Loading...
05-27-14 WS Park CC MinutesCITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION TUESDAY, MAY 27, 2014 MINUTES CONVENE WORK SESSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD COUNCIL CHAMBERS 5:30 PM Mayor Zerby called the meeting to order at 5:36 P.M. A. Roll Call Present: Mayor Zerby; Councihnembers Hotvet and Woodruff; Administrator Joynes; City Clerk Panchyshyn; Finance Director DeJong; Planning Director Nielsen; Director of Public Works Brown; and Engineer Hornby Park Commission Chair Mangold; Park Commissioners Dietz, Hartmann, Ische; Commissioner Sawtell arrived at 6:05 P.M. Absent: Councilmembers Siakel and Sundberg B. Review Agenda Woodruff moved, Hotvet seconded, approving the agenda as presented. Motion passed 6/0. 2. DISCUSS BADGER PARK MASTER PLAN Mayor Zerby welcomed the Park Commissioners. Director Nielsen explained that Council had directed staff to update and compare the cost estimates for two proposed Concepts for Badger Park improvements. The costs for the two Concepts are not that far apart. Unfortunately, they are closer to those estimated for the TKDA plan in 2010 which were approximately $1,230,000. In today's dollars that would be $1.6 million per Engineer Hornby. That plan included the removal of the tennis courts. Several of the costs have basically doubled in five years. He had originally used the cost estimate included in the Park Improvement Capital Improvement Program (CIP). For 2014 the CIP has allocated $118,000 for the Park improvements for the creek crossing, resurfacing the tennis courts and the start of the ball field improvements. For 2015 it allocated $405,000 for continued field improvements, parking and road improvements, and park amenities. Those equate to a total CIP budget of $523,000. About $80,000 of that is for the shelter. The Concept 1 & 2 cost estimate for the shelter is $250,000. The estimated cost for Concept 1 (north /south field orientation) is approximately $1,272,500 million and the cost for Concept 2 (east /west field orientation) is approximately $1,325,000 million. The Concept 2 estimated cost includes $25,000 for a building that does not need to be in there. Either of the two Concepts presented are better than the TKDA plan. They end up with additional parking for both the Park and the Southshore Community Center (SSCC). Neither Concept includes removal of the tennis courts. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK May 27, 2014 Page 2 of 10 He reviewed three potential options staff had identified relative to the proposed Badger Park improvements. Scale back the project — It would be scaled back to a budget Council and the Park Commission would be comfortable with. ➢ Eliminate the additional parking. Straighten out the driveway to the SSCC. ➢ Construct a very simple shelter similar to the one in Silverwood Park. ➢ Use portable toilets versus permanent restrooms with sewer and water. ➢ Eliminate trails within the Park. ➢ Eliminate the "village green ". ➢ Eliminate the decorative paving areas. 2. Phase the improvements in — This option would not reduce the cost; it simply spreads it over a period of years. The costs could increase due to lost economy of scale and inflation. Various elements that could be phased in are as follows (they are not priority order): ➢ Ball field changes /improvements; ➢ Parking improvements; ➢ Play area; ➢ Shelter; ➢ Overlook: ➢ Loop trail; and, ➢ Additional building —the gazebo in Concept 1. 3. Bond for improvements —If the City opts to move forward with the project bonding is one way to pay for it. Bonding would present an opportunity to include money for new trails. That funding will be depleted once the Smithtown Road east trail is built. Administrator 7oynes encouraged Council to keep the situation of the SSCC in mind. He explained Council is moving toward resolution of that issue. One of the potential outcomes is that the SSCC comes back to Shorewood in its entirety and becomes part of the City's park program. If that should happen, it may be prudent to integrate the SSCC more into the improvements for Badger Park. There are also financial implications to doing that. Over the next ten to twenty years there are about $200,000 in capital improvements that have to be made to the SSCC that are not in the CIP. He stated if the City were to bond for improvements for the Park then consideration should be given to bonding for the trails and SSCC improvements as well. Chair Mangold stated all of the budgeted amounts in the Park Improvement CIP are falling short today. They cannot be funded with the current level of transfers from the General Fund. Mayor Zerby noted that he likes to view the improvements from the perspective of needs versus wants. He stated if the SSCC is integrated into Badger Park then there are bathrooms in the SSCC. Maybe a new door could be built into the SSCC that would allow timed access to the bathrooms while the rest of the SSCC is closed. Then a simple shelter structure could be all that is needed. He clarified his comments are free flowing. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION May 27, 2014 Page 3 of 10 Zerby stated the estimated costs include play equipment for $130,000. He asked if the current equipment has reached its end of life. Director Nielsen responded it is probably within three to five years of needing to be replaced. Chair Mangold stated that play equipment is the worst in all of the parks. Commissioner Ische stated some of paint finish on the equipment is flaking off and noted that the equipment is structurally and functionally sound. He asked Director Brown if that could be refinished. Brown stated he thought the coating is specialized coating and he thought the coating could be reapplied. Brown also thought that the three to five year remaining lifecycle is accurate. Councilmember Hotvet asked what the chances are of obtaining grants like the City did for Manor Park. Director Nielsen noted staff applies for grants for park projects whenever possible. Nielsen clarified staff does not count on grants funds when it prepares the budget. Administrator Joynes stated grants are nice things to have but the City cannot count on them. Commissioner Ische stated the cost comparison sheets for Concept 1 and Concept 2 each have 20 items with costs estimates. He assumes that each of those items have, for example, 20 items underneath them. He asked what is included in the $250,000 cost for a shelter. He questioned if that could possibly be whittled down to a $125,000 shelter. He stated Concept 1 includes $70,000 for ball field work and Concept 2 includes $82,000 for that. The estimates for each Concept identify $95,000 for two extras. He asked what is in the numbers for the extras. He then stated if the decision is made to take things out, scale things back or phase things in he cautioned against taking shortcuts that will that will be costly to improve later (i.e., the ball field). He recommended spending the necessary dollars on the ball field to make it as good as possible the first time. He stated if shortcuts were taken on the ball field upfront and it needed to be fixed five years down the road it would cost all of what was originally spent plus what was cut out the first time. He suggested taking things out that could be done without substantial cost implications at a later time. He stated the administrative costs are estimated to be $160,000 to $170,000. He asked what those costs are for. Engineer Homby stated they are indirect costs some of which are administrative, permits, engineering and legal costs. Engineer Hornby clarified that the costs are concept level bid items and there is not a lot of detail associated with them. If this were going out for bid there might be 100 bid items. lie noted that the cost estimates are somewhat conservative. Councilmember Woodruff stated he agrees with Mayor Zerby's comment about needs versus wants. Some real needs and some nice to have things have been identified. He then stated he agrees that the ball field needs work. He also thinks the parking lot needs to be expanded just to support today's needs. He does not think the future of the SSCC will have much impact on what needs to be spent to expand the lot. He noted that the current shelter is about ready to fall down. He suggested the new shelter be similar to the shelter in Manor Park. He stated that shelter cost about $50,000 to $60,000 to rehabilitate. He thought it would cost about $150,000 to rebuild it. For Badger Park he envisions a small room with some storage, a couple of bathrooms and a patio with a shelter roof over it. He stated he could build a nice house for $250,000 if he already owned the land. Director Nielsen noted that the land the shelter would be built on is former swamp land and dealing with that adds expense. Woodruff noted that the sanitary sewer and water improvements add another approximate $30,000 to the $250,000 cost of the shelter. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION May 27, 2014 Page 4 of 10 Engineer Hornby stated that a good portion of the shelter's cost is related to the foundation and remediation of the old swamp land. Jason Amberg, with W SB & Associates, stated that what is being designed is for a public utility that can take abuse. Councilmember Woodruff stated from his perspective the top three things that need to be addressed are the bail field improvements, the parking lot improvements and the shelter. He then stated Badger Park improvements have been seriously talked about for two and one half years and less seriously talked about it for five years. From his vantage point it is time to move forward with things. He asked what the cost would be to do those three things. Pie thought it would be close to $500,000 — $600,000. He stated he thought the City could come up with enough money to do those three things without having to bond for them. He noted he is not opposed to bonding. Chair Mangold stated to date the concept of the improvements has been to move forward with all of them at one time as one general contracted project. He asked if the Park Commission should look at this as a normal project and solicit bids on the specific line items. Councilmember Woodruff stated from his vantage point he would like to have three packages of improvements. Council can then determine how to fund each of them. At the completion of each package there would be usable results. He then stated that maybe the Park Commission just buys into the approach and Council directs staff to solicit bids. Chair Mangold asked if a general contractor would be doing the entire package. Commissioner Ische stated he thought the City would do better by having separate projects. He asked if the City would act as the general contractor rather than having an outside entity act as a general contractor. Mayor Zerby stated he believes Council's interest has been in doing the improvements in phases and noted that there does need to be a master plan. He then stated that there had been some discussion about doing the hockey rink, the shelter and the parking lot in 2014 and then moving forward with the ball field. Zerby asked for clarification about what needs to be done with the play equipment. Councilmember Woodruff stated he would like to take the approach of refinishing that. Commissioner Hartmann asked how much that will cost and noted that it will need to be replaced in three years. She asked what value there would be in spending the money to refinish it just to replace it in three years. Commissioner Ische asked why it would have to be replaced in three years; what about the equipment warrants that. Zerby asked if the existing equipment is the right configuration. Does it need to be more handicap accessible? Is there some type of activity that the equipment does not serve? Is there an activity the equipment serves that is high risk? He asked if the equipment design is still appropriate. Chair Mangold stated the Park Commission does not intend to take that same structure and move it to a new location in Badger Park. But, if the equipment location will stay the same then the life of the equipment can be stretched out. Hartmann stated if the decision is made to go with Concept 2 the playground will have to be moved. Mangold stated it would have to be moved for both Concepts. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION May 27, 2014 Page 5 of 10 Councilmember Woodruff explained there had been numerous discussions about the pros and cons of the leaving the ball field orientation as north/south and or changing it to east/west. He thought Concept 2 with the east /west orientation would result in a few more parking spaces than Concept 1. Director Nielsen clarified that Concept I would result in a few more parking spaces and noted that Concept 2 connects with the SSCC better. Commissioner Ische stated the cost estimates for field related improvements indicate that Concept 2 would be about $50,000 more expensive that Concept 1. Director Nielsen noted most of that difference is the cost of having to move the lights. Councilmember Woodruff stated the cost to replace the play equipment is close to the cost of parking lot improvements. He asked which is more important: making the parking lot improvements and refinishing the play equipment with the understanding that it may have to be replaced and moved; or, new play equipment and no parking lot improvements. Commissioner Ische stated that Concept 1 would allow the play area to remain in its current location for the time being without endangering children. Councilmember Woodruff noted that he favors Concept 1. Chair Mangold stated the Park Commission favors Concept 1. Because of Council's desire to more closely connect Badger Park with the SSCC the Commission believes there needs to be space that is not just for sports. Concept 1 provides village green space that is out in front that can be used with the SSCC. For Concept 2 it is more about filling the gap between the tennis courts and the ball field. Councilmember Woodruff stated that back during discussion about the TKDA plan there was discussion about the green space being a place for events. He then stated if a lacrosse game was being played maybe there could be some associated lacrosse event occurring on the green space. Commissioner Ische stated the Minnetonka Youth Lacrosse Program is considering an end of summer tournament for 2015. He noted that at all the field sites there are vendors that put up tents and sell things. The village green space would work perfectly for that. Councilmember Hotvet stated that for Concept 1 near the pedestrian connection north of the ball field on the east side she questioned if there is another opportunity to have more green space even closer to the SSCC. She understands that would take away from the turnaround loop. But, it may make the connection with the SSCC greater. Maybe there could be a picnic area and a gathering place for individuals at the SSCC. In Concept 1 everything is on the west side of the field. Director Nielsen stated that is what Concept 2 attempts to do. Hotvet suggested addressing the loss of parking for Concept 1 that would come about by doing what she proposed by putting more parking in another area. Hotvet stated that if the goal is to have the SSCC part of the park system then either Concept could be refined to strengthen the connection to the SSCC. Commissioner Ische stated that currently the biggest draw to Badger Park is for athletic games. Concept 1 with parking on the north side of the ball field and in front of the SSCC draws attention to the SSCC when people are at athletic events. With Concept 2 there really isn't any parking immediately in front of the SSCC. Director Nielsen clarified the parking around the SSCC does not change with Concept 2. There was continued discussion if there was more or less parking near the SSCC for each of the CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION May 27, 2014 Page 6 of 10 Concepts. Mr. Amberg stated there is gravel parking next to the well house and noted that with Concept 2 some parking in front of the SSCC was eliminated. Nielsen stated the plan was to take that gravel out. Councilmember Woodruff stated he does not think there is anything wrong with leaving that gravel parking for overflow parking. Commissioner Sawtell asked if the plan is to move forward despite the high cost. Mayor Zerby stated there has been discussion about phasing in the improvements to try and find a way to make it more affordable. Councilmember Woodruff stated the City has a certain amount of money that would fund a significant portion of the improvements but it can't fund all of them anytime soon. Director Nielsen recommended doing the ball field and parking lot improvements together. If Council wants to split those then the field improvements should be done first. Commissioner Hartmann stated that for Concept 2 there needs to be a way to block the ball field so that children would not get hit by lacrosse balls or footballs when they are on the playground near the end zone on the west end. Chair Mangold stated Lacrosse has told the Park Commission that the play area for Concept 2 would not be usable during games because of that. Mayor Zerby asked if driving range nets could be put up or are they too costly and unsightly. Someone responded both. Commissioner Ische stated netting would be needed on the north end of the field for Concept I to keep cars from being damaged. Either way netting will be needed. Ische then stated for Concept I there is the village green on the west side of the field and a walking trail on the east side. There needs to be some backstop about 8 — 10 feet high to protect people from errant lacrosse shots. Director Nielsen stated there has been discussion about having landscaping to help do that; it is not shown on the drawing. Commissioner Ische stated the issue with that is a person thinks they are safe but they are not. Administrator Joynes stated if Badger Park is going to be a usable park the bathrooms need to be convenient. In order to not tear things up a second time to put the infrastructure in for bathrooms that needs to be done at the time of ball field improvements. From his perspective the SSCC bathrooms would be inconvenient and be cannot imagine parents letting their children go to those bathrooms by themselves. Mayor Zerby asked what there is now; are there port a potties. Director Nielsen stated there are bathrooms in the warming house and port a potties have been put out as well. Director Brown noted that the warming house is not open during the warm weather months. Commissioner Hartmann stated she does not think a girl will want to use an outdoor port a potty. Councilmember Woodruff stated Concept 1 has the bathrooms on the west side of the field; they are close to the play area and the field. The SSCC bathrooms could be secondary. Commissioner Ische stated that based on the estimated costs and the near $600,000 budget the improvements have to be phased in. He suggested evaluating which Concept would be easier to phase in and maybe it would be a melding of the two. Neither of them will flow real smoothly. With Concept 1 it would be easier from the ball field perspective. The field and parking lot improvements could be done but the shelter could not be done without replacing the play equipment because the shelter would almost be on top of the equipment. With Concept 2 the field improvements are more expensive but the shelter can be built without having to redo the play area. Councilmember Woodruff asked if there is a way to downsize the scope of the shelter to allow for the replacement of the play equipment. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION May 27, 2014 Page 7 of 10 Councilmember Hotvet asked if there is anything wrong with using temporary buildings during the construction process. Councilmember Woodruff stated the City does not let residents do that so they City should not. Hotvet noted they are used at Cathcart Park. Mayor Zerby stated he prefers Concept 2. He recommended asking the Park Foundation for a contribution to build the playground or shelter. Councilmember Woodruff stated he prefers Concept 1 but can support Concept 2. He then stated everyone is aware the City does not have enough money to make all of the improvements. If just some of the improvements were done he suggested doing those that would serve the City's residents for a long time. Commissioner Dietz stated to him it sounds like the future plans for the SSCC are quite important. If people don't want people at a wedding to be able to go outside then things are fine. But if the goal is to have the SSCC be a regular source of income and an event center then it has to be made to look like more than a parking lot with a house at the end. He asked if bonding is off of the table. He stated without knowing the future of the SSCC it is difficult to say what the big picture is. Chair Mangold stated improvements need to be made to Badger Park independent of what the future of the SSCC is. He then stated he is fine with phasing improvements in. But, there has to be a plan put in place for funding other improvements in all parks for farther out years. Councilmember Woodruff stated it is Council's challenge to determine how to fund park projects 10 — 20 years out. He then stated bonding has to be placed on the ballot. Director DeJong explained the City could do bonding by getting resident authorization through a referendum or the Shorewood Economic Development Authority (EDA) could issue lease revenue bonds which is what it did for the public safety facilities and City Hall renovation. Councilmember Woodruff asked how the market would view the EDA path with the security underlying the bonds being a park. Woodruff stated for the City Hall renovation the security was City Hall and right now the EDA owns City IIall. DeJong stated there would likely be more concerns about the security. DeJong explained that generally what happens with lease revenue bonds is the bond rating goes down one notch and there is an interest rate differential. With bonding that has less security the City may be required to have a year's escrow. Councilmember Woodruff explained that for every $1 million in bonds the interest cost is $100,000 per year and that is based on the bonds for City Hall. That $100,000 adds about 1.5 percent to the levy. Director Nielsen stated that as part of that bonding there would be an opportunity to issue bonds for trails. Woodruff stated he would like to know what securities firms' thoughts are on this. Commissioner Dietz stated when his children were growing up they used the City's parks. They played seven sports. He is not convinced there are "X" number of children in the City that use the ball fields a. few times a week. Yet everyone uses the trails. He commented that he does not think it would be an issue to walk an extra 50 yards orl00 yards to get to the ball field although he did not like it when his children were playing sports. But, parking is a necessity. Chair Mangold reiterated he would really like Badge- Park to have more usable space that is not just for sports, noting it does not have to be called the village green. He then stated that during peak performance CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION May 27, 2014 Page 8 of 10 times at the bail field parking is a big issue. Councilmember Woodruff stated no matter what improvements are made there will always be instances when parking will be an issue. Commissioner Iscbe noted that parking is very difficult during the changeover period when there are back to back games. That can never be accommodated. Chair Mangold stated either Concept is better than the current situation and reiterated that the Park Commission prefers Concept 1. Commissioner Isehe stated Concept 1 ties things together — the green space, the picnic area, the shelter and the play grounds. With Concept 2 those four things are spread out. People are not going to run across the field to go from the picnic area to the village green when there is a game going on. It will be easier to keep track of children with Concept 1. Councilmember Hotvet stated that with Concept 1 the driver would have to loop through under the canopy for the SSCC. Concept 2 has its own loop. Commissioner Hartmann stated there is no reason that a few parking spaces can't be given up to create some green space north of the ball field on the east side closer to the SSCC. She then stated that for Concept 1 there has not been any discussion about not pushing the field south a little. Engineer Homby stated that doing that would result in a loss of a full row of parking just north of the field. Chair Mangold noted that Concept I and Concept 2 would have close to the same amount of parking. Councilmember Woodruff stated in the scheme of things the $70,000 cost for moving the ball field south a little is a non - issue. He recommended spending $70,000 on that Commissioner Hartmann stated if it is not broke don't fix it; it is working in the current location. The cost benefit of doing that is a few more parking spaces. Mayor Zerby asked if the existing play area is for pre -K or elementary. Director Nielsen stated a little of both. Zerby stated the plan is to replace that with two play areas. Nielsen stated there will be two different types of equipment. Mr. Amberg stated the recent trend is to separate play areas by age in part for safety reasons. Councilmember Woodruff suggested flipping the location of the two play areas around. Councilmember Hotvet stated Council had discussed bringing the play areas together because if a parent has a three -year old and a 5 -year old they would want the play areas next to each other. Woodruff stated for Concept 2 the pre -K area should be closer to the sideline of the ball field. Mayor Zerby stated the existing play area is already a multi -age play area. Chair Mangold stated that the Park Commission thinks both Concepts have issues. Mayor Zerby expressed his desire for staff to come back with a Concept 1.5. Council has not seen anything that incorporates the alternatives that have been discussed. For example, is there a way to create a turnaround for vehicles in Concept 1? Councilmember Hotvet reiterated that she wants the SSCC to be better connected. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION May 27, 2014 Page 9 of 10 Councilmember Woodruff suggested Council work with staff on fine tuning the Concept(s). Then the Park Commission can get on to something else. Chair Mangold stated Council needs to remove the Park Commission from the process for now or it has to direct the Commission to work on something specific. Mayor Zerby explained the first time Council saw the Concepts it favored Concept 1. Then parking was presented as an issue so Council shifted to Concept 2. Now Council is in sticker shock from the price tag that was presented. Councilmember Woodruff suggested Council define a phase 1 and ask staff to come back with some costs for that phase and to explore bonding further. He stated once costs are known Council and staff can determine if the City can afford to do a phase I without bonding. He commented that if Council decides bonding is the way to go he thought that could happen within 60 days. Engineer Homby stated if Council wants to phase the project in the parking lot should be done last. Any time a heavy truck is brought on site for grading or building work that will potentially damage the parking lot. Mayor Zerby clarified the parking lot improvements should be done after the two other major components. Councilmember Woodruff reiterated his suggestion to do the ball field improvements, build the shelter and do the parking lot improvements together with parking being done last. Hornbv noted that construction will not start in 2014 Councilmember Woodruff stated if that is the case he recommended Council and staff talk about trails costs and an overall bonding package. Commissioner Ische stated he just went through the cost estimates for Concept I and totaled the costs of the items Councilmember Woodruff just mentioned plus the extras, the contingencies and administrative costs and that came to approximately $960,000 as presented. He then stated that he believes there is money that can be saved in a number of the items if the associated detail was assessed closely. He went on to state it would be great to do the field work in the fall of this year and seed the field by September I. If it is not seeded until June I, 2015, it won't be ready to use until June I, 2016. Councilmember Woodruff stated he does not think there is any obstacle to doing that. Mr. Amberg stating there needs to be grading and irrigation design work done. Water and sewer service needs to be put in. Mayor Zerby asked if doing that would be enough to go the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District (MCWD) and talk about a water reclamation project and potential grant funding. Engineer Homby stated the majority of the plan has to be put together before going to the MCWD for permitting and for possible grants. Mayor Zerby stated that would have to be done anyway for the field resurfacing. Councilmember Hotvet noted that the MCWD likes to be involved with putting the plan together. Commissioner Ische noted that the Minnetonka Lacrosse Program has indicated it will contribute $15,000 toward irrigation. He stated if there is any possibility of doing something this fall Tonka Youth football needs to be notified tomorrow. He commented that he thought that the T'onka Youth Association may be willing to contribute funding. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PARK COMMISSION May 27, 2014 Page 10 of 10 Pngineer Homby noted that the field needs to grow for a full year before playing sports on it. Commissioner Ische stated that means the field will be unavailable for lacrosse for one season and football for two seasons. Mayor Zerby asked Director Nielsen to come back with a Concept 1.5 for Council and staff discussion during Council's second meeting in June. Nielsen stated staff will try to do that. Councilmember Woodruff asked if Council could have some information on bonding by then and asked that Concept 1.5 have a north/south field orientation. There was indication the bonding research could be done. Administrator Joynes stated it will be easier to do the bonding than the design. Councilmember Hotvet noted she likes the idea of a hybrid concept. Councilmember Woodruff encouraged the Park Commission to think about the next big park project. Mayor Zerby stated he remembers when Woodruff was early in his tenure on the Council he asked the Park Commission to submit a wish list for parks. KINEENEV13ril Woodruff moved, Hotvet seconded, Adjourning the Work Session of the City Council and Park Commission of May 27, 2014, at 6:54 P.M. Motion passed 7/0. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Christine Freeman, Recorder ATTEST: Je n Panehyshyn, City Clerk