05-20-13 CC WS MinCITY OF SHOREWOOD
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
MONDAY, MAY 20, 2013
MINUTES
1. CONVENE CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Mayor Zerby called the meeting to order at 5:04 P.M.
A. Roll Call
Present. Mayor Zerby; Councilmembers Hotvet,
Keane; Administrator Joynes; Clerk
Communications Coordinator Moore; Par k
Commissioner Dietz
5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
6:00 P.M.
Siakel, Sandberg, and Woodruff; Attojsey
Panchyshyn; Finance Director DeJong;
& Recreation Coordinator Grout; and, Park
Also Present: SouthShore Senior Partners Members: Board President Bob Newman; Board Secretary
Theresa Zerby; Boardmembers / Visioning Steering Committee Members Tina
Brandhorst, Linda Freeman and Sandy Hotvet; Visioning Steering Committee Member
Chris Lizee; and, consultant to SSSP Barb Strandell, of Strandell and Associates
Absent: None
B. Review Agenda
Siaket moved, Hotvet seconded, approving the agenda as presented. Motion passed 5/0.
2. SOUTHSHORE SENIOR PARTNERS PRESENTATION
Mayor Zerby stated he has invited the members of the SouthShore Senior Partners (SSSP) present this
evening to sit at the table with Council and Staff to talk about the recent evolution of SSSP and its
relationship to the Southshore Community Center (SSCC) to its current status into the future.
SSSP President Newman explained four years ago the SSCC survived a near cataclysmic event; the sale
of the building and the elimination of a community asset. It caught SSSP amid a period of uncertainty.
There was a loss of funding and professional leadership at a time of the SSCC's greatest vulnerability.
That event did precipitate an introspective and cathartic process of self - analysis.
Many things began to occur. Jan Gray led a group people 55' years of age with the goal of clarifying its
direction and outlining a plan to recover from the tentative situation. Ms. Gray called the effort "Restore,
Renew, Revive and Rejuvenate ". It reenergized existing programs, expanded programs, eliminated
programs and created new ones. This was to lead SSSP / SSSC through a temporary stabilization period
of a couple of years max. The effort was very successful. Now, four years later, thanks to a group of very
hands -on, dedicated and determined SSSP volunteers, things are where they are today. During the four
years things have gone through a number of evolutionary changes. It's been proven that there is
sustainable interest and support, vitality and potential for more. It has become evident that the volunteers
have been tapping out the limits of their abilities to optimize the use of the SSCC as an asset. It is time to
evolve yet again.
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If the goal is to evolve to a better and stronger place then taking the SSCC to a new level will require
growth- oriented change and a partnership with resources and abilities SSSP does not possess alone. SSSP
understands the SSCC is more than a senior center. SSSP has tried to bypass the label of senior center.
After due consideration, SSSP has assembled its vision of what the "NewCen" might look like with the
55` age group as a major participant. A new brand would be created — new vision, new name, new
mission and new governance plan.
SSSP (perhaps the "Friends" going forward) will join forces and walk "arm and arm" with Shorewood on
a new path. SSSP feels its path and Shorewood's path are separate but parallel. If that is true then why
not walk one path together. As such, the two entities interlace with representatives on each other's
Boards.
SSSP would become a more advisory and less leadership initiative type group. It does not intend to go
away. It has been very hands on for a long time; it does not want to get into a situation where it turns
everything over to Shorewood. SSSP wants to continue and participate. But, SSSP does not think it is its
decision to decide how it should participate. That is a team decision. SSSP is altering its role to one of
advisory and as a partner with Shorewood. SSSP hopes to assist and contribute to the extent the City
feels it can and should.
In the new plan the City would support and endorse the NewCen and the 55` age group in the
community. It becomes its own manager and develops its own organizational model. The City would
develop its own vision of how the two organizations should walk the path. This is SSSP's vision; it has
not presumed to create one for the City.
The SSCC and the associated activities it affords becomes part of the City's stable quality -of -life
enhancement assets; like parks, tennis courts, hockey rinks, skateboard parks, riding and walking paths,
ball fields, gardens and more. The SSCC would be another asset the people in the community enjoy. As
part of this the City would designate certain funds for the 55` age group programs and activities. SSSP
would assist with fundraising through memberships, specific activities and appeals to other cities to "join
in ". That would require some serious thought about how strategically SSSP and the City might appeal to
the other cities to join in financially. The SSCC was built as a cooperative effort between the Cities of
Deephaven, Excelsior, Greenwood, Shorewood and T onka Bay, The other four cities already have a stake
in the SSCC. But, going forward people have to find a way to re- convince them to participate and to
reinvest. SSSP would be willing to participate in that with the City, but it would not want to do that on its
own.
A professional with experience in the field would be hired to lead and coordinate. While SSSP volunteers
have done a remarkable job soldiering on with initiative efforts and management efforts and day -to -day
activities, they need a general in charge to win the war. With a professional like there used to be for the
SSCC that type of individual can draw the best from the volunteers and maximize and optimize their
impact on how the SSCC is managed. SSSP would continue as a 501 -c(3) organization.
SSSP has not presumed to identify any roles the City may play moving forward or what its vision and
management model might look like. It would be interested in participating in identifying that. It would
like to hear what the City's vision for the SCSC is and what its relationship with SSSP would look like.
SSSP would like to hear what the City's perspective is about working together with SSSP as a partner.
SSSP would like to hear what the City's view is on developing the potential at the NewCen.
This concludes SSSP President NTewman's remarks.
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Councilmember Siakel expressed she is delighted that Park Commissioner Dietz is present. She stated
she has been serving as the liaison to the Park Commission and that the Commission has been discussing
the redevelopment of the Badger Park / City Hall / SSCC area. It would like it to have more of a campus
feel with less attention about City Hall and more about the SSCC. She then stated from her vantage point
there is a voice lacking about the SSCC and how it can potentially fit in, and possibly the use of that as a
campus in the future. She commented that there has been discussion about some type of band stand.
Siakel stated that more interaction between SSSP and the Park Commission would be beneficial. It would
help in serving the needs of the older residents and help in making sure the right thing is done in
developing the area. A consistent voice from the community would be helpful. She noted during
Council's March 23 retreat, Councilmember Hotvet suggested establishing a board to help create the
vision for the campus.
Siakel explained the City spends about $40,000 a year on its parks. The list of all of the activities money
is spent on does not include much if any funding for activities for the 55` age group. She indicated she
thought the City could do a better job there. She stated she thought SSSP President Newman's comments
about the City and SSSP working together makes sense. She asked how to draw on the other four cities
that are also joint owners of the SSCC to help keep the SSCC in operation. She expressed she has some
concern about that not happening. She stated she has a couple ideas of how to approach that. She
recapped that the City / Park and Recreation Department needs to identify how to work with SSSP, it
needs to decide how to develop the campus and it needs to decide how to work with the other four cities
to engage them again. She stated she does not think the SSCC needs to make money but it would be
helpful it the operations could come close to breaking even.
SSSP President Newman stated he concurred with Councilmember Siakel's comments that the 55` age
group have not been brought into recreation very much. He noted the percent of residents 55� years of age
in the South Lake area is steadily growing as is the percent over 65' years of age.
Councilmember Siakel stated the concept of aging in place impacts all of the South Lake communities.
She then stated she thought a better job could be done of having programs for the 551 age group. She
recommended drawing more people into the process of building the vision for the SSCC. She noted
transportation is an issue. Maybe a local church or volunteer drivers could help with that.
SSSP President Newman stated that he thought collectively SSSP and the City could work on the
financing issue. He noted SSSP has worked hard to raise funds for specific projects for the 55` age group.
He stated Shorewood is the largest city in the South Lake community and it has always been the leader
on issues, causes, programs and so forth. He then stated he thought if Shorewood stepped forward and
told people the SSCC is a viable and worthwhile enterprise it would pave the way to go to the other
South Lake cities with an organized approach. Shorewood should not stand alone in this. He went on to
state that he could appeal to Greenwood (he is a resident and a former mayor of Greenwood), which has
supported the SSCC in the past, to help develop a strategy that would yield support from the other three
cities. If Shorewood were to hire a park and recreation director with professional experience and
experience working with the 55' age group things would be more efficient.
In response to a question from Councilmember Sundberg, Councilmember Hotvet explained she thought
that establishing a South Lake Park and Recreation Board would be a good way to pull agencies together.
Hotvet stated from her perspective the SSCC has the capacity to be the headquarters for a South Lake
park and recreation department for at least Excelsior, Shorewood and Tonka Bay and possibly even
Deephaven and Greenwood.
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Councilmember Sandberg stated she thought there is a lot of support for developing the SSCC. The
question is how? She agreed that with the Shorewood Council's proactive support it will help with
approaching the other communities. She noted she supports becoming a little more aggressive in trying to
decide what to do with the SSCC.
SSSP President Newman clarified he was referring to developing a very carefully thought out strategic
plan for going to the other four cities. He noted the SSCC has been around for about 18 years. He
explained when the five cities decided to build the SSCC there was a promise that there would be no
further financial involvement. That may have been nice then, but in 18 years things have changed. It's
important to evaluate things as they are today. He stated from his vantage point it is a bit much for the
other four cities to hold on to that agreement and refuse to participate and acknowledge that the situation
is different. Some of the other four cities may be willing to become more involved while others may be
more resistant to change. He commented that the fact that the SSCC is extremely worthwhile will be
helpful. He stated each of the cities has a growing percentage of residents who would take advantage of
the programs offered.
Mayor Zerby stated he thought it would be possible to get there with a strategic plan. He noted the
Shorewood Council has supported the SSCC for a long time. Shorewood has kept it running in some
capacity for over three years and during that time it learned a lot of lessons. He then stated Shorewood
needs SSSP's help in reaching out to the other four cities. He commented that he shrinks when he hears
the SSCC referred to as a community center because right now it is a city center. He explained
Shorewood funded 50 percent of the construction of the SSCC. Shorewood is now paying for almost 100
percent to keep it operational.
Zerby explained he recently attended a regional council of mayors. One of the people in attendance who
works with the State Legislature stated five phone calls to state representatives can make a difference in
getting some action. On a city level if two or three residents of each city would call their elected officials
it would make a difference. If one person calls a member of the Shorewood Council it usually makes a
difference. He noted four years ago hundreds of people came to show their support for saving the SSCC.
He stated if 20 of those people would go to each city council and explain help is needed to keep the
SSCC running it would make a difference. It's hard for councils to do that unless residents push the need
for financial participation forward.
SSSP President Newman stated that is the type of idea that comes out of a brainstorming meeting. The
collective imaginations of people from groups such as the 55` age group, the Council, and someone from
the Shorewood Park Commission can produce some good ideas about what to do and how to do it. He
noted he agrees that it will take somewhat of a grass roots effort. Mayor Zerby stated it has to happen city
by city.
Councilmember Hotvet stated one of Shorewood's most successful efforts during the last year was the
public meeting at the Minnewashta Elementary School about the Smithtown Road west sidewalk project.
Getting people together in an area where they don't feel intimidated is very effective. Being led by a
grass roots effort of residents made it more effective. Mandating something from a policy level can be
difficult. But when something bubbles up from the residents within each city it can be more effective.
She then stated bringing residents to the SSCC if they have not been there before would be important.
Even more important would be to go to where the people are.
Councilmember Siakel stated the resident survey results indicated there are many Shorewood residents
who have never been to the SSCC or don't know where it is at. She indicated she thought it would be
very helpful to make people aware of the SSCC. She expressed her support for having a professional full -
time presence at the SSCC. She explained that earlier in the year there was a Park Summit of
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representatives from the various South Lake area park commissions /groups. Another summit is scheduled
for May 21. She noted she thought the SSCC should fall under the park, recreation and culture budget
rather than being a separate budget. She stated from her vantage point the 55' age group is part of the
culture of the community. She then stated she agrees with Councilmember Hotvet's idea of creating a
South Lake park and recreation organization. A component of that would be programming for the SSCC.
She questioned if it should be a community wide approach to have a full -time person and funding it. She
stated there is the problem of getting the other four cities to come to the table. She noted there was a lot
of sharing during the first Park Summit about sharing what events are being planned in order to avoid
duplication. The SSCC came up as part of that discussion.
Councilmember Hower stated she is part of a multi- generational family in the South Lake area. She
recommended the vision for the SSCC should be considered from a multi - generational perspective.
Councilmember Siakel stated Council was not provided with SSCC use information. She asked if seniors
use the SSCC a couple of times a week. She stated the SSCC is rented out quite a bit and used for a
variety of things.
SSSP Secretary Zerby stated there are senior activities at the SSCC every Monday through Friday
sometime between 8:00 AM to 3:30 P.M.
Councilmember Woodruff stated he has been associated with discussions about funding shortfalls for the
SSCC as far back as 2007. He then stated four years ago "the wheels came off'. There was discussion
among the five cities that built the SSCC about what would happen with the operations of the SSCC
going forward. During the discussions there was a lot of finger pointing going on about who would
assume responsibility. At that time Shorewood stepped up to the plate and signed up for a three -year
management stint.
Woodruff then stated this evening he sees some of the same faces that were talking about the SSCC in
2007. He suggested getting new people involved although he was not sure how to do that. He noted that
talking to ourselves has not been very productive. He stated the challenge will be in how to prove there is
value to the other four cities so that they will become engaged. They have been uninvolved for more than
the last three years. He noted that two of the other four cities did donate money toward the purchase of
the digital sign for the SSCC. He then noted the other two have not contributed one dime toward the
operation, support, maintenance or capital needs of the SSCC. He interprets that to mean the residents
have not told their elected officials that they think the SSCC is a useful entity. He stated if the South
Lake residents and elected officials don't want anything to do with the SSCC then there is no point in
hying to push this forward. He noted that the City and SSSP need to determine what the value
proposition is.
Woodruff went on to state for the last three years a goal has been to largely serve the senior community
and that was done largely through the work of SSSP while trying to figure out what the SSCC would be
to the rest of the five -city community. It appeared that things were working out until last summer when
things fell apart financially. He asked how much Shorewood is willing to contribute toward supporting
the SSCC based on the value received by Shorewood residents. The other four cities will have to answer
the same question, noting right now they are not contributing anything so they don't care.
Councilmember Siakel stated although the financial component is important she does not think it is the
most important thing that should drive the decisions about the SSCC. She then stated Council has to
decide if the SSCC is a viable asset. Is it something to support? She noted she thought it is. She agreed
the SSCC has been a financial drain and that is the biggest challenge. She stated it's easy to take
something out of the budget. Being a leader and building a community is the tough part; that is what
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Council is elected to do. She then stated people have heard very clearly from the community that it wants
the SSCC. She commented that there are people who just naturally step up to the task. Maybe they
become the voice. She does not have a problem with that. She stated it goes back to the visioning, the
development of the campus and the future for the SSCC. After that is done the other things will fall in
line. She does not think strong arming the other four cities and forcing or mandating that they pony up
today is a good way to approach them. She noted that if after developing a vision the other four cities still
do not want to participate then there needs to be some type of agreement so that the Shorewood can
recoup its operating and capital costs off the top if / when the building is sold.
SSSP President Newman stated that over time SSSP has continually carried an impression that the SSSC
houses programs for seniors and other enterprises that will rent the facility. SSSP has realized there is a
lot of activity at the SSCC. He then stated SSSP has asked itself if it is worth all of the effort that it has
taken SSSP members to put out a newsletter, to fundraise, and to create programs such as the Shining
Stars. He then stated it comes back to how to measure quality of life issues in a community. If assets like
the walking paths, the skate board park, the tennis courts, the soccer fields, and the baseball fields are
taken away then what is there left in a city for its residents. Not a whole lot. If residents want to have a
quality of life in the community he questioned how they would do that. He noted it is difficult to place a
value of each one of those amenities. It's hard to place a quantitative number on a qualitative issue. Yet,
there is value in the amenities. He suggested taking the quality of fife amenities in the community to the
other cities rather than taking the numbers to the cities. He noted that in 2009 people with one day's
notice flooded a meeting room to voice their opinion about wanting to keep the SSCC.
Mayor Zerby noted he wanted to wrap -up the presentation portion of the agenda.
Councilmember Woodruff clarified that he does not want to shut the SSCC down. He stated a large
number of the Shorewood resident survey respondents indicated they do not come to the SSCC.
Therefore, he questions why the SSCC should remain in operation. If there is a way to make it attractive
to more people that should be done. He then stated from his vantage point the status quo has not been
very successful.
Councilmember Siakel noted the City took some action related to the SSCC after the survey was done
based on the results of the survey.
Councilmember Woodruff stated from his perspective the Shorewood Council has to decide if it believes
the qualitative benefits of having programs at the SSCC from a financial standpoint are worth it. He then
stated there are other City dollars that are competing for the dollars being spent on the SSCC. He went on
to state that a couple of years ago about 3,000 children signed up to play ball on the ball fields in the
City -owned parks. Councilmember Siakel noted not all of those children lived in Shorewood. Woodruff
commented that he went to a candidate forum last fall and about 25 percent of the people there did not
live in any of the five cities.
SSSP President Newman stated that no matter what survey is presented to residents there is going to be a
large number of respondents who will indicate they do not use a particular asset in the city. An attempt
will be made to use the results to prove something is not valued and therefore should not be funded. He
asked what about seniors who don't use soccer fields, ball fields and so forth. People don't want to help
fund things they do not use.
Councilmember Woodruff stated lots of seniors use the walking paths in the parks and bike in the parks.
He then stated from his perspective the discussion about the SSCC needs to focus on value. He
questioned how to build a value proposition that attracts people to the SSCC. He asked if the Shorewood
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Council and the other four city councils are willing to provide the funding to support the value
proposition.
Councilmember Sundberg acknowledged the financials have to be taken into account. She stated based
on the little research she has done on community centers they are all supported by the community. She
then stated the SSCC is already a very valuable asset. She suggested moving the focus away from the
financials for now and focus instead on how to improve the value of it to the community.
SSSP President Newman stated he though a lot of Councilmember Woodruffs points are valid and
worthy of discussion. FIe then stated he would like there to be a mixed forum, solution oriented
discussion between Council and SSSP and anyone else that wants to be involved about how to fund the
SSPP.
Councilmember Siakel stated if the financials are put first then that is where time and energy will be
focused. That is problematic. If the starting point is the SSCC is a viable asset and that it is something to
build upon then the financial piece fits. If the process is only guided by numbers, that is the wrong
approach to take.
SSSP President Newman thanked Council for its time and the opportunity to present this. Ile noted
Woody Love would have been present this evening but he is at a memorial service for Bill Gillespie.
Mayor Zerby invited the representatives from SSSP to stay if they would like.
3. SOUT ISHORE COMMUNITY CENTER DISCUSSION
Mayor Zerby noted the meeting packet contains a substantial amount of Southshore Community Center
(SSCC) related information assembled by staff.
Administrator Joynes stated the discussion just before this was very pertinent to this discussion. He
explained that during the March 2013 Council and staff day -long retreat and one of the issues discussed
was the SSCC. Staff provided information about the current financial situation for the Center for the
retreat. The discussion at the Council level was broad. No two Councilmembers had the same idea about
what they wanted to do with the SSCC. This work session was scheduled because of that discussion. The
information included in the packet tries to provide Council with the nuts and bolts about the current
situation and some projections about what it might take to provide additional programming.
Administrator Joynes displayed a slide he used during the retreat showing the expenditures and fund
balance for the SSCC for 2013 — 2021. The anticipated expenditures assume current operations. The fund
balance declines over time. Under the current legal agreement Shorewood is responsible for the fund
balance. Shorewood takes money out of its General Fund to subsidize SSCC operations; the gap between
revenues and expenditures.
Councilmember Woodruff stated the chart for the SSCC shows a positive balance though 2016. He asked
how that could possibly be. Director DeJong explained it was based off the budgeted amount, noting the
budget is under about $40,000.
Administrator Joynes displayed a slide showing a snapshot of what has happened for the last two years.
He explained the 2012 operating deficit was $66,463. The actual deficit between revenues and
expenditures was $47,552. The transfer in from the General Fund was $13,600. There was also
approximately $5,000 of Shorewood staff expenses such as salaries in the General Fund for support
provided to the operation. ht the past the SSCC has not been charged for those things. For the 2013
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budget the projected deficit is $59,440. The budgeted transfer in from the Shorewood General Fund is
$47,700. Therefore, there needs to be an additional transfer in of approximately $12,000. The projected
2013 deficit is somewhat less than 2012. He noted operations are continuing with current staff. Park and
Recreation Coordinator Grout's time is being spent between City Hall and the SSCC. The City has also
hired a couple of part-time building managers to come in at night to make sure there is someone from the
City present when the SSCC is being used. The part-time people are being paid $10 per hour. There is
also a person who does maintenance as well as sets up and takes down. If Council wants to continue
operations exactly the way they are right now it is about a $60,000 expense to the City.
Joynes noted the meeting packet contains a copy of a calendar of events currently scheduled for the
SSCC from April through December 2013. It was prepared by Park and Recreation Coordinator Grout.
The calendar shows activity basically every day throughout the remainder of the year. It takes a lot of
coordination to handle that level of activity. He stated if the SSCC is going to go to the next level,
whatever that might be, it will be likely that a part-time person will not work. He then noted the meeting
packet contains comparable data for what it costs other cities to manage a community center. Be stated
these types of centers are almost always part of park and recreational departments. They are not
considered to be a neutral revenue stream; they are almost always subsidized. He noted if Council wants
to have that level of performance at the SSCC it will cost more than $60,000. He stated there are lots of
different models for community centers and a variety of types of programming.
Joynes explained he had asked Attorney Keane to provide Council with the legal history of the SSCC.
The meeting packet contains copies of six legal documents with the most recent document signed dated
June 2009. The documents are confusing. There are things that should have been in some of the
documents but aren't. The treatments of the cost for operating the SSCC are different by year. He
explained the 2009 document states the City of Shorewood is the "tenant" of the building; tenant infers
the landlord for Shorewood and the other four cities that are subject to the agreement. The tenant is
responsible for all of the operations as well as repair, maintenance and ongoing service of the building.
The 2009 agreement ran through 2012 and it included a 90 -day in advance cancellation clause that would
have to be submitted by Shorewood. Absent a letter from Shorewood agreement would be renewed for
another three years. The City is legally under that agreement through June of 2015. Unfortunately, that
says to the other four cities that co -own the SSCC that they do not have to pay for anything related to the
SSCC. Staff has had a lot of conversation about the fact that if the other four cities would contribute to
the operation of the SSCC it would be viable. Legally they do not have to do that right now.
Councilmember Woodruff stated it is his recollection that sometime during the fall of 2012 the topic of
termination of the agreement came up and Council voted unanimously to continue operating the SSCC.
That did not require the City to issue any document because it was an automatic renewal.
Administrator Joynes stated he thought the City has a viable operating SSCC. He did not envision closing
it down. During 2012 Kristi Anderson was providing contract services to operate the SSCC. She
terminated her position in March 2013.
Joynes explained Park and Recreation Coordinator Grout has for the last one and one -half months spent
one half of her time at the SSCC. She assessed what the staffing needs are to continue operating at the
current level. Grout has recommended full -time staff there and also off -hour coordination and support.
The cities that have community centers that staff surveyed have a full -time director /person with an
assistant. The assistants serve a variety of different functions. Taking that into consideration the cost to
operate the SSCC full blown would be close to $100,000 — $120,000. He noted based on his experience
he is not aware of a center that is self - supporting or a center that is not considered to be an amenity
associated with park and recreation. He stated centers can be sustainable when they are associated with
major golf courses where centers are used for men's clubs, liquor establishments and so forth. Centers for
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general community use and senior citizens are not self- sufficient. Most of those cities have chosen to
support centers for quality of life reasons. The question for Council is how much the City is willing to
pay for that. He stated if there is a way for Council and SSSP to convince the other four co- owners of the
SSCC to proportionally contribute to the operations, maintenance and repair of the facility the City could
probably expand the services there.
Joynes stated the intent of the discussion was to be about what Council's vision for the SSCC is. That
needs a lot more discussion. He noted staff did not anticipate a decision from Council this evening. He
commented there is a saying in graduate school that without money there is no vision. Once there is
funding value for the community can be created. He stated there is a lot of political power at this
meeting. This is something that will have to be done in the face of the current tax situation. But, it will
take a lot of strategic planning. That should be the City's and SSSP's first step.
Councilmember Sandberg stated at one point Joey Nova's expressed interest in establishing a catering
and event center. She asked if that interest is still there.
Mayor Zerby stated Administrator Joynes and he had a discussion with Mrs. M who runs a lot of the
nature programs at the SSCC and Mrs. M was working with representatives from Joey Nova to come up
with events at the SSCC. Mrs. M was also looking to find ways she could partner with the City on a more
formal basis. Mrs. M's ideas ranged from running the SSCC entirely including senior program to smaller
ideas. It was just a concept to discuss.
Administrator Joynes explained there are ancillary issues that come with doing something like giving
private use of a center to a restaurant. He clarified that he not saying the concept of caterers using the
SSCC is an issue; it's just about exclusivity.
Councilmember Siakel stated there are two things that need to be discussed; how to expand the
programming and increase the revenues generated. She then stated she thought it appropriate for Council
to give specific feedback back to SSPP about how the City should work with them and about how SSSP
can help the City. She went on to state a strategic vision for the SSCC needs to be developed. She noted
she thought it prudent to tie the SSCC into the global vision for Badger Park. But, she is not sure there
has been the expertise available to do that.
Councilmember Woodruff stated for three years there has been somewhat of a mission of what Council
thought should happen at the SSCC. It was a community center supporting the South Lake communities
and other communities with a large focus on the senior population. He noted that he does not see that
changing. Another part of the mission was to provide programming and events that were attractive to the
community. The former contract manager for the SSCC was given a mission to do her best to make the
SSCC break even. He asked what she did over the last three years that needs to change, if anything. He
stated he supports establishing a group with some representatives from SSSP and some outside people
and have them talk about what the SSCC can do for the South Lake communities.
Councilmember Hotvet stated it's incredible that there are events scheduled at the SSCC almost every
day through the end of the year. Communities would love to have that type of schedule. She then stated
mobilizing people to spread the word of the value of the SSCC is critical. Tell them about the usage, the
events, the age groups served and so forth. She suggested bookending with Minnetonka Community
Education (MCE). She stated she thought there are ways to coordinate east and west end buildings that
support the community. She then stated there would be incredible value in having residents go to the
various South Lake cities' council meetings and spread the word about the value of the SSCC and the
schedule of events.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION MEETING MINUTES
May 20, 2013
Page 10 of 13
Councilmember Siakel stated consideration has to be given to how to employ a person to run the SSCC.
She explained the previous SSCC manager of operations was a contract person and the SSCC almost
became a goal for her. Councilmember Woodruff stated she was compensated to a fair amount on
incentive based on revenue and maybe that should not be the model going forward. Siakel suggested
consideration be given to having the future operations manager be a City employee, noting there are other
costs that come with that. The person should have good skills in building collaborative partnerships with
other entities. She noted that she received feedback that there are entities that view the SSCC as
competition rather than complimentary.
Councilmember Woodruff reiterated that he thought a group should be established to create a value
proposition. Mayor Zerby stated the people at this meeting are that group.
Woodruff stated he has seen comments over the last month or so about how more could be done for
middle school and high school students. He explained that when he was attending a large, suburban high
school (many years ago) the school built an addition with a room devoted to after -hours activities for
students. He questioned if there would be a market for that at the SSCC. Mayor Zerby stated he thought
the high school has a lot of that already.
SSSP President Newman stated there could be value in having students be part of the group to help
identify if there are ideas about programs for students.
Councilmember Sundberg asked if there are consultants experienced in community recreation that could
help a group develop that vision. She stated there are constraints because a facility already exists of a
certain size. Therefore, some things other communities do will not be relevant for the SSCC.
Administrator Joynes stated there are consultants that will do that. Joynes suggested that as a first step
five or six successful community center directors should be asked to share their perspectives. He stated
those people would have a better sense of what community activities would be popular. He commented
that the concept of a student center has come and gone over time.
Councilmember Hotvet noted that the City of Minneapolis has park buildings in neighborhoods and there
are multi -age activities all day long. She stated those neighborhood building are more along the capacity
the SSCC could accommodate.
Councilmember Woodruff stated the Gillespie Center in Mound was in fairly dire straits about four years
ago. A value proposition was developed for that Center and people took it and sold it to the communities
on the north side of Lake Minnetonka so they would contribute an endowment. That Center is operating
now and its programming is mainly focused on seniors. He suggested talking to the director of that
Center and may someone on board of the Center. He stated the Cities of Chanhassen, Chaska and
Minnetonka have community centers.
Councilmember Sandberg stated based on Administrator Joynes's suggestion about talking to directors
from other centers there is no need for a consultant. She then stated she personally wants to do some of
the research about other centers, and noted that she will take that on.
SSSP Secretary Zerby stated SSSP has worked with a lot of the directors at other centers. She knows
some of them. She noted Senior Community Services (SCS) runs the Gillespie Center.
Councilmember Woodruff stated back a number of years ago when the Friends were operating the SSCC
SCS provided an operations person for the SSCC as well as some other support. Over a couple of years
SCS' ability to do that financially evaporated so it backed away. SSSP Secretary Zerby noted government
funding dried up. That government money came through the cities to pay for those services.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION MEETING MINUTES
May 20, 2013
Page 11 of 13
Councilmember Siakel asked if the City is charging appropriately for the programming at the SSCC.
Mayor Zerby explained SSSP pays a monthly rental fee of $600. There are also rental fees for different
room sizes. There was not charge for some of the programming; they were more of a publicity effort or
fund raising events.
Councilmember Siakel suggested considering doing a charity event for the operation of the SSCC.
Communications Coordinator Moore stated the funds raised at the Southshore Sizzle fundraising event
held at the SSCC were split between the ICA Food Shelf and the SSCC. It was a joint effort.
Mayor Zerby stated the original cooperative agreement for the SSCC states under recitals "Cities desire
to develop a senior /community center (Center). The center shall be used by senior citizens for educations
and recreational activities, including, but not limited to, arts, crafts, music and other various programs
of enrichment. In addition, the Center shall be used by citizens for banquets, receptions, reunions and
other public and private events and other community -based activities such as those commonly provided
at community centers throughout the area." It also states under Purpose "The parties have determined
that each City is more economically and efficiently served by constructing and operating the Center
together rather than each City constructing and operating is own community center." There was clearly
intent in the original agreement that should be circled back to. He then stated he hears Council saying
that it would like the SSCC to continue to operate and that there is interest in having a full -tine director
and an assistant if needed. A value proposition needs to be developed about what the staff would provide.
Once the value proposition is developed the City can work together with SSSP and other interested
residents to reach out to the other four cities.
Councilmember Woodruff agreed that a mission statement and value proposition need to be developed
and he recommended doing that before hiring a full -time director. The City should continue on the
interim part-time path as that is done. Woodruff cautioned against throwing out new terms because
people are already confused about what the SSCC is. Councilmember Siakel agreed with that last
statement.
Mayor Zerby recommended including the word "community" in whatever name is decided upon for the
facility. Communications Coordinator Moore noted that the previous operations manager of the SSCC
dropped the word community from the name because her survey group found it created confusion with
Minnetonka Community Education. There were a lot of programs being cancelled at MCE because of
confusion. Zerby stated Southshore Center could be considered a chiropractic center.
SSSP President Newman stated people started to call it South Lake Area Community Center.
Councilmember Sandberg stated to keep the momentum going she suggested establishing an organized
planning group with no more than two Councilmembers, key people from SSSP and others as deemed
appropriate. The group needs to develop a plan to bring back to Council. Having two Councilmembers
involved will make sure Council's perspective is taken into account. She suggested Council provide the
group with a timeline to complete that plan.
Councilmember Siakel suggested revisiting the vision statement because it seems a little bit dated. It
could be made more global be removing the emphasis on senior programming.
Councilmember Woodruff suggested Mayor Zerby draft a mission statement for the group that would be
two to three sentences long.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION MEETING MINUTES
May 20, 2013
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Mayor Zerby noted Council cannot make that decision this evening during this work session.
Councilmember Hower asked what a reasonable timeframe is. Is there a risk that something will happen?
Is the timeframe 18 months, six months?
Administrator Joynes stated staff will prepare the 2014 Southshore Community Center budget using the
assumption that the current operation will be maintained. Anything other than that would be pure
speculation. In parallel the planning group should work on developing the vision and projecting a budget
from that vision. He noted legal changes will have to be made. He recommended establishing the
planning group as quickly as possible to start the discussion.
Mayor Zerby stated he would prefer to budget for a full -time director and planning assistant and then
assess the impact on the 2014 budget. If a full -term person and assistant doesn't work, that can be taken
out of the budget.
Councilmember Woodruff suggested developing a budget assuming current operations and a budget
assuming a full -time director. He recommended the planning group needs to have its deliverable by mid -
July because by the beginning of August Council has to start wrapping up the budget. By September 15
the City has to certify with Hennepin County with its maximum levy amount.
Mayor Zerby suggested putting in the best case which may be the highest.
Administrator Joynes stated either budget if adopted dictates service levels. He stated a budget with a
full -time director and some support staff is an assumption of what amount of work can be done. He
cautioned against supporting a budget and approving a budget and then wanting to do much more than
what can be done with that staffing level.
Councilmember Woodruff suggested Park and Recreation Coordinator Grout be a member of the
planning group. He asked SSSP representatives if they are able to continue to do what they are doing now
to support the SSCC through year end. SSSP Boardmember Brandhorst responded it will be difficult, and
noted there is a lack of leadership. She noted that Park and Recreations Coordinator Grout does an
excellent job. She stated SSSP is hanging on by its fingernails but will continue to do so if it has to. SSSP
Boardmember Freeman agreed that SSSP is hanging on by its fingernails and to continue to do so will be
rough.
Woodruff asked how the group will be established. Mayor Zerby stated it will be on the agenda for
Council's first meeting in June.
Councilmember Hotvet stated the group would be an opportunity to engage the community. She then
stated there must be residents that are regular visitors or are interested in the success of the SSCC that
would like to be involved.
Park and Recreation Coordinator Group stated there is an advisory group at the SSCC that meets once a
month. It started meeting in January. Maybe someone on that group would like to be on the planning
group. SSSP Secretary Zerby expressed concern that some of those people are interested in their own
benefit (interested in renting the facility for their own purposes). She stated that to bring new people on
does not necessarily mean they will looking after the best interest of the SSCC.
Mayor Zerby questioned if it might be beneficial to ask the other four co -owner City Councils to send a
representative.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION MEETING MINUTES
May 20, 2013
Page 13 of 13
Councilmember Siakel suggested having a member of the Shorewood Park Commission be part of the
group. There are a couple of Commissioners that would be valuable on the group.
Councilmember Woodruff stated he thought there should be five to seven people in the group.
SSSP Secretary Zerby stated having new people on the group may not be a good idea. The SSSP Steering
Committee has been evaluating what makes sense for a while. The Committee has a lot of understanding
of what does and does not work.
Councilmember Woodruff suggested one or two representatives from SSSP and Park and Recreation
Coordinator Grout be part of the group.
Administrator 7oynes stated staff is available to provide support as needed but they don't have to be a
member of the group.
Councilmember Sundberg cautioned against getting hung up on the number of people on the group.
There needs to be the grassroots support from the other South Lake cities.
4. ADJOURN
Woodruff moved, Siakel seconded, Adjourning the City Council Work Session of May 20, 2013, at
7:41 P.M. Motion passed 510.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Christine Freeman, Recorder
Scott er y, May r
ATTEST:
Jean Panchyshyn, City Clerk