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050399 CC WS MinCITY OF SHOREWOOD CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD MONDAY, MAY 3,1999 IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING RECONVENED BOARD OF REVIEW MINUTES 1. CONVENE CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MEETING Mayor Love called the meeting to order at 8:35 p.m. A. Roll Call Present: Mayor Love; Councilmembers Stover, Garfunkel, Lizee and Zerby; Planning Director Brad Nielsen; City Engineer Larry Brown B. Review Agenda The agenda was accepted as presented. • Councilmembers Garfunkel moved, Stover seconded, to approve the agenda as presented. Motion was approved unanimously. 2. DISCUSSION ON COMPREHENSIVE PLAN A. Transportation Chapter Planning Director Nielsen asked Council for direction on content of this Chapter for the Planning Commission to review. He pointed out that both this Chapter and the Community Facilities Chapter has been subject to review by the Park Commission because of the inclusion of parks and trails. The Park Commission has made suggestions and a recommendation for approval of changes made to date on these Chapters. He referred to a memorandum dated April 9, 1999 listing those changes. Planning Director Nielsen referred to a sheet highlighting areas of concern within this Chapter. He noted the Park Commission added a goal relative to the trail system, which has been incorporated in the Chapter. He asked them to consider the section on streets, which he noted needs to be updated because it includes areas that needed further study that have since been resolved. These areas include: Galpin Lake Road, Christmas Lake Road, Vine Hill Road/Highway 7 and County Road 19/Smithtown intersections. He said the Comprehensive Plan currently recommends that new streets be designed according to • standards (24 feet wide minimum). This standards has been in existence for 20+ years. CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION . MAY 3,1999 - PAGE 2 Planning Director Nielsen noted at the last meeting, there was consensus of the Council that curb and gutter would be required except where a developer can demonstrate that water quality will be better without it. He felt this was a reasonable compromise. He noted that the City would retain control with regard to requiring curb and gutter or not, depending upon what is best in terms of water quality. Engineer Brown noted the standard design lane for streets that is acceptable is 12 feet, with a minimum by variance of 9 feet driving lane. This minimum does not include shoulders. Planning Director Nielsen noted that the Street Reconstruction Financing Task Force in the late 1980s recommended that the City not necessarily widen existing roads to 24 feet. In fact, they suggested upon reconstruction, streets be made at least 20 feet to meet fire code, but otherwise basically be put back to current size. They also recommended streets that neighbors did not want to have widen to meet fire code would remain at their current width upon reconstruction. Councilmember Stover urged Council to set aside time to discuss this issue more fully and adopt a policy on street assessments. • Engineer Brown stated that through the street inventory pavement management program, they projected out that they could keep going by not doing all the reconstructs necessary, but rather a combination of overlays and sealcoating, without an assessment policy. This is assuming no major problems arise in the future. Mayor Love asked if there are streets currently constructed wider than the 24' minimum with 20 MPH limits, such as Wedgewood, would they have the ability to reduce the amount of hard surface during a reconstruct of the roadway. Engineer Brown explained it is not in the best interest of the City to put down more pavement than necessary, so that issue can be looked at as it surfaces. Planning Director Nielsen noted that the 24' design standard is for 1/z acre lots or larger, and for smaller lot areas, a wider street is required due to the limited parking on the lot and more on -street parking is expected. Planning Director Nielsen noted in Shorewood there is a MSA route set up based upon the criteria set by the State. He noted that most of the routes that appear on the MSA map probably will never be built to MSA standards, but are shown to account for the mileage necessary. He stated that all the money will be used in the future on roads that should be designed to MSA standards (i.e. County Road 19/Smithtown Road intersection improvement). 0 CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION • MAY 3,1999 - PAGE 3 Planning Director Nielsen explained that the Park Commission added six new policies under the Transportation Chapter with respect to trails reflecting the trail planning process. They also recommended incorporating the Trail Concept Plan Map and the Trail Planning Process, replacing the previous Trail Plan. Councilmember Garfunkel expressed opposition to inclusion of trails along routes where residents have expressed opposition. He felt those should be deleted from the map. He noted that one of the main points of the trail process was the citizen input. Planning Director Nielsen stated by allowing them to remain on the map, they are providing a historical basis for any future considerations of placement of a trail in this location. It is important for staff and the property owner to know what potential future plans the City has. He felt that the trails where opposition has been voiced could be designated as on -street segments to eliminate any future confusion. Councilmember Zerby noted the Park Commission felt it was very important to include this map as presented because there was much planning involved in the preparation of it, not taking into consideration citizen input. Mayor Love stated he was at the Park Commission meeting and heard the discussion. He • felt the map provided a good point of discussion, perhaps bringing to light some other problems or issues in the area. He noted he heard concern about snowmobiles and speed along streets. Planning Director Nielsen noted that the Park Commission did ask that the lines on the map all be equal and not be designated with priorities. However, he added that funding is limited and those areas where positive input has been received will be considered first. Councilmember Lizee referred to a letter sent by the School District encouraging trails along Smithtown Road, and noted their reasoning had nothing to do with the bussing issue, but rather their concern was about pedestrian traffic along streets. Planning Director Nielsen added that the Park Commission did establish criteria for the placement of trails, one of which was along collector streets. He noted the Park Commission, when faced with opposition to a trail, should look at the characteristics of the road, the likelihood of the roadway ever being widened, and the traffic patterns of the area to determine if the trail is an improbability, then the trail should be noted as such. He suggested that language be included to stress these are only areas of consideration. Councilmember Stover felt that the Concept Map should be included as presented. 0 CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MAY 3,1999 - PAGE 4 • Planning Director Nielsen suggested they elaborate on how the Trail Concept Plan Map is used, emphasizing that segments shown on the map do not necessarily mean they will be built. Council concurred that would be an appropriate next step. Planning Director Nielsen noted they are proposing an annual review of the Comprehensive Plan process, at which time the map could be considered also. Mayor Love referred to the LRT and the possibility of it materializing into its intended use. Planning Director Nielsen explained if it were decided that the LRT will never be built, the Park Commission has recommended that the City would continue to maintain the trail for uses as it currently does. He added a sentence has been added back in that states "they will monitor the effectiveness of current rules regarding snowmobiles." B. Community Facilities Chapter Organized Garbage Collection: Councilmember Stover suggested that this topic be referenced in both the Community Facilities and Transportation Chapters. She reviewed the different options past Councils have considered with regard to this issue. • Councilmember Lizee suggested the Council reconsider this issue. Mayor Love stated he agreed with Councilmember Stover in the past on this issue, but noted that many of the smaller companies have since been purchased by larger organizations and felt that this may not be as contentious as in the past. Council concurred that reference to this should remain as presented in the Comprehensive Plan. Municipal Water: Planning Director Nielsen clarified that what is currently contained in the Comprehensive Plan needs to be rewritten to reflect the ordinances in place and the direction of the current Council based on previous discussion. He stated they intend to write this section as a guide approach which would be in between the current approach and that which was in place pre-1995, which included a voluntary hookup policy. He noted the question of what to do with new development needs to be addressed. He stated that financial aspects need to be considered as well as service problems such as connection of the Southeast area system to the Amesbury system to provide backup capacity. He added that one part of the policy that has remained constant over the years is the specifications for the • infrastructure, which he strongly recommended they continue. CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MAY 3,1999 - PAGE 5 Mayor Love felt they have three choices: to stop extension of water, to push for full expansion of water, or to allow for reasonable expansion. He felt they should go for the later. He referred to the development issue, and stated that if water hookup were mandatory, it should be sensible and reasonable. He noted that this policy would not apply to smaller developments (3 to 5 lots) where water is not available. However, he added, this fee would not necessarily have to be competitive with the cost of drilling a well. Councilmember Garfunkel stated that water is a service provided by the City, and felt it should not be treated any differently than the service of cable television. He felt it should not be mandatory for anyone, and the decision should be based solely on economics of the property owner. Engineer Brown noted there are reasons that make municipal in an area more desirable, such as limited aquifer capacity and cost of service equipment necessary to fund the operation. Councilmember Garfunkel challenged these points and felt they were not viable. He felt the cost of any system should be born by those utilizing the service. Mayor Love felt they need to look to the future, and he felt that private wells would not • be a sensible approach. Councilmember Lizee felt they need to consider the system as a whole and make decisions that will have a positive effect in the future. She felt they should require new development to hookup when water is available. Councilmember Stover and Mayor Love agreed with making it a requirement for new development. Engineer Brown stated that a flat rate for water hookup should be established. He stated he takes approximately 2 to 3 calls per week asking about connecting to the water system, but they always want to know what it will cost them. Engineer Brown explained the current ordinance states that cost will be determined on actual cost, and it is very difficult to provide residents with an accurate estimate on any specific project. He added if a set fee were established, and reviewed every year, it might facilitate additional hookups. Planning Director Nielsen stated this issue should be discussed when an ordinance amendment is considered. He felt they should establish a reasonable trunk charge. He added with a voluntary system, varying charges is the way it will have to be. If water were going in City-wide, a universal charge could be established. Councilmember Stover questioned the cost of a feasibility report. Engineer Brown • explained the costs associated with providing this report. CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MAY 3,1999 - PAGE 6 • Councilmember Lizee felt that this report should be provided to residents as a cost of providing the service. She felt that a flat rate for any hookup should be established and it should be reviewed yearly, even though the City may lose some money with this process. She felt the 20 year plan that was developed considered the age of wells in the area and when road reconstruction should take place. Her opinion was that the City should return to this type of plan. Planning Director Nielsen stated that the pre-1995 plan was not based on a flat fee, but rather based on actual costs. Engineer Brown suggested the Comprehensive Plan not make any reference to how the system is paid for, but rather the overall policy of extension. Council concurred. Public Safety: Mayor Love explained a Joint Powers Agreement is on the table as a viable option, but noted it would need to be approved by all the affected City Councils. Planning Director Nielsen suggested that language can be added that they will continue to cooperatively work with the south lake area cities for these services. 0 Parks: Planning Director Nielsen explained that if the Park Commission wants to remain open to acquisition of additional land for public purpose, language should be added to explain their position. Council concurred that if an opportunity presented itself that was a positive addition in terms of public lands, the City should be allowed to consider acquisition of that land. Planning Director Nielsen explained that another situation to consider is when properties become tax forfeit, should the City be allowed to consider the property for acquisition for public purpose. ADJOURNMENT Planning Director Nielsen noted he will incorporate recommendations of the Council and have the Planning Commission review it. 0 CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MAY 3,1999 - PAGE 7 • Councilmembers Lizee moved, Stover seconded, to adjourn at 10:35 p.m. Motion passed unanimously. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Teri Naab, Deputy Clerk • WOODY MAYOR LOVE, MAYOR ADMINISTRATOR