061290 PK MIN
CITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PARK COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY, JUNE 12, 1990 7:00 PM
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Christensen called the meeting to order at 7:08 PM.
ROLL CALL
Present: Chairman Christensen, Commissioners Andrus, Lindstrom, Vogel,
Weatherly, and Wilson; Council Liaison Watten; and
Administrative Assistant Niccum
Absent: Laberee (called-business)
LITTLE LEAGUE FIELD - TONKA MEN'S CLUB
Paul Krueger, 6015 Burlwood Court, complimented the Commission on the
new area of Freeman Park. He said he lives right behind the BMX Track,
and would like to know what is planned for that area.
Niccum said that on 6/8/90 Public Works Director Zdrazil, Park Planner
Mark Koegler, Tonka Men's Club Representative Jim Quast, and herself
met.
Koegler asked what the Tonka Men's Club had to offer in dollars and
labor. He said someone will have to set grades and figure out drainage.
Quast said he had talked to Jim Latterner and Leonard George. They will
start with $10,000. They have more but are only allocating this amount
to begin with. They have not received an answer from VoTech, so they
are going to hire a private contractor. Koegler asked that when they do
this, they give the City at least two weeks notice before any work is
scheduled.
The Club is asking the City to level the site, estimate the grades, do
the staking, and do the parking lot. They will do the finished grading,
provide the materials and install a full fence, do the seeding, and
build the dugouts.
Koegler asked what their time frame is. Quaas said hopefully this Fall.
Koegler asked Quast to call him with any changes. Quast agreed to do
so.
Christensen expressed concern, stating that he didn't want the City to
end up with a half-finished project. He asked that the City be assured
that the project will be finished before it is allowed to begin.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Andrus moved, Wilson seconded, to approve the minutes of Tuesday, May
8, 1990, as written. Motion carried - 6/0.
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PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
TUESDAY, JUNE 12, 1990
Page two
IRRIGATION
Niccum informed the Commission that Mark Koegler, of Van Doren Hazard
Stallings, Shorewood’s Park Planner, had been selected by the City
Council to proceed with design, plans and specifications, preparation
of bidding documents, and supervision and inspection of the irrigation
system for Freeman Park softball fields. He is to present the plans and
specs to Administrator Whittaker for Park Commission and Council
approval before seeking bids. Once these are done, with a cost estimate
for the improvements, the Council will have to authorize bidding and
the advertisement.
Watten informed the Commission that this falls within the realm of the
Park Planner. He told the Commission that the Council had voted to have
Engineer Norton, the City Engineer, do all engineering work required in
the parks. He explained that the City has a contract with 0SM for the
remainder of 1990.
Chairman Christensen said the Commission will discuss this at greater
length under agenda item #9.
SOFTBALL TOURNAMENT - EXCELSIOR SOFTBALL LEAGUE - FREEMAN PARK
Commissioner Lindstrom, former co-presiuent of the Excelsior Softball
League apologized because this came up so late, he said that he had
planned to bring it up earlier but the meetings were cancelled.
Lindstrom said the tournament will be played Friday, Saturday, and
Sunday - June 22, 23, and 24. The profits will be donated back to the
City. A total of 36 teams will play in the tournament.
He explained how they worked with the City of Excelsior - they pay $150
for the weekend use - this entitles them to garbage pickup, City
insurance aglime and the bathrooms.
Niccum pointed out that in Excelsior the bathrooms are in the building,
in Shorewood, at this time, each satellite costs $42, and any special
servicing on the weekend costs $25 per satellite per day. If there were
4 satellites, the cost would be $168 plus $100 a day for special
servicing. Eventually a park building will be built, with bathrooms,
and this expense will be alleviated. This is why the current policy is
to have the athletic associations and organizations provide any
additional satellites and servicing.
Lindstrom said the League wants to expand the tournament, get more
people involved. They also want to help Shorewood with the fields. He
said the League will install the bases, including the bases at Manor
Park. They also have a group going out to the fields to "pick rocks"
next Saturday. Lindstrom said he and Dan Randall would be Directors at
Freeman Park. He explained that the entry fees basically cover field
use, supplies, and umpires.
Chairman Christensen read the contract to the Commissioners.
Lindstrom said the City will gain from this; it will move the schedule
ahead a year - the aglime and bases will already be in for next Spring.
Also, the use of the field by experienced players will help us do
things
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PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
TUESDAY, JUNE 12, 1990
Page three
SOFTBALL TOURNAMENT - EXCELSIOR SOFTBALL LEAGUE - FREEMAN PARK -
continued
Niccum informed the Commission that the Council had acted on this
request. They approved the use of the fields for the tournament, and
the concession. They want the Park Commission to decide if a $250
deposit should be requested. They also want them to discuss the
concessions - what they will be selling, and how it will be handled.
One of the conditions of approval by the Council was that the tent be
placed on the parking lot.
Dave Workman of the Excelsior Softball League was present to explain
that the League would be using a 35' x 20' tent. They will be selling
hot dogs brats, candy, pop, and chips. They will be using gas grills
only for the purpose of boiling water for the hot dogs and brats. They
are willing to put the tent on the parking lot if this is the Council's
condition, although they would have preferred to have it in a central
location. They had planned to have it between the fields for
convenience and shade. They planned to put picnic tables in it, and
rotate them every day to prevent a lot of foot traffic in one spot.
They will haul away all garbage. He said there is always someone
picking up trash. They have talked to the Little League and East Tonka,
and will be using the bleachers from the other end of the park. The
bleachers will be returned to their original location after the
tournament.
The Commission discussed a deposit.
Weatherly moved, Wilson seconded, to recommend to Council that the
Excelsior Softball League present a check for $200 to the City as a
deposit, and that the check be held until after the tournament. At that
time if everything is satisfactory, the check be returned to the
League. Motion carried - 5 ayes - one abstain (Lindstrom).
The Commission discussed the tent location. Niccum said that due to a
telephone conversation with Todd Strot expressing concern over being
able to anchor the tent on the parking lot, she had asked Zdrazil about
damage to the grass. Zdrazil said he didn't see any problem with
putting the tent on the grass, he thought it would do less harm than is
currently being done by the soccer association. Niccum also asked Mark
Laberee. He said if it had rained within the last two days, put it on
the parking lot, otherwise it could be tried on the grass. If it
started to wear, it would have to be moved. The Commission discussed
the location regarding the convenience, the fact that it would be a
good opportunity to put the tent in the location proposed for the
permanent shelter to see if it actually is the best spot for the
shelter. They realize that the Council has already acted on this.
Because they didn't know if the Council had all the information at the
time of their decision, and with the possibility of a responsible
person being put in charge to consider location, they decided to ask
the Council if they would reconsider their decision under these
conditions.
Andrus moved, Weatherly seconded, to recommend to the Council that they
reconsider their decison and allow the possibility of placing the tent
on the grass. Motion carried - 5 ayes - 1 abstain (Lindstrom).
ESTIMATES - MASTER PLANS OF ALL PARKS/PARK CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN
Andrus moved, Wilson seconded, to recommend to the Council that they
approve the Park Planner's estimates of $1,200-1,500 to prepare the
park plans for Badger, Cathcart, Manor and Freeman; and $1,000 for
preparation of the Capital Improvement Plans not to exceed $2,500.
Motion carried 6/0.
—3—
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
TUESDAY, JUNE 12, 1990
Page four
PLANNING
The Commission discussed the problem regarding park funding. They also
discussed the fact that the procedure required took so long to get
everything accomplished. They want to get the "entire picture" of whats
needed in the entire park system, and the cost, to the Council. They
questioned if there was a way to expedite. progress on things like the
estimates for the park plans, the PCIP, and the picnic tables. Watten
said the Commission should let the Council know what they want.
Weatherly moved, Andrus seconded, to ask the Council to establish a
level of spending that the Park Commission can use on a discretionary
basis in the above type of situation; and that they let the Commission
know what the cap is . The Commission recommended $2,500 per item, not
to exceed 10 items ($25,000) a year. Motion carried - 6/0.
OVERALL CITY TRAIL SYSTEM - ESTIMATE REQUESTED FROM PARK PLANNER
Weatherly moved, Lindstrom seconded, to recommend to the Council that
they have Administrator Whittaker request an estimate from the Park
Planner on an overall City trail map--to include:
- current and future trails
- a way of connecting the City parks by trail
- possible trails to points of interest (i.e. schools, lake, etc)
- attachments of trails to the trail systems in surrounding communities
- all trail easements now owned by the City
Motion carried - 6/0.
SILVERWOOD PARK
Niccum told the Commission that July 24, 1990 - a regular meeting date
there will be a neighborhood meeting at City Hall regarding the
Silverwood Park Plan.
The Commission reviewed the revised park plan and were pleased with it.
SILVERWOOD PARK/HIGHWAY 7 TRAIL
It was brought to the Commission's attention that part of the trail is
being maintained by residents as part of their yard. They expressed
concern over making sure the trail is marked in some way to alleviate
future problems.
FREEMAN PARK - "OFFICIAL OPENING"
Niccum told the Commission that Commissioner Laberee had asked her to
convey the suggestion to them that some type of "ribbon cutting
ceremony" be held before the first tournament game, with both papers
present. He thought perhaps a drawing of Freeman Park, with directions
to the park and the statement that the fields are not officially open
for play until next year, could be put in the paper. Remember, the
first game will be held on June 22, a Friday.
The Commission liked the idea. They would like to see this done.
—4—
PARK COMMISSION MEEETING
TUESDAY, JUNE 12, 1990
Page five
SHOREWOOD T-SHIRTS
Andrus suggested having "City of Shorewood " T-shirts - with the logo
on them - made up to sell at the Excelsior Softball Tournament.
Niccum explained that by the time the Council approved the purchase, it
would be too late. Andrus said he would purchase them.
SOCCER ASSOCIATION
Niccum read the letter received by the residents of Shorewood, dated
May 25, 1990, to the Commission. She also read her memo to the Council.
She told the Commission how much time the City had been required to
spend with the residents because of this letter. She explained the
meeting with Mike Henderson, the President of the Tonka United Soccer
Association. She said he had promised a follow-up letter to the
residents, apologizing for the inconvenience, but she had not received
it yet.
JOINT PARK COMMISSION/CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Niccum explained that the Council had postponed the joint meeting with
the Park Commission. This was done to enable them to get more
information together for their presentation regarding park funding.
The Park Commission still wishes to meet with the Council. They feel
there is a definite communication problem going on, and want to sit
down with the Council and talk about it. They asked Watten to go back
to the Council with this request.
Long Range Plans
The Park Commissson is working on updating the park plans, doing an
overall trail plan, and doing a complete PCIP.
Budget
The Commission has come up with a list of priorities for 1990. They
will have to finish their PCIP to get an overall picture. This will be
discussed at greater length.
Role of Park Commission/Role of Park Planner
Christensen reported on the Council Study Session of June 4, 1990,
particularly the discussion on the role of the park planner and the
engineer. He reviewed the two motions, and presented the Council's
final decision.
The Commissions discussed their feelings regarding the Park Planner/
OSM decision, and the Council/Park Commission relationship.
WEATHERLY RESIGNS
Commissioner Weatherly will be leaving the Park Commission at the end
of August. She would like to participate in a joint meeting with the
Council before that time.
—5—
PARK COMMISSION MEETING
TUESDAY, JUNE 12, 1990
Page six
COUNCIL/PARK COMMISSION RELATIONSHIP
Weatherly said she feels the Park Commission has a genuine and generous
concern regarding the parks - if the Council has the same concerns, why
are they adversaries? She said in her job it is very important to give
the correct tools to the people that work for you, and one of these
tools is motivation. She said being on the Park Commission should be a
challenge, and it should be fun - not constant frustration. She said
the whole issue of the Parks Planner/Landscape Arctitect came up
because of disatisfaction with the City Engineer - and it was concern
for the City, and the residents of the City that caused the Park
Commission to draw the Council's attention to what was happening. She
said you will not find many groups that are as dedicated as the present
Park Commission.
Watten said he felt the Council's objective is the same as the Park
Commission's, there is just a lack of communication. He said he feels
it is important to discuss these issues at the joint meeting.
Andrus said he feels very strongly about the Engineer, he cited certain
errors. He said it is obvious that the Company does not have a feel for
parks. He said they charged 80% to 500% more than other Engineers
quoted, and the City just paid it. He said as a taxpayer, he resents
fact that the City paid $11,000 for a job that should have cost $2,000.
He sees the Council ignoring the research and input provided by the
Park Commission over and over again, and it's just not right. He said
the Council is
not willing to change. He said the Commission has pointed things out to
the Council in the minutes over and over again - the information is
right there in the minutes. He said it has reached to point where
he is willing to bring in an independent firm to accomplish what he
feels
the Council is failing to accomplish, and publish the results in the
newspaper if this is what it takes.
Christensen said the Engineer has played absurd "word games" with both
the Commission and the Council, he has done poor workmanship, and is
guilty of over-pricing. He said the Park Commission would have been
remiss if they had not called the Council's attention to what’s been
happening.
Watten said 0SM is not price gouging - the other firms are new and just
trying to get their foot in the door. He said OSM is a reputable firm.
One of the Commissioner's said a vivid example is a $5,700 bill,
recently paid. The Council asked the Engineer to substanciate it, and
it became over $11,000.
Watten said he would not tolerate this type of discussion. That the
Commission had to meet with the Council and the Engineering firm and
make their accusations.
Wilson said the Council has a financial responsibility to minimize the
cost.
The Commission said they did not see any reason to meet with 0SM. They
have already discussed their concerns with the Engineer. What he has to
say is not important - cost is what is important.
PARK COMMISSION MEETING
TUESDAY, JUNE 12, 1990
Page seven
COUNCIL/PARK COMMISSION RELATIONSHIP - continued
Andrus said he talked to 4 people on the cost of the fence, not one of
them was over $2,000. He said if the Engineer had done this to him
personally, he would have had him in court.
Weatherly said it appears the Council had choosen sides and lost their
objectivity, they always take the Engineer's side, right or wrong. The
stance of the Park Commission is totally dismissed in their eyes.
Andrus said if he is removed from the Commission, he will fight this as
a taxpayer.
Mrs. Vogel said this infuriates her. She said she will be glad to dig
out information, that three people on the Council fight against the two
Councilmembers who are trying to protect the City and the taxpayers.
Christensen said there are some smart people on the Park Commission.
The have only made recommendations to the Council - but they think the
Council should consider the Engineering Contract for the good of the
City The Commission discussed the fact that all the information they
are trying to present to the Council was available to the Council in
1989, and the Park Commission recommended withholding funds from the
Engineer at that time, but the Council went right ahead and renewed the
Contract.
The Commission would like to make it crystal clear to the Council that
they like Jim Norton as a person, that this is not a "personality
conflict", they are concerned about costs.
Watten encouraged the Commission to discuss these things with the
Council in a joint meeting.
MANOR PARK FENCE
Lindstrom moved, Andrus seconded, to recommend to Council that they
approve the 8' section on fence in Manor Park in order to avoid
liability problems. Motion carried - 6/0.
NFXT AGENDA
1. Park fees
2. Cathcart Hockey Rink
3. Weatherly - replacement
4. Bylaws
ADJOURNMENT
Weatherly moved, Lindstrom seconded, to adjourn at 11:45 PM. Motion
carried - 6/O.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Sue Niccum
Park Administrative Assistant