07-26-10 CC WS MinCITY OF SHOREWOOD
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
MONDAY, JULY 26, 2010
MINUTES
1. CONVENE CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Mayor Liz6e called the meeting to order at 6:00 P.M
5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
6:00 P.M.
A. Roll Call
Present. Mayor Lizee; Councilmembers Bailey (arrived at 6:09 P.M.), Turgeon, Woodruff and
Zerby; Administrator Heck; Planning Director Nielsen; and Director of Public Works
Brown
Absent: None
B. Review Agenda
Turgeon moved, Zerby seconded, approving the agenda as presented. Motion passed 4/0.
2. CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM
Administrator Heck stated during its July 19, 2010, work session Council decided to leave the transfer to
the Park Capital Improvement Fund at $42,000. Therefore, the Park Commission has been asked to revise
the Park Capital Improvement Program (CIP) to fit within that parameter. Council also decided to reduce
the proposed transfer to the Street Reconstruction Fund from $750,000 to $700,000; the same as in 2010.
Council discussed programming funds in the Public Facilities Find for potential capital improvement
needs in 2011 for the Southshore Community Center (SSCC). Council also discussed possibly using
funds in the Technology Fund to purchase signage inventory management software in 2011.
Heck recommended that this evening Council discuss the Equipment Replacement CIP and the Local
Street Reconstruction CIP. He noted the Equipment Replacement CIP programs expenditures in 2011 of
just over $200,000 and the Local Street Reconstruction CIP programs just under $1 million in 2011 for
bituminous sealcoating of roadways and capital improvements to roadways.
Council did not have any comments about the Public Facilities Fund or the Park Capital Improvement
Fund.
Administrator Heck stated the Equipment Replacement CIP programs the purchase of a replacement
dump truck with a snow plow and other related equipment and a track excavator.
Director Brown explained the dump truck that is proposed to be replaced is a 1988 vehicle and it's one of
the City's best trucks. The truck is extremely rusted out. The proposed track excavator will replace the
tractor backhoe. The backhoe is used for ditching and ditch cleaning. During storm events the backhoe is
used to clean out culverts that have become plugged during the storm. There is not time during the storm
events to call a contractor to provide that service or to go and rent a piece of equipment. Over time a lot
of ditches in the City have started to fill up, particularly in the west end of the City. Therefore, a lot more
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July 26, 2010
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ditch maintenance will have to be done. The estimated cost to purchase a "garden variety" backhoe is in
line with the amount budgeted. If the backhoe is replaced with a track excavator it will likely be a used
piece of equipment because the cost for a new excavator is more than what is budgeted.
Brown noted that one of the reasons the Equipment Replacement Fund has such a healthy balance is he
always considers the availability of used equipment. For example, the City purchased a reconditioned
truck and put a water tanker on it, and it purchased a used jetter.
Brown related that Administrator Heck has asked if equipment, such as a skid steer with a small
excavator on it, could be used instead. The reach of the piece of equipment must be considered. If
everything were possible with a skid steer with a small attachment contractors would be using that type
of equipment; that's not what they are using.
In response to a question from Mayor Liz6e, Director Brown explained a track excavator is a track
mounted vehicle. It will allow Public Works staff to get into areas where the ground is softer; areas
where ditching will have to be done. For many years staff used to go and ditch back the area along Grant
Lorenz Road; the wetland that leads out to Lake Minnetonka. That hasn't been done for years because of
concern that the backhoe would be lost due to the wet conditions in that area. The current backhoe is a
wheeled backhoe. It's not impossible to get into those types of areas.
In response to a question from Councilmember Zerby, Director Brown explained the current backhoe is
used about once every two weeks. It's also used 3 — 4 times a year on an emergency basis during storm
events. It's used to clean out Crescent Beach and that could be done almost daily if time permitted.
Councilmember Z,erby then asked if it's possible to have any nearby city to share in the cost of track
excavator.
In response to a question from Mayor Liz6e, Director Brown stated the cost for backhoe is $74,256. A
new track excavator would cost over $100,000. He will research if there is a used excavator for no more
than the cost of a new backhoe. He thought the excavator is more versatile than a backhoe.
Director Brown explained when Public Works staff is on a roadway excavating with the current tractor
backhoe the equipment has to be positioned perpendicular to the excavation area. That shuts the roadway
down to traffic. What's dugout has to be pilled on the roadway. Another piece of equipment has to be
brought to the site to load the material that has been dugout into a dump truck sitting along side the
backhoe. A track excavator sits parallel to the excavation area. The dump truck can be along side and be
loaded without the need for another piece of equipment because the excavator is able to pivot.
In response to a question from Councilmember Turgeon, Director Brown stated he was confident Public
Works personnel would be able to run the track excavator.
Councilmember Turgeon commented the proposed transfer to the Equipment Replacement Fund in 2011
is $50,000; the 2010 budgeted transfer amount is $100,000.
In response to a question from Councilmember Turgeon, Administrator Heck stated he had originally
proposed increasing the transfer to the Street Reconstruction Fund to $750,000 in 2011. Council later
decided to reduce it to $700,000 for 2011.
Councilmember Woodruff stated some months ago Council discussed installing a vehicle lift in the
Public Works mechanics bay. He thought there was consensus to do that and to do it in 2010. There is
CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION MEETING MINUTES
July 26, 2010
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nothing included in the CIP for that. Administrator Heck commented that is his recollection also. Heck
stated it needs to be added to the CIP.
In response to a question from Councilmember Turgeon, Director Brown stated he thought the current
backhoe is 25 — 28 years old but he has to verify that.
Administrator Heck stated he thought the City had a loader backhoe. Director Brown clarified the City
has only a tractor backhoe.
Councilmember Turgeon stated she thought the tractor backhoe is used more than the track excavator
would be. She did not think they would be interchangeable. Director Brown explained the track
excavator would replace the tractor backhoe. Brown noted the excavator would have to be transported on
a trailer and he thought the City's trailer would be able to handle that.
In response to a question from Councilmember Turgeon, Director Brown again explained if he decided to
recommend the purchase of a track excavator he would look for a used track excavator that would cost
approximately the same amount ($75,000) as a basic backhoe. Mayor Liz €e stated she is comfortable
with the direction Brown is going, and she thought it should be up to Brown to recommend which of the
two pieces of equipment the City should purchase. Liz& agreed the excavator would be more versatile.
Councilmember Zerby stated based on a search he just conducted on the intemet a dump truck can be
configured many ways and for various prices.
Director Brown explained the estimate cost to purchase the dump truck is $141,426. He stated he thought
purchasing a dump truck with a plow is one of the most difficult equipment purchases to make because
there are so many combinations. Components of the truck are made by different manufactures. A buyer
typically enters into 4 — 5 contracts to purchase a plow track.
Councilmember Woodruff commented the budgeted amount for the track excavator should be changed to
$75,000. Director Brown stated he would be comfortable with that.
Discussion turned to the Local Street Reconstruction CIP
Director Brown stated he and Administrator Heck have had many discussions about the City's roadway
improvement program. As a result of the discussions he has come to the conclusion that Engineer Landim
and he may not have been as clear as they needed to be regarding when a roadway needed to be
reconstructed and when it was appropriate to reclaim a roadway. A roadway can be reclaimed if the
installation of watennain is not considered as part of the project. When a roadway project comes up for
discussion residents look at the surface of the roadway to decide if they think the roadway needs
improvements. The surface of the roadway is one of the components considered by the Pavement Surface
Evaluation and Rating (PASER) System. A big part of the issue is with the foundation under the
pavement. For example, prior to reconstructing Wedgewood Drive all of the underlying soils had become
saturated and the pavement started to buckle. The rapid change in soils caused the surface roadway to
deteriorate rapidly.
Brown explained if a roadway's surface has deteriorated and the underlying soils are reasonably dry the
roadway could potentially be reclaimed provided there are no other reasons to reconstruct it. If a
roadway's underlying soils are saturated and moving around due to frost the roadway should be
reconstructed. The surface of a roadway with saturated underlying soils could be overlaid and that could
last a couple of years. It could also be reclaimed and that would last maybe five years. But, over time the
saturated soils will move around due to frost or just being really saturated and the top surface will
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Judy 26, 2010
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deteriorate. He thought Staff has looked at the roadways that need to be reconstructed and determined
that the top surface and the underlying soils and sub -soils need to be replaced. There are some roadways
identified as needing to be reconstructed that could possible be reclaimed instead. He clarified that not all
of the roadways slated for reconstruction in the 20 -Year Pavement Improvement Plan (PMP) can be
reclaimed. -
Brown noted that Star Circle and Star Lane should definitely be reconstructed. The sub -soils under the
surfaces are extremely poor.
Brown stated that years ago the sitting council members expressed the City's roadways were in bad shape
and they asked Staff what to do about it. A goal was established that all of the City's roadways should
have a PASER System rating goal of 4 or higher. It appeared that goal was reasonable. It now appears
that Council may think that goal is not financially supportable. Council may need to decide if the goal
should be adjusted to a rating of 3 or higher.
Brown explained the roads have been rated since 2002 - 2004. He will work with Engineer Landini to
review the roadways' ratings over those years and determine some type of indicator to reflect what's
been achieved in roadway improvements. Once the indices have been determined Council should be able
to decide if the City has made progress with its roadways.
Councilmember Woodruff stated mitigation of storm water issues needs to be considered when deciding
what type of improvements should be made to a roadway. He noted residents have indicated there are
storm water issues they would like resolved as part of the proposed 2011 reconstruction of Valleywood
Circle and Valleywood Lane. He asked if the need for storm water mitigation has been factored into the
20 -Year PMP. Do any of the roadways classified for reclamation have storm water issues that need to be
addressed through reconstruction?
Director Brown stated storm water improvements will run a depth of 0 — 4 feet. Therefore, storm water
improvements can often be made without reconstructing the entire roadway. He explained that a few
years ago he proposed developing a project matrix that factored in the PASER System rating, storm water
issues and water main expansion. At that time the sitting council was either not receptive to that being
done or it did not understand his proposal well.
Councilmember Woodruff stated it's his understanding that the CIP reflects Public Works' and the City
Engineer's understanding of what will likely need to be done. The feasibility study for Star Circle and
Star Lane will validate or invalidate if the need to reconstruct them is correct. Director Brown stated they
need to be reconstructed. The borings done as part of the study will confirm how deep the issues are.
Councilmember Bailey stated no one is saying that roadways which need to be reconstructed will be
reclaimed instead. He indicated he agrees with a suggestion Councilmember Turgeon has previously
made about taking into account how much a roadway is traveled when deciding what type of
improvement is made and when it is made. An infrequently traveled road may have to have a lower
PASER System rating than others before it's considered for improvements. He stated the projected future
state of roadways currently rated as being okay needs to be factored into the 20 -Year PMP; a suggestion
he has made before.
Director Brown explained the PASER System rating already accounts for traffic volume because the
more a roadway is traveled the faster it deteriorates. He stated that from his vantage point there are very
few City roadways where traffic is an issue. They are Smithtown Road, Vine Hill Road and Covington
Road. Underlying water conditions and refuse collection trucks deteriorate the roadways more than
anything. If the number of refuse haulers could be reduced that would save the City a lot of money on
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July 26, 2010
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roadway improvements. He questioned if it might be possible to get neighborhoods to settle on one refuse
hauler. He commented that there are times when Public Works personnel are plowing streets and they see
4 — 5 haulers go down the same street. Councilmember Turgeon commented that a refuse hauler
approached the residents in her neighborhood about going with that individual hauler, and the residents
did that.
Councilmember Turgeon stated at one time the City considered reconstructing Amlee Road, Glen Road
and Manitou Lane because they were in bad shape. Due to resident resistance the roadways were just
sealcoated and the residents are happy with what was done because the roadways had not been sealcoated
for many years. Director Brown noted for now the residents are happy. Turgeon stated there are at most
30 houses along Star Circle and Star Lane and she asked if something other than reconstruction could be
done to them.
Director Brown stated he wanted to attempt to determine a cost per square yard per year for the various
types of pavement improvement methods. He thought for a roadway with reasonable underlying soils
reclamation would last 15 — 20 years. He explained the older roadways in the City were constructed
between 1970 and 1972 when the sewer system was put in. The roadways have lasted roughly 40 years.
Once the per year cost- per -yard for reconstruction, reclamation and overlay are calculated the benefits of
each improvement method can be determined. With regard to anticipation of the rating for roadways not
currently included in the 20 -Year PMP, the overall indices will help in determining if headway is being
made with roadway improvements.
Councilmember Bailey stated if the current $700,000 transfer for roadway improvements needs to be
tripled in order to make headway Council needs to know that. An increase of say $50,000 or $100,000 to
the improvement efforts could potentially make a significant difference. Council needs to know that also.
Director Brown commented that Engineer Landini and he have the opportunity to observe the state of the
roadways very frequently. Maybe because of that their perspective about making progress is skewed. He
hoped that by coming up with the indices and the cost- per -yard information Council could have a better
understanding of how the roadway program is working.
Councilmember Woodruff stated during the July 19, 2010, work session he recommended keeping the
transfer into the Street Reconstruction Fund at $700,000 rather than increasing it to $750,000. He did not
think the additional $50,000 would make much difference and the $50,000 could be used to help balance
the 2011 operating budget. He agreed that the amount of financing needed to make headway with the
roadways needs to be determined. He stated he recollected a discussion a few years ago about the useful
life of a reclaimed roadway being one half that of a reconstructed roadway and that reclamation cost
about 30% of the cost of reconstruction. It doesn't make sense to reclaim a roadway with very poor soils
and sub -soils if it's only going to last five years.
Mayor Liz6e stated a roadway has to be suited for reclamation; not all roadways are.
Director Brown stated he will not propose reclaiming roadways with very poor soils. He indicated there
are many roadways that could be reclaimed.
Councilmember Woodruff stated he thought Director Brown and Engineer Landini could come up with
information for Council that projects the useful life of a roadway if it's reconstructed, reclaimed or
overlaid and what the estimated cost to do each would be.
Councilmember Bailey stated the $700,000 transfer can be a placeholder for the moment. But, if Council
does not continue the discussion about roadway improvements and the cost to do them yet this year,
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July 26, 2010
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Council is just "kicking the can down the road ". He stated Council had a discussion in February 2009
about the long -range plans for roadways and he expressed frustration about not continuing that
discussion and how to fund the improvements. From his vantage point he did not think there was a good
10 — 20 year plan that projects what the cost to improve roadways will be and how to fund the plan.
Director Brown stated he stands behind the 20 -Year PMP, although some minor tweaking can probably
be done to the plan. The PMP is correct. He hoped that Councilmember Bailey was saying that Council
has not yet resolved how the PMP should be funded. Bailey stated that is correct, but he wants to know if
the PMP includes the deterioration of roadways currently rates as acceptable. Brown stated by using the
PASER System ratings it does.
Administrator Heck noted that Director Brown had already mentioned Staff can determine the aggregate
rating for each year starting with 2002. That information will provide additional insight.
Discussion moved on to other capital funds.
Mayor Liz6e stated Council had discussed using funds from the Technology Fund to purchase signage
inventory management software rather that using funds from the General Fund. Councilmember Turgeon
commented that currently the cost for the software is in the Engineering Budget and the cost for the
actual inventory is in the Traffic & Control Budget. Councilmember Woodruff reiterated he will not
approve the purchase of the signage software unless a cost benefit analysis has been done proving it
makes sense. Woodruff supported funding it out of the Technology Fund.
Director Brown explained the $7,000 budgeted for capital in the Public Works Budget is for mobile
radios and the base system (which is about25 years old and is fading fast). The City is required to meet
the new Federal Communications Commission's requirements. There was consensus to fund these capital
purchases out of the Technology Fund.
Administrator Heck recapped he will change the Local Street Reconstruction CIP to reflect a transfer of
$700,000 rather than $750,000. He will make the changes to the General Fund regarding the signage
software and mobile radio and base system replacement. He will program the Technology Fund to
include the $5700 purchase of signage software and the $7000 purchase of mobile radios and the base
system.
3. ADJOURN
Turgeon moved, Woodruff seconded, Adjourning the City Council Work Session of July 26, 2010,
at 7:00 P.M. Motion passed 510.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
Christine Freeman, Recorder
S
Christine Lizee, Mayor
ATTEST
Bpia�' AdmJ'istr ator /Clerk --