042997 PK MINCITY OF SHOREWOOD
PARK COMMISSION MEETING
TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 1997
MINUTES
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Colopoulos called the meeting to order at 7:31 P.M.
2. ROLL CALL
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
7:30 P.M.
Present: Chair Colopoulos; Commissioners Puzak, Bensman, Dallman, Arnst, Wilson
arrived at 8:30 P.M.; Council Liaison McCarty; Administrator Hurm; Chief
Young.
Absent: None.
3. REVIEW AGENDA
There were no changes to the agenda.
4. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Regular Meeting of March 25, 1997: Administrator Hurm referred to his memo dated 4/29/97
regarding clarification of the March 25, 1997 meeting minutes. He stated that further explanation
was necessary concerning a right -of -way statement he had made during that meeting. In the
memo, Administrator Hurm noted that the right -of -way issue is one of many potential problems
concerning an off - street trail on Smithtown Road. He requested that his memo dated 4/29/97 be
made part of Park Commission minutes.
Commissioner Dallman moved, Puzak seconded, to reference and attach Administrator
Hurm's memo dated 4/29/97 to these minutes (see Exhibit A). Motion carried
unanimously.
Commissioner Arnst moved, Dallman seconded, to approve the minutes of March 25, 1997
as submitted. Motion carried unanimously.
Regular Meeting of April 8, 1997: Commissioner Dallman moved, Arnst seconded, to
approve the minutes of April 8, 1997 as submitted. Motion carried unanimously.
5. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
SHOREWOOD PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 1997
page 2
There were no matters from the floor.
6. EVALUATION OF SNOWMOBILE DATA: `96 —`97 SEASON
Chair Colopoulos noted that the ARS (911) information was collated by Virginia Kolstad, and
requested her to highlight the reports.
Virginia Kolstad reported that she had compiled and analyzed last year's data and wanted to
follow through with the same reporting format for this season's data. She referred to the report
"Snowmobile Complaints: Database Comparison 1996 and 1997 ". These are the police records
of activity and they fall into three categories:
1) Complaints initiated by the residents via 911 call
2) Actual incidents observed by the officers when they are out on the trail
3) Periods of time when the officers are patrolling the trail
She noted from last year's data (`95 —`96 season) that frustrating situations occurred because
officers were unavailable, unable to locate the violator, were out of position, etc. She also noted
that the officers were frustrated because they were not able to apprehend the snowmobile
violators from squad cars.
This year's data revealed a different scenario: often an officer was available to respond to a
complaint; the officer was taking action to prevent a violation (stopping snowmobiler before
leaving their property, educating people on the Ordinance, passing out information); and the
officer was able to apprehend a violator because the officer was actually patrolling the trail on a
snowmobile.
Virginia Kolstad referred to the December 1996 — March 1997 calendars, and observed that the
number of citations significantly dropped over this time period: 77 citations in December 1996; 21
citations in January; 29 citations in February; and 15 citations in March 1997. Her interpretation
of this data was that the enforcement had a significant impact and there were fewer violators. She
also noted that there was a reduction of complaints throughout the season. She suggested that
the data revealed that Officer Keller did an excellent job of enforcement.
Commissioner Arnst questioned Virginia Kolstad's involvement with this year's snowmobile
evaluation. Virginia Kolstad responded by stating that she had been working with Administrator
Hurm as a resident to provide some input. Commissioner Arnst verified that Virginia Kolstad
reviewed police reports, and questioned if she had spoken with residents who have come in with
complaints. Virginia Kolstad responded that she had not spoken with residents regarding their
complaints.
Tom Brown, 5570 Harding Lane, inquired if the MN DNR snowmobile data included complaints
from the DNR Hotline. City staff will research this inquiry.
Commissioner Arnst noted that the second page of the Database Analysis targeted four addresses
and questioned the value of this information. Virginia Kolstad's analysis compared last year's
SHOREWOOD PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 1997
page 3
addresses with this year's residential area of complaints. Her analysis shows that out of 99
resident complaints last year, 43% of those came from four households; and this year out of 57
complaints approximately 50% of those came from two households. Virginia Kolstad left the
interpretation of this data to the Park Commissioners.
There were no questions for Chief Young.
Councilmember McCarty commented on the memo dated 4/29/97 addressed to the Park
Commission from Councilmember O'Neill. Councilmember McCarty referenced the statement "I
believe at this point in time the Council is committed to continuing with the Task Force
recommendations for the 1997/98 season..." She stated that the Council has not discussed this
issue. Councilmember O'Neill's questions contained in the second paragraph of his memo are for
Park Commission discussion items.
Commissioner Bensman stated that the Park Commission was asked to evaluate and monitor the
data for this current season. A City Council decision for snowmobile usage in Shorewood is
necessary. Councilmember McCarty noted that the Task Force completed their work, and now
the Park Commission has been requested to evaluate how well their recommendations were
followed.
Chair Colopoulos proposed submitting the `96 —`97 evaluation data, in addition to the
Snowmobile Task Force Report to the City Council for their review and action.
Commissioner Bensman moved, seconded by Dallman, to recommend the new enforcement
data be forwarded to the City Council for their consideration.
Discussion followed regarding five questions and responses by Council as recorded in the minutes
of the April 14, 1997 meeting:
1) Should the Park Commission make general observations and recommendations
regarding implementation of the plan?
2) Should the Park Commission analyze the data from 1996/1997 and make comments?
3) Should the Park Commission determine further actions which could be taken to
possible improve the program?
4) Should the park Commission make specific recommendations relative to the Timber
Lane access and the LRT side trail?
5) Should the Park Commission take public input on their discussions or should this be
deferred to the Council?
Councilmember McCarty stated that the Council would like input from the Park Commission on
Questions 1 through 4 prior to making a decision relative to a public hearing.
SHOREWOOD PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 1997
page 4
Commissioner Bensman withdrew her motion.
Commissioner Puzak stated that the Task Force was given a problem, and addressed it in several
ways: changes in the Snowmobile Ordinance; curfew; patrol; and money. Evaluation this season
should focus on how enforcement of the changes impacted snowmobile activity; and if they did
not reduce /diminish the problem, then it would be appropriate to recommend a different
approach.
Commissioner Puzak said that one issue the Park Commission could address is signage. Current
speed limit signs are too lengthy to be read from a snowmobile traveling 20 m.p.h. Commissioner
Puzak said that a snowmobiler entering Shorewood from the lake may assume the speed limit is
50 m.p.h. Commissioner Arnst inquired if Hennepin County regulated the size of signs on the
trail. Administrator Hurm said that the City would request Hennepin County to work with us on
signage; however they do not oversee any activity on the trail during the winter months. If the
City removed the snowmobile speed limit signs at the end of each season, Administrator Hurm did
not foresee any problems with the county.
Commissioner Puzak moved, Dallman seconded, to recommend to Council that the speed
limit signs be enlarged to be clearly legible from a snowmobile traveling at 20 m.p.h.; with
at least 3" high lettering. Motion carried unanimously.
Eric Jacobson, 6055 Riviera Lane, president of South Tonka Snowmobilers, noted that grant -in-
aid funding for trail grooming is under DNR control. The DNR has standard signs that are to be
used on trails supported by grant -in -aid funding. The speed limit signs found on streets and
highways cannot be used on trails.
Duane Laurila, 5595 Eureka Road, asked if the Park Commission is approving snowmobile usage
on the trail because they are recommending enlarging the speed limit signs. Commissioner Puzak
said that issue was not in the motion; they are only making a recommendation for signage.
Commissioner Puzak moved, Bensman seconded, that the following reports received by the
Park Commission be forwarded to the City Council for their consideration: Current
Snowmobile Ordinance; Memo dated 4/21/97 Summary of South Lake Minnetonka Public
Safety Department ( SLMPSD); Memo dated 1/28/97 from Chief Young to Virginia
Kolstad; Officer Keller's narrative of snowmobile activity during `96 —`97 season; SLMPSD
Activity Report `96 —`97 Season spreadsheets; Database Comparison 1996 and 1997 (ARS)
Summary and 1997 Snowmobile Complaint Log; MN DNR Report; `96 —`97 Trail Walk
Reports; 1996/1997 Snow Patrol Report; `96 —`97 Snowfall Information; and Financial
Report. Motion carried unanimously.
7. DETAIL OF MINUTES
Chair Colopoulos opened discussion on the protocol for recording minutes of the Park
Commission meetings. He thought the minutes should be a fair and accurate representation of
what was said during the meeting; not a transcript.
SHOREWOOD PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
TUESDAY, APRIL 29, 1997
page 5
Commissioner Bensman stated that if minutes are to be useful to the Park Commission as a
recommending body, the minutes do not have to have the same accountability as minutes for a
policy - making body. Minutes are to provide evidence that there was a discussion.
Commissioner Arnst recalled when the Commission had to interpret a motion made at a previous
meeting regarding the Request For Proposal (RFP) for the concession trailer at Freeman Park.
The minutes were brief regarding this motion. Because the City Council is concerned with
communication, and the fact that Park Commission minutes are now available on the Internet, she
would prefer detailed minutes for reference purposes.
Commissioner Puzak referred to Robert's Rules of Order stating that minutes are the official
record of proceedings at meetings. Minutes should reflect the actions, motions, tablings and
proceedings of the meeting, and not as much of the conversation. He also stated that if the Park
Commission finds an error or misrepresentation, then they will request the secretary to review and
re -write as opposed to any Commissioner submitting an alternate section for their review.
Commissioner Bensman suggested a synopsis of the meeting be presented on the web page in lieu
of the actual minutes. Commissioner Puzak felt that information on the web page should be
concise.
Commissioner Wilson responded to Commissioner Arnst's concern about the minutes
documenting the RFP motion because he was involved in that particular discussion. He noted
that the Commissioners did refer to the minutes and found clarification of the issue.
8. NEW BUSINESS
Administrator Hurm reminded Commissioners that the two May meetings will begin at 6:00 P.M.
for the park tours, followed by regular meetings beginning at 8:00 P.M. The Freeman Park picnic
shelter and tennis courts will be discussed during the tour on May 13, and a public hearing for a
Conditional Use Permit will be held on May 20 during the Planning Commission meeting.
9. ADJOURNMENT
Commissioner Arnst moved, Bensman seconded, to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried
unanimously. Meeting was adjourned at 9:10 P.M.
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April 29, 1997
Memorandum
To: Park Commission
From: James C. Hurm
RE: Clarification on the March 25, 1997 Park Commission Meeting Minutes
At the last Park Commission meeting Commissioner Pat Arnst submitted a sheet of additional minutes
for the March 25, 1997 meeting. In those minutes I was attributed as saying that it is the City's
position that we do not have right -of -way problems on Smithtown Road. That clearly did not come
across as I had intended. Therefore I feel further explanation is in order.
Pat Arnst asked the question:
"I think there is a lot of valuable information here, but there is one question that
keeps coming up in my mind and that is: What are our right -of -way problems on
• Smithtown Road? Do you know the answer to that? I think if we have seven or
eight pieces of property that we have a definite problem with, how much time do
we want to spend until we have resolved what our problems are in that area ?"
That question deserves a much more thorough and thoughtful response:
There are clearly a whole range of issues to be addressed regarding an off - street trail on Smithtown
Road. Potential right -of -way conflicts is one of a number of potential problems:
• There are strong feelings against an off - street trail by properties along the route.
• The City's policy generally has been to incorporate trail construction with the reconstruction of a
street. Smithtown Road is no longer scheduled for reconstruction.
• Funding mechanism — because Smithtown Road is not scheduled for reconstruction, State MSA
funds cannot be used. This then would affect the fund balance in the City's trail fund, thereby
affecting other potential trail projects.
• There have been lengthy petitions both for and against an off - street trail. A trail would need to
be designed around existing trees, boulders, bushes, and mailboxes.
• There are significant drainage concerns that a trail design would need to take into consideration.
• Some homes are very close to Smithtown Road, raising privacy concerns and causing a shift of
the trail.
• Some landowners may now claim ownership to what had been State right -of -way over many
decades. At some point when we know how much right -of -way will be needed, we will need to
identify and talk with those who feel they own and should receive compensation for that right -of-
way.
It is good to have a committee of the Park Commission work with staff to devise a schedule for
reviewing the Smithtown trail question. I am not convinced that right -of -way questions are any more
pressing than any of the other questions and challenges before the Commission.
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