111885 PK MINCITY OF SHOREWOOD
PARK COMMISSION MEETING
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 1985
M I N U T E S
CALL TO ORDER
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
7:00 P.M.
Chairman Lindstrom called the meeting to order at 7:12 P.M.
ROLL CALL
Present: Chairman Lindstrom, Commissioners Jakel, Vogel, Squires,
Schmid (7:32 P.M. - had informed secretary); Council Liaison
Gagne and Park Secretary Niccum
Absent: Commissioner Kooi (ill)
NEAR MOUNTAIN PRESENTATION
Mr. Peter Pflaum and his Engineer, Mr. Rick Sathre presented two plans to the Park
Commission for their consideration:
Alternate #1 - this proposed park consists of Lot 1 of Near Mountain and a small
section of Jim Bruce's Lot 5, Block 2 in "Silver Ridge ". Near
Mountain would give Mr. Bruce a piece of their Lot 1 which would
straighten out his Lot 5. This park would be approximately 59,000
• square feet in size.
Alternate #2 - is composed of part of Jim Bruce's Lot 4, Block 2, an area approx-
imately 100' wide and 160 -170' deep. Neat Mountain would give
Mr. Bruce part of Lot 1, which would shift his Lots 4 and 5
a little to the east.
According to Mr. Pflaum, either way there would be some legal expense payable by
the City for replatting and transfer of title. He felt that Alternate #2 would
have less impact on the neighborhood. He said that he felt that, regardless of
which lot is chosen, there should be restrictions placed upon it.
The Park Commission discussed the two plans and the majority favored Alternate #2,
because it is closer to the parking area and more convenient to the park, would
have less impact on the neighborhood, and would be cheaper.
Commissioner Jakel favored Alternate #1 because he felt we should have more natural
areas in our parks, and that we should acquire the larger area because later the
land will not be available.
Vogel moved, Squires seconded, to recommend to Council that they accept Alternate #2,
with the understanding that if this does not prove to be available the Park Commis-
sion will accept Alternate #1. They ask that the following restrictions be placed
upon the acquired park property:
1. No parking allowed
2. No motorized vehicles allowed
3. Some type of restriction to control excess "party situations"
Motion carried - 4 ayes - 1 nay ( Jakel).
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 1985
page two
0 SNOWMOBILE ORDINANCE
John Arnst - 5480 Teal Circle - was present to express a complaint about snowmobile
use on the railroad corridor.
The Park Commission opened the discussion by asking Mr. Arnst if he would care
to make a presentation of his complaint to the audience.
Mr. Arnst said he has lived next to the railroad corridor for 7 years, and that
the area is not patrolled, nor are the snowmobiles monitored. He said the noise
from the snowmobiles is very loud. He referred to snowmobiles drag racing on the
corridor side -by -side and said he was almost run over once. He referred to kids
on snowmobiles, saying they are a problem. He particularly referred to a specific
instance when a snowmobile was racing up and down the corridor at 3:00 A.M. He
said he called the police, held the phone out the door and asked them if they could
hear the snowmobile, they replied yes, they could hear it but could not do anything
about'it unless he presented them with the number of the snowmobile. He felt that
something should have been done and that he could not possibly see the number at
night. He said he has rights as a taxpayer. He complained about the Southwest
Trail Association, stating that he did not feel they are maintaining the trail
as they should, that the little grooming that has been done has been done after
11:00 P.M., which was noisy and unnecessary, and that they do not seem to maintain
any control over curfews, speed limits, or anything else. He sa d times are changing
and he feels the corridor should be closed down. He asked how many in the audience
were Shorewood residents and did not receive any answer. He said that the City
• Council, in a 1982 letter, said there was not any control over snowmobiles.
Commissioner Schmid repeated Mr. Arnst's question as to how many Shorewood residents
were in the audience.
No Shorewood residents were present, however the following people were present,
because they felt that the corridor system affected more than Shorewood.
Robert E. Wenisch
Terry Pulkrabeck
esident Earlyp Sickman
uthwest Tr eff /Julie Hanson
XAl Zachow
Bernie Hanson
Tom Pauly
Kerry Babler
Bob Smith
Jim Reiss
5450 Circle Drive
Jordon
492 -6212
293 Victoria Drive
Chaska
448 -3730
7808 School Road
Eden Prairie
937 -1804
Chanhassen Lawn and Sports
Chanhassen
934 -5303
17250 Barberry Circle
Eden Prairie
934 -3245
Chanhassen Lawn and Sports
Chanhassen
934 -2843
7721 Frontier Trail
Chanhassen
934 -8738
1185 County Rd. 110
Mound
472 -5234
3232 Gladstone
Mound
4109 Highland Road
Minnetonka
938 -2445
The telephone numbers are included because the above people said they would be
willing to help Mr. Arnst if he had a problem and would provide him with phone
numbers.
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 1985
page three
0 SNOWMOBILE ORDINANCE - continued
Bernie Hanson- Chanhassen Lawn and Sports -said he realizes that a lot of parents
let their kids run loose with snowmobiles and it is a problem. The parents shouldn't
turn them loose with the machines in the first place. He also said the trails
have done a lot of good for a lot of people.
Bob Smith- Mound -said the snowmobiles on the street are not under the control of
the snowmobile associations and there isn't anything they can do about them.
He said they are not authorized to patrol, however when they are out grooming or
working-. on the trail they stop three - wheelers, motorcycles, and vehicles and
show them a copy of the regulations showing them they are not allowed on the trail
and telling them it is a tate law.
Al Zachow -Eden Prairie -said he worked with the snow patrol in Eden Prairie for
years, and what they would do is to patrol the area and write down the number of
a snowmobile, then give the number to the Police Department and have them follow
through with it.
Kerry Bab.ler -Mound -said he has never riden the trail in Shorewood but has put in
many hours putting this trail in, and brushing and grooming it.
Earlyn Sickman -Eden Prairie -said as trail chairman he contacts 35 people every
year. These are people whose property is crossed by their trails. The people
have had nothing but praise for their Association, saying that now the riders mostly
stay on the trails instead of riding in their yards, driveways, and under their
• windows.
He also suggested getting the number Off the side of the snowmobile, or a description
of the vehicle. He said if they can get some information the snowmobilers will
try to track them down and report them to the Police. He too mentioned the fact
that kids on snowmobiles become a problem after school, but feels this is the parents
fault.
Commissioner Schmid asked if Eden Prairie allows snowmobiles.
Mr. Sickman said yes, the Southwest Trail goes through Eden Prairie and the City
does not object, but welcomes them. He also said there is a trail across the street
from his home and it doesn't bother his family. He said snowmobile Associations,
unlike other organizations, strictly pay their own way. He said if there is a
problem we should see if we can solve it. He suggested that perhaps a big sign
stating that it is a residential area and to please slow down might help.
Jeff Hanson - President of Southwest Trail Association said that they are at this
time working with Jack Hendrickson, Carver County Sheriff, to form a safety patrol
through the Carver County Sheriff's Department. They will be wearing marked vests
to identify themselves and, although they will not be able to enforce the law themselves,
they can go to trouble spots, take identification and give it to the authorities
to follow the problem through. They also figure if they see the vests that say
"Sheriff's Department", people will assume that they have more authority than they
do and this will also do some good. He also said they plan to make citizen arrests
this year, hoping that this will help the problem.
• Commissioner Schmid said that the City is responsible for the Parks, not the trails,
that the City does not have the time, manpower, or resources to patrol the trails.
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 1985
page four
i SNOWMOBILE ORDINANCE - continued
Jim Reiss- Minnetonka -said that Jim Heiland wrote a letter to Art Lee of the Railroad
in 1981 complaining about the various vehicles using the corridor.
He also asked why the Southwest Trail Association had not been informed earlier.
Mr. Arnst said one of the Park Commissioners, who was also active in the Trail
Association, had known for years how he felt, and had done nothing.
Commissioner Schmid asked the snowmobilers present if all motorized vehicles were
banned from the corridor if they thought this would solve the problem.
Several of them spoke, saying that they thought it would cause a great deal more
difficulty on the City streets.
Jim Reiss - Minnetonka said that three wheel vehicles are becoming more popular,
and it is his opinion that eventually 3 to 6 wheel vehicles will eventually be
licensed the same as snowmobiles and be able to use the same trails that they use.
Al Zachow asked Mr. Arnst what his sports preference is.
Mr. Arnst said cross country skiing.
Al Zachow also said he feels that if you arrest one or two people, it will solve
the problem.
Mr. Arnst referred to the fatality on Wedgewood Drive and was told that they had
• no jurisdiction because it happened on a public road, and that if the trails were
closed down, its possible that there will be more problems.
Chairman Lindstrom said that the clubs evolved because of problems on the streets.
They were formed to educate people using snowmobiles. He said he feels there will
be more problems if the use of the trails is outlawed.
Mrs. Vogel said she feels that taxpayers in homes should have more rights than
snowmobilers.
Earlyn Sickman suggested that the Trail Associations take a look at Mr. Arnst's
property and see what can be done to control the problem.
Mr. Arnst said he didn't see how shutting off two miles of trail could make that
much difference. The snowmobilers said it would involve a lot of expense and work
to re -route the trail.
Jim Reiss referred to the decimal level, saying that since 1974 it has been 78,
which is less than a power lawnmower.
Bernie Hanson said there is no reason for loud snowmobiles. The snowmobilers
do not approve and if they can get the information from Mr. Arnst, who seems to
know the make and some other information about the snowmobile that has caused him
problems, they would be glad to seet,ifkthey can locate him and talk to him. He
said snowmobiling is a family sport for many families, that his own family has
logged over 1600 miles together, and he hates to see someone with no consideration
ruin things for so many others.
9 Jim Reiss said there are signs available from the State, and these can be posted.
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 1985
page five
SNOWMOBILE ORDINANCE - continued
Commissioner Squires said she sees Chairman Lindstrom's point of view. She also
feels that the Associations present have not come to argue but are trying their
best to come up with a solution to the problem.
Jeff Hanson -Pres. SWTA said that they do plan to patrol all the trails this year.
Bernie Hanson said that it is a law that the snowmobile numbers are reflectorized
and at least 3 high on the side of the vehicles.
Bob Smith -Mound -said the Hennepin County Water Patrol has a Snowmobile Patrol,
so does the DNR.
The railroad corridor is groomed from the Dredging Company to Victoria.
Jim Reiss -Mtka -said that the Railroad was still in use when snowmobiles were banned
in Minnetonka. He said he is sure that if the corridor had been abandoned at that
time, it would have been a different story, and that the Tonka Trailblazers Association
would have gained use of it. He said he has talked to many people that have been
involved and they agree.
Commissioner Jakel said he has problems with the fact that snowmobiles cut through
Cathcart Park and he does not feel it is safe. He was informed that the trail
no longer does pass through the park and that it shouldn't be used. The Southwest
Trail Association said they will post signs to keep the snowmobiles from passing
through the park.
Commissioner Squires suggested that the snowmobilers contact shops and stores,
• and make parents aware of the problem.
Bernie Hanson - Chanhassen Lawn and Sports -said that as a dealer he always does
this.
Bob Wenisch- Jordon -said the information also comes with registration and whenever
you buy a new snowmobile.
Schmid moved, Jakel seconded, that the decision be deferred until the next meeting.
Motion carried unanimously.
SKATING RINKS
Sound System Chairman Lindstrom has talked to Gary Carl and he wants $300 for
an amplifier, 2 speakers and a mike. Commissioners suggested that a boom box
would be efficient and not such an expense. They requested staff to check into
this with Best Buy Company, LaBelles, and Warner Hardware.
Attendant Salaries - Schmid moved, Squires seconded, to leave the salaries at a
range of $4.25 the first year, $4.50 the second year, and a top of $4.75.
Motion carried unanimously.
Schmid moved, Vogel seconded, to pay Martey Jakel 21¢ a mile, not to exceed 30
miles a week. Motion carried unanimously.
Newspaper Articles -were approved by the Commission as written. TheAttendant
ads are to be run in the two local papers and the Minnesota Daily.
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
MONDAY, NOVEMBER 18, 1985
page six
16 APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Squires moved, Jakel seconded, to approve the minutes as written. Motion carried
unanimously.
NEW PARK NAME
Jakel moved, Vogel seconded, to name the new park "Silver Lake Park:'Commissioner
Squires suggested that this name might be misleading because people may expect
a lake for public use. Motion died.
All Park Commissioners are to bring three suggestions for names for the new park
to the meeting of December 2nd.
MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
Staff asked Commission to start thinking about what month they want as Liaison
and who they want as Chairman.
REPORTS
none
ADJOURNMENT
• Jakel moved, Schmid seconded, to adjourn at 9:57 P.M. Motion carried unanimously.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
Sue Niccum
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