111197 PK MINCITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PARK COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 11, 1997 7:30 P.M.
MINUTES
1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
Chair Colopoulos called the meeting to order at 7:31 p.m.
A. ROLL CALL
Present: Chair Colopoulos; Commissioners Puzak, Dallman, Arnst, Wilson (arrived at 7:37
p.m.), Packard and Bensman; Council Liaison McCarty; Administrator Jim Hurm
B. REVIEW AGENDA
Chair Colopoulos read the Agenda for November 11, 1997. The agenda was accepted as
presented. Hurm suggested adding an agenda item to discuss the use of Freeman Park by the
Police Department for snowmobile training. The matter was raised by Councilmember Stover as
a matter from the floor and was discussed at that time.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Park Commission Meeting Minutes of October 14, 1997
Puzak moved, Arnst seconded, to approve the minutes as amended on Page 2, Paragraph 9,
Sentence 2, change to read, "focused on trails." Page 3, Paragraph 5, Sentence 2, change
to read, "Trail surfaces and widths would be varied." Page 4, Paragraph 1, change to
read, "MSA funds or other sources such as ISTEA funds." Motion passed 4/0. (Chair
Colopoulos and Commissioner Bensman abstained.)
3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
Councilmember Stover noted the Council passed a resolution allowing the police department use
of Freeman Park for snowmobile training. She requested the Park Commission's input on this
issue. Councilmember Stover noted Engineer Brown has offered that Public Works will clear the
parking lot of any snow or tracks after the training.
Administrator Hurm explained this would involve the use of one snowmobile in the parking lot
area of Freeman Park. He noted the ordinance allows for the operation of snowmobiles for
supervised training.
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
NOVEMBER 11, 1997 - PAGE 2
Commissioner Arnst inquired where Hennepin County provides their training. Hurm noted it is
generally in January out in one of the bays. She expressed concern this will give the impression
that snowmobiles are allowed in the park.
Commissioner Puzak inquired whether this training will demonstrate the participant's proficiency
or whether they will have to demonstrate proficiency in January.
Commissioner Bensman questioned the benefit of an early training session when the participants
cannot be certified until January.
Hurm explained although there are two and a half days of training, the actual outdoor training will
last approximately one hour.
Commissioner Wilson felt this to be a good opportunity for youth to be trained on the safe use of
snowmobiles. Commissioner Dallman was in favor of the request. Commissioner Puzak felt the
greater value to be that the Park Commission support safety and encourage snowmobile training.
Hurm will contact the police department to ascertain why the training is scheduled prior to
January.
Commissioner Arnst asked that these matters be brought before the Commission in a timely
matter, noting the Council has already made a decision on this matter.
Councilmember Stover noted the Council does have the opportunity to reconsider this issue and
make a different decision.
4. REPORTS
Status of Items Listed on "To Do" List
Administrator Hurm reviewed the items remaining on the "To Do" list. He noted the survey
markings are underway for Silverwood Park. With respect to Freeman Park, it is anticipated the
picnic shelter will be in place by the end of the week.
Report on Tour of Concession Buildings in Other Cities
Commissioner Arnst will be attending a tour of concession buildings in other surrounding cities
and will report back to the Commission.
Report on October 22 Meeting with Neighboring Cities on Children's Issues
Commissioner Puzak reported the communities of Greenwood, Excelsior, Deephaven,
Shorewood and Tonka Bay met on October 22, 1997, to discuss children's issues within the
communities. It was felt the communities could work together to taking some meaningful steps in
this regard.
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
NOVEMBER 11, 1997 - PAGE 3
Freeman Park was discussed as a site in which to provide an area for children as well as Studor
Park in Excelsior which is relatively undeveloped. There were discussions Centering around
consideration of Studor Park, noting this park could be developed with children in mind. A
follow up meeting has been scheduled for November 19, 1997, to further address this issue. The
issue will be further discussed and possible solutions suggested.
Commissioner Arnst suggested this matter be added to the next agenda for a report by one of the
commissioners in attendance.
5. PRESENTATION BY MATT PIKE ON SUGGESTION FOR SKATING PARK
Matt Pike was in attendance and distributed information to the Commission relative to a skate
type ramp. He asked the Commission to consider the establishment of a skate park in
Shorewood.
Mr. Pike noted the only place available for skating to be in the street and many business owners
have posted the street area with no skating signs.
Mr. Pike noted there is a skate park in Minneapolis, however, this is not accessible to youth in
Shorewood. He noted the cost of a skate park to be significant, however, he suggested several
fund raising options. Mr. Pike suggested there may be City owned land in which a park could be
established.
Commissioner Arnst inquired how many people would utilize such a facility. Mr. Pike noted there
are a significant amount of BMXers, skate boarders as well as roller bladers.
Chair Colopoulos expressed an interest in viewing the facility in Minneapolis. He would like
further information relative to the size of the facility as well as the type of surface it would
require. Mr. Pike estimated a park to be 300 feet wide by 500 feet in length.
Commissioner Wilson noted he has visited the Minneapolis facility and estimated it to be
approximately 100 feet by 75 feet.
Commissioner Arnst asked that Mr. Pike be added to the agenda of one of the future meetings
with the five communities who are discussing children's issues.
The Commission was in support of Mr. Pike's suggestion and commended him on the excellent
presentation he provided.
Council Liaison McCarty noted there are tennis courts which have been contemplated for
Freeman Park with funds allotted for this project. She felt possibly the skate park should be
discussed as an alternative.
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
NOVEMBER 11, 1997 - PAGE 4
Commissioner Wilson felt there could be user fees for utilizing the skate park and felt many
parents would be in favor of this type of facility.
Chair Colopoulos was in favor of reviewing this matter further and progressing to a planning
stage with a feasibility study.
6. DISCUSSION OF DETAILED TRAIL PLAN WITH MARK KOEGLER
Mr. Koegler presented the Commission with an approach to assist in resolving the trail issue in
Shorewood (attached to and made a part of these minutes).
Commissioner Puzak noted the Commission is proceeding slowly and cautiously in this matter.
He expressed concern the Commission will be spending excessive funds in deciding whether
action should be taken.
Commissioner Bensman felt there should be a referendum on this issue rather than pursuing more
surveys and information gathering activities.
Commissioner Wilson felt the Commission should make a decision and move forward.
Chair Colopoulos felt the plan lacks specificity and has not been properly communicated. He
stated he is hesitant to make a decision which affects property owner's right -of -way and deeded
access. Chair Colopoulos felt there needs to be a determination made whether this is a sidewalk
plan or a recreational trail plan. Commissioner Wilson felt this plan has been clearly defined as a
recreational trail plan.
Commissioner Arnst felt the Commission should move forward and meet with the Council.
Commissioner Puzak noted the first step is to meet with the Council for their input on this plan,
noting the Commission cannot solve this issue by itself.
Commissioner Puzak asked that Councilmembers Stover and McCarty speak with the Council and
ask that they lend their support to the Park Commission.
Commissioner Bensman noted the reference to a focus group in the proposed plan and
commented the plan actually describes a task force rather than a focus group. She commented the
focus group will leave the Commission with nothing more than a collection of various people's
opinions.
Commissioner Arnst inquired whether there would be a facilitator at the workshop which is
anticipated with the Council. Mr. Koegler stated he would be in attendance to facilitate the
meeting. He did not feel the Commission should pursue this plan if there is not Council support.
Commissioner Puzak suggested the Commission proceed with the proposal noting if this plan is
ultimately abandoned, the remaining funds could be applied to the Magic Square and /or the skate
park.
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
NOVEMBER 11, 1997 - PAGE 5
Hurm suggested a joint work session with the Council on December 9, 1997, with an alternate
date of December 2, 1997. Mr. Koegler requested that all Commissioners and Councilmembers
be in attendance at the work session.
7. DISCUSSION WITH RESIDENT ON USE OF MANOR PARK WARMING
HOUSE DURING NON - REGULAR HOURS
Allison Hawkenson, 20815 Idlewild Path, was in attendance and requested access and use of the
Manor Park warming house during non - regular hours. She noted she home schools her children
and would request this access once per week for a two hour period of time.
Commissioner Puzak inquired relative to the additional liability this would place upon the City as
well as any precedent this would create. Hurm stated this would not affect the liability insurance.
Puzak moved, Bensman seconded approving that Allison Hawkenson, 20815 Idlewild Path,
be issued a key to the warming house to be used for the skating season. Motion passed 7/0.
8. DISCUSSION OF CENTER/PARK ISSUES WITH BOB GAGNE, CHAIR,
FRIENDS OF THE SOUTHSHORE SENIOR/COMMUNITY CENTER
Bob Gagne was in attendance and thanked the Commission for permitting the construction of the
Southshore Senior /Community Center building on the park property.
Mr. Gagne addressed the issue of parking. He noted it is anticipated the existing well building
will be changed in the near future and this may result in additional spaces which could be acquired
between the well building and the next hill which would provide a number of additional parking
spaces.
Mr. Gagne also reported there have been 25 requests for the rental of the facility. He noted rental
fees and fundraising have been utilized to pay for the facility. Mr. Gagne noted the Center is
dependent upon the rental of the facility to meet the operating expenses.
Mr. Gagne explained there have been rental inquiries in which potential renters have wanted to be
allowed to have alcohol on the site. He noted this is currently not permitted, however, he
requested wine and beer be allowed to be served on the premises. Mr. Gagne distributed a list a
potential requirements which were developed by the Friends of the Southshore Senior /Community
Center.
It was noted there is a provision in the Conditional Use Permit which prohibits the use of alcohol
on this site. In addition, there is a provision that alcohol is not permitted in any park.
Hurm noted in order to change the Conditional Use Permit, there would be a public hearing
required. He felt the Council would be interested in the Commission's opinion on this matter.
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
NOVEMBER 11, 1997 - PAGE 6
Commissioner Arnst felt the facility should be allowed the use of alcohol on the site since the
Center is dependent on the rental of the facility to sustain its operating expenses. Commissioner
Puzak noted his agreement.
Chair Colopoulos suggested the Center may want to consider a liquor license as opposed to
limiting the request to beer and wine. Commissioner Puzak felt if a liquor license is sought, there
should be some sort of security person on the premises.
Puzak moved, Arnst seconded recommending to City Council that the request for beer and
wine, or liquor, if so requested by the Friends group, be granted to the senior Center under
the guidelines similar to the ones presented by the Friends group. Motion passed 7/0. (The
guidelines provided by Mr. Gagne follow.)
The following information was provided to the Park Commission by Mr. Gagne.
Points to discuss at the Park Commission Meeting regarding the request to serve wine
and /or beer at the Southshore Center.
1. People from our community are requesting to use the facility for special parties
where they would like to serve wine. Example, the Townhouse Association who wanted
to have a Christmas dinner for the group did not rent because they could not serve wine
with the meal.
2. We would develop policies regarding the serving of wine and /or beer such as:
a. No kegs - beer must be served out of cans or bottles.
b. Wine and /or beer can only be served with food.
C. Beer and wine (including champagne) may be served at activities
and must include the serving of food. These beverages must be provided by the
organization, group or persons hosting the activity or event.
d. No compensation of any nature may be exchanged for beer or wine.
This includes donations, advance sale tickets and tips.
e. Beer and wine may only be served until 10:30 p.m. on week nights
and 12 midnight on Friday and Saturday evenings.
f. All parties consuming beer and wine in the Dining Room shall be
required to conform to all City and State liquor laws.
g. Beer and wine may only be consumed within the Community
Center.
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
NOVEMBER 11, 1997 - PAGE 7
h. In activities or functions where beer and /or wine is served, it may
be required that the organization or group hire a police officer for all or part of the
event.
Commissioner Wilson commented on the issue which was recently discussed relative to the use of
liquor in the parks and the picnic shelter area. He questioned why liquor would not be permitted
at a wedding which would be held at the picnic shelter in the park. Commissioner Puzak noted
that would be allowing liquor in the park and the Southshore Senior /Community Center is not
located on park property. In addition, the use of alcohol will not be permitted outside of the
building itself.
9. OLD BUSINESS
Commissioner Arnst noted there has not been a Park Commission representative present at the
Council meetings to report on the Park Commission meetings. She suggested everyone do their
part in this regard.
Commissioner Arnst noted the Park Commission minutes are made available to the Council and
Planning Commission prior to the Park Commission and she requested the Commission receive
them at the same time they are distributed to the other groups.
Commissioner Arnst requested that information relative to the trail issue be provided as soon as
possible so each commissioner has an opportunity to review the materials prior to the meeting.
10. NEW BUSINESS
11. ADJOURNMENT
Puzak moved, Bensman seconded adjourning the meeting at 9:40 p.m. Motion passed 7/0.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
Cheryl Wallat
Recording Secretary
TimeSaver Off Site Secretarial, Inc.
Creative Solutions for Land Planning and Design
J
Hoisington Koegler Group Inc.
November 3, 1997
Mr. James C. Hurm
City Administrator
City of Shorewood
5755 Country Club Road
Shorewood, Minnesota 55331 -8927
b�
Dear Jim:
HK
i
At the Park Commission meeting on October 14' we discussed several approaches to
help resolve the trail issue in Shorewood. After consideration of a number of
alternatives, the Park Commission suggested that we pursue an option that called for an
initial public forum followed by a series of focus groups to sort through the issues and
formulate recommendations.
The following approach is offered for further consideration:
Objective: To identify a consensus regarding implementation of a trail system in the City
of Shorewood.
Process: Hold a public meeting "event" focused on trails but including other related
recreational interests. Following the public meeting, structure a series of three focus
groups, each emphasizing a different aspect of the decision process.
Tasks:
1. Conduct an initial workshop meeting with the Park Commission (and City Council ?)
regarding the process.
2. Develop a communications plan, conduct publicity and mail invitations (HKGi and
City Staff).
3. Conduct a parks and trails community forum for approximately 100+ people
representing the public at -large and various recreational interests. The outcome of the
meeting will be the tabulation of a set of trail and park issues that are important to the
community.
4. Conduct an updated community survey providing information on trails and other
park and recreation needs. The survey should be a telephone survey with a
representative.sample size (approximately 400). The results of the survey would
123 North Third Street, Suite 100, Minneapolis, MN 55401 -1659
Ph (612) 338 -0800 Fx (612) 338 -6838
Mr. James C. Hurm
. November 3, 1997
Page 2
serve as another barometer of the community's attitude toward trails and other park
issues. This task is optional but recommended.
5. Summarize the results of the community forum and survey.
6. Appoint a balanced focus group of not more than 15 people to meet and explore the
trail issue in more detail based on the information received from the community
forum and the telephone survey.
7. Conduct Focus Group Meeting #1, the purpose of which is to define the issues and
problems.
8. Conduct Focus Group Meeting #2 to propose and examine alternatives to resolve the
issues.
9. Conduct Focus Group Meeting #3 to formulate recommendations to the Park
Commission and City Council.
10. Prepare a final report summarizing the results of the process.
• Cost
Based on the tasks outlined above, the cost associated with all of the work program tasks
with the exception of the survey identified in #4 is $4,500.00. Based on other projects
that we are completing at the present time that include similar surveys, the survey will
run an additional $5,000.00 to $6,000.00 depending on the number of questions involved.
The extensive meetings that are part of this process, the broad based community
involvement, and the detailed information that is gathered are labor intensive and
therefore, result in a more costly approach. If it becomes necessary to reduce the scope
of the effort, the following could be considered:
1. Elimination of the telephone survey resulting in savings of $5,000 to $6,000. The
results of the survey that was compiled in 1996 could be used as a source of
information.
2. Elimination of the focus group meetings resulting in savings of approximately
$1,600. This would place the emphasis on the community forum as sole source of
community input.
Mr. James C. Hurm
•
November 3, 1997
Page 3
Efforts to reduce the scope need to be balanced against the amount of process and work
that is ultimately necessary to provide the information required for the City Council to
make a decision.
Schedule
If the full process outlined herein is to be implemented, timing becomes an issue because
of the upcoming holiday season. Two approaches could be considered. First, the initial
workshop could be conducted in November allowing for the scheduling of the
community forum in early December. Focus groups could be scheduled for January with
results being available in early February. The second approach avoids December because
of potential conflicts and a corresponding reduction in public interest. This approach
calls for the initial workshop to occur in either November or December and the
community forum to take place in early January. Focus groups could be held in January
and February and results could be available in early March. In both scenarios, the
telephone survey could be conducted at an appropriate time in the process.
I would be pleased to further discuss this approach with you and the Park Commission at
your convenience.
• Sincerely,
R. Mark Koegler, RLA
Senior Vice President
RMK:dbm
•