101497 PK MINCITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PARK COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY, OCTOBER 14, 1997 7:30 P.M.
MINUTES
1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
Vice Chair Puzak called the meeting to order at 7:32 p.m.
A. ROLL CALL
Present: Vice Chair Puzak, Commissioners Dallman, Arnst, Wilson and Packard; Council
Liaison McCarty; Administrator Jim Hurm
Absent: Chair Colopoulos, Commissioner Bensman.
B. REVIEW AGENDA
Vice Chair Puzak read the Agenda for October 14, 1997. The agenda was accepted as presented.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Park Commission Meeting Minutes of September 9, 1997
Arnst moved, Packard seconded, to approve the minutes as amended on Page 3, Item 7,
Paragraph 3, Sentence 2, amend to read, "the self composting facility at the Arboretum."
Motion passed 510.
3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR - None
4. REPORTS:
Status of Items Listed on "To Do" List
Administrator Hurm reviewed the items remaining on the "To Do" list. He noted the materials for
the picnic shelter have arrived and will be put up this week.
Commissioner Arnst inquired relative to the status of the notices which were to be sent out to the
property owners relative to the Silverwood Park area. Hurm noted the notices have been sent.
5. PRESENTATION BY MATT PIKE ON SUGGESTION FOR SKATING PARK -
This matter was tabled to the November meeting of the Park Commission.
6. DISCUSSION WITH MARK KOEGLER REGARDING TRAIL PLAN
PARK COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
OCTOBER 14, 1997 - PAGE 2
Mr. Koegler provided an overview of the Trail Plan Update and each of the three approaches
which were submitted to the Commission for their review and attached to and made a part of
these minutes for reference.
PARK COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
OCTOBER 14, 1997 - PAGE 3
Vice Chair Puzak noted Commissioner Arnst had been a member of the subcommittee and asked
her to explain her perception of the needs assessment step and how the needs assessment differs
from Approach No. 3. Commissioner Arnst felt Approach No. 3 to be more consistent with what
was discussed, but not necessarily what is reflected in the meeting notes. Commissioner Arnst felt
Approach No. 3 to be the most realistic approach and she also felt it would probably be the most
acceptable to the Council.
Commissioner Arnst expressed concern relative to cost and Mr. Koegler's availability to assist the
Commission through each of the steps.
Vice Chair Puzak related his understanding that Approach No. 2 is an interactive way of moving
forward with a trail and Approach No. 3 is an interactive way of developing parks and trails.
Commissioners Arnst and Packard noted their agreement.
Vice Chair Puzak summarized in the first approach a plan would be developed and feedback
obtained. The second approach is to go to the community with open questions, open minds and
open forums to discuss a more limited subject of trails. The third approach would be to go to the
community and ask what they would like the Park Commission to do.
Mr. Koegler clarified that Approach No. 3 is not necessarily wide open. A small group and large
group format, posing very specific questions would be conducted. Hurm asked if these groups
would be by invitation only or if they would be open to anyone interested in parks and recreation.
Mr. Koegler stated it would be open to everyone, however, those with a definite position on
certain recreation issues in the community would be specifically targeted.
Vice Chair Puzak noted the majority of the parks are essentially complete. An open approach is
more appropriate for Freeman Park given the fact there is significant open space remaining. He
raised concern with telling the public the City is ready to redesign the parks and trails.
Commissioner Packard stated she is in favor of Approach No. 3 although it looks too big. She
asked if the original dollars have been expended. Mr. Koegler felt the cost would be close,
however, changes can be made to meet budget constraints.
Commissioner Packard felt Approach No. 3 goes beyond Freeman Park given the issues of
resurfacing tennis courts, their usage, and the issue of alcohol in the parks. She felt the focus
should be the trail system.
Rob Schroeder, Shady Island, stated he is attracted to the idea of learning about trails given his
remote location on Shady Island. He felt it would be unlikely the Commission could come to a
resolution on a given issue if the meeting is not kept focused on trails.
Commissioner Wilson inquired how much trail area could be constructed for the funds available.
Hurm was unsure, stating it would depend upon which trails are considered. Commissioner
Wilson asked if positive results come out of the survey, will something be done about it. He felt
the work should be done as inexpensively as possible to get as much for as little as possible to see
PARK COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
OCTOBER 14, 1997 - PAGE 4
if the City is ready to do something. Mr. Koegler noted bids for trail projects range from $13 to
$15 per lineal foot without any extraordinary right -of -way acquisitions. This is the construction
cost for a bituminous trail.
Pat Delaney, Shady Island, asked if there is any process to establish a priority list of trails to be
completed. Hurm explained there is a 5 -year Capital Improvement Program and the intent was to
schedule out trails, however, very little has been done. Generally this type of project is tied in
with street work which is being completed.
Commissioner Dallman felt Approach No. 2 to be the discussion of a trail plan which he felt the
Commission to be looking for. He stated the trail is a separate issue and felt the Commission
wants to move forward with a trail. With respect to Approach No. 3, Commissioner Dallman felt
if too many different issues are discussed, a decision will not be reached. He stated he would like
to see a trail plan developed by May. At the same time, Commissioner Dallman felt the
Commission should address the park system from a neighborhood point of view, although he
pointed out the park plan and the trail plan are two separate issues. Commissioner Dallman
commented if there is sufficient public input at the meeting suggested by Approach 3, a decision
could be made whether a survey is necessary.
Dennis O'Hagen, Shady Island, felt the trail on Shady Island to be more limited in scope given the
fact it is probably not more than one mile long with another half mile which is located in
Minnetrista. Mr. O'Hagen asked whether Shorewood could join with other municipalities in
addressing the trails. Hurm noted the City can work with other communities and there can be
advantages to that such as funding or grants which could possibly be obtained. He stated there
may not be unanimity on the island relative to expanding the trail.
Mr. Koegler addressed the issue of the survey and asked if this would be a tool the decision
makers need to make a final decision. He suggested broadening the scope to more than trails
which would allow for a more balanced focus group rather than consisting of members whose sole
focus is trails.
Mr. Delaney suggested the Commission consider using the Shady Island trail as a pilot program
with which to test the process which is selected.
Commissioner Arnst noted the subcommittee recognized that not all areas of the city would have
a blacktop trail. Some trails would be wood chip . Trail surfaces and widths would be varied.
Vice -Chair Puzak asked Council Liaison McCarty what would be the most favor approach
relative to the Council. Council Liaison McCarty felt it would be important to have neutrals in
the focus group. She also felt the current Council would want as much information as possible.
Council Liaison noted the Council is interested in considering issues of visioning the parks and
purchasing green space.
PARK COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
OCTOBER 14, 1997 - PAGE 5
Council Liaison McCarty suggested broadening the process and bringing in other issues with
emphasis on the trail plan. Hurm suggested utilizing as -built drawings of the parks and use those
to bring in interests other than the trail.
Arnst moved, Dallman seconded approving Approach No. 3 keeping the focus primarily on
the trail system, allowing room for input on the improvements to the parks or completion of
Freeman Park.
Commissioner Packard asked at what point the time table and budget would be considered. Vice
Chair Puzak noted the time table to be March. In addition, the City has contracted with Mr.
Koegler. Mr. Koegler will come back to the Commission with a detailed plan which will also
include the costs associated with the plan. If the cost is not within the budget, the plan can be
refined and brought back before the Commission for further consideration.
Vice Chair Puzak stated it would be difficult to act on the motion not knowing whether it falls
within the budget.
Hurm felt a plan should be developed and brought back. If it exceeds the budget, the plan can be
reworked. He pointed out $6,000 has been budgeted for this year as well as next year.
Commissioner Arnst commented that in addition to the $100,000 currently in the trail fund, there
may be MSA funds or other sources such as ISTEA funds
Commissioner Wilson asked whether the approaches are developed based on Mr. Koegler's
experience in working with other cities or whether there is a specific approach which is utilized.
Mr. Koegler explained that the approaches as generated, while general, have been based
specifically on conditions in Shorewood and to some extent are drawn from his experiences in
other cities. The approaches presented are, however, unique to the Shorewood.
Motion passed 510.
Vice Chair Puzak thanked the citizens who attended and added their input. He also asked that
Mr. Koegler keep the costs as close to what has been discussed as possible.
Mr. Koegler stated he will present a detailed plan to the Commission at the November 11, 1997,
meeting.
Vice Chair Puzak recessed the meeting at 8:40 p.m. and reconvened at 8:44 p.m.
7. CONSIDERATION OF A REQUEST TO PROVIDE LAKE VIRGINIA AREA
RESIDENTS ACCESS TO THE LRT TRAIL
Vice Chair Puzak felt this issue should be included in the trail plan. The Commissioners noted
their agreement.
8. PARK FOUNDATION REPORT OF OCTOBER 6, 1997 MEETING
PARK COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
OCTOBER 14, 1997 - PAGE 6
Commissioner Dallman reported on the October 6, 1997, meeting of the Park Foundation (as
detailed in the minutes of that meeting).
Commissioner Dallman noted there were discussions and a motion relative to the Foundation
coming up with $10,000, and then looking into the building of the concession building. There is a
goal of May, 1999 in which to have the building completed.
Hurm explained there will be efforts made to schedule a tour of Carver and Chaska to view
concession buildings which have been built in those areas. It is anticipated this tour would take
place one weekday afternoon.
Vice Chair Puzak felt the Commission should be included in the tour along with the Park
Foundation. He suggested the Commission could pass a motion supporting the Foundation's
action.
Dallman moved, Packard seconded that the Park Commission support the Park
Foundation motion if the Foundation comes up with $10,000, the Park Commission will
then make a recommendation to the City Council to proceed with construction of the
concession building.
Commissioner Packard asked whether a Park Foundation member can vote on a motion
concerning the Park Foundation. Vice Chair Puzak stated it is not a conflict of interest because
the Park Foundation is a partnership with the Park Commission. Two commissioners are required
to be on the Park Foundation. In addition, a conflict of interested is defined as having a financial
stake in the outcome.
Motion passed 510.
Commissioner Arnst offered to go on the tour and bring photos back to the Commission for their
review.
9. CONSIDERATION OF FUTURE PLAN FOR CONCESSION TRAILER IN
FREEMAN PARK
This matter was considered and acted upon at a previous meeting.
10. CONSIDERATION OF LEGAL OPINION REGARDING ALCOHOL IN
FREEMAN PARK
Administrator Hurm explained the League of Minnesota Cities Insurance Trust stated there is no
additional liability when allowing the use of alcohol in the park, however, there would be
additional exposure to the City. If a lawsuit should arise, it would affect the City's insurance rate.
PARK COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
OCTOBER 14, 1997 - PAGE 7
Commissioner Arnst pointed out this issue was voted down at the September meeting. She felt
this information should be kept on file.
11. REPORT ON ATTORNEY'S OPINION REGARDING LAND SWAP - FREEMAN
PARK
Vice Chair Puzak commented this is a moot point given the fact the Council has denied the
request of the developer for senior housing, however this is important information for the future.
12. OLD BUSINESS
Commissioner Packard asked about the status of the mutt mitt dispenser. Hurm noted Public
Works is opposed to them given the vandalism which has occurred. Commissioner Wilson
suggested selling or giving a supply of the mitts upon the payment of dog license fees.
Commissioner Packard suggested moving the dispenser to the end of one of the trails where there
is a light. Council Liaison McCarty suggested the location of Eureka and Smithtown where there
is both traffic and light.
Commissioner Arnst suggested the Deephaven Park Booklet be put on the June agenda.
Commissioner Arnst inquired whether the situation with the soccer fields has been addressed.
Commissioner Wilson stated the issue has been resolved. He noted a larger problem is being
corrected so the work can be done properly.
Hurm noted a letter has been received from the City of Excelsior inviting the Commission to a
meeting on October 22, 1997 to discuss issues of mutual interest with respect to the children in
the two cities. Commissioners Packard and Arnst will attend the meeting. Commissioners Puzak
and Wilson will attempt to attend. The Commissioners were in agreement they are interested in
working with Excelsior on this problem.
13. NEW BUSINESS
PARK COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
OCTOBER 14, 1997 - PAGE 8
14. ADJOURNMENT
Arnst moved, Packard seconded adjourning the meeting at 9:31 p.m. Motion passed 510.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Cheryl Wallat
Recording Secretary
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.