091007 CC WS MinCITY OF SHOREWOOD
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
SEPTEMBER 10, 2007
MINUTES
1. CONVENE CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Mayor Lizee called the meeting to order at 6:01 P.M
5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
6:00 P.M.
A. Roll Call
Present. Mayor Lizee; Councilmembers Callies, Turgeon, Wellens, and Woodruff; Administrator
Dawson; Finance Director Burton; Director of Public Works Brown; and Engineer
Landini
Absent: None
B. Review Agenda
Without objection from Council, Mayor Lizee proceeded with the Agenda for the meeting.
2. AMLEE ROAD, MANITOU LANE, GLEN ROAD STREET RECONSTRUCTION
PROJECT
Mayor Lizee stated at the City Council regular meeting following this work session Council will decide
whether or not it wanted to approve the Feasibility Report for the Amlee Road / Manitou Lane/ Glen
Road Road Reclamation Project and set the date for a public hearing for the proposed special
assessments.
Administrator Dawson stated at its August 13, 2007, meeting Council directed Staff to have WSB and
Associates revise the Feasibility Report to reflect the changes it recommended regarding the width of the
driving lanes, and it requested an easement acquisition report.
Mayor Lizee stated Steve Gurney, with WSB and Associates, was present this evening.
Engineer Landini highlighted the tabulation of the survey results from the property owners in the project
area: 47 percent of the respondents wanted watermain installed; 66 percent of the respondents wanted
edge control installed; 66 percent of the respondents had drainage issues; 71 percent of the respondents
did not want parking restrictions; and 87 percent of the respondents thought the current street widths,
which varied from 14 - 24 feet, were adequate.
Landini then reviewed the easement acquisition report that had been provided to Council that identified
which affected property owners had verbally agreed to the easements, those that were unsure, those that
were opposed, those who had been left a message, and those that had not been asked. The easement map
that had been distributed identified the all proposed permanent and temporary construction easement
locations, as well as hydrant and storm sewer easements. If watermain did not get installed there would
not be a need for the hydrant easements.
In response to a question from Councilmember Turgeon, Engineer Landini stated if the fire hydrant was
placed on the other side of her property the City did not need a hydrant easement from the Okeys.
Landini commented hydrants were normally placed on a property line so a ten-foot by ten-foot hydrant
easement would be equally placed on two properties. He explained the easement was necessary should
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September 10, 2007
Page 2 of 5
the City need to repair the hydrant. He commented there may be some flexibility with the final location
of the hydrants.
Engineer Landini stated there was not much flexibility with the location of the storm sewer easements.
Their location was determined by where the storm sewer pipes could be located. It would be necessary to
have a storm sewer easement between two of the properties so the storm sewer pipe could traverse to the
proposed water detention pond on the north side of the Hennepin County Regional Rail Authority
(HCRRA) trail. He commented the City had not been denied any requests for storm sewer easements; but
the City had not heard from all affected property owners. He explained that when the project area was
platted the City did not require storm sewer and utility easements as standard between each property.
In response to a question from Councilmember Callies, Engineer Landini stated no funds had been
budgeted for easement costs. He then stated the City would not want to pay for easements as that could
set precedent. Councilmember Turgeon commented that some easements could actually increase a
property's value because it would be an improvement. Administrator Dawson stated if a storm sewer or
utility easement was located on the property line between two properties it could be considered to be of
benefit to the properties.
Engineer Landini stated there were 85 - 90 trees that would have to be removed as a result of the
proposed narrower driving lanes; that number was down from approximately 110 trees for the 24-foot-
wide driving lanes. Councilmember Wellens stated the reduction in the number of trees to be removed
may not warrant narrower driving lanes. Landini then stated an additional 108 trees would have to be
removed for the construction of the proposed water detention pond. Mr. Gurney clarified that any tree
greater than four inches in diameter was identified for removal; that was a MnDOT standard. Gurney also
clarified sumac were marked for removal; they were in addition to the previously stated figures. Mayor
Lizee stated some of the trees targeted for removal appeared not to be healthy.
Engineer Landini commented that four power poles would have to be relocated to the edge of the right-
of-way.
Mayor Lizee questioned if the utility Lines could be placed underground, and the anticipated impact to
each property. Director Brown stated the Public Utilities Commission placed a maximum limit on the
surcharge amount that could be charged to the rate payers per month. Brown then stated rate payers were
already paying a surcharge for other projects, thereby limiting the number of additional projects that
could be completed. With regard to impact to individual properties, Brown explained utility lines were
buried 32 - 36 inches deep. The larger impact to a property owner would be that the home service would
have to be placed underground, and that would require the property owner to upgrade the electrical box
inside their house, at their cost. Councilmember Wellens commented he recollected that costs for
upgrade would be $1,000 - $2,000 per household.
In response to a question from Councilmember Turgeon, Director Brown explained the City's standard
for the width of a cul-de-sac was a 45.5 foot radius to the back of the curb based on the requirements for
fire rescue vehicles and City plows. Brown explained the current cul-de-sac was somewhat oblong in
shape, and that would become wider in areas after construction. He stated different design options could
possibly be considered. He commented that similar discussions had occurred regarding cul-de-sac widths
for the Mallard Lane /Teal Circle / Wedgewood Drive project; follow-up comments from properly
owners indicated they were generally satisfied with the cul-de-sacs that were the City's standard in
width.
Councilmember Woodruff stated he had sent Staff an email asking them to review existing drainage
issues and what would be done to resolve them. Mr. Gurney stated the properly at 24735 Glen Road had
been identified as a problem area in the 2005 Drainage Problem Area Report. Storm sewer improvements
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September 10, 2007
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are proposed that should reduce the possibility of flooding at backyard of the property 25735 Glen Road,
and the backyards of the properties between the Hennepin County Regional Rail Authority (HCRRA)
trail and Amlee Road. He stated there were many homes that were located lower than the road; the
installation of edge control and the storm sewer improvements would reduce the amount of water flow
off the road onto the properties. There was a pond located near the Shorewood Place Apartments that had
a 12-inch PVC outlet pipe that was located next to County Road 19 and eventually emptied next to the
trail ditch; some of that that road runoff would be rerouted. Drain the would be installed throughout the
project area. Director Brown stated the City had a standard that would allow homeowners to empty their
sump pump water to the drain tiled areas. Gurney stated the drainage concern near the property at 5565
Harding Lane would. probably not be resolved as part of this project, but it would not be made worse as a
result of the project.
In response to a question from Councilmember Woodruff, Mr. Gurney stated the flags around the
wetland area marked the existing wetland boundaries and that wetland area would be expanded.
Woodruff questioned if the proposed detention pond would result in new drainage issues for property
owners on the north side of the HCRRA trail. Gurney stated it would be contained within the City-owned
property, and there would be a buffer of trees on the north and west sides of the pond. Director Brown
stated the new detention pond would filter the water and it would detain the water for a controlled rate of
runoff. He commented when water was detained it could extend the timeframe that water would trickle
down the outlet after a heavy rain storm.
Councilmember Wellens suggested Council discuss the possible installation of watermain.
Councilmember Callies stated from her vantage point many trees would be removed, but there would be
many trees that remained. She commented that only Amlee Road and Manitou Lane were considered as
part of the original project that was proposed. She stated she would prefer the drainage issues be resolved
where possible; but she would not be supportive of doing so if watermain was not installed as part of the
project. She stated the City must consider the needs of future property owners and well as current
property owners at this time. She stated this road reclamation project should address drainage issues and
watermain installation. If the City could not afford to do the project such that it addressed future needs,
then the project should not be done.
In response to a comment by Councilmember Turgeon, Administrator Dawson explained the installation
of watermain could be deleted from the scope of the project at a later date but it could not be added to the
scope. Council should give direction as to the maximum scope of the project. Councilmember Woodruff
stated there was an option to remove West Glen Road from the project scope (although he was not stating
he advocated that), and if that were done he questioned how many fewer trees would need to be removed.
Mr. Gurney stated approximately 40 - 50 percent of the 85 - 90 trees designated for removal were
located on West Glen Road. Turgeon stated there were more property owners on West Glen Road that
wanted watermain installed than there were on East Glen Road; most of the property owners on Manitou
Lane wanted watermain installed.
Mayor Lizee stated there had been drainage issues in the project area for 40 years. She thought the
project should address road improvements, drainage issues, and watermain installation (if feasible) as
major improvements to Glen Road would not be considered for maybe another 20 years. Although no one
wanted to remove trees, that would have to be done and those trees could be replaced. Engineer Landini
commented the City had a tree preservation policy that would have to be brought before Council for
action; the policy allowed the Council to exclude City-owned property.
Councilmember Turgeon stated she would prefer to keep the scope of the project as broad as possible.
The installation of watermain would not impact the number of trees that would have to be removed for
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September 10, 2007
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other project reasons. Mr. Gurney stated there were approximately 12 trees that would have to be
removed solely because of watermain installation.
Councilmember Callies stated it was a loss to remove trees, but they could be replaced. If the
infrastructure was not installed as part of this project it would probably never be done; the City should
not miss the opportunity. She also anticipated that some of the existing houses would be replaced in the
future.
In response to a question from Councilmember Wellens, Mr. Gurney stated the scope of the project could
be reduced. Councilmember Woodruff stated he interpreted that to mean that keeping the proposed scope
would not add to the cost of the project if the scope were later reduced.
In response to a question Councilmember Turgeon related from a property owner, Mr. Gurney stated the
radius of the cul-de-sac would be the City's standard and it was not impacted by the width of the roads.
Councilmember Turgeon related another a property owner questioned if there was any benefit to
reducing the proposed width of Amlee Road to 22 feet (which would be the same as proposed with for
Manitou Lane). Director Brown stated that property owners on Noble Road complained that school buses
had a problem navigating the road when construction vehicles were on the road; Noble Road was 20 - 22
feet wide.
Mayor Lizee stated Council. would now accept questions from the public
Wall~royan, 24845 Glen Road, stated the trees that would be removed on the south side of Glen Road
were some of the oldest trees on the street; those trees would be replaced with small saplings that would
take a very long time to reach maturity and he may never see that. He then stated he had signatures from
70 - 80 percent of the property owners on Glen Road that were in opposition to the project. He also
stated based on previous discussion it was his understanding if there were any upgrades to the road which
would include the installation of curb and gutter, then watermain would be installed. He stated from his
vantage point the loss of trees would negatively impact the property values. He questioned why the
project was being forced on the property owners on Glen Road.
Kevin Conley, 24740 Amlee Road, suggested property owners be provided with additional information
about the reforestation plan (e.g., what the tree replacement ratio would be). He stated that there were
varieties of trees that mature much faster than others.
Kip Knutson, 24820 Glen Road, stated at the public information meeting held recently there had been
some comments indicating that some of the drainage issues on the north side of Amlee Road would not
be corrected because of issues with Hennepin County. At this meeting he thought he understood that
most of those issues would be addressed. He then stated even if the number of trees proposed for removal
was reduced significantly, those that would be removed were some of the oldest trees.
John Miller. 24925 Glen Road, stated there was a comment made at a public information meeting that
other cities had been able to do roadway improvements, including the installation of curb and gutter, with
minimal construction easements. He questioned if that had been researched, and could it be considered as
a compromise.
Rick Eng, 251.70 Glen Road, questioned if the City considered the safety issues of installing a new water
detention pond near a park with athletic fields. No chain link fence was proposed around the pond. He
stated the site proposed for the pond was a hardwood forest and it was not a wetland area. He proposed
the City enter into a joint agreement with Tonka Bay and create a nature center on the site. There was an
existing water detention pond located 3,000 feet away.
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September 10, 2007
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Bob Gagne, 24850 Glen Road, stated the pond area Mr. Eng referenced was donated land. The athletic
fields on land had originally been marsh and had been filled.
Elizabeth Van 24170 Amlee Road, questioned how her existing drainage concerns would be resolved.
She stated it was her understanding from discussion at a previous Council meeting that the City could not
do anything to address damage that had been done to the wetland area as a result of stormwater being
conveyed to it. She stated the proposed plan drawings did not clearly depict the location of the existing
wetland area.
Mayor Lizee stated the boundaries of the existing wetland area were currently marked by flags. Mr.
Gurney stated wetlands had been delineated on both the north and south side of the HCRRA trail; the
delineations had been approved by the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District. The delineations were
shown on the construction documents and would be on the permit applications.
Mayor Lizee stated that recent water detention ponds had been built to National Urban Runoff Program
(NURP) standards. Mr. Gurney explained that typically a pond that had been designed in accordance
with NURP standards had a safety bench (a ten foot wide area that had aone-foot slope) around it.
Emergent vegetation grew in that area; that made it difficult for people and natural predators to access
the pond. There had been instances when NURP ponds had been fenced in, but that created a liability
issue due to lack of access for rescue workers. The majority of municipalities install softscape buffers
(e.g., an emergent vegetation bench, buffers). The proposed pond would be 3 - 4 deep, the same depth as
the existing pond. Councilmember Turgeon stated the pond would be designed similar to Gideon Glen
pond. Director Brown stated the pond constructed next to the Badger Football Field was a NURP pond;
loose balls were stopped at the weed edge of the pond. Brown explained that NURP standards were
designed to account for the silt from initial construction and approximately 25 years of sediment buildup
before they must be restored.
Councilmember Woodruff commented that wetlands did not have to have water on it to be considered a
wetland. The area designated as a wetland on the north side of the HCRAA trail was clearly a wetland.
3. OTHER
There was no other business for discussion.
4. ADJOURN
Turgeon moved, Woodruff seconded, Adjourning the City Council Work Session Meeting of
September 10, 2007, at 6:59 P.M. Motion passed 4/0.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Christine Freeman, Recorder
Christine Lizee, Mayor
ATTEST:
Craig W. Dawson, City Administrator/Clerk
A