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02-11-13 CC & Park Comm WS MinCITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 11, 2013 IT11Ztell �.`! 1. CONVENE WORK SESSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS 6:00 PM Mayor Zerby called the meeting to order at 6:04 P.M. A. Roll Call Present: Mayor Zerby; Councilmembers Hotvet, Siakel and Sundberg; Administrator Joynes; Finance Director DeJong; Planning Director Nielsen; and, Director of Public Works Brown Park Commission Chair Quinlan; Park Commissioners Edmondson, Hartmann, Kjolhaug, and Mangold Absent: Councilmember Woodruff, Park Commissioners Gordon and. Swaggert B. Review Agenda Hotvet moved, Hartmann seconded, approving the agenda as presented. Motion passed 9/0. Mayor Zerby welcomed the Park Commissioners. He asked all Councilmembers and Park Commissioners to introduce them self. Director Nielsen stated when the Park Commission was reviewing the Park Capital Improvement Program (CIP) and its work plan for 2013 it became apparent that the plans for some of the City's parks, most notably Badger Park, outstrip the budget for the Park CIP. He noted if the CIP were followed the Park Improvement Fund would have about a $500,000 deficit at the end of 2014. He stated that based on some comments made by Councilmembers it appears prudent to revisit plans for Badger Park. Badger Park improvements total an estimated cost of $677,000. Nielsen explained that in 2009 the City commissioned TKDA consultants to update the City's Parks Master Plan. The previous plans for Badger Park somewhat suggested it was a community park with athletic facilities for organized sports. The revised plan takes some of the organized sports activities out of Badger Park and moves them over to Freeman Park. Freeman Park is largely intended for organized sports. Badger Park would be made into more of a civic campus. The Master Plan for Badger Park proposed a courtyard area near City Hall. It removes the hockey rink. It also moves the tennis courts. Those are fairly expensive things to do. Nielsen stated after reviewing its work program the Park Commission decided it was prudent to push the improvements that were originally slated for Badger Park in 2013 out to 2014. That gives the Commission time to again study the vision for Badger Park. This evening the Commission would like CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION February 11, 2013 Page 2 of 8 Council to provide some guidance on what it wants for a vision for parks in general, and especially for Badger Park. Chair Quinlan stated Director Nielsen provided a good overview and a little bit of history. He then expanded upon Nielsen's overview. He explained Badger Park has been a topic of debate J discussion for at least two years for the Park Commission. The Commission has gone through numerous exercises related to the vision for Badger Park. The former City Administrator did a good job of organizing the Commission's comments into a coherent plan. One item that always surfaces as a contentious issue is what to do about the hockey rink. Keeping a hockey rink in Badger Park somewhat conflicts with the vision for a campus -like environment. He noted people, residents included, are passionate about hockey. At times there have been intense discussions about keeping the rink in Badger Park, moving it to Freeman Park or eliminating it and using Manitou Park in the City of Tonka Bay instead. Quinlan then stated that during this meeting the Park Commission would like to get some insight from Council about the improvements to Badger Park included in the Park CIP. If Council thinks some of the improvements will never happen, the Commission would like to know that. There is no point in having the Commission debate something that Council is not going to approve. He asked if eliminating the hockey rink at Badger Park is something Council would consider. He noted that the need for outside rinks for organized hockey has been declining. He explained that moving the hockey rink to Freeman Park would have its own set of engineering challenges. He noted that the overall vision for Badger Park hinges on the decision about what to do with the hockey rink. He suggested that be the main focus of what is talked about this evening. Once the decision about the hockey rink is made everything else somewhat falls into place. He stated the current skating structure has very little life left. Whatever would be built in the future will be dictated by the type of skating there may be at the Park. Commissioner Edmondson stated the ground condition at Badger Park is very problematic. Director Nielsen stated for the most part Badger Park is an old filled in wetland. The soils are very bad and will require correction for anything that is done. He explained the tennis court area is relatively stable, but it still creates a problem for the surface. The option for building a hockey rink in Freeman Park will either take some of the current parking away or there will be utilities that will have to be moved. Two meetings ago the Park Commission discussed alternatives that appear to make building a rink in Freeman Park feasible. Soils are better in Freeman Park than in Badger Park. Lighting would have to be installed in Freeman Park; either the lighting from Badger Park or new lighting. He noted modern hockey rinks are done with a paved surface, but that has ups and downs. He commented there seems to be an interest in pickle ball. A paved surface could lend itself to that activity rather than on existing tennis courts. Commissioner Edmondson stated eight months out of the year the hockey rink area is not used. It is an expensive piece of property that sits unused. If the surface of the hockey rink could be multi - purposed, that would improve the value of that space. He then stated the warming house is barely hanging on. Councilmember Sundberg asked if there are utilization figures on all of the park facilities such as hockey rinks, baseball and football fields, and tennis courts. Chair Quinlan stated information about organized sports usage can be assembled. Commissioner Edmonson stated hockey organizations want to skate on indoor ice rather than outdoor ice. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION February 11, 2013 Page 3 of 8 Councilmember Siakel stated one -half mile west and one -half mile north of Badger Park there are two hockey rinks. Revamping the rink at Badger Park would be an economic and an environmental challenge. She noted that she does not think there is a need for a hockey rink in Badger Park. She likes the idea of a civic campus. She support keeping the tennis courts and spending some money on them. She stated she recently attended a Sensible Land Use Coalition session where interesting ideas about planned spaces were presented. She then stated some of the area in Badger Park could be open, free space. She noted she thought the City does a nice job with the parks it has. She stated she does not think the Parks Master Plan has to be followed. Chair Quinlan clarified that the Park Commission has been using the Parks Master Plan as a guideline. The Commission understands that implementing that plan is not financially feasible. The Commission has not been looking at the Plan as the goal. Councilmember Sundberg stated next month Council is going to discuss a vision for the Southshore Community Center (SSCC). There should be coordinated visioning for Badger Park and the SSCC. There are also some possible collaborative activities with other South Lake communities. She cautioned against going in opposite directions. Mayor Zerby stated the Parks Master Plan was revised by TKDA in May 2009. One year later the City assumed responsibility for managing and operating the SSCC. The Plan does relate to the SSCC at all. He noted that he had a discussion with Mrs. M, a user of the SSCC, and she told him there is not enough parking at the SSCC to support larger groups. He stated he thought it prudent to find a way to carve out some parking. He thought finding a new place for the storage building /garage would be worthwhile. He then stated he thought there should be a way to incorporate the SSCC with Badger Park. Chair Quinlan stated the SSCC has changed the Park Commission's thinking along with the trail on the other side of the wetland. Another thing that has changed the Commission's thinking is the notion of the redevelopment of the Smithtown Crossing area and the proposed trail that will go from the Lake Minnetonka Light Rail Trail (LRT) on the east side of County Road 19 in Shorewood to in front of the Tonka Village Shopping Center in Tonka Bay (the County Road 19 trail segment). There would be a very walkable system between SSCC, City Hall, Badger Park, the Smithtown Crossing Gideon Glen and Manitou Park. Mayor Zerby mentioned the idea of having a gazebo area in Badger Park. It would be a place where a small wedding could take place with room for a small band. There should also be a safe walkway to SSCC. He stated from a finance perspective he challenged Council to come up with the maximum amount it is willing to spend on the Park. He then stated Jeff Casale, a Shorewood resident who is on the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District's (MCWD) Board of Managers, told Council there could possibly be some grant money available for initiatives in the Park from the MCWD because it was a former wetland. Mr. Casale discussed a possibility of installing some underground storage tanks to help collect stormwater and then discharge it. He noted the concerns about moisture problems in the basement in City Hall. He encouraged the idea of trying to partner with the MCWD and to pursue grant funding. Councilmember Sundberg asked if there is a way to enhance the City's economic development opportunities in the commercial area on the southeast corner of the County Road 19 and Smithtown Crossing intersection. CITY OF SHORE WOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION February 11, 2013 Page 4 of 8 Commissioner Mangold stated he lives in the neighborhood that backs up to Badger Park. He explained the property owners that back up to the Park use the new nature trail that was built around the back side of the pond rather than going north on Country Club Road to the Smithtown Crossing intersection. They take the trail through the woods and then they cross over County Road 19 near the public safety facility to connect with sidewalk there. He noted people have to know there is a trail through the woods. Councilmember Hotvet asked if a trail directly connecting to the SSCC on the north side of the parking lot could be considered. She stated it would make a lot of sense if there were to be an outdoor center. Councilmember Siakel stated if the tennis courts were moved as indicated in the Parks Master Plan that space would be freed up. She then stated there are not a lot of amenities for walkers or bikers around Badger Park. She suggested the Park Commission decide what could be phased in over 3 — 4 years. She stated from her perspective the hockey rink in Badger Park needs to go away. The hockey rink is somewhat of a hazard as is the warming house. Councilmember Hotvet stated hockey is her sport and she loves it. She then stated during hockey season there is a lot of activity at the rink at various times of the day. She went on to state a multi - purpose area would be a good idea. Chair Quinlan stated the Park Commission has discussed having an area for free skating. He questioned if the people who are using the rink now would use it for free skating. He stated when he drives by Cathcart Park it appears the rink there gets a lot of use. There is a lot of people free skating. Commissioner Hartmann stated that as long as there is a lighted rink at Badger Park it would get used more. Mayor Zerby stated he thought it is too expensive to move the tennis courts. Chair Quinlan stated the opportune time to relocate them is when the courts need to be redone completely. Councilmember Hotvet stated the courts must get used a lot. Commissioner Edmondson commented the courts will have to be resurfaced eventually. Director Nielsen stated based on how the versa courts work at Manor Park that could possibly be considered for the courts in Badger Park. Councilmember Hotvet stated from her perspective there is too much going on at Badger Park at times. She noted tennis, hockey and football are played there. It is basically a sports campus. She agreed with incorporating the SSCC as a park facility and suggested the Park be greened up a little. Councilmember Sundberg stated an outdoor music venue would broaden the audience that comes to Badger Park. There is not a lot of that in the South Lake area. Councilmember Siakel questioned what the focal point is. Is it the SSCC, the tennis courts or the hockey rink? She stated from her perspective the SSCC and the tennis courts are unique pieces. She then stated keeping hockey at Badger Park is cost prohibitive. It would be economically and environmentally really difficult. Commissioner Edmondson stated for four years he has wanted to get something up near where the SSCC is for events. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION February 11, 2013 Page 5 of 8 Mayor Zerby suggested people consider turning the hockey rink into parking, leaving the tennis courts in their current location, adding some trails and greenery, and adding some trails that connect to the SSCC and Badger Park. Councilmember Hotvet stated it seems people come to Badger Park for utilitarian purposes. For example, their child has some type of sports game, they want to play tennis or there is an event at the SSCC they want to attend. Councilmember Siakel stated she thought more people would come to Badger Park if there were things other than just sports activities. She stated getting into Excelsior is an issue as is parking when there are larger events at the Commons. What could be offered at Badger Park could be complimentary. Mayor Zerby stated the SSCC is a bit of a boat anchor. The City needs to do what it can to be supportive and give it what it can to make it successful. He thought Badger Park is one of the best ways to do that at this time. There are some things that could be done to the building to also help. He then stated having a park with a community center next to it is a bonus. Commissioner Hartmann stated if the hockey rink was removed from Badger Park and one was built in Freeman Park it would require removing some of the parking area or part of a ball field. She noted she would not support removing some of the ball field. Councilmember Siakel stated one may not be needed in Freeman Park because there is a hockey rink in Cathcart Park. She then stated that maybe the City could financially help make the rink better that is in Manitou Park in Tonka Bay. Siakel recommended having one hockey rink that is well done. Councilmember Hotvet questioned why Freeman Park is not be used for skating in some fashion; to play hockey or for free skating. There is a beautiful warming house there. And, it's quiet and dark all winter long. Mayor Zerby stated there appears to be a lot of green space in Freeman Park that could be used for a skating area. Chair Quinlan stated during the last Park Commission meeting there was discussion about three options Public Works put together of where to put a rink. Each had their pros and cons. They all were feasible but none were ideal from an engineering perspective. Commissioner Mangold stated an idea that recently came up is about a larger free skate area. The free skating outside of the hockey rink is significantly smaller than the hockey rink space. If the free skate area at Freeman Park was sizable, he questioned if it might be more exciting and useful. He asked if a larger free skate area could be considered with some boards, but not a large hockey rink. He stated the hockey rink at Badger Park is unsightly all summer long. He then stated a rink for skating of any type is tough on turf. He clarified he is pushing for a skating area over some portion of the parking lot at Freeman Park and having the area lighted. Chair Quinlan stated one option would be to have a multi- surface surface for free skating that would also have hockey boards around in some spots. The boards could be taken off and it would be a hard surface for something else in the summer. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION February 11, 2013 Page 6 of 8 Commissioner Mangold stated the level of recreational hockey being played may only require nets that can be moved around. Councilmember Sundberg suggested pausing for a little while in order to find out what the plan for the SSCC is going to be. Badger Park and the SSCC can in part be planned together. Chair Quinlan stated there is some urgency to, at a minimum, decide in 2013 what to do with the hockey rink. Once a decision is made regarding skating amenities at Badger Park than everything else will fall into place. Mayor Zerby stated what he has heard is there is an interest to explore something for hockey at Freeman Park without affecting the ball fields and a willingness to take the hockey rink out of Badger Park. Councilmember Siakel it's her understanding that a portable rink that could be taken down would cost over $200,000. Chair Quinlan clarified that would be for a full hockey rink. Siakel stated that would be cost prohibitive. Councilmember Hotvet asked if anyone has spoken with Minnetonka Youth Hockey to find out if they would use a hockey rink at Freeman Park. Chair Quinlan stated a few years ago the parks coordinator did and she received a lukewarm response to use the City's rinks for organized hockey. The movement was to use indoor cooled rinks for six months. Hotvet stated she is in agreement about finding a way to have skating at Freeman Park. She then stated she likes Commissioner Mangold's idea of keeping something at Badger Park. Commissioner Hartmann stated if there is going to be free skating at Badger Park there needs to be a warming facility. Commissioner Edmondson stated the warming facility could also be used for a picnic shelter and as an outside entertainment venue. It would have to be a multi -use facility. Commissioner Mangold clarified he is in favor of moving free skating and a full scale hockey rink to Freeman Park. Something smaller could be maintained at Badger Park. Mayor Zerby stated he would like the Park Commission to take the comments from this evening and draw up a simple conceptual diagram of where things would be located. Commissioner Hartmann asked how to move MCWD involvement forward. Mayor Zerby stated people just have to meet with representatives from the MCWD. Hartmann noted the last time they wanted to have a plan presented to them. Chair Quinlan stated once there is a specific plan for what to do with Badger Park it would appropriate to approach the MCWD to ask how it could be of help. Mayor Zerby asked Director Nielsen what it will take to get a plan together. Nielsen stated that was hinging on this meeting, noting it is a high priority on the Park Commission's work program. Nielsen stated he will have concept sketches for the Park Commission's March meeting. Nielsen then stated Staff can begin meeting with the MCWD soon about the box culvert that will be installed as a bridge for the rustic trail to connect to Badger Park. Zerby questioned if the end of April will be enough time. Nielsen stated there can be concepts available by then. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION February 11, 2013 Page 7 of 8 Councilmember Hotvet stated it is important to make sure that residents understand that a hockey rink at Freeman Park being considered as is removing it from Badger Park. Commissioner Hartmann stated one of the draws of having skating is to have the area lighted. If there is to be a lighted hockey rink at Freeman Park, she asked if there is anyway to have a lighted ball field over there. Director Brown stated there are not any lights at Freeman Park now. Director Nielsen stated moving the hockey rink to Freeman Park would include either moving the current lighting or installing new lighting. Hartmann asked if the adult softball field at Freeman Park could also be lighted. K�W.11 s7 Ct.Y1JTi lu 1 Big ►t 1 a �[ 0*1 Director Nielsen explained one item on the Park Commission's work program is to have a joint meeting with other park commissioners in the South Lake area to talk about sharing facilities, activities or events. The Park Commission is interested in renewing some type of summer activity because Arctic Fever has gone over very well. There has been discussion about reviving Music in the Park. The City of Excelsior has reduced its Music in the Park events to five events. The Commission wonders if there would be an opportunity for rotating Music in the Park between the South Lake cities and to promote it more broadly. The Commission wants to make sure that Shorewood does not compete with Excelsior on any given evening. Commissioner Edmondson stated there is already some music events planned for the Commons in Excelsior. He then stated to some degree the bandshell in the Common's is a community at large bandshell. It would be worthwhile for the communities to collaborate on how to make it a better venue. Councilmember Hotvet noted there is a bandshell resident group filing to be its own foundation. Councilmember Siakel asked if there has been any response from the other South Lake park commissioners as to whether or not they will attend. Director Nielsen explained the only thing sent to them so far is a save the date notice. During the next Park Commission meeting the Commission will comment on a draft letter about the specifics of the meeting and the letter will be sent out the following day. Mayor Zerby stated there are a lot of synergies to be capitalized on. Shorewood has a lot of ball fields. Excelsior has only one and it is lighted. He then stated shared transportation could be something to talk about being there is not a lot of parking in Excelsior for events. Chair Quinlan stated there is also the idea of cross promoting. Councilmember Hotvet stated there could be a South Lake parks and recreation group that is head quartered in the SSCC. The fact that there are three groups managing the parks within the South Lake area seems like overkill. Commissioner Edmondson stated he did not think the City of Tonka Bay had much of a parks and recreation committee. Excelsior does and Greenwood does not. Councilmember Siakel noted that Tonka Bay has some amenities Shorewood does not have. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION February 11, 2013 Page 8 of 8 Chair Quinlan stated there could be value in having an ad hoc committee with representatives from the South Lake park commissions. Councilmember Hotvet stated from her vantage point the SSCC should be in the park system and be a park facility. Commissioner Hartmann stated the challenge will be to get people to open up to a broader vision. Mayor Zerby stated he is pleased that people contributed a lot of information this evening. He thanked the Park Commissioners for coming and for sharing their ideas. He related his motto is "let's have fun and make a difference ". 4. ADJOURN Edmondson moved, Quinlan seconded, Adjourning the Work Session of the City Council and Park Commission of February 11, 2013, at 6:55 P.M. Motion passed 9/0. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Christine Freeman, Recorder Scott rby Mayor ATTEST: Jean Panchyshyn, -City C erk