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111297 CC/Planning Comm Joint WS Min . . . CITY OF SHOREWOOD CITY COUNCIL/PLANNING COMMISSION JOINT WORK SESSION TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 12, 1997 MINUTES CALL TO ORDER COUNCIL CHAMBERS 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD 7:15 P.M. Planning Chair Pisula called the meeting to order at 7:22 p.m. ROLL CALL Present: Mayor Dahlberg; Councilmembers O'Neill and Garfunkel; Planning Chair Pisula; Commissioners Borkon and Champa; Administrator Hurm; City Attorney Dean; Planning Director Nielsen PLANNING COMMISSION/CITY COUNCIL JOINT SESSION Chair Pisula addressed the issue of the election and stated after the election is over comes the difficult task of translating ideas, visions and dreams into action. Plans are implemented in an effort to carry out the vision of the Council through documents and resources which will permit the various commissions and departments to be working with the same documents and with a common purpose to achieve goals which everyone understands. Chair Pisula explained the Planning Commission would like to work with the Council in identifying the areas of concern to ensure they are carried out in policy. He stated the Planning Commission is asking for clear direction from Council relative to their goals for the City. Chair Pisula suggested a possible agenda and noted the issues of green space as well as the PUD policy should be added to land use concerns. Mayor Dahlberg noted his own policy relative to density is to at all times be consistent with the zoning that is on the map without increase, possibly reversing some PUD areas. Commissioner Champa explained this meeting came about as a result of the recent request for senior housing which was denied by the City Council. He noted the Commission had applied the current ordinances as well as the Comprehensive Plan and recommended approval of the request. The Council ultimately denied the request for senior housing and this has prompted the Commission to ask for direction from the Council as to their vision and goals for the City. Mayor Dahlberg did not feel the disagreement to be a negative point. Commissioner Champa noted his agreement. Chair Pisula and Commissioner Borkon did not feel the senior housing issue to be the reason for the meeting. Councilmember O'Neill noted there had also been concerns relative to Mr. Velikson's request for a restaurant at the Waterford Plaza in which the Planning Commission recommended approval and the Council denied the request. Commissioner Borkon commented the Planning Commission would like to support the philosophy of the Council. She felt the way to accomplish this would be for the Council to make changes to the resources the Commission has available and is compelled to use as their guidelines. Mayor Dahlberg noted his belief the law does not speak for itself, but is interpreted. CITY COUNCIL/PLANNING COMMISSION JOINT WORK SESSION NOVEMBER 12, 1997 PAGE 2 . Mayor Dahlberg noted in principle it could be impossible in a statutory Plan A city to arrive at a systematically documented clear policy given the need for a super majority vote in order to amend the Comprehensive Plan and the zoning ordinances. Commissioner Borkon felt this to be the Council's process and stated the Planning Commission is willing to assist the Council in achieving consensus. Councilmember O'Neill did not feel it would be possible to proceed through the agenda given the fact only three councilmembers were in attendance. Chair Pisula agreed, however, he felt it to be up to Council to design their own process relative to giving these issues closure and providing the Planning Commission with some direction. Commissioner Borkon noted the full Planning Commission would be willing to meet with the full Council in an attempt to reach a solution. Commissioner Champa noted the Planning Commission is not expecting direction on these issues immediately, however, it would be the Commission's request that the councilmembers in attendance take these issues back to the full Council for their discussion. At that time, the Commission and the Council could meet again to discuss the direction the Council would like the Commission to take. Mayor Dahlberg noted there are aggressive work sessions currently scheduled to address many of the concerns which have been raised. Chair Pisula explained the purpose of the various Planning Commissioners meeting with Mayor Dahlberg and Councilmembers O'Neill and Garfunkel was to communicate to the Council the need the Commission sees for making their tools mesh with the vision and the policy. . Mayor Dahlberg noted one of the neighborhoods has contacted him and expressed an interest in pursuing a senior housing plan for their area and would like to establish criteria for this type of plan. He felt it may be appropriate for the Commission to investigate this matter. Commissioner Borkon expressed concern that a potential request may not be recommended for approval by the Planning Commission if the ordinances and Comprehensive Plan do not reflect what is being requested. Chair Pisula noted in the case of variances, the Planning Commission follows a strict interpretation of those types of ordinances, recognizing the implications and the fact that the Council has the capability in many cases of finding a variance. He felt it appropriate that Council do this, given their accountability to the voters. He noted at times the Council has a different perspective than the Planning Commission. Mayor Dahlberg commented the Planning Commission does a good job of interpreting the rules and regulations of the ordinances and how they apply to a specific situation. He noted the Council attempts to do the same thing. Mayor Dahlberg commented it is not a negative when the Commission and the Council disagree on an issue. Commissioner Borkon inquired whether the Commission's guidelines are to be the ordinances and the Comprehensive Plan as well as the City's philosophy. Nielsen felt if there were routine disagreement between the Commission and the Council a problem may be indicated. Mayor Dahlberg stated this may simply reflect a difference in agendas. It was noted the majority of the recommendations made by the Commission have been approved by the Council with the exception of municipal water and senior housing. . . . . CITY COUNCILIPLANNING COMMISSION JOINT WORK SESSION NOVEMBER 12, 1997 PAGE 3 Attorney Dean commented the Planning Commission's responsibility, in a technical way, is to apply the Comprehensive Plan as well as the land use regulations in a black and white manner to reach a result. He felt in rare instances, such as senior housing, there are critical issues of interpretation which need to be factored in. Attorney Dean felt the Comprehensive Plan and the zoning ordinances should be reworked in such a way there may be a broader based consensus on the Council. Commissioner Borkon felt the Comprehensive Plan and the ordinances should reflect the philosophies of the Council to enable the Commission to recommend things the Council is going to feel comfortable with. Councilmember O'Neill felt it to be irrelevant whether the Comprehensive Plan is changed or not. He felt the Commission should understand the Council may not change the Comprehensive Plan and felt the Commission should adjust to the personalities on the Council. Councilmember O'Neill did not feel there would be 100 percent agreement on the Council to changes in the Comprehensive Plan. Councilmember Garfunkel did not feel it would necessarily be a good thing for all five of the councilmembers to share the same philosophies. Councilmember O'Neill felt the Planning Commission to be rigid in following the Comprehensive Plan. He also felt the Council was at fault for not providing leadership to the Commission. Chair Pisula commented the Commission must enforce the rules which are in place and the Commission would like the rules which are in place to be consistent with the philosophy of the Council and there needs to be a common understanding of the rules. Mayor Dahlberg felt possibly there should be a reform of the statutory Plan A City in which a simple majority would be utilized since it would be easier to attain a simple majority. Councilmember O'Neill did not feel it would be possible to get four councilmembers to agree to a change and then live by it. Commissioner Borkon noted it has happened in the past. Nielsen pointed out in the instance of a 3/2 vote of the Council, the Planning Commission may be able to arrive at a compromise which would bring in a fourth or fifth member of the Council. Mayor D~berg felt the Commission may be invaluable in helping the Council discover a comprormse. Commissioner Borkon inquired when the City Council makes decisions whether or not they can act independent of the Comprehensive Plan and existing ordinances. Attorney Dean stated they cannot disregard those documents and their decisions must be rooted in those resources. Thus far, he believes this has been the case. Commissioner Champa asked for each councilmember's position relative to the Planning Commission's strict adherence to the zoning ordinances in the case of variance requests. Councilmember O'Neill noted his views are not as strict. Mayor Dahlberg believes this to be a property rights issue. Chair Pisula felt on issues such as density and zoning, that the Planning Commission and the City Council are utilizing the same guidelines. He felt it to be up to Council to work together to achieve this. Chair Pisula noted the resources which affect the Commission are the Comprehensive Plan, the ordinances, the zoning map and state law. . . . .. , .. CITY COUNCILIPLANNING COMMISSION JOINT WORK SESSION NOVEMBER 12, 1997 PAGE 4 Councilmember O'Neill noted there has been a suggestion made by three of the counciImembers that a regular work session be scheduled each month. Commissioner Champa commented on the upcoming commission appointments and noted the three commissioners who are up for reappointment have extensive experience which is very useful for the City. Chair Pisula suggested when controversial issues arise and the philosophies of the Council have not been worked out that there be a commitment to work things through and get things done. He questioned whether there is a need for a moratorium on land use issues. It was suggested there be a moratorium on development. Mayor Dahlberg felt this to be an extreme move, however, if developers expect a response on their time schedule rather than that of the Council, then he would support a six month moratorium on all development. Councilmembers O'Neill and Garfunkel were not in favor of this. Nielsen noted there have been many areas, such as lot splits, in which there has not been disagreement between the Council and the Commission and a moratorium would be extreme at this point in time. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 8:46 p.m. RESPECTFULL Y SUBMITTED, Cheryl Wallat Recording Secretary TimeSaver Off-Site Secretarial, Inc. ATTEST: