050399 CC WS MinCITY OF SHOREWOOD CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
MONDAY, MAY 3,1999 IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING
RECONVENED BOARD OF
REVIEW
MINUTES
1. CONVENE CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MEETING
Mayor Love called the meeting to order at 8:35 p.m.
A. Roll Call
Present: Mayor Love; Councilmembers Stover, Garfunkel, Lizee and Zerby;
Planning Director Brad Nielsen; City Engineer Larry Brown
B. Review Agenda
The agenda was accepted as presented.
• Councilmembers Garfunkel moved, Stover seconded, to approve the agenda as
presented. Motion was approved unanimously.
2. DISCUSSION ON COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
A. Transportation Chapter
Planning Director Nielsen asked Council for direction on content of this Chapter for the
Planning Commission to review. He pointed out that both this Chapter and the
Community Facilities Chapter has been subject to review by the Park Commission
because of the inclusion of parks and trails. The Park Commission has made suggestions
and a recommendation for approval of changes made to date on these Chapters. He
referred to a memorandum dated April 9, 1999 listing those changes.
Planning Director Nielsen referred to a sheet highlighting areas of concern within this
Chapter. He noted the Park Commission added a goal relative to the trail system, which
has been incorporated in the Chapter. He asked them to consider the section on streets,
which he noted needs to be updated because it includes areas that needed further study
that have since been resolved. These areas include: Galpin Lake Road, Christmas Lake
Road, Vine Hill Road/Highway 7 and County Road 19/Smithtown intersections. He said
the Comprehensive Plan currently recommends that new streets be designed according to
• standards (24 feet wide minimum). This standards has been in existence for 20+ years.
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
. MAY 3,1999 - PAGE 2
Planning Director Nielsen noted at the last meeting, there was consensus of the Council
that curb and gutter would be required except where a developer can demonstrate that
water quality will be better without it. He felt this was a reasonable compromise. He
noted that the City would retain control with regard to requiring curb and gutter or not,
depending upon what is best in terms of water quality.
Engineer Brown noted the standard design lane for streets that is acceptable is 12 feet,
with a minimum by variance of 9 feet driving lane. This minimum does not include
shoulders.
Planning Director Nielsen noted that the Street Reconstruction Financing Task Force in
the late 1980s recommended that the City not necessarily widen existing roads to 24 feet.
In fact, they suggested upon reconstruction, streets be made at least 20 feet to meet fire
code, but otherwise basically be put back to current size. They also recommended streets
that neighbors did not want to have widen to meet fire code would remain at their current
width upon reconstruction.
Councilmember Stover urged Council to set aside time to discuss this issue more fully
and adopt a policy on street assessments.
• Engineer Brown stated that through the street inventory pavement management program,
they projected out that they could keep going by not doing all the reconstructs necessary,
but rather a combination of overlays and sealcoating, without an assessment policy. This
is assuming no major problems arise in the future.
Mayor Love asked if there are streets currently constructed wider than the 24' minimum
with 20 MPH limits, such as Wedgewood, would they have the ability to reduce the
amount of hard surface during a reconstruct of the roadway.
Engineer Brown explained it is not in the best interest of the City to put down more
pavement than necessary, so that issue can be looked at as it surfaces.
Planning Director Nielsen noted that the 24' design standard is for 1/z acre lots or larger,
and for smaller lot areas, a wider street is required due to the limited parking on the lot
and more on -street parking is expected.
Planning Director Nielsen noted in Shorewood there is a MSA route set up based upon
the criteria set by the State. He noted that most of the routes that appear on the MSA map
probably will never be built to MSA standards, but are shown to account for the mileage
necessary. He stated that all the money will be used in the future on roads that should be
designed to MSA standards (i.e. County Road 19/Smithtown Road intersection
improvement).
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CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
• MAY 3,1999 - PAGE 3
Planning Director Nielsen explained that the Park Commission added six new policies
under the Transportation Chapter with respect to trails reflecting the trail planning
process. They also recommended incorporating the Trail Concept Plan Map and the
Trail Planning Process, replacing the previous Trail Plan.
Councilmember Garfunkel expressed opposition to inclusion of trails along routes where
residents have expressed opposition. He felt those should be deleted from the map. He
noted that one of the main points of the trail process was the citizen input.
Planning Director Nielsen stated by allowing them to remain on the map, they are
providing a historical basis for any future considerations of placement of a trail in this
location. It is important for staff and the property owner to know what potential future
plans the City has. He felt that the trails where opposition has been voiced could be
designated as on -street segments to eliminate any future confusion.
Councilmember Zerby noted the Park Commission felt it was very important to include
this map as presented because there was much planning involved in the preparation of it,
not taking into consideration citizen input.
Mayor Love stated he was at the Park Commission meeting and heard the discussion. He
• felt the map provided a good point of discussion, perhaps bringing to light some other
problems or issues in the area. He noted he heard concern about snowmobiles and speed
along streets.
Planning Director Nielsen noted that the Park Commission did ask that the lines on the
map all be equal and not be designated with priorities. However, he added that funding is
limited and those areas where positive input has been received will be considered first.
Councilmember Lizee referred to a letter sent by the School District encouraging trails
along Smithtown Road, and noted their reasoning had nothing to do with the bussing
issue, but rather their concern was about pedestrian traffic along streets.
Planning Director Nielsen added that the Park Commission did establish criteria for the
placement of trails, one of which was along collector streets. He noted the Park
Commission, when faced with opposition to a trail, should look at the characteristics of
the road, the likelihood of the roadway ever being widened, and the traffic patterns of the
area to determine if the trail is an improbability, then the trail should be noted as such.
He suggested that language be included to stress these are only areas of consideration.
Councilmember Stover felt that the Concept Map should be included as presented.
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CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
MAY 3,1999 - PAGE 4
• Planning Director Nielsen suggested they elaborate on how the Trail Concept Plan Map is
used, emphasizing that segments shown on the map do not necessarily mean they will be
built. Council concurred that would be an appropriate next step. Planning Director
Nielsen noted they are proposing an annual review of the Comprehensive Plan process, at
which time the map could be considered also.
Mayor Love referred to the LRT and the possibility of it materializing into its intended
use.
Planning Director Nielsen explained if it were decided that the LRT will never be built,
the Park Commission has recommended that the City would continue to maintain the trail
for uses as it currently does. He added a sentence has been added back in that states "they
will monitor the effectiveness of current rules regarding snowmobiles."
B. Community Facilities Chapter
Organized Garbage Collection:
Councilmember Stover suggested that this topic be referenced in both the Community
Facilities and Transportation Chapters. She reviewed the different options past Councils
have considered with regard to this issue.
• Councilmember Lizee suggested the Council reconsider this issue.
Mayor Love stated he agreed with Councilmember Stover in the past on this issue, but
noted that many of the smaller companies have since been purchased by larger
organizations and felt that this may not be as contentious as in the past.
Council concurred that reference to this should remain as presented in the Comprehensive
Plan.
Municipal Water:
Planning Director Nielsen clarified that what is currently contained in the Comprehensive
Plan needs to be rewritten to reflect the ordinances in place and the direction of the
current Council based on previous discussion. He stated they intend to write this section
as a guide approach which would be in between the current approach and that which was
in place pre-1995, which included a voluntary hookup policy. He noted the question of
what to do with new development needs to be addressed. He stated that financial aspects
need to be considered as well as service problems such as connection of the Southeast
area system to the Amesbury system to provide backup capacity. He added that one part
of the policy that has remained constant over the years is the specifications for the
• infrastructure, which he strongly recommended they continue.
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
MAY 3,1999 - PAGE 5
Mayor Love felt they have three choices: to stop extension of water, to push for full
expansion of water, or to allow for reasonable expansion. He felt they should go for the
later. He referred to the development issue, and stated that if water hookup were
mandatory, it should be sensible and reasonable. He noted that this policy would not
apply to smaller developments (3 to 5 lots) where water is not available. However, he
added, this fee would not necessarily have to be competitive with the cost of drilling a
well.
Councilmember Garfunkel stated that water is a service provided by the City, and felt it
should not be treated any differently than the service of cable television. He felt it should
not be mandatory for anyone, and the decision should be based solely on economics of
the property owner.
Engineer Brown noted there are reasons that make municipal in an area more desirable,
such as limited aquifer capacity and cost of service equipment necessary to fund the
operation.
Councilmember Garfunkel challenged these points and felt they were not viable. He felt
the cost of any system should be born by those utilizing the service.
Mayor Love felt they need to look to the future, and he felt that private wells would not
• be a sensible approach.
Councilmember Lizee felt they need to consider the system as a whole and make
decisions that will have a positive effect in the future. She felt they should require new
development to hookup when water is available.
Councilmember Stover and Mayor Love agreed with making it a requirement for new
development.
Engineer Brown stated that a flat rate for water hookup should be established. He stated
he takes approximately 2 to 3 calls per week asking about connecting to the water system,
but they always want to know what it will cost them. Engineer Brown explained the
current ordinance states that cost will be determined on actual cost, and it is very difficult
to provide residents with an accurate estimate on any specific project. He added if a set
fee were established, and reviewed every year, it might facilitate additional hookups.
Planning Director Nielsen stated this issue should be discussed when an ordinance
amendment is considered. He felt they should establish a reasonable trunk charge. He
added with a voluntary system, varying charges is the way it will have to be. If water
were going in City-wide, a universal charge could be established.
Councilmember Stover questioned the cost of a feasibility report. Engineer Brown
• explained the costs associated with providing this report.
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
MAY 3,1999 - PAGE 6
• Councilmember Lizee felt that this report should be provided to residents as a cost of
providing the service. She felt that a flat rate for any hookup should be established and it
should be reviewed yearly, even though the City may lose some money with this process.
She felt the 20 year plan that was developed considered the age of wells in the area and
when road reconstruction should take place. Her opinion was that the City should return
to this type of plan.
Planning Director Nielsen stated that the pre-1995 plan was not based on a flat fee, but
rather based on actual costs.
Engineer Brown suggested the Comprehensive Plan not make any reference to how the
system is paid for, but rather the overall policy of extension. Council concurred.
Public Safety:
Mayor Love explained a Joint Powers Agreement is on the table as a viable option, but
noted it would need to be approved by all the affected City Councils.
Planning Director Nielsen suggested that language can be added that they will continue to
cooperatively work with the south lake area cities for these services.
0 Parks:
Planning Director Nielsen explained that if the Park Commission wants to remain open to
acquisition of additional land for public purpose, language should be added to explain
their position.
Council concurred that if an opportunity presented itself that was a positive addition in
terms of public lands, the City should be allowed to consider acquisition of that land.
Planning Director Nielsen explained that another situation to consider is when properties
become tax forfeit, should the City be allowed to consider the property for acquisition for
public purpose.
ADJOURNMENT
Planning Director Nielsen noted he will incorporate recommendations of the Council and
have the Planning Commission review it.
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CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
MAY 3,1999 - PAGE 7
• Councilmembers Lizee moved, Stover seconded, to adjourn at 10:35 p.m. Motion
passed unanimously.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Teri Naab, Deputy Clerk
•
WOODY MAYOR LOVE, MAYOR
ADMINISTRATOR