05-04-10 Joint CC and Planning Comm MinCITY OF SHOREWOOD
JOINT CITY COUNCIL AND
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
SHOREWOOD CITY HALL
6:00 PM
TUESDAY, MAY 4, 2010
MINUTES
1. CONVENE JOINT CITY COUNCIL AND PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
Mayor Lizee convened the Joint Meeting at 6:00 p.m.
A. Roll Call
Present: Mayor Lizee; Councilmembers Turgeon, Woodruff and Zerby; Administrator Heck; and
Planning Director Nielsen
Planning Commission Chair Geng; Planning Commissioners Davis, Hasek (arrived at
6:01 P.M.), Hutchins, Ruoff, and Vilett (arrived at 6:02 P.M.)
Absent: Councilmember Bailey; Planning Commissioner Arrest
B. Review Agenda
Turgeon moved, Hutchins seconded, approving the agenda for the Joint City Council and Planning
Commission meeting as presented. Motion passed 8/0.
2. REVIEW PLANNING COMMISSION WORK PROGRAM
Mayor Lizde welcomed the Planning Commissioners. She turned control of the meeting over to Director
Nielsen and Planning Commission Chair Geng.
Director Nielsen stated the Planning Commission is well into its 2010 work program and as of now is
right on schedule. The most significant and time consuming task is the Smithtown Crossing
redevelopment plan. The Commission will discuss the topic again during its meeting immediately
following this meeting. The owners of the properties in this area are going to be invited to the next
Commission meeting scheduled for May 18 The Commission will tell the property owners of the
discussions it has had to date about this item and it hopes to find out what the property owners' long -term
plans are for their properties. The Commission hopes to invite developers to its meeting scheduled for
June 1" to review current development rules and regulations and what the broad vision is in the
Comprehensive Plan (Comp Plan) for the area. The Commission also wants to solicit feedback from the
developers on what significant problems they could foresee with the rules and regulations, and the vision.
The Commission thought it important for the rules and regulations to be realistic.
Nielsen explained the area the Commission is considering at this time. Gideon Glen is the north boundary
of the commercial area in the northwest quadrant of the Smithtown Crossing area. On the corner is the
old gas station property (which is owned by the American Legion), and next to it on the west is the
American Legion facility. West of that is the Burry property. Then there is the old apartment building.
There is a vacant lot next to that which is owned by the American Legion. The western boundary has
intentionally been left vague. A developer may want to acquire a couple of the single family residential
JOINT CITY COUNCIL AND PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
May 4, 2010
Page 2 of 7
properties to the west. North of the gas station property is the old carpet store, which is now owned and
occupied by Heartbreaker.
Nielsen then reviewed the southeast quadrant of the Smithtown Crossing area. It includes the gas station
on the corner, the car lot, the transmission shop, and the car wash. Each of those properties has a
different owner. On the easterly end of the northeast quadrant of Smithtown Crossing there is a single
family home, next to the chocolate factory, which is surrounded by either commercial or public property.
The probability of that property being reused someday is high. He anticipates that someday an R-C use
may be appropriate for redevelopment of that property. He noted the property owners have not discussed
selling the property with the City. He stated the County Road 19 Corridor Study states a goal of trying to
put some type of pedestrian crossing below grade; therefore, it would be nice to connect Badger Park
with the LRT Trail north of the public safety facility.
Nielsen stated there are a number of issues with the properties in the study area. There are low - value, and
in some cases almost dilapidated, buildings and substandard buildings. There are nonconforming land
uses. There are a number of planning issues for the area. The Commission discussed the pros and cons of
what the Comp Plan calls for which is a unified development for the northwest corner and also the
southeast corner, or possibly all of the area. The Commission thought it prudent to be prepared for the
situation where someone wants to redevelop an individual property and that proposed redevelopment
satisfies the City's ordinances. The redevelopment plan he and the Commission are working on will
address that also.
Nielsen then stated that during its last meeting the Commission started working on a vision statement for
what the City hopes to see in that redeveloped area. The vision will elaborate on what's stated in the
Comp Plan. The Commission will continue that discussion during its meeting following this one. The
vision statement talks about pedestrian access and connecting to the existing pedestrian/bicycle facilities.
There is some potential to extend a pedestrian area along the southerly boundary of the study area on the
west. The purpose of the vision statement is intended to market the area.
Commissioner Vilett stated the vision is to redevelop the study area such that it has a community feeling.
Director Nielsen stated the Commission has discussed a redevelopment project being a mixed use
project. The Commission is looking at what can be updated in the City Ordinances to further that. The
Comp Plan suggests a mixed use of senior housing and commercial. He commented that Administrator
Heck and he are planning to meet next week with a representative from Ehlers. The representative has
development contacts that are willing to review what the potential could be for redeveloping the area.
The City Ordinance has a planned unit development (P.U.D.) section and it has a section that indicates
commercial and residential can be mixed. The Commission will be looking at elaborating on the mixed
use requirements. To date the discussion has been about a mixed use development on the northwest
quadrant of the area.
Nielsen explained mixed use can be achieved in a number of ways. One is vertical mixed use with
commercial on the bottom and residential on the top. He stated he has heard from developers that vertical
mixed use developments are not going over as well as they would like. Developers have suggested a
horizontal mixed use development may be a better approach. Part of the northwest quadrant would be
devoted to commercial development and part of it residential. For the commercial part there maybe
commercial on the bottom of the building and office space above it, noting that isn't quite considered
mixed use and that can be done in the City's commercial zoning district.
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May 4, 2010
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Nielsen reviewed some sketches Commissioner Hasek did for the Commission, noting he found them
quite useful.
Nielsen explained it would be extremely inefficient to redevelop each of the properties individually. The
Commission intends to convey that to the property owners. Each property would have to contend with its
own drainage issues and its own parking requirements. If, for example, the northwest quadrant was
developed in a unified manner there could be one stormwater ponding area. The scale of the project
could be such that there could be some type of underground storage for stormwater, noting this is true for
both the northwest and southeast quadrants.
Commissioner Vilett stated she thought from an economic perspective the property owners may be able
to sell their property for a higher price if it's sold with the other properties.
Couneilmember Zerby stated it's his understanding that there is a business looking into the possibility of
purchasing the old gas station property in the northwest quadrant. Director Nielsen stated he has heard
the same thing.
Director Nielsen stated he would be concerned if someone purchases a property in the subject area and
then wants to rebuild the site. If they just use the property as is that is not as concerning to him.
Nielsen explained the American Legion has done some ground testing of its properties. He stated the
American Legion is a key player in the redevelopment of the northwest quadrant. It owns the property the
American Legion is on, the old gas station property and the vacant property. He related that when a
previous planning commissioner was looking into redeveloping the area for a firm the Legion had
expressed it would be willing to swap land for a new American Legion facility, noting the Legion wants
to have a separate facility with visibility from County Road 19.
Councihnenber Turgeon commented that from her perspective the American Legion organization is kind
of the holdup of the redevelopment of the northwest quadrant..
Director Nielsen stated he thought the best way to have the American Legion get on board with anything
is for someone to come to them and present apackage that satisfies the wants it has.
Mayor Lizee stated the important thing is for the Commission to continue to create a broad vision for the
area. She thought it's great that the Commission is going to meet with the property owners as a group to
hear from them what transitions they envision. She also thought it's great that the Commission is going to
meet with land developers to get their views on potential developments as well as constraints. She
thought the Commission, the property owners and the developers could all be contributors to a high level
vision for the area. She thought the City should help them make this a great community spot.
Couneilmember Turgeon stated she thought it's important to explain to the property owners what the
requirements would be to redevelop their properties individually.
In response to a comment by Councilmember Woodruff, Director Nielsen explained he thought the total
combined study area on the northwest quadrant was approximately 6.5 acres and the area on the
southeast quadrant was approximately 4 acres.
Commissioner Davis stated she agreed with Mayor Liz&e. She thought if the Commission got the people
together and formed somewhat of a team she thought the American Legion would be receptive to things.
JOINT CITY COUNCIL. AND PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
May 4, 2010
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Councilmember Turgeon stated she thought there were two camps of people that will impact things with
the American Legion. There is an old commodore who is not interested in change. There is a new
commodore who is interested in making changes to improve things. She indicated she thought the Legion
would be the hiccup for the northwest quadrant. She also thought Heartbreaker could be an issue because
they just purchased the property and it paid more than it was worth. Director Nielsen stated he thought it
was a good thing that Heartbreaker didn't build a new building. Mayor Lizee stated she thought
Heartbreaker understood the issues as it was involved in the development across County Road 19 in
Tonka Bay.
Commissioner Vilett stated she thought it would be prudent to present information in the most positive
way possible. She also thought it would be important to convey to property owners in a gentle way that
their properties will go down in value if surrounding properties are redeveloped and theirs aren't.
Director Nielsen stated in all reality the two quadrants will likely be redeveloped somewhere between
piecemeal and ideal.
Administrator Heck stated he thought it would be important to have different options available to discuss
with the property owners. He commented that land exchanges can occur as part of a deal.
Planning Commission Chair Geng stated he thought a key element of the discussion with the property
owners would be to discuss the difficulties there will be with piecemeal development under current
zoning requirements.
Councilmember Zerby stated he wasn't sure that from a business perspective the return -on- investment is
there for redeveloping the northwest quadrant. The traffic flow is extremely heavy. It's located in the
middle of a "bedroom community ". There are properties along Highway 7 that are for sale. The office
building along County Road 19 in Shorewood still has vacancies. There has been discussion going on for
some time about expanding the Tonka Village Shopping Center and that hasn't occurred.
Commissioner Vilett stated the Commission has been discussing what could the City do (such as tax
increment financing) to make the area attractive to developers.
Councilmember Turgeon stated she wanted to back away from the use of the words "senior housing"
when speaking about mixed use. Director Nielsen noted the Comp Plan says states senior housing.
Turgeon stated mixed use could be retail on the bottom and apartments /condos on the top. Nielsen
explained that senior housing can be higher density. Nielsen questioned if the City offered enough higher
density for senior housing. Nielsen stated he thought it would a lot easier to convince the residential area
to the west that senior housing would be an easier transition than multiple family housing. Turgeon stated
she did not think it would make any difference to the residents if a three -story building contained senior
housing or multiple family housing.
Mayor Lizee stated the City has to decide if it wants to allow life cycle housing. It appears that residents
want to remain in the community. For example, the Shorewood Ponds development filled up; there has
been good retention of the senior housing property owners. She thought life cycle housing may help the
real estate market. The schools in the area are filled. If a higher density housing development could be
developed in the study area that would be great. She commented a 6.4 acre site isn't all that large. She
expressed her support for life cycle housing in the City.
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May 4, 2010
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Councilmember Turgeon stated there were not a lot of starter homes in the City. There isn't much to
offer 20 — 30 year olds. Mayor Liz& stated that's in part because a lot of the senior residents are
remaining in then homes. Turgeon stated there are a few pockets of them but they are very expensive
because of acreage requirements. Turgeon then stated that from her perspective life cycle housing starts
when a child gets out of college until they no longer want to remain in their home.
Commissioner Vilett stated it is her understanding that it was difficult for a former planning
commissioner to identify a way to make the development of the northwest quadrant financially feasible
because of density limitations. Director Nielsen explained that individual couldn't even make it
financially feasible even if some type of tax increment financing was available because of the current
density limitations.
Director Nielsen commented that he has been speaking with a developer who may have some interest in
the northwest quadrant, but he has higher density requirements than currently allowed. Nielsen stated the
Planning Commission wants some type of mixed use development in that area but it did not specify any
specific percent.
Commissioner Hasek stated he actually wanted to include the residential properties between the subject
area and up to Christopher Road,
Councilmember Zerby stated he lives on Christopher Road. He built his home 16 years ago along with
other property owners. He noted that only two properties have been turned over in 20 years. He
commented the community is a very tight community. After the area between Christopher Road and the
subject area was cleared residents can see the neon lights; not something they relish. He stated if the
residential area is also cleared out the Christopher Road neighborhood is going to rally against that. He
apologized for taking a personal viewpoint on this. He expressed he is stating a resident's position. He
stated there are four houses in the area Commissioner 'Hasek is speaking about. One of the property
owners has raised chicken and goats; they think they live in a rural area.
Councilmember Turgeon recommended against extending the study area any further to the west.
Commissioner Hasek stated that when the Planning Commission discussed the study area it noted the
parking requirements for parking are approximately three times as great as those for senior housing. The
Commission thought that having a higher density use with lower traffic needs would be better for the
area. The Commission thought traffic will be an issue there.
Councilmember Zerby asked if the Comp Plan doesn't say something about reducing traffic on County
Club Road. Director Nielsen explained that the traffic counts actually came down some from what they
were prior to CUB Foods being developed near Lake Linden Drive. Commissioner Vilett said the
Commission discussed getting more traffic into the mixed use area.
Commissioner Ruoff stated if the study area is developed on a piecemeal basis who knows what will
happen to traffic counts. By encouraging a unified development of the area there will at least be some
control. lie related that during the last Planning Commission meeting Director Nielsen had stated one
vision for the northwest quadrant could include a common area for the businesses. It would improve the
aesthetics of the area.
JOINT CITY COUNCIL AND PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
May 4, 2010
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Councilmember Zerby stated he is all for making the area look better. There are definite issues with the
how the northwest quadrant looks. He expressed what gets him concerned is three -story high- density
buildings, tearing down houses, and encroaching toward Christopher Road.
Administrator Heck stated if the City wants to reduce the gap between vacancy and non - vacancy in that
area the higher density has to be allowed.
Mayor Lizde stated the City has to be open to different options.
Planning Commission Chair Geng stated the Planning Commission didn't foresee the area being
redeveloped any time soon. But, the Commission concurred with Director Nielsen that the City has to
have some vision for how it would like the study area to be redeveloped prior the economy taking a turn
upward.
Mayor Lizde agreed the City should be proactive rather than reactive.
Commissioner Vilett clarified that the Planning Commission's intent is to get a dialogue going with
property owners and developers. It has no intent to force this on any one. The pros and cons of different
approaches should be discussed.
Commissioner Ruoff stated it's critical that the Commission emphasize the purpose is to get a discussion
going and clarify the City does not have a set direction at this time.
Commissioner Hasek asked if Council had any reaction to the vision statement.
Mayor Lizde suggested that when the Commission meets with the property owners and developers it will
be important to let them know the Commission has some ideas and also that there are issues with some of
the properties. She thought the others would be more open to sharing their ideas knowing that. She
expressed her appreciation for the Commission moving forward on this.
Commissioner Hutchins stated it's critical that the property owners understand the City doesn't anticipate
the areas being redeveloped anytime soon. He commented that there are I10 condo developments in
various stages of completion at this time in the metropolitan area. He thought financing any type of
development at this time is going to be difficult to get.
Mayor Lizde stated if Councilmembers have comments about the remainder of the Planning
Commission's work program she asked them to provide their comments to Director Nielsen.
Mayor Lizde stated the work program indicates the Planning Commission will discuss sustainability in
December 2010 and again in 2011. She indicated she did not think sustainability had been defined well
as of yet. She then stated there were three great editorials in the May 2, 2010, Star Tribune Opinion
Exchange section. Her favorite was the editorial about energy innovation written by Bill Gates and Chad
Holliday. The authors talked how innovation in not political. She then stated there are a lot of great ideas
about sustainability. She complemented the Commission for wanting to look at the big picture. She
thought it was up to the Council, with the help of the Planning Commission, to provide leadership on
how to go about affecting change locally. She indicated she thought everyone on the Council and the
Planning Commission had a lot of good ideas and she thought that collectively they could pull them
together.
JOINT CITY COUNCIL AND PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
May 4, 2010
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3. OTHER BUSINESS
There was no other business for discussion.
91 \03 rail] NO
Zerby moved, Woodruff seconded, adjourning the Joint City Council and Planning Commission
meeting at 6:58 P.M. Motion passed 10/0.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
Christine Freeman, Recorder
ATTEST:
0 M' Christine Lizee, Mayor