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103090 CC WS Min CITY OF SHOREWOOD CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MONDAY, OCTOBER 30, 1990 COUNCIL CHAMBERS 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD PAGE 1 . M I NUT E S CALL TO ORDER Mayor Haugen called the meeting to order at 7:35 P.M. ROLL CALL Present: Mayor Haugen, Councilmembers Gagne, Stover, Watten, City Finance Director Rolek, City Engineer Norton and City Administrator Whittaker, Councilmember Brancel arrived at 8:00 P.M. RECYCLING - RFP 1991 . Councilmember Watten asked about the compensation received by the recycling firms. Mayor Haugen said the firms are currently receiving no money for paper but have varying rates for other materials. They keep the money for the material they sell. Administrator Whittaker said the City is requesting proposals to see if the City rate is competitive with that for a joint contract. The County reimburses the City for 80% of the cost. The current cost per household is just over $2.00 per month. The County will require the City to pick-up additional types of material by January 1, 1991. Councilmember Stover said a pre-set goal must be reached. Councilmember Gagne said the City should continue to use the current recycler, if their price is lower. Stover asked when they would find out about the price. The proposals are due Nov. 5, 1990 and a meeting will be scheduled to review the proposals early in the week. Stover asked if the County requires waste haulers to be licensed. Whittaker said they did. WATER TREATMENT PLANT RESOLUTION NO. 122-90 A. ENGINEERING Haugen stated that when the City received the S. E. Area well it was a Capital Improvement. The City should be responsible for it. When the Waterford III development is built, the City will decide where the TIF money should be spent. She said some of the money should be used for a water treatment facility in the S.E. Area. That way, there may not be a need to increase taxes for the facility. Watten said the Council needs to decide whether each individual should provide their own iron removal or whether the City should install an iron removal at the well. \ Haugen said the City cannot afford to install such systems at all wells. Whittaker said the TIF funds can be used anywhere in the S.E. Area of the City. . Phil Olson, Minnesota Water Quality Association Mr. Olson said he would like to see the figures that indicate a central plant uses less water in its filtering than individual CITY OF SHOREWOOD CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MONDAY, OCTOBER 30, 1990 COUNCIL CHAMBERS 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD PAGE 2 . systems. He said municipal systems must abide by a 10 State Standard. The water treated at the point of use is not used for lawns and other outside uses. But, City treated water will be used for everything. Gagne said the first decision should be whether to install a central plant or to continue with individual filtering. He said there were many vocal people attending the Public Hearing. Penny Vogel - from audience. Ms. Vogel asked if the plant would have the capacity to filter water for the entire area. She wondered about the use of water for pools. Haugen said many pools are filled by tankers, not from City water. Mike Pflaum - Lundgren Brothers. Mr. Pflaum said Lundgren Bros. built 200 houses in the S. E. Area. He has had few complaints about water quality. He asked the company's plumber if there were complaints. He said there were a few and he had installed in-house filters. The system was designed to last for 4 - 5 years with periodic bleeding to maintain it. Brancel arrived at 8:00 P.M. . Mr. Pflaum said there would have been more people at the Public Hearing if the cost per house had been identified. He said there is a variation in housing prices in the area and some people would feel differently about this expense. Gary Capone . Mr. Capone has 30 years in the Water Business and is a member of the Minnesota Water Quality Association. He said the point-of-use should be the point of treatment; what is treated today can change and the treatment and maintenance will also change. Once a municipal system is installed, the City is stuck with it. Capone said he could install an iron removal system for as little as $200 with a cost of up to $1000.00 for a softening system. Stover asked if a person would have to purchase a new system every 5 years. Capone said the housing would last longer but the screen would have to be replaced for approximately $30.00. Whittaker asked how much the system would filter from 2 parts/million. Capone said it would reduce iron to .03 PPM. He said a person can rent filter systems and some automatic systems that can be more expenSIve. Watten asked about current attitudes toward receiving softened water at the house. Capone said it is controversial. Softened water would, then, be used for lawn sprinkling and fires. There is also an additional sodium content in softened water. Stover asked, if the aquifers are changing, would additional equipment be needed for filtering or would this be built into the original system? Capone said new canisters would be needed or more frequent flushing of the system would be necessary. Engineer Norton asked Olson and Capone if they represented the Point of Use Industry? Olson said no. 2 CITY OF SHOREWOOD CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MONDAY, OCTOBER 30, 1990 COUNCIL CHAMBERS 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD PAGE 3 4It Norton explained that the Point of Use Industry is supported by the Water Softener Association. Haugen asked Norton, if the aquifer would change making more plant and equipment necessary? Norton said is is not likely that the iron content would rise from 1.9 PPM to 5 or 6 PPM. Noel Vogen, Associated Consultants Engineers, Inc. Vogen also said that it would be unlikely that the iron content would change that drastically. He also said that the 1000 GPM system would serve the entire S. E. area. Haugen asked if the well could also serve the Amesbury Area. Vogen said it is not able to handle the fire demand for the entire area. Norton said it could supply the area most of the time; except in times of fire or heavy summer sprinkling. If more water was needed, the Amesbury pump would come on. Whittaker said this would then dilute the softened water in the S. E. area. Watten asked if sediment builds up when the water is not moving in the well tank. Norton said the water is constantly moving in the tank but there will be some build-up. Vogen said a film develops when the water comes in contact with air. Olson asked if there is iron bacteria in the lines. Norton said no. . Hank Christenson - from audience. Mr. Christenson said he has not come to previous meeting on this issue. However, he feels the residents need an answer. The Council is going nowhere on this topic. Haugen said the Council would like to collect as much information as possible on the subject. Penny Vogel - Ms. Vogel asked who did the feasibility report? Haugen said Associated Consultants. Gagne said the Council has talked about this for a year. All of the Council members have treated and softened their own wells. The S. E. Area homes were taken off the Minnetonka water system, which has treatment, and put on the Shorewood system. This is when the problems started. B. FINANCING . Stover said a municipal system would be expensive. She wants a system that will handle the problem efficiently. Christensen said he objects to dividing up City services among sections of the City. Haugen said that the treatment system is a Capital Improvement. The TIP money can be used for Capital Improvements. CITY OF SHOREWOOD CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MONDAY, OCTOBER 30. 1990 COUNCIL CHAMBERS 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD PAGE 4 ~ Whittaker said that 1/2 the cost of the proposed plant would be paid for by TIF money, the other 1/2 would have to be funded by another source. Until there is a surplus of TIF money, another source of revenue would have to pay for the plant. Haugen said a water rate increase was suggested by some residents. However, Shorewood's water rate is already the highest in Hennepin County. She said that the rates could be lowered when the TIF money is available. Gagne said he would not like to raise the water rate for the entire City. HANK CHRISTIANSON Mr. Christianson said the City is paying $1 Million for an intersection at Old Market Road and the water pipes in Waterford are rotting. ~ Haugen said the Council is still gathering information on the project. Stover said the Council has asked the Community, did a survey and held a Public Hearing. She said there are conflicts in the input the Council is receiving. She is concerned about the financial implications. Stover wants the Council to be fair and consistent to all citizens. She said the engineering opinions are somewhat the same but she wants to know about possible changes in the aquifer. Stover asked Finance Director Rolek to obtain information about iron filtering individually vs iron filtering at the well. Whittaker said the City has done surveys and come up with solutions. The residents are telling the Council that it costs them from $40 to $80 per month to filter their water. He said it is hard to imagine that residents didn't know about the proposed water treatment plant. At the Public Hearing, most of the people wanted a municipal system. He does not feel that more information needs to be obtained. Gagne said the Council has a Feasibility Report and should accept it. He won't dispute the facts with the Engineer. Whittaker said that if the cost of the project is not within the prices contained in the Feasibility Study, another Public Hearing should be held. RESIDENT FROM THE AUDIENCE A resident asked how long the engineering firm has been in business. He said the firm could not estimate high and still be in business. NEIL VOGEN OF ASSOCIATED CONSULTANTS Mr. Vogen said Associated Consultants has been in business since 1952. Brancel said the Council should either adopt this Feasibility Report or drop it. ~ MIKE PFLAUM Mr. Pflaum asked the Council if it could be demonstrated that the canister system can handle the problem, will they consider the system? Vogen said this would not solve the problem in the mains. Whittaker said this system sounds too good to be true based on all the available information. 4 ~ ~ ~ CITY OF SHOREWOOD CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MONDAY, OCTOBER 30, 1990 COUNCIL CHAMBERS 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD PAGE 5 Whittaker said this system sounds too good to be true based on all the available information. Christianson asked if Associated Consultants can evaluate other systems. PHIL OLSON Olson said that Engineer Norton mentioned the Point of Use organization. The Water Quality Association is also involved with the Point of Use organization. He said the City should make an objective decision and he would be glad to provide them with additional information. He said that 80% of the municipal well systems don't meet standards. Vogen said that his firm did a full spectrum analysis and iron was the only problem; that is not a health hazard. Christianson said the Council should call for bids for individual water treatment systems. Resident asked Capone to give the Council a proposal and then the Council can decide. Whittaker said, in order to call for bids, the City has to draw UP performance specifications and an have an independent firm test the systems. Haugen said the City has to abide by State rules. They must tell the water treatment industry the City is taking bids for a project. Watten asked if the City is obliged to clean up a nuisance; it does provide safe water. He said each individual may be able to handle their own iron removal. Whittaker said the City often goes beyond the bare essentials. He said the Council should ask the Engineers who they would hire to evaluate the project. Norton said Vogen should have determined if a municipal system was the best way to solve the problem. Whittaker said Vogen was not asked to determine this. He was asked to a~sess the feasibility of a municipal system. Norton said Vogen can evaluate both systems. Vogen said that many people at the Public Hearing talked about the point of use system. Many of these people paid a lot of money for their systems and still want a municipal system. Stover said Shorewood has different water systems. She has a problem with providing a water treatment system for one area exclusively. Norton said this would set a precedent in the City. Haugen asked if the Council would like to vote on the Feasibility Study. Whittaker said the Council already had. Brancel said the Council could ask the Finance Committee to look into the funding of the project. Brancel moved, Gagne seconded, that the Council find that the Municipal Iron Removal/Water Treatment is necessary. Whittaker said that a performance based spec. would have to be established for the point of use organizations and that he is not sure it can be done for a project of this size. Brancel said the Council has told the residents they will look at a municipal system and they would continue to do so. Gagne said the City has 600 people on a water system and he considers this a municipal system. ~ . . . CITY OF SHOREWOOD CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MONDAY, OCTOBER 30, 1990 COUNCIL CHAMBERS 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD PAGE 6 Brancel moved, Gagne seconded. to adopt RESOLUTION NO. 122-90, "A Resolution Ordering Associated Consultants Engineers to prepare plans and specifications for the Water Treatment plant for the S. E. Area Water system, II subject to approval of a contract setting the fee. Motion carried - 3/2 (Stover. Watten) Stover said she is satisfied with Orr-Schelen as City Engineers and wants to see their cost estimate for plans and specifications. She wanted the motion changed. Brancel said she would not change the motion; the Council has already decided to use Associated Consultants. Watten said the Council used Associated Consultants based on their cost. Gagne said the City can reject all bids, if costs are not In line with those projected in the feasibility report. BREAK - 9:40-9:45 Gagne wanted to know how to finance the $40,000 for plans and specs. Rolek said that the Water Fund cannot finance the water treatmant plant. The City can use general funds and refund the money when the permanent financing is established. Watten said the City can put provisions tying the fee to reasonable bids in the contract before the contract is awarded to Associated Consultants. Gagne asked if this was done with other City projects. Whittaker said he has not done this in other cities. He said the Council should ask City Attorney Froberg for a determination. Whittaker said the money for the plans & specs. can come from Capital Improvements Funds which have been set aside for tank removal and public works Gagne asked Vogen if he can give a time frame for the bids. Vogen said the City can seek bids in January and take them in February 1991. Haugen asked Whittaker if there is money for this project. Whittaker said there is money but it is a matter of choice. The money has been tentatively set aside for a public works building and $200,000 for unforeseen soil treatment at the Public Works site. The contract should be voted on at the next meeting. A consultant will tell the City if the soil around the underground tanks is contaminated. The results should be known by Nov. 26, 1990. Haugen said the size and shape of the building concerns the residents around Silverwood Park and the Park Commission. Whittaker said the Park Commission was made aware of the size of the building. Ken Vogel - Park Commission Mr. Vogel said the Park Commission feels the addition of another building at Silverwood Park would detract from the Park. Whittaker said he has not had this opinion from other Park Commissioners. Haugen said the Council will wait for the Attorney's opinion on the contract for plans and specs. before a decision is made. Vogen said he has not worked under such conditions elsewhere. His fee has not been tied to the prices bid on a project. h CITY OF SHOREWOOD CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MONDAY, OCTOBER 30, 1990 COUNCIL CHAMBERS 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD PAGE 7 . FINANCING CAPITAL PROJECTS Whittaker said there has been a lot of feedback since the last meeting on financing drainage projects from the General Fund. There have been estimates of over $2 1/2 Million in drainage projects in the City. Capital Improvements in the Parks could cost 1 1/2 Mil. Gagne said that, as far as he is concerned, the Park Referendum will determine how much money will be spent on the Parks. Whittaker also said the cost for a Public Works Building could be $600,000. There is a street improvement fund; but it may not cover all improvements. The Council needs to decide which things are most essential and which things have a more specific benefit and can be financed in alternative ways. The $100,000 which was set aside last year for a Public Works Building. An additional $100,000 per year, over the next 5 years, will be needed to complete the building. There is $63,000 per year available within the City's levy limit. So, there is not a lot of money left in the General Fund. . If these projects are financed out of the General Fund, many more people will want their drainage projects done. Stover said many developments have already paid to solve their water problems and may not approve of a City-wide tax to finance ddrainage improvements in other areas of the City. . FINANCING SURFACE WATER DRAINAGE PROJECTS . Haugen said she thought it was decided to use Special Taxing Districts to finance drainage projects. She wanted to know if the Council- members have changed their minds. Gagne said he has not changed his mind but he is open for discussion. Gagne said there is no problem now on Glen Road; but, there will be when the water levels return to normal. He wants to know how the City can prove benefit to each property. Whittaker said it is hard to prove benefit with drainage problems. Gagne asked what will happen when a future Council decides to finance these projects City-wide. Brancel asked what would happen if other problems occured in these districts. Whittaker said the Council could order additional projects in the same district after a 429 process. Whittaker also said these districts can only be used to solve drainage problems. He said that every time the Special Taxing Districts are used, the 429 process must be followed. The tax is based on the tax capacity of the property. There is some relation to benefit. The law has been in existence since 1973. A person can only be in one Special Taxing District. Stover said the City will ultimately be divided into many taxing districts. She asked how the Council decides when to do a project. Whittaker said State law provides that if you do not have 35% of the people with frontage petitioning for a project, then YOU need a 4/5 vote of the Council to order the project. The current drainage prOblems were not petitioned. These projects will require 4/5 vote of the Council to order. . . CITY OF SHOREWOOD CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MONDAY, OCTOBER 30. 1990 COUNCIL CHAMBERS 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD PAGE 8 Whittaker said there is also a City policy for petitions; at least 51% of the property owners must petition. Watten asked which areas of Shorewood are most susceptible to drainage problems. Norton said there is no specific part of town, there are many areas. Brancel said there were draintiles in the City, but many were destroyed when the City sewer was installed or new homes were built. Norton said the Shorewood Oaks - Strawberry Lane area has a high water table. Watten said the Special Taxing Districts will segment the City. He said the idea is not equitable, assessments for drainage should be spread throughout the City. Haugen said the Council must decide how to draw the boundaries of the districts. Gagne asked if the Council wants to be involved in every decision concerning the Taxing Districts. Watten said maybe the City should be divided into larger segments, such as wards. Stover said it is not defensible to tax an area for drainage problems they do not contribute to. Whittaker said the new developments have paid large amounts of money to solve drainage problems. Gagne can't agree with using the General Fund for drainage problems. Haugen said if there is no change in the Council's opinions, then there will be no change in the policy. DEBRA FARRELL Mrs. Farrell said these districts have already been defined as watershed districts. The Council is defining them for tax purposes. BOUNDARY POLICY Whittaker said that the City of Plymouth states that every parcel which is in the subwatershed boundary, no matter what percentage, is in the district 100%. Whittaker said that, in his opinion, if the majority of the covered surface of the lot is in the district, then the property is in the district 100%. Brancel asked if this is done by a topographical map. Norton said it is. Whittaker said the Council needs to make choices. He says it needs to be done and the boundaries are fairly obvious. Stover said they should define either the covered surface or lot area in the district but not both. Brancel moved. Gagne seconded, to adopt a policy that if 50% of a lot is in a subwatershed, then the whole property is in the Special Taxing District. . Motion carried - 5/0 Whittaker said the Council should determine a date and time for the Public Hearing for Shady Hills. . . . CITY OF SHOREWOOD CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MONDAY, OCTOBER 30, 1990 COUNCIL CHAMBERS 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD PAGE 9 RESOLUTION NO. 123-90 Watten moved, Stover seconded, to adopt RESOLUTION NO. 123-90 "A Resolution ordering a Public Hearing on the Feasibility of the Shady Hills Drainage Project on Nov. 26, 1990 at 9:00 P.M." Motion carried - 5/0 on a roll call vote. Gagne asked about the Glen Road project. Norton said he has heard nothing. Haugen said she will call the Watershed District. Gagne said the City should leave the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District out of any further drainage projects. Whittaker said the City should design the project and ask them for a permit rather than asking them to design the project. Whittaker said the proposals for boundaries will be ready on Nov. 13th. Rolek said there will be a budget hearing on Nov. 26th; so the Public Hearing on the Glen Road project will have to be on Dec. 10, 1990 at 8:00 P.M. RESOLUTION NO. 124-90 Gagne moved, Stover seconded, to adopt RESOLUTION NO. 124-90 "A RESOLUTION ordering a Public Hearing on the Feasibility of the Glen Road drainage project on Dec. 10, 1990 at 8:00 P.M." Motion carried - 5/0 on a roll call vote. Whittaker said the Council should establish the District for Shady Hills on Nov. 13th and the district for Glen Road on Nov. 26th. Norton said the taxing district that was published identifies a larger district than is going to be taxed. It needs to be clarified. Haugen asked if there were any further questions. Whittaker said the Council should reschedule the Public Hearing on the Church Road Feasibility Study. There has been no feedback from the residents. Watten moved, Gagne seconded, to reschedule the Public Hearing for the Church Road Feasibility Study to Dec. 10, 1990 at 9:00 P.M. Motion carried - 5/0 on a roll call vote. EXCELSIOR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN Stover moved, Watten seconded, to advise the Metropolitan Council that the City of Shorewood approves the Excelsior Comprehensive Plan Amendments. Motion carried - 5/0. CONSENT AGENDA Stover moved, Gagne seconded to approve the following Consent Agenda. -"f . . . CITY OF SHOREWOOD CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MONDAY, OCTOBER 30, 1990 COUNCIL CHAMBERS 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD PAGE 10 A. Temporary Sign Permit Applicant: Mark Steine Location: Shorewood Shopping Center. Motion carried - 5/0. MN/DOT PLANS FOR T.H. 7/CHRISTMAS LAKE ROAD INTERSECTION Whittaker said the State has submitted 5 alternatives for the Christmas Lake Road/HwY 7 intersection. Norton said none of the alternatives are agreeable to Greenwood. Stover asked when the City can comment on the proposals. Whittaker said the State will hold a Public Hearing Nov. 14th. He would like to have Norton comment on the plans. ELECTION CANVAS Whittaker asked if the Council wants to meet earlier on Nov. 8 for the election canvas. The Council said no. STOP WORK WATERFORD III PLANS Whittaker said there has been no deposit for Engineering fees from Sherman-Boosalis yet. The staff said that no work should start until the funds are deposited and he had ordered OSM to stop work on the plans & specs. He said a Spring construction start may not be possible without this deposit. Whittaker also advised the Council he would be late for the Nov. 13, 1990 meeting as he had a meeting at the MJHS at 7:00 P.M. ADJOURNMENT Brancel moved, Gagne seconded, to adjourn the meeting at 11:05 P.M. Motion carried - 5/0 RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED Katie Snyder Recording Secretary ADMINISTRATOR/CLERK LAURENCE E. WHITTAKER 1()