043096 CC Joint WS
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MAY-07-1996 14:08
CITY OF EXCELSIOR
612 474 6300 P.02
City of Excelsior
Joint Council Work Session
With Council Representatives
from the Cities of
Deephaven, Greenwood,
Shorewood, and Tonka Bay
April 30, 1996
Minutes
The Joint Council Work Session Meeting of Tuesday, April 30, 1996 was called to
order by Acting Mayor Stark at 7:30 p.m. Councilmembers present were: Bratland,
Murphy, Selseth, and Acting Mayor Stark. Absent was: Mayor Anderson. Also present
were: City Manager Zieman, Fire Chief Mahaffey, Assistant Fire Chief Hoo, and
Recorder Johnson.
Representatives in attendance from Deephaven were: Councilmembers Brown
and Raymond, Mayor Bennis, and City Administrator Larson. Representatives in
attendance from Tanka Bay were: Councilmembers Johnson, Keller, LaBelle, and
Sasanfar, Mayor Haug, City Administrator Wussow, and Judd Mowry, resident. No
representatives were in attendance from either the City of Shorewood or the City of
Greenwood.
Acting Mayor Stark read a letter from James C. HUInl, Shorewood City
Administrator, stating the Shorewood City Council had reviewed the Excelsior Fire
Department's proposed vehicle purchase and felt the Fire Department had done an
excellent job in researching and presenting the material, commended the Excelsior City
Council on their long range equipment replacement schedule which did. not require
borrowing, and stated they support the actions so no one will be in attendance this
evening as they do not have any further questions.
Acting Mayor Stark introduced Fire Chief Mahaffey. Chief Mahaffey welcomed
everyone for coming this evening and stated how the Fire Department appreciated the
opportunity to present their proposed purchase to them. He stated Assistant Chief Hoo
would be doing the actual presentation.
Assistant Chief Hoo welcomed and thanked everyone for coming. He stated he
had been a member of the Department for 26 years. He stated a Committee was
formed in 1990 to look at the replacement of the 1969 pumper. Research was done on
what type of equipment was needed, investigation was done on what types of vehicle
were available that would meet their needs, and specifications were prepared. He stated
the communities have grown considerably over the years and their needs have changed.
Single family homes are being built larger, have different structural designs, have steep
roofs which are hard to reach, lightweight truss designs and constmction, vaulted ceilings,
etc. He stated with this type of construction it has become very difficult to access these
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MAY-07-1996 14:09
CITY OF EXCELSIOR
612 474 6300 P.03
Minutes - City of Excelsior
Joint Counell Work Session
April 30, 1996
Page 2
roofs to ventilate them properly. He stated with the new construction fire moves faster
in a shorter period of time, as there is less mass and support so it bums faster. He
stated firefighters must ventilate the roof before they can enter the house to do search
and rescue, or fight the fire. Venting the roof is not only a safety measure for the
firefighters but almost minimizes the damage as it helps contain the fire so it doesn't
spread as fast. The Committee's goal was to look at vehicles that would best get the job
done, and would also present the safest way for firefighters to do their job.
He stated the Committee brought various vehicles into each community to check
for versatility and accessibility. He stated most vehicles were too large in size and could
not be brought into a number of the areas serviced. The Committee also looked into
what was available through Mutual Aid and found most of the vehicles would not be able
to access many of the areas due to their size and response time for most would be
approximately 15 to 20 minutes.
Hoo reported on some of the features of the 65 foot Tele-Squirt and explained
how this vehicle could benefit the service areas and the Department. He gave
comparisons between the Department's current pumpers and the Tele-Squirt, and
between the number of firefighters needed to run the current pumpers versus the Tele-
Squirt. He stated the Tete-Squirt was not only good for today but would help address
future needs as well. He stated the Fire Department and other governing agencies are
always dealing with technology and trying to find the best and safest way to fight fires.
He stated consequences to firefighters could be devastating if a building was not vented
properly and quickly.
He reported the Committee had presented their findings to the entire Fire
Department and all approved of the recommended vehicle.
Hoo gave a comparison in prices between a new pumper and the Tele-Squirt. He
stated the ISO evaluated the Departnlent's equipment in both 1977 and 1995 and
recommended the Department's equipment include a telesquirting vehicle. He reviewed
what vehicles the Department currently has and the Capital Equipment Replacement
Plan Document as to proposed purchases and funding over the years.
Acting Mayor Stark stated the Fire Department had previously made the
presentation to the Excelsior City Council, but the Council had not fonnally acted on or
approved the purchase. He asked for questions or input from the other participants.
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MAY-07-1996 14:10
CITY OF EXCELSIOR
612 474 6300 P.04
Minutes - City of Excelsior
Joint Council Work Session
April 30, 1996
Page 3
Councilmember Brown asked if firefighters would need to be trained on the new
vehicle and if evetyone would be able to operate it. Hoo stated one of the features of
the Tele-Squirt was the simplicity of operation and how all firefighters will be required to
be trained on the vehicle so everyone could operate it.
Councilmember Brown asked if the operator at the top of the ladder would be in
communication with ground personnel and inquired as to who maneuvers the ladder.
Hoo stated the operator would be in communication with ground personnel. He stated
ground personnel actually maneuvers the ladder, but that the person at the top of the
ladder would have partial operation.
Mayor Bennis stated he had some concerns with accessing the structure from the
street as so many homes are so far back from the street and asked if maneuverability
around all the trees was a concern. Hoo stated consideration was given to both items.
He stated some homes would be accessed from the street, and some will need to be
accessed from the driveway. He stated the vehicle is relatively small and compact, and
driveways are relatively long. He stated nothing is 100% and that this vehicle would not
totally replace ground ladders.
Mayor Bennis stated with the Tele-Squirt being the first truck out, he had
concerns with: what should happen if hydraulics give out. how this vehicle would carry
less water than a regular pumper, and how Deephaven is at a disadvantage as it does not
have hydrants. He stated a pumper truck costs under $200,000 and therefore two trucks
could be purchased versus one. He stated he also had concerns that less firefighters are
needed to operate the Tele-squirt versus a pumper which would meaD less firefighters
responding.
Hoo stated there are times when less manpower is available such as during the
day. He stated all fire departments fight this same problem. He stated the Tele-Squirt
would give the capability to fight fires when less firefighters are available. He stated the
same number of firefighters would still respond regardless of which vehicle was sent. He
stated the hydraulics on the Tele-Squirt has a long track record with very little repairs
needed and how they would always like to have more water, but more water decreases
your maneuverability drastically.
Zieman stated one big difference between the pumper truck and Tele-Squirt is
the ability to vent and rescue people quickly. He stated it is a safety factor and the
major issue is to save lives and property.
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MAY-07-1996 14:10
612 474 6300 P.05
CITY OF EXCELSIOR
Minutes - City of Excelsior
Joint Council Work Session
April 30. 1996
Page 4
Councilmember Keller asked how much water the pumpers have now. Hoo
reported on how much water each pumper currently carries, and how other pumper
trucks would be following immediately behind the Tele-Squirt.
Mayor Bennis asked what would happen if the fire was in the back of the house,
how would the Tete-Squirt benefit. Hoo stated it would still give them access to the roof
for venting to help contain the fire and minimize damage.
Mayor Haug asked why the Department would dispose of the 1.969 pumper for
$11.000 if the Department needed more access to extra water. Hoo stated there was not
room to store the vehicle and that the $11,000 was the current market value for the
pumper. Mayor Haug asked how many miles the vehicle had on it. Hoo stated only a
little over 10,000, which did not reflect the numerous man hours the vehicle has been in
use.
Councilmember Keller asked if concerns with the boom would be addressed
through training. Councilmember Bratland stated every firefighter would be required to
be trained on the new vehicle.
Councilmember Sasanfar asked where some of the areas were that the Tele-Squirt
would be beneficial. Hoo described areas in which the vehicle would definitely be
beneficial. such as commercial buildings and the Plaza.
City Administrator Wussow asked if the Council had approved anything on the
vehicle as of yet because the Capital Equipment Replacement Document reflected the
Tele-Squirt purchase and the Document had been adopted by the Excelsior City Council
on March 18. 1996.
Acting Mayor Stark stated that was only a long range planning document to show
how much money there was, where money was proposed to come from, and what
purchases were proposed to be made in the years to come. He stated the Council has
not authorized the purchase of this vehicle yet. Councilmember Murphy stated the
Council wanted to show the cities where the dollars were for larger purchases. City
Administrator Wussow stated it also identifies what the City is expecting as far as
contributions from each of the cities over the years.
Mayor Bennis asked what types of areas could be a problem for the Tele-Squirt.
Hoo stated mainly areas with overhead obstructions. Mayor Bennis asked what
percentage of the time this would be a factor. Hoo stated maybe 30% of the time.
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CITY OF EXCELSIOR
MAY-07-1996 14:11
612 474 6300 P.06
Minutes - City of Excelsior
Joint Council Work Session
April 30, 1996
Page 5
Mayor Bennis stated the Excelsior City Council should further investigate this issue
before making a decision.
Zieman stated it could still be used as a pumper and that safety was the main
issue here. Councilmember Keller stated buying the Tele-Squirt is almost like
purchasing an insurance policy.
Councilmember Raymond asked what kind of responses this vehicle would be
used for and if there were areas where you could not access. Hoo stated it would not
be used for medicals, and that he thought maybe 5% of the area would not be able to be
accessed with this vehicle, but how those areas could not be accessed by a regular
pumper either.
Mayor Bennis asked if the Tete-Squirt was higher in height. Hoo stated the
overall height would not be a factor.
Councilmember Raymond asked if it was necessary to have the fire siren sound.
Hoo stated it is used to let firefighters know when there is a call during those times
when it is not beneficial for them to have their pager on. and also by sounding the siren
people are aware there is a call so they tend to watch for firefighters with their lights on
so they can move over to let them pass.
Councilmember LaBelle asked if the Tele-Squirt was the newest in technology.
Hoo stated basically yes, it was introduced in 1990 and addresses the problems the
Department has with maneuverability and accessibility.
Councilmember Sasanfar asked how much was in the Capital Equipment Fund at
this time. Hoo explained how it is shown on the Capital Equipment Replacement
Document. Zieman stated how the document incorporates the 5 year contract proposal
which was accepted by all the cities when the Fire Contract was executed.
Mayor Haug asked if it would take up to two years to get the new vehicle. Hoo
stated it would probably be here between 12 and 18 months after it is ordered.
Mayor Bennis stated that by purchasing the Tele-Squirt it .would run the Capital
Equipment Replacement Fund dangerously low. He asked what would happen if
something major came up and there were no funds available like what happened several
yeaTS ago when the air packs needed to be updated. Bratland stated the proposal was
for 5 years and would need to be updated and altered if that were to happen.
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)> MAY-07-1996 14: 12
CITY OF EXCELSIOR
612 474 6300 P.07
Minutes - City of Excelsior
Joint Council Work Session
April 30, 1996
Page 6
City Administrator Wussow stated the original plan had equipment certificates
incorporated into it and the new one does not. He stated there would always be the
option to purchase equipment certificates if the problem did arise.
Mayor Haug stated he was not aware of the fact that the size of apparatus would
prohibit a majority of the mutual aid departments from getting into a number of the
service areas and was also not aware response time would probably be 15 to 20 minutes.
Acting Mayor Stark asked if there were any more questions. He stated Excelsior
is at the point where they would like to receive written input from each city on the
vehicle purchase within the next two to three weeks so Excelsior could move forward on
their decision.
Couneilmember Keller stated he appreciated the time that was given to the cities
regarding this purchase. He stated it had been a leaming prcx:ess and very educational,
and felt the Fire Department definitely did their homework.
Acting Mayor Stark thanked everyone for coming, stating the City appreciated
their questions and comments on the proposed purchase.
Councilmember Brown asked Hoo if he had worked with or used dry hydrants.
Hoo stated he had not. Mahaffey stated he had used them out on the east coast and
found them to be very beneficial. He stated Victoria is also using them.
There being no further business Murphy moved, seconded by Bratland to adjourn
the meeting at 8:50 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
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Cheri Job on
Recording Secretary
TOTAL P.07