. Therefore,
the applicant must provide bids for that work and an escrow agreement will based on the bids. The cash or
letter of credit escrow will be for one and one-half times the amount of the bids and it must be submitted
prior to the applicant occupying the building. The parking lot improvements and landscaping must be
completed by June 1, 2015.
He also noted that staff recommends approval of the site plan subject to its recommendations.
Lon Tharaldson, the father of the applicant Erik Tharaldson, noted his son is a plumber in the State of
North Dakota and that he is a plumber in the State of Minnesota. The father is also a master plumber in
the Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul. The father explained that he currently functions out of his two-
bedroom bungalow located in the City of Richfield. He went to North Dakota to help his son out for one
year, but wanted to return to Minnesota. He has worked around the Lake Minnetonka area for 50 years.
His son set him up with the business structure, which is quite expensive for plumbing. His son had
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indicated to him that he is willing to come back to work in Minnesota if his father could find a good place
to work from. He and his son are excited about their new venture. He thanked Director Nielsen for all of
his help.
Chair Geng stated the floor plan exhibit shows that the floor plan is oriented to the north. He thought it is
actually oriented to the west. Mr. Tharaldson concurred. Geng encouraged that orientation be changed
before Council considers this application.
Ruth Tharaldson, the mother of Eric Tharaldson (the applicant), stated that basically there would not be
any storage because plumbers take their vans home at night. She noted that all three of them are from
Minnesota. Her son went to work in North Dakota for a few years and now wants to return to Minnesota
to work.
Chair Geng asked who is responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of the island on the corner of the
property at the Smithtown Road and Country Road 19 intersection. Director Nielsen explained that piece
of land is located in the City of Tonka Bay; it was part of the reconfiguration of that intersection but
Shorewood has been maintaining it and will continue to do so. In response to a comment from Geng,
Nielsen explained that the Tonka Bay City Council had been willing to adjust the municipal boundaries
but the Shorewood City Council did not think it would be worth incurring the survey and legal costs to do
so. Nielsen noted that he personally thinks Shorewood should own it if for no other reason people place a
lot of signage on that corner and Shorewood cannot do anything about that because it does not own the
land.
Lowell Day (Boone), 25 Pleasant Avenue, Tonka Bay, and a representative for the American Legion
located at 24450 Smithtown Road, stated the Legion just wants to try and improve its property. The
Legion needs to make it financially feasible for the Tharaldsons to have their business at that location. He
noted that the Legion recently had a new roof put on the flat roof of the building on that site.
Chair Geng stated there is no lease agreement in place. Therefore, he asked if the current applicant is the
appropriate person. Director Nielsen responded yes and stated the applicant has control of the structure.
Geng noted that what is being proposed would be welcomed because the site has been an eye sore for
quite some time.
Davis moved, Maddy seconded, recommending approval of the site plan for Tharaldson Plumbing
and Heating for the property located at 5680 Country Road 19 subject to staff recommendations.
Motion passed 5/0.
Chair Geng noted that Council will consider this item during its January 26, 2014, meeting.
4. PREAPPLICATION – COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT
Applicant: Mattamy Homes
Location: 24575 Smithtown Road (Minnetonka Country Club Property)
Director Nielsen explained that Mattamy Homes has arranged to purchase the Minnetonka Country Club
(MCC) property located at 24575 Smithtown Road. The property is zoned R-1A Single-Family
Residential. The developer proposes to subdivide the property into 121 single-family residential lots. The
MCC property is 116.9 acres in size. To do so requires an amendment to the Shorewood Comprehensive
(Comp) Plan and, ultimately, approval of a planned unit development (PUD). Mattamy’s preapplication
request is to amend the Proposed Land Use Plan 2030 in the Comp Plan to change the land use
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classification for the MCC property to Low Density Residential (1 – 2 units per acre). It is currently
classified as Semi-Public. The change would make the Comp Plan and the Zoning Map consistent.
Shorewood has adopted a two-step process for considering amendments to its Comp Plan. The
preapplication stage allows the applicant to appear before the Planning Commission and Council on an
informal basis. The applicant can show their basic intent and the general nature of the proposal without
incurring substantial cost. The purpose of the preapplication stage is to:
1. Familiarize the Commission and Council with the proposal.
2. Review required information and identify any additional information necessary for proper request
evaluation.
3. Refer further plans to appropriate commissions and outside agencies (e.g. parks, watershed
district, etc.)
4. Provide direction to the applicant (e.g. indication of priorities, etc.).
5. Determine a schedule for review of a formal application.
Land use and zoning surrounding the site are as follows.
North: across Smithtown Road; single-family homes, zoned R-1A (1 unit per 40,000 square
feet) and R-1C (1 unit per 20,000 square feet); plus commercial development, zoned C-
1, General Commercial (Smithtown Crossing Redevelopment Area)
East: commercial development, zoned C-1; public (City Hall/Badger Park) and single-family
homes, zoned R-1C and R-1A
South: single-family homes, zoned R-1C and R-1A
West: single-family homes, zoned R-1A
The developer intends to cluster the houses on the more buildable portions of the site. There are portions
of the site that are low and have suspect soils. Those will be set aside as green space.
With regard to development issues, he stated that aside from the density/zoning issues staff has identified
a number of issues relative to any development of the subject property.
1. Perhaps the most significant single issue has to do with traffic/circulation. Single-family
residential development generates approximately 8-10 trips per day. The number of units
proposed would therefore generate 968 to 1210 trips per day. Smithtown Road, along the north
side of the project and Country Club Road, along the east side of the site, are both designated as
collector streets. The Country Club/Yellowstone Trail/Lake Linden Drive route is a substandard
collector route, and it leads to the Highway 7/41 intersection which is severely congested. On the
north end of Country Club Road, its intersection with Smithtown Road should be examined also.
Staff suggests that a traffic study be done that addresses ways to direct the new traffic to County
Road 19, while minimizing the volume of traffic that goes to the south.
Internally, the proposed site plan on the Conservation Development Concept Plan exhibit shows
only one connection to Smithtown Road which leaves a very long dead-end circulation pattern.
That is well over the 700-foot length maximum for a cul-de-sac that the City Code requires.
There is only one way in to the north and to the south.
Although it does not show well on the site plan, the developer has indicated a willingness to
construct some sort of perimeter trail system for the property that would be available for public
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use. The City has plans in 2015 to extend to the east the new sidewalk along Smithtown Road.
The sidewalk would be extended from the LRT Trail to the Smithtown Road and Country Road
19 intersection. During the January 29, 2015, Council and staff retreat Council will consider
whether to delay the Smithtown Road East Sidewalk Extension Project, pending review and
approval of the MCC plans.
2. Drainage is a significant issue that needs to be addressed in the applicant’s plans. Mattamy
representatives have suggested that the plans will not only address the rate of storm water leaving
the site, but also the volume. The intent appears to be to keep as much water on the property as
possible. The minimum requirement for addressing drainage is that the rate of runoff after the site
is developed cannot exceed the rate before the site is developed. The property for the most part
drains to the southwest. There is a system there that is somewhat substandard and the City
Engineer is somewhat concerned about the outlet for that.
3. The site is well served with existing sanitary sewer and municipal water utilities. Both utilities
serve the property. The Public Works Director has recommended that the sanitary sewer be
connected to the metro line that extends along Yellowstone Trail.
4. The City Council has delayed plans for Badger Park improvements pending study of the Comp
Plan amendment and review of this property. At minimum, the City will have to determine
whether to take land from the project for park improvements, require cash in lieu of land and, if
so, whether to take the eight percent of raw land value or the flat fee per lot allowed by the
Subdivision Code.
He noted that due to the size and complexity of the project the City Council decided to hire an
independent planning consultant to direct the public process and the information that flows out from the
City and to assess a broader scope of alternatives for the MCC property and its surrounding areas. Council
will select between two consultants during its January 12, 2015, meeting. The selected consultant will
start its work the next day. One of the consultant’s challenges will be to try to coordinate their efforts with
those of the developer. While the developer has indicated that they do not expect to do construction in
2015, they would like to have some sort of concept approval by early summer.
Nielsen recommended that time be devoted for both Council and the Planning Commission to review the
Comp Plan, particularly the goals, objectives and policies for each chapter contained in the Plan, as they
prepare for the review of the MCC plans. Regardless of how the subject property ends up being
redeveloped these policies serve as the City’s guide.
Nielsen noted that Rick Packer is present to talk about the project.
Council Liaison Sundberg noted that the consultants that have been interviewed are well regarded in
Minnesota. She also noted the City has hired a consulting firm to assess renewable energy options in the
City. She assumes the Planning Commission will be kept informed of what is going on with that
initiative.
Rick Packer, a Land Development Manager with Mattamy Homes, provided a little background about the
company. It has been doing work in this market for about eight years. Its home base is in Toronto,
Ontario, Canada. It is the largest builder in Canada. In the Twin Cities it is about the fourth largest builder
in volume and fifth largest builder in number of permits. The company is privately owned; it is owned by
one person. The owner is active in decisions made on a day-to-day basis. It has a number of vary large
holdings in the Twin Cities because the owner is a “land junkie”. The company’s culture and ethic is very
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different from a public company. The company name is a combination of the owner’s two children’s
names – Matt and Amy. Mattamy has initially assembled what it considers a pretty unique team to come
up with its plan. The other Land Development Manager with Mattamy grew up three blocks from the
MCC property and his father runs a business in the City of Tonka Bay. Mr. Packer had been a project
manager for Bear Path Country Club; therefore, he understands what goes into building a golf course in
conjunction with residential. His son has a degree in golf course management and his son educated him
on all the different things he would likely find when testing of the site for pollution, chemicals and so
forth that was put down on the MCC golf course to make the grass green. The company thought its
employees had enough knowledge of the community and the industry to develop a plan that made sense.
Mr. Packer highlighted a list of things that were taken into consideration when preparing a draft concept
plan.
There is no desire to create some grand vision that would be a monument to the company.
There is no desire to change the zoning of the site which is one unit per Shorewood acre.
There is already an issue with traffic volume going down Country Club Road and ultimately to
Highway 7. Therefore, a conscious decision was made to not have an exit on to or from Country
Club Road onto the property.
Company staff understood there would be property line issues because the survey methods used
100 years ago are not as accurate as they are today. That was taken into consideration.
Company staff understood where many of the flooding issues on the site were. The plans stayed
away from those areas.
Company staff had no desire to put one house on every 40,000 square foot parcel of land on the
site. The plan is to keep the houses on the high ground, disrupt as little of the site as possible
while maintaining the density the site is zoned for. Sixty-two of the acres on the site will be
preserved as open space. That leaves many opportunities that can be explored for the company,
the residents in the area and the City.
Mr. Packer explained that all stormwater calculations have already been done. Back-to-back, 100-
hundred-year events have been planned for. All stormwater will be conveyed through a 24-inch pipe that
currently leaves the site. The intent is to decrease volume of stormwater leaving the site because there is a
Minnehaha Creek Watershed District (MCWD) requirement to keep the first inch of any rainfall on site.
The intent is to have a buffer area around the entire development. The buffer will range in size from 100
feet to 40 acres. That was done because residents did not want to have houses backed up to them to avoid
any property line disputes there might be and just to be good neighbors.
The majority of the proposed lots will roughly be 90 feet by 150 feet. That allows for adequately sized
houses. The side yard setbacks will be 10 feet. The first thought was for the front yard setback to be 40
feet but consideration is being given to changing that to 30 feet depending on the quality of the soils in
any particular area. A concerted effort has been made to not back any houses up to streets or residences;
the back of a house is not the most attractive side. The cul-de-sacs have been brought up closer to the
streets for a variety of reasons, in particular to Smithtown Road and Country Club Drive. Things will be
constructed in a way that emergency vehicles will be able to enter directly on to some cul-de-sacs.
The reason there is not another access on to Smithtown Road in the northwest corner is there is a wetland
there. Currently it takes about 18 months to process a permit to fill in a wetland. That encourages
developers not to do that. If Mattamy decides it want to have another access onto Smithtown Road that
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filling in of the wetland would be part of the last phase of the project. There is no plan to fill in any other
wetlands or water features on the site.
Mr. Packer noted Mattamy has tried to be respectful of the traffic concerns. He stated that it has notified
all of the neighbors surrounding the site that there may be a possibility that surveyors may end up walking
on a portion of their property and that the surveyors do not have any idea of what is going on with the site
so there is no point in asking them any questions. The company has received calls from some residents
and none seem to be surprised that the property will be redeveloped.
He also noted that the houses that will be constructed will be the same as to the ones Mattamy constructed
in the Charley Lake Preserve in the City of North Oaks. Mattamy is the first production home builder that
has ever been allowed to build in North Oaks. That subdivision opened in June 2014 and to date 43 of the
64 lots have been sold. It is Mattamy’s fastest growing subdivision in the northern hemisphere. The prices
range from $800,000 – $1.2 million. For the MCC site the base lot and house will be in the $750,000 –
$800,000 range. But, no one is going to build a base house on a base lot.
Mr. Packer thanked Director Nielsen for all of the assistance he has provided. He offered to entertain any
questions the Planning Commissioners may have.
Chair Geng thanked Mr. Packer for providing an overview of what Mattamy is considering. He also
thanked Mattamy for its sensitivity to the residents in the area and for its desire to preserve open space.
Council Liaison Sundberg thanked Mr. Packer and Mattamy for addressing the community environment
and for proactively reaching out to the community.
Chair Geng stated that Mr. Packer had indicated that the base lot and house will be in the $750,000 –
$800,000 range and that the minimum lot site will be 13,500 square feet. That size lot is quite a bit
smaller than the Shorewood acre (40,000 square feet). He asked what Mattamy is proposing as a range of
lot sizes.
Mr. Packer explained in that price range all of its product is designed with a 70-foot-wide footprint. Most
builders for less than an acre lot will cover the lot from setback to setback side/side. That is simple
economics of about $2,000 a foot. They have not found the market will pay $2,000 a foot between 90-
foot-wide lot and 100-foot-wide lot. Any lot wider than 90 feet is a waste of land, a waste of streets and a
waste of the financial viability of the project. The houses at Charley Preserve are on one acre lots. Unless
there is a big sprawling house on those lots the houses look out of place because there are 5,000 – 6,000
square foot houses that sit on a 150-foot-wide lot. He thought the proposed houses will look better on a 10
foot side yard setback lots.
He noted that Mattamy wants to make the most use of the site’s density in a way that is environmentally
sensitive to the area. He stated nothing stops the company from putting down 60 helical footings and
building houses where they should not be built. Mattamy wants to build the houses on the high spots and
not where the flooding occurs. He noted the lots adjacent to open space will not be as wide as 90 feet. He
stated that Mattamy could go with 100-foot-wide lots but will not because it wants the open spaces to be
visible to people driving by and for pedestrian access throughout the site. He noted that Mattamy does not
want any lots to be less than 150 feet deep. He stated if the lots were to be made one acre lots then all of
the open space goes away.
Director Nielsen stated the minimum lot width in the R-1A district is 120 feet.
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Chair Geng stated that owners of properties in that price range may want to have a pool. He questioned if
there would be room for pools on the lot sizes being proposed. Mr. Packer stated it will not be possible to
put pools in on many of the lots because the lot will be up high.
Director Nielsen asked what Mattamy’s depth of the footprint generally is. Mr. Packer responded 50 feet.
Mr. Packer stated if people are going to want to build a pool they should select a lot that will
accommodate that.
Chair Geng noted the City’s Comp Plan encourages adequate off-street parking. He asked if Mattamy
foresees on-street parking. Mr. Packer stated Mattamy has not gotten that far in the design process. He
explained a 32-foot-wide street face-to-face of curb allows for parking on both sides of the street. In order
to reduce impervious surface to reduce runoff a 28-foot-wide street face-to-face curb may be constructed
and parking would only be allowed on one side of the street. For a project Mattamy is doing in a northern
suburb the street is 26 feet wide face-to-face and bump-outs are constructed for some on-street parking.
Mr. Packer noted that each one of its houses has a minimum of a three car garage. There will be parking
for three vehicles outside of each car inside and then there will be room to park on the driveway. That
amounts to being able to accommodate nine vehicles.
Commissioner Maddy asked what the proposed ownership structure is of the open space. Mr. Packer
responded Mattamy does not know. Mr. Packer stated if the City wants to own the open space so
everyone can use the amenities such as trails in the open space then the City has to maintain it. If the open
space is going to be private and Mattamy builds the trails then there is a concern about the liability of
opening the private space to the public. He noted that the space will either be public or owned by a
homeowners association (HOA).
Chair Geng stated his greatest concerns with the proposed project are the traffic impact and the
entrance/exit on Yellowstone Trail. He noted that Director Nielsen had stated earlier that the realignment
of the Smithtown Road and Country Road 19 intersection has reduced traffic on Country Club Road
substantially. Commissioner Muehlberg also noted the heavy traffic when school lets out at that
intersection; it backs up quite a bit. Mr. Packer stated the entrance/exit on to or off of Smithtown Road is
proposed to be located a reasonable distance from the intersection. Muehlberg noted the increase of traffic
on Yellowstone Trail will be problematic. Geng noted he thought it prudent that a very thorough traffic
study be done. Mr. Packer stated that Mattamy would have started that study already but the City wants
control over it because it may want to expand it to more than this project. He then stated what is currently
being proposed could amount to 1,000 vehicle trips a day spread throughout the day. Geng stated the City
has heard complaints about traffic on Country Club Road, Yellowstone Trail and Lake Linden Drive long
before this project was ever discussed. Mr. Packer stated that traffic entering on to Yellowstone Trail
from the development will divert it from going down Country Club Road to Yellowstone Trail and on to
Lake Linden Drive.
Mr. Packer noted that Country Club Road is on the MCC property without an easement. That will have to
be addressed. The public sewer line that runs across the property is not in an easement.
Mr. Packer stated one cul-de-sac does meet the 700 foot maximum standard. Originally there had been a
second access to Smithtown Road but when Mattamy found out that access had been in a wetland
delineation it pulled the access out.
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Chair Geng stated the concept plan shows an egress for an emergency entrance/exit to Smithtown Road in
the northwest corner of the site. He asked how that can be done through a wetland. Mr. Packer stated that
has to be done through permitting. Mr. Packer stated if there were to be an access point on to Smithtown
Road on the west side a person could go out and west on Smithtown Road towards Highway 7.
Commissioner Muehlberg stated there is no stoplight at that intersection of Eureka Road and Highway 7
so it is not easy to get on to Highway 7 very quickly.
Chair Geng stated the concept plans show that holding ponds will be added to the site. Mr. Packer
confirmed that. Geng then stated that it is his understanding that Mattamy has some applications pending
with the MCWD. Mr. Packer stated that Mattamy has a 900-unit development at Woodland Cove and has
had to work with the MCWD on that. Mr. Packer clarified that the company has not submitted any
applications to the MCWD for the MCC property but it has met with MCWD representatives. Mattamy
needs to have a plan before it can apply for any type of permit from the MCWD.
Geng asked Mr. Packer if Mattamy representatives have spoken with representatives from the Excelsior
Fire Department (EFD) or the South Lake Minnetonka Police Department (SLMPD) about concerns they
may have. Mr. Packer responded no. Geng stated he assumes that would be premature. Mr. Packer stated
Mattamy has tried to limit communications with the community until there has been more discussion with
Council and the Planning Commission.
Geng noted that the City is going to hire a consultant on Monday, January 12, 2015, to assist the City with
planning activities associated with this project and to take a broader view on the development in that area
and the Smithtown Crossing Redevelopment Area. He stated that before the Planning Commission moves
forward with this preapplication process he would like the Commission to meet with the consultant to
discuss the consultant’s views. He asked the Commissioners if they could meet on January 20 if the
consultant could accommodate that.
Mr. Packer stated he knows both consultants the Council is going to consider and both are top notch.
They both propose solutions that make sense.
After discussion, there was consensus amongst the Commissioners to meet with the consultant on either
January 20 or February 3.
Geng moved, Davis seconded, continuing this discussion about Mattamy’s preapplication for a
Comprehensive Plan amendment for the Minnetonka Country Club (MCC) property until the
Planning Commission has had an opportunity to meet on January 20 or February 3, 2015, with the
planning consultant the City is going to hire for the MCC redevelopment project.
Mr. Packer stated that continuing this discussion would result in a loss of 30 days in the process for him.
He noted he heard the concerns expressed this evening and he will talk to the consultant. He explained
that the next time he comes back before the Planning Commission Mattamy will be submitting a formal
application so it does not lose the 30 days in the process. He clarified he is respectful of what the
Commission wants to do but Mattamy needs to close on the purchase of the property in the middle of this
coming summer. He stated Mattamy wants to start soliciting public comment soon.
In response to a question from Maddy, Director Nielsen clarified the Planning Commission does not need
to take any formal action on the preapplication. Nielsen stated the issues and concerns conveyed this
evening have been noted. He then stated if the consultant can meet with the Commission on January 20 it
would keep things on schedule for the Council to discuss the preapplication during its January 26
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January 6, 2015
Page 14 of 14
meeting. Nielsen noted that both planning consultants are aware of Mattamy’s desire to get far enough
along in the planning process to purchase the MCC property this summer.
Motion passed 5/0.
5. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
There were no matters from the floor presented this evening.
6. OLD BUSINESS / NEW BUSINESS
7. DRAFT NEXT MEETING AGENDA
Chair Geng noted that on either January 20, 2015, or February 3, 2015, the Planning Commission will
meet with the planning consultant the City Council will select during its January 12, 2015, meeting for
planning services related to the residential redevelopment of the Minnetonka Country Club property.
Director Nielsen stated the City has started to receive applications for consideration during the Planning
Commission’s February 3, 2015 meeting.
8. REPORTS
• Liaison to Council
Planning Commissioner Labadie reported on Council’s December 8, 2014, meeting (as detailed in the
minutes of that meeting).
• SLUC
• Other
9. ADJOURNMENT
Davis moved, Maddy seconded, Adjourning the Planning Commission Meeting of January 6, 2015,
at 9:04 P.M. Motion passed 5/0.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Christine Freeman, Recorder