090689 PK MINCITY OF SHOREWOOD
PARR COMMISSION MEETING
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 6, 1989
46
CALL TO ORDER
M I N U T E S
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
7:00 PM
Chairman Laberee called the meeting to order at 7:11 PM.
ROLL CALL
Present: Chairman Laberee, Commissioners Wilson, Vogel, Christensen,
Lindstrom, Andrus, and Weatherly (7:38 PM); Administrator
Whittaker; Engineer Norton; and Council Liaison Gagne.
Absent: Park Staff Rep Niccum
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Wilson moved, Vogel seconded, to approve the minutes of Wednesday,
September 6, 1989 with the following correction:
Change spelling of Strote to Strot - page 1
Motion carried - 6/0.
SILVERWOOD PARR QUESTIONNAIRE
The residents were invited to present their input.
,inda Tilton
The park dimensions should be stated, including a map with pertinent
information zuAAOundi ztteets, divi/Sion names, poAk zize and topography.
- The questionnaire should have a separate section where people can list
up to their top 5 choices of activities they consider necessary for
Silverwood Park. These items should also be prioritized, most important
first, etc.
- State that the land is acquired and paid for.
- Provide information on the current neighborhood population and the pro-
posed growth in the area and in the City.
- She asked that while in the process of considering other parks the the
area that people keep in mind the children in the area who are not old
enough to drive or cross busy streets.
- She said she drives by the park twice a day and it's unused.
- She asked if the park is for deer or human beings, as right now there
are no human beings using it.
Julie Daugherty
List restrooms as a facility. (Engineer Norton explained that water and
sewer are available on site.) (Gagne mentioned that,at this time,all
but one park are still using satellites.)
Daugherty offered to distribute the questionnaire. (Chairman Laberee
and Administrator Whittaker said they will discuss the process but
the questionnaires will probably be mailed directly to the residents.;
When the questionnaires are returned a public hearing will be held.)
PARK COMMISSION MEETING
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 6, 1989
page 2
SILVERWOOD PARK QUESTIONNAIRE - continued
*esident Comments
Karen Heniff
- Discuss how parks work; 7he,vc, design, Ainancing, maintenance and constAuction.
(Gagne explained that the only funding at this time is from lot fees.)
(Wilson explained the shortage of funds at this time. He also explained
that the City does not have a Park Planner /Landscape Architect on staff
at this time, but they are looking into the feasibility of retaining one
on a consulting basis. The City is also discussing various ways of fund-
ing all the parks.)
- Heniff said the Sailor ran an article last week stating that Hennipen
County Parks are 20% active /80% passive, and thats what she wants Shore-
wood's parks to be. (Gagne said he was in favor of some development.a�s
this w" p4tcchgz to be a a k, not a peed
- She said it is important to focus on a "mission" statement - who will the
park serve? She said she's concerned about the youth in the area.
- She said the residents were .in-itiat2y Aeady to maize a quick dec iZion. Now She
6 eeU it is -i.mpott tant to tuhn to the peop' te. She appnee i,a teis the C.i ty' z 6 0 ttow -up
and said it w" done with integt ty.
Barbara Christensen of 19455 Ridge Road and Kathy and Gary Swanson, and
Harold Ness who live directly adjacent to the east boundary of the park
said they felt the park should be left as a wildlife area with the possibility
of walking paths, and ask that this be one of the choices on the questionnaire.
0 arbara Christensen
- Suggests locale, dimensions, space requirements, and cost of each facility
be listed.
- Mention other parks in the area, whats in them, and the distance from
Silverwood Park.
- Said she agrees with prioritizing up to 5 items in a separate area on the
questionnaire.
- City HalladdtLaZ should be on the back along with postage and a deadline
so that they can be reversed, stapled, and returned to City Hall.
- Said people presently cross - country ski, kids slide, and people show kids
animals in the park.
- Asked about funding for play area? (Was told action stopped because of
questionnaire. Any contributions received specifically_ for Silverwood
Park would be "earmarked" for Silverwood and be held to be used for the
express purpose designated by contributes.)
Gary Swanson
- Said the existing map doesn't show trees, and he would like them shown.
He would also like the map drawn to scale.
- Said is important to have all development done at the same time, within
a 1 -2 year period. Karen Heniff disagreed with Swanson, saying it is
unrealistic to expect it to all be done at once, that doing it in stages
is mote _&eat"..t c._
- Said there are no parks in the area with nature trails.
-2-
PARK COMMISSION MEETING
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 6, 1989
Page 3
SILVERWOOD PARK QUESTIONNAIRE - continued
c ommissioner Lind6tAom informed Swanson that Shorewood has a 60 acre park-
Freeman Park - that has approximately 20 acres of wooded preserve with wood -
chip trails. ChvLatenzen a zo exptained the 50' night -off -way to Sitvek Laze and .6aid
the Comm -zzion had dizc"Zed - putting in a dock and pozzibty a watkway thAough the marsh.
Holly Jones
- asked what would be in the cover letter and on the map?
Chairman Laberee said that it hasn't been decided yet, the current map is
very preliminary, it basically showed how items recommended in the
comprehensive plan would fit in the park area.
Harold Ness
- Will everything be listed so the residents can decide?
- Harold Ness and Linda Tilton requested listing and grouping items that
can overlap or be combined (i.e. football /soccer, tennis courts /basketball
courts, hockey /soccer, etc)
- Will preliminary plan be open for review? (Chairman and Administrator
said yes, and the residents will be notified when it is available.)
- He pointed out that a neighborhood park is not for organized sports, that
he has been involved in athletic activities in other parks such as
Badger Park. (Badger Park is a neighborhood Park.)
1 6he Commission then began their discussion.
The definition "pick -up ballfield" was discussed. Sugge6tionz inctuded:
- unfinished ballfield
- all -turf ballfield ( Laberee & Wilson felt this term signified a backstop)
- sandlot
- non - organized ballfield
- area allocated for playing ball
Commissioner Vogel brought up the fact that the Silverwood Park area is not
a level piece of land, it's quite hilly and this results in the loss of a
lot of space.
Chairman Laberee thanked the residents for their input. He discussed the
cover letter, saying it could outline current parks, the current budget, and
the current Park Capital Improvement Fund. He also told residentsthat;a
bond referendum, which would raise taxes to fund park improvement, is being
considered. He discussed stages, saying that perhaps all the rough grading
could be done at one time. He said he knows the park is small and the
Commission will discuss multi -use. He explained that prioritizing up to 5
items would allow the Commission to narrow the list of options to be con -
idered. He told the residents that the Commission would consider the phus-
0
eng this evening and get the questionnaire out as soon as possible. He
also reminded the residents that the Park Commission is only an advisory
body to the City Council and the final decision would be up to the Council.
-3-
PARR COMMISSION MINUTES
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 6, 1989
Page 4
SILVERWOOD PARK QUESTIONNAIRE - continued
W ommissioner Weatherly volunteered to redo the questionnaire for Park
Commission review.
PARK CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT FUND STATUS
No action was taken. The Commission needs an update on the P.C.I.F. and
Freeman Park costs.
FREEMAN PARR
A. Field Depth - Letter to Engineer - Any Changes?
B. Plans and Specs - Engineer Jim Norton
Engineer Norton presented the preliminary plans and specs for the fencing
of three softball field in Freeman park. He explained what has been done
so far. He showed the Commission that the {pence was designed to protect
open areas and prevent vehicle access. He showed the line fence4 25' 0�
the base path. He said ASA (Amateur Softball Association) guidelines were
used. He said he would be happy to answer any questions the Commission may
have.
The Commission discussed galvanized fencing vs. black vinyl fencing. George
Haun said the fabric for black vinyl wasn't an issue, that the gates and
posts raise costs, and this could mean a 30 % -70% cost increase over galvan-
ized fencing.
&aberee mentioned aesthetics, warranties, and breakdown. Haun said the
vinyl doesn't fade but enachs under 40 to 50 degrees if hit. Noxton said
he put green vinyl fencing in his yard 4 years ago and it is already peeling
at the friction points.
Haun said Becker Park in Crystal has vinyl fencing if anyone wants to check
it out.
The Commission discussed the black vinyl vs. galvanized with Engineer Norton
and George Haun. They decided to get bids on both of them.
The following decisions were made by the Park Commission. This is the
information they want on the plans and specs to go out for bids:
Backstops 16 feet high
George Haun said fencing comes in 8' widths and -its but to avoid cutting
and spti.c i,ng.
Foul Line Fences
Outfield Fences
Gates
Maintenance Gates
10 feet high /90 feet long
8 feet high
All staggered 4 each field
Backstop - 2 Outfield - 2
1 each field at end of 10' fence
• South field
West Field
North Field
1st Base
3rd Base
1st Base
-4-
PARR COMMISSION MINUTES
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 6, 1989
Page 5
FREEMAN PARR
&lans and Specs to go out for Bids
Warning Track Each Field
From infield around outfield before fences installed. Not to be included
in the bid - Council to be asked to have Public Works install this. Top
dressing
a n( weed contr 1 ill be required annually. T w e eaieA to
main t�ian gra�s�s unde�c t�eences.
Estimate for - Warning Track on 3 fields at Freeman Park - by Don Zdrazil
630 Tons rock x $8.50 $5,355.
Loader - 64 hrs x $45 2,880.
Truck - 40 hrs x 16.90 676.
Bobcat - 30 hrs x 26.45 793.
$9,704.
3 operators x 65 hrs = 195 hrs x $14.77 2,880.
Supervisor - 20 hrs x $22.39 44 7.80
3,327.80
Total Estimate $13,031.80
Chain and Post Fencin
Have Public Works install around Northwest parking lot and 30' along
Railroad /Park boundary where vehicles could enter park. Post sign
"No Motorized Vehicles ".
Fence Field Depth 285' on all fields
Other important issues regarding fencing
- Anchor fabric every 80" for proper tension
- bending wire ties - no sharp points
- use spec ia2 botts Aso they can't be removed
- plumb and level the gates
- knuckle - knuckle the top o6 the hence.
- wse top ban
- tension wire on bottom
- 6 gauge backstop
- 9 gauge line fences
- concrete footings -36" deep /tine 6encez and 4 8 "deep backstop (do not cuse vase shape)
The Commission wishes the Council to be aware that the above specifications
were chosen to provide the safest conditions possible thus avoiding the
possibility of lawsuits and and providing player and spectatot protection.
Andrus moved, Weatherly seconded, to recommend to Council that they
include a warning track, and that they direct Public Works Director
Zdrazil to prepare the warning track before the fence is put in. Motion
carried - 7/0.
-5-
PARR COMMISSION MINUTES
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 6, 1989
Page 6
REEMAN PARR - continued
Administrator Whittaker pointed out to the Commission that if Public Works
Director Zdrazil has to do the warning track and the fencing around the
parking lot and along the Railroad line, the building of a new hockey rink
in Cathcart Park may have to be postponed until next year. He said the rink
would be repaired.
The rock on the Railroad Corridor was mentioned. Many compliments have been
received.
Regrading of the North Field
The Commission discussed the regrading of the North field. Engineer Norton
said Phil Tipka has staked out the field to cut the right field and to level
the center left field. Haun highly recommends cutting the right field
12' -18' and level the left field over the center field. Norton said Haun
has sample specs that he will use.
Washout on North Field
Haun pointed out that there
the parking area, he said a
C. Irrigation
- George Haun
is quite a washout on the north diamond from
slight berm is needed when the field is regraded.
Haun said he'd talked to Laberee and Sue. He said an ideal time to irrigate
� ould be before the fences go in. He thinks the City will want irrigation
o avoid losing the turf. He said you can see bad grass when irrigation is
not available. Haun said Toro had done a lot of work for him so they worked
up the plans and specs for all fields (3 softball and football) at no cost.
He said he doesn't think it is necessary for the Engineer to spec this. He
said it's not necessary to use Toro but they put in the best product.
He said it is a very detailed plan with recessed heads. He estimated the
cost at $34,000- 38,000, and said this is not a bad price for quality. He
said if galvanized fencing is used the amount saved would be almost enough
to do two ballfields. Gagne asked if they were automatic. Haun said yes.
It was said that the pressure at the hydrant is 65 PSI so a booster would
be needed to do the far fields. Haun said he would leave the plans with
the City. Laberee asked about maintenance, blowing out the heads? Haun
said you blow them out with a compressor - he said the first year the
contractor will show the City how. He said the whole are could be watered
in 4 hours. The watering could start at 3:00 AM. Laberee said more details
are needed on back filling and compacting. Haun agreed. Laberee asked
Gagne when it should be presented to Council? Gagne said he would inform
the Council.
Goalposts
Christensen said he talked to Tom Bartsh about the football fields and the
football Association will pay for the goalposts. Haun said Public Works
could make the goalposts using 23- outside diameter pipe and incorporate a
occer net. Sue is to call Christensen with a price. The Commission
xplained the criss -cross configuration of the football /soccer field to
Haun. Haun then said portable soccer goals are easy to get but they need
to be anchored.
I am
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 6, 1989
Page 7
� AN PARR
EM
Gagne said he felt the football /soccer would need irrigation if it was
going to be used for both activities.
GEORGE HAUN
Chairman Laberee thanked Haun for all the work he has done, especially the
irrigation. Haun thanked the Commission. He said it has been enjoyable
working with them. He said Don Zdrazil and his people are excellent. Haun
said he will review the specs for the fences. Whittaker said Haun will be
used for 9 - 10 hours to oversee installation. Haun left at 10:02 PM.
REPORTS
Council Liaison Gagne reported on the following items:
Manor Park Warming House
Council approved a temporary trailor for 1 year.
Joint Meeting - Park /Planning
The Planning Commission wants to meet with the Park Commission in October.
Sue is to ask Brad to schedule the meeting for October 4 or October 18.
MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
Football
Christensen said the Football Association wants to start on Saturday.
They have their insurance. They need a key.
General Discussion P.C.I.F.
Administrator Whittaker said the fund would probably be at least $10,000
short with the fences.
Silverwood Park Questionnaire
The Commission asked that Administrator do the cover letter.
Commission agreed to drop the regulation softball field. They will add
"all -turf sports field".
Manor Warming House /Trailer
Gagne asked that Sue line up the trailer, light over the pond, and what
ever else is needed.
Waterford Third Additon and Highway 7 Intersection
Gagne explained that there is a public hearing at the Minnewashta School
on September 12 if anyone is interested in attending.
Liaison needed
Christensen, the September Liaison, said he will be out of town and asked
for a replacement. Andrus volunteered.
ADJOURNMENT
Lindstrom moved, Weatherly seconded, to adjourn at 10:32 PM. Motion
carried unanimously. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED FROM NOTES - Sue Niccum
Page 7