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081897 CC WS Min . . . , CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION MEETING MONDA Y, AUGUST 18, 1997 COUNCIL CHAMBERS 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD 7:30 P.M. MINUTES 1. CONVENE CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION Mayor Dahlberg called the meeting to order at 7:34 p.m. A. Roll Call Present: Mayor Dahlberg; Councilrnembers Garfunkel, McCarty, and O'Neill; Administrator Hurm; Planning Commission Liaison Turgeon; Police Chief Young Councilmember Stover Absent: B. Review Agenda The agenda was approved as presented. 2. DISCUSSION ON ISSUE REGARDING SNOWMOBILES IN SHOREWOOD DURING THE UPCOMING SEASON Administrator Hurm distributed updated fmancial information and explained the estimated citation revenue is approximately $3,000, resulting in a total program cost of $5,300. I. SNOWMOBILE USE ON LRT TRAIL Councilmember McCarty commented she is in favor of banning snowmobiles from the trail, but not banning them entirely from the city. Councilmember O'Neill stated he is not in favor of taking snowmobiles off the trail and putting them on the street. Councilmember Garfunkel shared the opinion of Councilmember O'Neill. Mayor Dahlberg felt snowmobile use should remain the same, however, the signage needs to be increased in size. Councilmember McCarty was confident Councilmember Stover's position would be to keep snowmobiles off of the trail. Turgeon explained citation reports from the previous season were gathered and reviewed. The information compiled relative to the citations was based on where the person receiving the citation lived. Turgeon noted approximately 10 percent of the citations were issued to Shorewood residents. It was noted citations were issued to persons residing in places such as Atlanta, Thunder Bay and St. Paul. Turgeon explained there are approximately 30 DNR citations which were not included in the document since she was not able to ascertain who received the citations. It was noted the highest percentage of violations were issued to residents of Minnetonka and Excelsior. The majority of the violations occurred in Wedgewood, on County Road 19 as well as Eureka and consisted largely of speed violations. The season violations were evenly spread among the various areas of residence. . . . CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MINUTES AUGUST 18, 1997 - PAGE 2 Turgeon recalled Officer Keller had expressed some concern relative to patrolling the trail alone. She explained Officer Keller's activity log was reviewed and it was noted approximately 50 percent of the time Officer Keller was not alone on the trail, but was accompanied by DNR officers, reserve officers, or water patrol deputies. Turgeon suggested if the status of the prior year is to be maintained, the Council will need to know how many hours Officer Keller was on the trail as well as the amount of assisted time he received from other agencies. If the amount of assisted time from other agencies does not continue to be available, it will be necessary to obtain assistance through the use of additional reserve officers in order to maintain the amount of citations which were issued during the previous season. Turgeon recalled when complaints had been discussed, two residences were singled out as the point from where complaints were received. She pointed out that although there were 20 complaints from one resident, there were 18 citations on Eureka, 3 on Smithtown and 35 on Strawberry Lane. Turgeon noted 13 complaints were received from the second resident and there were 46 citations in that area. She suggested instead of looking at this as complaining neighbors, this information indicates two very troubled areas within the city and this needs to be addressed. Turgeon proposed taking pedestrians off the trail given the speed problems and the number of citations which were issued. She did not feel this to be an appropriate location for mixed used. Mayor Dahlberg requested Turgeon take the information and compile it into a bullet point summary of the conclusions drawn from the analysis. Councilmember O'Neill felt there to be a significant amount of information missing such as the number of snowmobiles on the trail as well as the times of heavy use. Turgeon noted the DNR has determined there to be 600 to 1,000 snowmobiles present on the trail on a given weekend. She pointed out there are 229 registered snowmobilers in Shorewood. Councilmember O'Neill asked what percentage of the snowmobilers are violating the rules. Turgeon was unsure whether this would be information which could be obtained. Mayor Dahlberg asked if the patrol cars have a tendency to pick up snowmobilers who are speeding at intersections and Chief Young noted this to be the case. Councilmember O'Neill suggested getting beyond the point where snowmobiles will be on the trail or not and if they are going to continue to be allowed on the trail, then a decision needs to be made relative to monitoring and enforcement of the situation. Turgeon stated manpower and cost are concerns. Councilmember O'Neill noted Chief Young had suggested it would be less expensive to utilize overtime hours versus hiring an additional officer. Hurm noted staff would need direction by September 15th due to the time constraints relative to submitting the required permit. Councilmember O'Neill commented it is evident when speed traps are used, there is a reduction in violations and he felt this frrst year of enforcement on the trail would have an effect. Mayor Dahlberg noted that while safety is a concern, he did not have an overwhelming sense that mixed use was a larger safety issue than mixed uses on the roadways. He did not feel mixed use on the trail to be any more or less dangerous than having pedestrian or bicycle traffic on Smithtown Road. Councilmember McCarty felt the difference to be that Smithtown is a road and has traditionally been used for mixed use. She stated there is a great difference between a lO-foot wide trail which has been used for passive use and is then opened to motorized vehicles for three months as opposed to a road where people regularly walk and bike for 12 months out of the year. CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MINUTES AUGUST 18, 1997 - PAGE 3 . Councilmember McCarty asked if there is a perception from anyone in Shorewood that there is a problem with mixed use on the trail, is the Council prepared to remove pedestrian traffic from the trail and allow snowmobiles the use of the trail. Turgeon felt Officer Keller should be a reference point noting he has commented he does not feel safe on the trail. Councilmember O'Neill pointed out Officer Keller's concerns were relative to encountering a situation of multiple persons where he would be alone to handle the situation. Mayor Dahlberg stated he is not in a position at this time to prohibit mixed use of the trail. Councilmember O'Neill felt there to be a fair amount of prejudice relative to this subject. Councilmember McCarty pointed out the people who received citations were not from the Shorewood area and are using the trail as a pathway to the lake. Councilmember McCarty felt a close look would need to be taken of the amount of officer time involved as well as the $5,300 which was expended. Mayor Dahlberg stated he does not want to argue that one form of recreation is second class to another. With regard to mixed use on the trail, he did express concern relative to the trail just as he has concern relative to mixed use on the streets which potentially creates a hazard to both young and old. Mayor Dahlberg felt a side trail to be a potentially viable option. In the meantime he felt it to be an extreme position to eliminate snow shoeing and cross country skiing uses. Mayor Dahlberg stated he would not be in favor of discontinuing mixed use this year, however, he would be willing to reconsider the matter next year. . Turgeon noted input has never been obtained from people who live along the LRT. She noted people on Smithtown Road are opposed to a trail for passive use, yet the Council is advocating motorized use for residents along the LRT whose homes are no farther away from the trail. Councilmember Garfunkel felt the difference to be that one trail is already in existence. Mayor Dahlberg felt the residents along the LRT should be surveyed to obtained their input. Dana George expressed concern that various members of the Snowmobile Task Force have provided input and information to the Council. He noted the Task Force was in force for approximately a year and a half, a consultant was utilized and he felt that at some point in time, the Council needs to make a decision. Mr. George questioned why the Task Force was disbanded and suggested reactivating the group to gather the information the Council is looking for. Councilmember O'Neill felt if people are uncomfortable with snowmobile use on the trail, they can make the decision to not utilize the trail. Councilmember Garfunkel noted his agreement. Councilmember O'Neill asked how great an issue safety is as opposed to people on the trail being annoyed with the noise and speed. He felt safety may be argued as a way in which to win the dispute. He did not feel mixed use to be any more unsafe than allowing bicycles and children on Smithtown Road. Mayor Dahlberg asked for input from the Council relative to the Snowmobile Task Force. Councilmember McCarty felt a simple survey of the residents living along the LRT could be done. She felt the Task Force did a wonderful job and compiled an incredible wealth of information. Councilmember McCarty did not feel the Task Force would need to be reestablished. She stated all of the necessary information is contained in the report. In addition, the majority and minority positions are summarized in the report. . A. Permit . . . CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MINUTES AUGUST 18, 1997 - PAGE 4 Question 1: Would Council make any changes for the 97-98 Winter Use Permit of the LRT trail? It was decided no changes would be made to the list of specified uses. B . Other LRT Related Concerns Question 1: Should the City accept a recommendation by Police Chief Rick Young to open the winter use of the trail in Shorewood on November 15? It was noted the season start date in 1996/1997 was December 1. Turgeon noted the State trails open the season on December 1. Chief Young felt many people violated the start of the season because some trails open on November 15th and he suggested the trails be opened on the earlier date to avoid confusion. Chief Young noted the State trails begin grooming and maintenance on December 1, however, if people are out using the trails prior to that date, nothing would be done about this. Councilmember Garfunkel felt if appropriate signage were posted on the trail, this would alleviate the problem with snowmobilers being unaware of the season opening date. Chief Young felt people need to become better informed than they were in the previous year that the season opens on December 1. Councilmembers Garfunkel and McCarty were not in favor of using an earlier date. Councilmember O'Neill agreed with Chief Young and felt it would be appropriate to open the season on November 15th. He stated this does not simply affect the trail, but would be the citywide start of the season, therefore, snowmobiles could not be used anywhere in Shorewood prior to December 1 regardless of any snowfall there might be. Chief Young stated the earliest start date would be November 15th. This is the date Hennepin County turns use of the trail over to the City. The State and the DNR officially begin the snowmobile season on December 1st. Turgeon felt if the date were to be changed this year, it would add another inconsistency. Councilmember Garfunkel was in favor of retaining the December 1 opening date and felt this needs to be posted very clearly. Mayor Dahlberg noted there was not sufficient support on the Council to change the opening date. Question 2: Should barricades with signs stating "Trail Closed" be placed on the trail until the opeD date? Relative to barricades, Councilmember O'Neill felt these would interfere with snow shoers, skiers and walkers. Councilmember Garfunkel stated he would be in favor of signage, but was opposed to using a barrier. Mayor Dahlberg requested the percentage of citations which came from people who violated the opening of the season. Turgeon noted it to be 28 percent. It was decided clear signage would be used rather than barriers. CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MINUTES AUGUST 18, 1997 - PAGE 5 Question 3: Should the City begin working with neighbors of the LRT Trail to . identify places for evergreen buffers? Turgeon noted the concern of the Task Force was relative to the soil conditions and whether the soil would be conducive to placing buffer trees. Councilmember O'Neill felt the residents could plant trees on the back of their property as a buffer. It was noted the area proposed for the buffer would be the right of way. Councilmember O'Neill also expressed concern relative to the cost. Mayor Dahlberg noted the Council did not appear to be interested in pursuing this option. II. ISSUES A . Signage - This issue was previously discussed. B . Lake Access Question 1: Should anything further be done to improve access from Lake Minnetonka to the LRT Trail west of Timber Lane? . Turgeon explained the Task Force was concerned with the topography at this access area and felt it may be better to correct this area permanently to allow for access to the lake. She reviewed the various options which had been considered. Hurm stated the various agencies have not been consulted to determine whether this would be permitted. Councilmember O'Neill suggested exploring the options which are available. Mayor Dahlberg felt there to be support to move the sign and explore the possibility of building a ramp or reconstructing the area. Question 2: Should anything further be done for additional Lake access? There was no support for additional lake access noting there is nothing that can be done to address this issue. Turgeon listed the options which had been investigated. C . Freeman Park Question 1: Should any trail grooming be done in Freeman Park for cross-country skiing? McCarty stated grooming the trail for cross country skiing is unnecessary since a cross country skier can make a trail very easily. D . Policing and Enforcement Question 1: Does the City Council feel the hours of enforcement should be increased or decreased? . Chief Young stated the amount of hours is dependent on the amount of snowfall. Officer Keller will be on the trail as often as possible. There was no support for decreasing the hours. . CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MINUTES AUGUST 18, 1997 - PAGE 6 . Councilmember Garfunkel did not think a specified number of hours could be set. Mayor Dahlberg asked if this is a management decision which would be better left to the police department on a daily basis. Chief Young pointed out the amount of hours spent on the trail is dependent on the amount of snowfall. Councilmember O'Neill felt Officer Keller was initially hired for increased patrolling on the streets for enforcement of the speed limit. He questioned whether complaints relative to speeding are reduced in winter. Chief Young stated the complaints decrease during the winter months and if the number of speeders decrease, he felt this would be weather related. Mayor Dahlberg commented if there were no snow through mid January, then Officer Keller would not be out on the trail. He felt it would be a day to day management issue based on the amount of snow which is present. It was decided not to increase or decrease patrol hours. Councilmember McCarty would like the level of enforcement to stay the same or increase and if there is a problem on the trail in December, then the hours should increase. Councilmember O'Neill noted the cost would need to be considered and this will have to be taken into consideration when discussing increased enforcement relative to speed in Shorewood and the possibility of adding overtime hours to address this issue. Turgeon felt Officer Keller's time could be coordinated with other agencies such as the DNR and the Water Patrol. Chief Young explained the Sheriff will come out, but only until such time as the lake freezes. Once that freezing occurs, their work is on the lake. . Mayor Dahlberg felt the 182 hours utilized in the previous year should be a target for this year given the same conditions, however, other enforcement issues in the city need to be considered and these needs will need to be balanced. Councilmember McCarty stated an hour limit cannot be set given the unpredictability of the amount of snow there will be. Question 6: Would you like to expand the enforcement program? Turgeon questioned why two snowmobiles would be necessary when there is only one officer available. Chief Young noted there is not a back up officer assigned for the Shorewood trails, however, there had been discussions relative to paying officers overtime to provide that back up. Hurm stated an alternative would be to approach the fire department relative to the use of their snowmobile. The consensus of the Council was not to raise this issue relative to a discussion of the overall enforcement budget in Shorewood. Question 2: Should a request to increase snowmobile related fines be submitted to the Hennepin County Judge? Mayor Dahlberg was in favor of increasing the fines, particularly for hazardous violations such as speed. Chief Young explained an increase in fines would not be approved just for the City of Shorewood, however, he felt it would be worthwhile to inquire and noted he would be in favor of an increase. Chief Young recommended a minimum fine of $100. The Council requested Chief Young work with staff in researching this matter. . . . . CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MINUTES AUGUST 18, 1997 - PAGE 7 Question 3: Should the communications approach change from the concept of "Zero Tolerance" to "Strict Enforcement of the Law" to reduce conflicts of interpretation? Chief Young suggested the concept of zero tolerance be changed to strict enforcement of the law. He explained it would be impossible to write a citation on a violation of 1 mph. He noted it to be a communication issue. Ingrid Schaff was present and noted snowmobilers who were traveling at 10, 15 and 20 mph in excess of the speed limit were given warnings rather than citations. In one instance, she related a snowmobiler was traveling 30 mph in excess of the speed limit and was given a warning because she was driving a new machine. Ms. Schaff stated the speed limit needs to be enforced. She commented no one would expect a citation to be issued for a violation of 1 mph over the speed limit. Mayor Dahlberg suggested the Council adopt a policy which would specify that anyone exceeding the speed limit by 7 mph or more be ticketed. Chief Young stated the current policy is to issue a citation for violations in excess of 10 mph since this is what the judges have stated. C:ouncilmem1;>er McCarty did not want to see people exceeding the speed limit by 15 mph being gIven a warnmg. Councilmember O'Neill proposed lowering the speed limit on the trail. Councilmember Garfunkel stated there is no guarantee a lower speed limit will actually reduce violations on the trail. He commented a limit needs to be set and then enforced. Councilmember Garfunkel remarked if the speed limit is unreasonable, this will increase the amount of violations. Mayor Dahlberg stated he would support a 20 mph limit utilizing the policy that anything 5 mph or more over the speed limit would be enforced. Councilmember McCarty pointed out there is officer time which is involved in appearing in court. Turgeon suggested issuing warnings for those exceeding the speed limit by 10 mph. Councilmember O'Neill felt this should be addressed with all five councilmembers in attendance and Councilmember McCarty noted her agreement. Christine Lizee was present and related the trail to a no wake zone such as the channels on Lake Minnetonka and felt the snowmobilers could be limited to 10 mph for the portion of trail they travel prior to reaching the lake where increased speeds are permitted. Mayor Dahlberg asked if a 10 mph speed limit would be extreme. Dana George felt 10 mph to be unreasonable for 2.5 miles of trail. Mayor Dahlberg also questioned whether decreasing the speed would be setting this program up for failure because people will be constantly violating the speed limit. Mayor Dahlberg commented the success of the program lies in aggressive enforcement and the signal this sends to everyone. He suggested leaving things as they are with continued aggressive enforcement and the question which remains is at what speed the ticketing will begin. Councilmembers McCarty and O'Neill felt this should be discussed when Councilmember Stover is able to be present. Councilmember Garfunkel felt the speed limit should be set at the speed the Council would like to see on the trail and then that speed limit needs to be enforced. Councilmember O'Neill would prefer to set the speed limit at 10 mph, but would agree to 15. Councilmember McCarty noted her agreement. . CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MINUTES AUGUST 18, 1997 - PAGE 8 . Turgeon pointed out the ordinance calls for a speed limit of 10 mph on the streets and Chief Young noted ticketing begins at 20 mph. It was agreed to change from zero tolerance to strict enforcement of the law. Question 4: Should the City of Shorewood Snow Patrol be disbanded? Relative to the Snow Patrol, Hurm noted their function has been education rather than enforcement. He commented if the need for education arises, Southwest Trails could be consulted. It was the consensus of the Council there is no need to retain the assistance of the Snow Patrol. Question 5: Would you like any additional reports or different data gathered for the upcoming season? Chief Young asked if there is more data which is needed. Turgeon felt a more user friendly format would be useful, however, there is sufficient data available for review. E. CONTINUED USE OF SNOWMOBILES Hurm noted the issue of a side trail and possible grant funds which may be available have not been investigated. Councilmember McCarty noted her understanding the side trail issue was a dead issue. Turgeon noted that to be her understanding as well. Question 1: How will the Council determine if snowmobiles will be continued to . be used in the City? Mayor Dahlberg commented this issue will be decided by a vote. Councilmember McCarty pointed out it was the philosophy of past Council that this issue would be re-evaluated on a yearly basis. She noted there are many variables such as citation reports which would cause the Council to re- evaluate the program. Question 2: Do you want annual reports, and each year make a decision OR, after 2 or 3 years of data gathering, reevaluate the issue of. snowmobiling? The consensus was if a majority of the Council wants to re-evaluate this issue, it will be reviewed. Question 3: Should the Park or Planning Commission have a role in program evaluation? It was noted the Park Commission may be called upon to review the permit application. . ... f J-- . CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MINUTES AUGUST 18, 1997 - PAGE 9 F. COMMUNICATION . Question 1: Should additional training and communication be done? Signage was determined to be the most important issue and was addressed earlier in the meeting. The consensus of the Council was not to participate in additional training and communication. Councilmember O'Neill did not feel there is a need to encourage people to file complaints. If a situation arises, calls should be made to 911. Turgeon did not feel 911 should be tied up for snowmobile complaints, however, she also noted she had been reprimanded for calling South Lake Police Department directly. Chief Young stated callers should be directed to call 911. Mayor Dahlberg felt there to be a general need to educate the public on calling 911 on any type of emergency which arises. Question 2: Does the Council want to have a public hearing on snowmobiling in the City? Hurm inquired whether the Council would want to hold a public hearing in the event the speed limit on the trail is reduced. Councilmember O'Neill felt this matter could simply be added to an agenda. III. 1997-1998 PROGRAM IMPLEMENTATION Hurm explained the implementation plan indicates the program will be run similar to the way it was conducted in the prior year with several exceptions. The councilmembers reviewed the . implementation plan and there were no questions raised. 3. ADJOURNMENT Mayor Dahlberg expressed appreciation to those who attended the work session. McCarty moved, Garfunkel seconded to adjourn the City Council Work Session Meeting at 10:07 p.m. Motion passed 5/0. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Cheryl Wallat, Recording Secretary TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial ATTEST: ~ , MAYOR .