090997 PK MINCITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PARK COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 9, 1997 7:30 P.M.
MINUTES
1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
Chair Colopoulos called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
A. ROLL CALL
Present: Chair Colopoulos; Commissioners Puzak, Dallman, Arnst (arrived at 7:37 p.m.),
Bensman, Wilson (arrived at 9:50 p.m.) and Packard; Council Liaison McCarty
(arrived at 8:45 p.m.); Administrator Jim Hurm
B. REVIEW AGENDA
Chair Colopoulos requested Agenda Item No. 5 be moved up Agenda Item No. 3 for
consideration.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Park Commission Meeting Minutes of August 12, 1997
Packard moved, Puzak seconded, to approve the minutes as submitted. Motion passed 4/0.
(Commissioner Bensman abstained.)
3. REVIEW FINAL REPORT ON CONCESSION TRAILER IN FREEMAN PARK
Todd Strot was present and reported on the concession trailer's first season. Commissioner
Dallman asked how Mr. Strot views his role in the coming year. Mr. Strot stated he would like to
oversee the operation, however, he would like to see additional participation from the Park
Foundation as well as another person to transport the trailer and set it up. (Commissioner Arnst
arrived at 7:37 p.m.)
Commissioner Dallman asked whether Mr. Strot foresees an increase in his salary in the coming
year. Mr. Strot explained there was an agreement that he would receive 25 percent of the net
sales, however, he felt it more appropriate, given the current sales, to reach a compromise of
$700. Mr. Strot noted out of that amount, teenage helpers who were hired for the 4th of July will
be paid as well as the replacement Mr. Strot hired when he was out of town.
Commissioner Dallman questioned whether 25 percent is a reasonable amount to expect to pay
for the help that is required to maintain the concession trailer. Mr. Strot stated he would propose
25 percent again next year.
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Commissioner Dallman noted the Park Foundation had discussed asking City staff to assume the
responsibility for providing the accounting services which are currently being provided by MCES.
Commissioner Bensman commended Mr. Strot on his work with this project. She felt the
concession trailer could make more money in the future. Mr. Strot felt there was a lack of
knowledge relative to the existence of the trailer. Chair Colopoulos suggested a more formal
announcement next year to assure awareness of the trailer.
Commissioner Puzak inquired if the sales double in the next season, could the volunteer help be
sustained at that production level. Mr. Strot explained he did not experience any problem in
securing volunteer help.
Commissioner Puzak asked Mr. Strot to explain the benefit of utilizing MCES services. Mr. Strot
explained utilizing MCES enabled him to obtain vending services. MCES was also responsible
for the administrative portion of the venture.
Administrator Hurm asked if the Commission would be interested in offering a fixed rate to
MCES for their assistance in the coming year. Commissioner Dallman felt this would be prudent.
This matter will be further considered on the October or November agenda. Commissioner Puzak
thanked Mr. Strot for his participation. Mr. Strot stated he appreciated the opportunity to be
involved.
4. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
Carmel Rehnelt, Virginia Highlands, commented on a neighborhood meeting with Mayor
Dahlberg, Councilmember Garfunkel and Planning Commissioner Lizee. She asked whether a
trail has been planned for her neighborhood which would allow children to walk to Freeman and
Cathcart Parks.
Commissioner Puzak explained a decision needs to be made and he stated that although the
Commission feels this has been done in an open way in the past, the trail plan will once again be
addressed in as open and informative manner as possible.
It has been collectively agreed that all personal opinions will be set aside and a commitment has
been made to give consideration to the input of the residents. Commissioner Bensman felt the
City Council must be integrated into the planning process.
Commissioner Arnst suggested moving Agenda Item No. 7 to consideration as Agenda Item No.
5.
5. CONSIDERATION OF A PROPOSED SCOPE OF SERVICES AGREEMENT
WITH MARK KOEGLER FOR PARK & TRAIL PLANNING SERVICES
The Commission reviewed the proposal submitted by Mr. Koegler relative to park and trail
planning services.
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SEPTEMBER 9, 1997 - PAGE 3
Commissioner Arnst inquired relative to the time line which is being considered. Hurm stated this
would be dependent on how fast the Commission wants to work on this project. The expense for
this project is scheduled to come out of the trail fund.
Commissioner Puzak felt if a survey is needed, this item could take in excess of 90 days to
complete. Chair Colopoulos felt the existing survey data needs to be reviewed and a
determination made as to the credibility and quality of the information and then use that
information when making a decision relative to any future survey. Commissioner Puzak felt
visual aides need to be utilized prior to conducting a survey to assure the residents know what the
Commission is requesting.
Commissioner Bensman stated she is not in favor of using a survey as a community referendum
and felt possibly the prior survey was used in that manner.
Commissioner Dallman felt that everything outlined in the plan needs to be done and felt it
appropriate that the fee for the trail plan update not exceed $3,500 exclusive of computer photo
images.
Dallman moved, Packard seconded recommending the scope of services, fee schedule and
the trail plan of Hoisington Koegler Group, Inc., relative to consulting with the City
regarding the entire park system. Motion passed 6/0.
Dallman moved, Arnst seconded accepting the letter from Mark Koegler relative to a trail
plan agreement to be completed within 120 days at a cost not to exceed $3,500. Motion
passed 6/0.
Commissioner Arnst and Chair Colopoulos requested Mr. Koegler attend the October meeting of
the Park Commission.
(Council Liaison McCarty arrived at 8:45 p.m. and Commissioner Bensman left the meeting at
8:46 p.m.)
6. REPORTS
A. Status of 1998 Park Budget Recommendation
Hurm reported the Council has reviewed the 1998 Park Budget and no changes were made. The
Council reviewed the Capital Improvement Program and there is a further work session regarding
this matter scheduled for Monday, September 15, 1997, at 7:30 p.m.
B. Status of "To Do" List
Chair Colopoulos inquired as to the status of the picnic shelter. Hurm explained it is on order and
the watermains are in. Hurm reviewed the remainder of the "To Do" list.
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SEPTEMBER 9, 1997 - PAGE 4
C. Status of Trail Rights Along the Lundgren Bros. Development, West of
Minnewashta School
Commissioner Dallman felt this matter should be considered as a part of the trail planning services
which have just been commissioned and this was also the consensus of the Commission.
7. PARK FOUNDATION REPORT
Commissioner Dallman reported on the August 4, 1997, meeting of the Shorewood Park
Foundation Meeting (as detailed in the minutes of that meeting).
Chair Colopoulos commented the proposed concession building has value beyond that of
generating revenue which makes it a value to the park system.
Hurm suggested the commissioners view the building in Chaska and possibly obtain a copy of the
building plans. Commissioner Arnst felt the commissioners should view the self composting
facility at the Arboretum.
8. RECONSIDERATION OF SEPARATION OF OFF - STREET TRAIL FROM
COVINGTON ROAD
Commissioner Arnst asked if there have been any problems reported relative to the trail. Hurm
noted there had not. Commissioner Puzak stated this is a safety issue rather than an aesthetic
concern, however, there have been no reported safety encroachments. Commissioner Arnst
suggested Engineer Brown monitor the area and keep the Commission informed of any problems
which arise.
Chair Colopoulos stated the subject of trails and off street safety needs to be encompassed in the
upcoming study. He suggested there are many similar situations throughout the city and he would
not want the residents to think the Commission is handling this portion of the trail separate and
apart from every other trail related safety issue in the City.
Commissioner Puzak suggested working with Mr. Koegler to develop standards. He felt the
neighborhood should be informed the Park Commission is working with the trail planner and this
section of trail will be reviewed and considered.
9. DISCUSSION OF LIQUOR USE AT FREEMAN PARK
Commissioner Puzak stated there is a process in place in which a form and a fee would permit use
of the shelter. At this time, liquor is not allowed in the park. He asked whether it would be
desirable to allow it to be brought in under certain circumstances where a permit and a fee are
obtained.
Commissioner Dallman felt it would be appropriate to allow this type of use for certain events
such as tournaments, family reunions and other community type events. Commissioner Arnst
stated she would like a legal opinion relative to liability.
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SEPTEMBER 9, 1997 - PAGE 5
Hurm will investigate this matter, however, he did not feel there would be additional cost to the
City for insurance. Commissioner Puzak did not feel there to be enough benefit to warrant
exposing children to drinking.
Dallman moved, Puzak seconded recommending to City Council that the ordinance be
changed to allow malt alcohol use in the park under permitted conditions to be determined
by staff.
Commissioner Puzak felt if the ordinance were to be amended, the permit should require a
specific period of time for the event. He would like additional language in which any loud,
obnoxious or drunken behavior would be a violation of the permit. In addition, Commissioner
Puzak suggested if the party results in a violation of the permit, there would be a period of time in
which the person who pulled the permit would not be allowed to apply for another.
Hurm suggested possibly a permit could be obtained only for reserved functions and would not
apply to regularly scheduled sports games. Commissioner Arnst expressed concern relative to
enforcement.
Motion failed 1/4. (Chair Colopoulos, Commissioners Puzak, Arnst and Packard were the
dissenting votes.)
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SEPTEMBER 9, 1997 - PAGE 6
Commissioner Puzak stated he would consider this if the permit were very restrictive.
Commissioner Arnst expressed concern relative to allowing liquor at sporting events and
Commissioner Puzak noted his agreement. Commissioner Puzak stated he would be in favor of
liquor use for occasions such as family reunions.
Council Liaison McCarty suggested reviewing the ordinances which are utilized by other
municipalities. Chair Colopoulos was not in favor of introducing alcohol into the park
environment given the presence of children and felt there would need to be very tight restrictions
in place.
Commissioner Dallman felt if the ordinance were to be overly restrictive, it would become
unenforceable and it would be better not to allow liquor use in the parks at all.
10. DISCUSSION OF CHANGING FREEMAN PARK SIGN ( "CITY PARK" TO
"FREEMAN PARK ")
Hurm felt consideration of this item should be deferred until such time as the proposed senior
housing development has been addressed since that could affect this area.
Commissioner Dallman commented a resident has requested the park sign be turned perpendicular
to Eureka Road given the number of cars which turn around in her driveway. Hurm stated this
will be reviewed. (Commissioner Wilson arrived at 9:50 p.m.)
The issue of air horns was raised relative to the weekend soccer tournaments. Hurm suggested
this issue be addressed within the tournament policy.
11. CONSIDERATION OF A MOTION RECOMMENDING A PARK COMMISSION
MEMBER TO THE PARK FOUNDATION
Commissioner Packard volunteered to serve as the Park Commission Member to the Park
Foundation.
Dallman moved, Arnst seconded recommending to City Council the appointment of
Commissioner Packard to the Park Foundation. Motion passed 6/0.
12. REVIEW OF DEEPHAVEN PARK BOOKLET
Commissioner Puzak felt in considering a community event or determining a theme, this booklet
would be useful, however, he did not feel it would be beneficial to develop a booklet such as
Deephaven's until such time as the Shorewood trail plan has been completed. Chair Colopoulos
noted his agreement.
13. OLD BUSINESS
Freeman Park Soccer Fields
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SEPTEMBER 9, 1997 - PAGE 7
Commissioner Wilson raised the issue of the Freeman Park soccer fields and noted nothing has
begun relative to redressing the field.
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SEPTEMBER 9, 1997 - PAGE 8
Hurm explained Engineer Brown and representatives from the soccer association have decided
this matter will be addressed next year and a portion of the field will be taken out of play.
Commissioner Wilson noted his understanding one -third of the playing area would be taken out of
play for a one year period of time.
Hurm noted his understanding the Commission had directed Brown to meet with representatives
of the soccer association to determine how this matter will be addressed. Commissioner Puzak
stated if the Commission did not clearly communicate its direction to staff and that staff person
did what he felt he should do, then the Commission should give their full support. Chair
Colopoulos stated he has no problem with the decision which was made if it was made by
Engineer Brown.
Commissioner Wilson expressed concern the field has been extremely overused and he was upset
with the lack of communication he felt there to be between the Commission and staff relative to
this issue. He stated this particular area needs to be taken out of play for the next year.
Hurm suggested Commissioner Wilson accompany staff to the site and make recommendations
relative to the field. Commissioner Puzak felt there is a need to communicate to staff and then
support staff in their decisions.
Commissioner Arnst suggested there may be time for some sort of damage control. She noted her
understanding a portion of the field would be taken out of plan. She suggested the Commission
apologize to Engineer Brown for the miscommunication and inconvenience.
Commissioner Wilson suggested the field be taken out of play and seeded within the next few
days.
Hurm urged the commissioners to call staff prior to the commission meeting to obtain answers to
any questions they may have.
14. NEW BUSINESS
Council Liaison McCarty reported the LRT trail permit for winter use was approved and the issue
of a speed limit for motorized vehicles such as snowmobiles was tabled. The Council will meet in
a work session to determine a realistic speed limit.
15. ADJOURNMENT
Arnst moved, Dallman seconded adjourning the meeting at 10:26 p.m. Motion passed 7/0.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
Cheryl Wallat
Recording Secretary
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial
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