01-21-16 Traffic Comm AgendaCity of Shorewood
5755 Country Club Road
Shorewood, MN 55331
PH: 952 -960 -7900
Committee Members:
Traffic Committee Meeting
Thursday, January 21, 2016
5:30 PM
City Council Chambers
Susanne Aspley
David Cooley
Jeff Coplan
Kathy Curry
Teresa Elsbernd
Bob Gagne
1. Review Agenda
Facilitator:
Chris Gehrke Chuck Rickart, WSB Engineer
Sandy Finke
Ed Hasek City Staff:
Ken Huskins
John Mohn Larry Brown, Public Works Director
Angela Nelson Paul Hornby, City Engineer
2. Approve January 7, 2016 Meeting Minutes
3. Review Idea /Concept List
a. Refine list /Combine options
b. Identify Advantages /Disadvantages
c. Prioritization of options
4. Final Report Format
5. Next Meeting Date
6. Adjourn
CITY OF SHOREWOOD
TRAFFIC COMMITTEE MEETING
THURSDAY, JANUARY 7, 2016
115`1 Q111 Y'1fa
COMMITTEE MEMBERS:
David Cooley Sandy Finke
Angela Nelson Ed Hasek
Teresa Elsbernd Ken Huskins
Bob Gagne Kathy Curry
5755 COUNTRY CLUB RD
SHOREWOOD CITY HALL
5:30 P.M.
FACILITATOR:
Chuck Rickart, WSB Engineer
CITY STAFF
Larry Brown, Public Works Director
Paul Hornby, City Engineer
ABSENT: C
John Mohn Susanne Aspley
Jeff Coplan Chris Gehrke
1. REVIEW AGENDA
Huskins convened the meeting at 5:35 PM. He reviewed the agend
members. He asked if there were any questionsabout or additions
Cooley described traffic travel coming out of it.
may include the use of Yellowstone to the east.
be included for discussion.
Finke expressed concern
curve corner.
Nelson recapped that Ye
discussion. The commit
1 _ 12 : i1MA 1�
Elsbernd moved, Hasek
Hasek dissenting.,
the benefit of the committee
e agenda.
and the route they may take, which
ellowstone to the east of Lake Linden
the intersection of Yellowstone and SeAns Drive, noting it is a blind
one east and west of Lake Linden would be added to the agenda for
ed,
ER 10, 2015 MEETING MINUTES
Aed to approve the minutes. Motion passed 6/2, with Cooley and
Hasek expressed concerned about details missing from the minutes, specifically pros and cons of the
concepts discussed. He was concerned that Council would not get the details of what the committee has
discussed. e.
Elsbernd stated her understanding is that a summary report, not the minutes, would be provided to
Council.
Huskins noted the meetings are being recorded. He talked about a document that Rickart had prepared for
a different project that listed concepts with pros and cons. He thought that would be a model for what
this committee's report would look like. He stated that perhaps for the next meeting, the committee
should discuss how to report the results. He thought another part to report are the ideas that had majority
support, ideas that members disagreed on, and "pet" ideas of members. It could also include how the
committee members stacked up (by broad appeal, minority appeal, etc).
TRAFFIC COMMITTEE MINUTES
THURSDAY, JANUARY 7, 2016
PAGE 2 OF 7
In response to a question from Hasek, Huskins stated we can encourage all committee members to attend
the final meetings to receive their input for inclusion in the report, but we cannot make people
participate.
Rickart stated he sees the committee having two more meetings to review the report format and prepare a
draft report for the committee to review.
Cooley noted on page 4 of minutes, line 1, he thought the minutes should include Yellowstone west and
east. Huskins recalled that only the east was discussed. Cooley supports more details in the minutes.
Cooley noted on the concept idea list; he had suggested earlier that there be right and left turn lanes on
Country Club Rd. The list will be amended to include that idea.
a. Review Yellowstone Trail concept ideas
Elsbernd asked for clarification on two items: 1) converting Country Club Road to a one -way; and 2)
converting a portion of Lake Linden to a one -way. Rickart noted Lake Linden would be discussed
tonight.
Rickart noted he included ideas that include streets that are under the committee's purview (such as
Country Club Road and Lake Linden), noting County Rd 19 improvements were not to be included.
Rickart noted the turn lanes on Country Club Rd will be added to the list.'
Hasek asked to include the straightening of Lake Linden. Rickart said this was Item #1 on the list under
Lake Linden Drive (sight lines remove curves). After further discussion Hasek thought a #4 should be
added: Realign Lake Linden Road with a new intersection at Yellowstone Trail. This would involve
removing two homes.
Huskins asked if there were any other items that were discussed that need to be added to the list. No other
items were identified.
3. MATTAMY PROJECT UPDATE
Homby indicated the development stage plan was received; the Planning Commission held a meeting on
January 5. He was not aware of the Planning Commission's action.
Huskins stated that he heard the Development Plan was approved by the Planning Commission.
Homby stated it would go to the City Council for consideration on January 25.
Huskins stated he also heard that a 65 -foot right -of -way along most of Country Club Rd was included as
part of the development stage approval.
4. LAKE LINDEN DRIVE IDEAS /CONCEPT DISCUSSION
a. 3 to 4 minutes per committee member
Finke reviewed the 7/41 intersection; noting one idea is to not allow a left turn exit from the east parking
lot entrance to the 7/41 intersection. She pointed out the area on the overhead map. Another suggestion
TRAFFIC COMMITTEE MINUTES
THURSDAY, JANUARY 7, 2016
PAGE 3 OF 7
was to make the the west entrance (Lake Linden traveling east) three lanes traveling east, with one a left
turn lane onto Hwy 7, the middle a straight across lane traveling south on Hwy 41, and the right a right
turn lane onto Hwy 7. The 4"' lane would allow traffic coming off of Hwy 7 to travel west on Lake
Linden Drive. This would be in conjunction with closing the exit from the east parking lot entrance.
Elsbernd expressed concern about how the closing of the east parking lot exit to the 7/41 intersection
could potential stack up traffic exiting the cub parking lot at the south entrance /exit on Lake Linden
Drive.
Nelson suggested an alternate route for a west bound turn lane off of Lake Linden that would travel to a
new westbound entrance to Hwy 7 without going to the 7/41 intersection, similar to the Hwy 101/7
intersection. Gagne noted there was an intersection in that area that had to be closed off years ago when
the intersection was redone as part of the shopping center /roadway;agreement. Gagne said this was
closed as part of agreement for that project.
Brown stated it may be very difficult to reopen that entrance, but could be discussed with MnDOT.
Hasek noted a con would be teaching people how to get to the westbound exit.
Cooley thought this suggestion was a good option. He thought it would require loss of the grassy median
with /trees between Lake Linden and parking lot.
Discussion took place on whether or not Lake Linden Road was a city or state road. Part of it is state.
Rickart noted that MnDOT may consider turning back that road to the city.
Finke discussed another other option to make three lanes, and eliminate the westbound option. She
explained while pointing to the map.
Huskins understands these options would reduce congestion and improve traffic flow, but it doesn't
address traffic using that area for cut thru to Hwy 7. He gave an example: instead of making it more
possible at that intersection, do something to encourage people to use Yellowstone Trail to Academy and
to Hwy 7 to the west, as suggested earlier by Cooley. It would give people in the neighborhood a second
option for travel to /from their home.
Hasek thinks that may be a discussion for Council to have with Engineering and maybe even Excelsior,
noting there's not much room on that section of Yellowstone.
Huskins stated he takes Yellowstone to Academy to west on Hwy 7 to get to Hwy 41.
Elsbernd takes Lake Linden to 41, noting it is worse at rush hour; and not so bad at other times of the
day. She likes the idea of a westbound intersection, similar to Knollwood Mall. She thinks the comments
have been about congestion at that intersection and not about Lake Linden traffic. The committee agreed.
Rickart noted to be aware of how the truck traffic travels in /out of the shopping center; noting the truck
entrance /exits go around building.
Hasek said Planning Director Brad Nielsen stated the larger trucks are required to use south entrance. He
explained how the trucks back into the facility at various locations.
TRAFFIC COMMITTEE MINUTES
THURSDAY, JANUARY 7, 2016
PAGE 4 OF 7
Rickart stated he wanted the committee to be aware that there will always be backups at Lake Linden;
improvements will help but will not solve the problem completely.
Hasek identified three problems and pointed them out on the map: 1) there's only one lane in rush hour
and traffic pulls out and blocks one lane; 2) Cars pass around the stacked cars to get out; the stop sign
means nothing; 3) Cars block traffic from going west on Lake Linden Drive.
Rickart stated Hwy 7 would probably have to be widened to add the westbound entrance. There would
be some constraints to deal with, but they could discuss with MnDOT. Federal money was used to close
accesses; MnDOT control the access, and there would be hoops to go through toget access back.
Elsbernd asked who owns the green area between parking lot and street.
Hasek noted the development was required to have a certain number of parking stalls; it would cost
money to get property back from a commercial development.
Cooley suggested if there were two lanes, perhaps just the existing green area would be needed, so not as
much land would need to be purchased. That, with the westbound entrance on Hwy. 7 would maybe
make it doable.
Hasek noted the pros and cons list is needed The committee agreed.
Curry asked about the item on the list that was to add access from Yellowstone trail to Hwy 7 west of
Country Club Road with a traffic signal.
Finke stated this was discussed, but it is not known how likely it would be that MnDOT would to put a
light in at that intersection.
Brown noted that a few years ago, the city wanted a traffic signal at Eureka Rd and Hwy 7, noting that
Chanhassen was trying to get a traffic signal at Minnewashta Pkwy and Hwy 7 and MnDOT told
Chanhassen no as it did not meet signal warrants at that time. At that time the city dropped the idea for a
traffic signal at Eureka and Hwy 7.
Curry asked if it is worth revisiting. Rickart talked about different types of warrants, such as traffic
volumes over period of time; school traffic, etc. He also talked about signal justification reports and
intersection control options, which look at things such as round -a- bouts. Discussion took place about
round -a -bouts in other areas.
Curry confirmed she was suggesting looking at a round -a -bout for the intersection of Eureka and Hwy 7.
Gagne asked if the curve on Lake Linden could be straightened (the portion just south of Yellowstone).
Brown noted that at one time, staff had sought proposals for straightening out that road, noting that the
State was on board, but the Council at that time opted not to do that. This was around 1997 -98.
Hasek asked if a wall would need to be built to straighten out Lake Linden Road. Brown responded yes;
it is fairly steep.
Homby used the GIS system that is on the city website, showing the Lake Linden Road contours, and
discussed how members can use the GIS map system.
TRAFFIC COMMITTEE MINUTES
THURSDAY, JANUARY 7, 2016
PAGE 5 OF 7
Elsbernd showed on the map, an option to straighten Lake Linden Road to Yellowstone. Hasek showed
there is a wetland in that area that the road would need to go around. A con is that there is a property that
that would have a roadway on three sides of the property.
Cooley had an idea that he indicated people would not like. He showed on the map an option to realign
Hwy 41 to Lake Linden. Doing so would require Super America to move. It was noted this is in
Chanhassen. Cooley stated that realignment would eliminate the existing Hwy 7/41 intersection to the
shopping center, making it a more direct alignment.
Huskins discussed the concept of making part of Lake Linden Rd a one -way to reduce cut thru traffic.
He pointed to the map to show a point where part of Lake Linden Rd would be a one -way only (traveling
south). This would prevent people from using the cut- through (Lake Linden') to travel north.
Elsbernd noted that lives on Mtka Drive, behind Cub; the school is south on Hwy 41. As an example, she
would need to go around to Excelsior to get home. She stated is is not fond of one -ways, and feels this is
transferring the problem from one area to another.
Huskins thinks that things we do to increase flow needs to be counterbalanced with ways to inhibit
people from using the cut -thru, such as a winding road, speed bumps, flashing signs, etc. `The task is to
find ways to keep people on the major roads.
Nelson indicated a con for her with this idea is that it will just shift traffic to use Eureka, Seamans, or
other roads and create a problem somewhere else.
Elsbernd departed at 6:52 PM.
Cooley stated that he thinks people will cut thru the parking lot if Lake Linden is.a partial one -way. He
thinks making traffic go < around to Academy and Yellowstone east of Lake Linden is causing a problem
on those roads. It was confirmed that Yellowstone east of Lake Linden is not a state aid road. Nor is
Yellowstone west of Country Club a state aid road. Cooley didn't think traffic should be directed to non -
state aid roads. He has issues of making a one -way road that pushes traffic to non -state aid roads.
Hasek indicated enforcement is huge. As is signage and traffic calming that doesn't take major redesign.
He asked what is the life of a battery on traffic signals with blinking lights? Rickart said they are made
for northern climates; they last a long time. Hasek indicated the attitude of drivers needs to change.
Cooley indicated he liked the idea of adding 3 -4 lanes at the 7/41 intersection. He said overhead
lights /signs would be needed to let people know what lane to be in.
YELLOWSTONE TRAIL EAST AND WEST OF LAKE LINDEN (THIS ITEM WAS ADDED
TO THE AGENDA FOR DISCUSSION)
Finke stated that as Yellowstone curves into Seamans Drive, it would help to get rid of the trees to
improve sight lines and add a speed limit sign. Hasek noted there should be a curve sign in both
directions.
Nelson noted that people from both directions don't respect which side of the road they are on, and often
drive into oncoming traffic. If cars take the curve wide, there's no way for traffic coming from the
opposite direction to see. She asked if the curve could be widened.
TRAFFIC COMMITTEE MINUTES
THURSDAY, JANUARY 7, 2016
PAGE 6 OF 7
Hasek noted that people walk on that road as well.
Huskins suggested an idea of adding vertical cone dividers in middle.
Brown stated that the tree removal impacts the homeowner. He stated an alternative is to make that a 90
degree turn with stop sign and push it to the west. The committee liked this idea.
Huskins asked about the intersection on Yellowstone, west of Country Club, to the Mattamy
Development exit /entrance, and if there is a recommendation for items such as a stop sign, traffic light,
and what will be the width of the road.
Homby noted that entrance will line up with Club Valley Road. It is a 28 ft wide road.
Brown noted those details are in process and will meet city roadway standards.
Hasek stated traffic to /from the development will travel in all directions. Discussion took place on the
driving habits, particularly speed, of people living in the area and cut -thru traffic.
Homby stated the development will have a stop sign. A stop sign exists at Club Valley Road. There is
already a stop at Country Club Road; there will likely not be stop signs on Yellowstone at Club
ValleyRoad /and new entrance to development.
Huskins noted that cars are speeding today on Yellowstone.
Finke thinks traffic will automatically slow down as people turn into the Mattamy development.
Rickart stated that stop signs don't slow down traffic.
Nelson asked if a walking path an option.
Hasek thinks a Tour -way stop should be considered. Rickart indicated that if it is not warranted, and it is
put in; it will be more difficult to remove it, even if it doesn't work. It becomes an unwarranted stop
sign. He noted it is easier to add a stop if an issue develops.
Homby stated an unwarranted stop sign is also a liability for the city.
Finke suggested this be put on the list noting pros /cons of it.
It was confirmed that the walking path will also be on the list.
Discussion moved to Yellowstone Trail east of Lake Linden.
Cooley noted this is a narrow road, houses are close to the road and there are many driveways. Hasek
counted 14. Cooley indicated there are more at the Excelsior end.
Finke asked what suggestions Cooley has for Yellowstone east of Lk Linden to Excelsior. Cooley
suggested additional stop signs.
Nelson indicated there may be some visibility issues; the road curves; and it is hard to see some
intersections.
TRAFFIC COMMITTEE MINUTES
THURSDAY, JANUARY 7, 2016
PAGE 7 OF 7
Cooley asked if there are traffic calming measures to keep people from speeding on that portion of
Yellowstone.
Huskins asked if anyone had issues with solutions that move traffic on that portion of Yellowstone/
Nelson indicated agreement with Cooley earlier statement that traffic should not be directed to this
portion of Yellowstone (a non -state aid road) just to keep it off of Lake Linden (a state aid road). She
sees this as moving a problem from one road to another.
Cooley asked what are the expectations or side streets vs. state aid roads.
Finke asked if stop signs with lights or driver education on speed would be help.
Discussion ensued regarding traffic speed and driver habits. Cooley noted that the traffic speed
reminders on Country Club Road were good, but they won't cause everyone to slow down. He also noted
that flashing lights on stop signs would help.
Curry asked to include the addition of a pedestrian bike path /lane along Yellowstone.
b. Pros /cons of each idea /concept (some were identified in above discussions)
5. NEXT MEETING
a. Topics
Finke stated she liked the idea of ranking the items on the list and identifying pros and cons for each.
Hasek wanted to clarify item #9 on the list, under Yellowstone, refers to a pedestrian trail is separate
from the road; Rickart confirmed it is off road.
Huskins encouraged members to look at the list and come to the next meeting with any additional ideas,
or a combination of things that make sense.
Nelson asked, and Rickart confirmed, that members will get the updated list as soon as possible.
b. Date — The next meeting was scheduled for Thursday, January 21, 2016, at 5:30
PM.
The meeting adjourned at 7:29 PM
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Jean Panchyshyn
Recorder
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