041498 PK MIN
CITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PARK COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY, APRIL 14, 1998 7:30 P.M.
MINUTES
CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
1.
Chair Puzak called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
A. ROLL CALL
Present: Chair Colopoulos; Commissioners Puzak, Bensman, Dallman, Arnst, Themig
and Cochran; Administrator Jim Hurm and Public Works Director Larry Brown
Absent: Council Liaison McCarty
Also present: Matt Pike, Jake Sawinski, Buddy Kamrath, Excelsior Park and Rec
Commissioner, Kathy Livolsi-Schultz; Representing the Little League
Association, Gordy Lindstrom and Brian Techy
B. REVIEW AGENDA
It was agreed to move Item #5 to Matters From the Floor.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
2.
A. Joint meeting with City Council and Park Commission Meeting
Minutes of March 2, 1998
Corrections made noted as follows:
Page 3, item 2, paragraph 4 - Remove the word “which.”
Page 3, item 2, paragraph 4 - Add the word “from” after the word “Council.”
Page 4, paragraph 7 - Begin with “Carmel Rehwalt asked whether different terminology
should be used.”.
Colopoulos moved, Themig seconded, to accept the minutes as amended. The motion
passed 7/0.
B. Park Commission Meeting Minutes of March 10, 1998
Corrections were made as follows:
Page 4, item 10, paragraph 1 - Change the word “liter” to “litter.”
Page 4, Item 10, paragraph 2 - Add the word “new” before the word “location.”
Page 4, paragraph 4 - Replace the word “towers” with the words “appropriateness of the
towers in a park setting.”
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APRIL 14, 1998 - PAGE 2
Bensman moved, Arnst seconded to approve the minutes as amended. Motion passed 7/0.
MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
3.
It was agreed to move agenda item #5 to this point in the meeting. Shorewood resident Mr. Pike
addressed the Park Commission, asking for the City’s support in building a safe place for bikers,
skateboarders and inline skaters to practice their sport. He cited other sports activities, such as
tennis that are provided for by area parks and explained the need for a facility to accommodate
skaters and bikers. He would like to see a structure with an area of about 10,000 square feet that
would be appropriate for those from beginner to the more difficult levels of ability. He estimated
the cost to average around $50,000 and suggested possible revenue sources such as donations,
fund raisers, user fees and commercial sponsorships. Other area communities are in support of this
idea and Ms. Livolsi-Schultz agreed. Pike named Badger, Freeman, Manitou, Studer and other
area parks as possible locations and described potential times of operation and admission costs.
Pike recommended that such a facility would be staffed and would include a small building to
house a telephone, first aid supplies and possibly concessions. The preferred occupancy limit is up
to 100 people. There would be strict behavior expectations and required safety, protective gear
such as helmet, kneepads and wrist guards.
Chair Puzak asked Mr. Pike to report on developments since he first approached the Park
Commission with this idea. Mr. Pike has talked with friends at school and checked on the Internet
for information. He described the informational video which addresses costs, design and insurance
considerations.
Commissioner Themig asked where people currently go for this sport. Because of the need for a
hard surface, the only nearby options are parts of downtown Excelsior, the Commons Park and
residential areas. He said these all present problems for the skaters/bikers and others involved.
There are other skate/bike parks in Burnsville, Minneapolis and Chanhassen. Mr. Pike has not yet
addressed other Park Commissions or organizations such as Rotary or Lions Club with his idea.
Administrator Hurm asked if the facility can be used by bikers and skaters or skateboarders at the
same time. Mr. Pike replied this is not a problem if overcrowding is not allowed.
Commissioner Themig asked about admission fees. Pike gave the example of fees at Third Layer,
a facility in Minneapolis. The cost is $10 for skaters and boarders and $20 for BMX bikes
because of the extra wear on equipment. He pointed out that concrete ramps are more durable
than wood, but more likely to cause injury. Mr. Pike prefers a wood surface and described the
materials that work best. He also suggested the idea of seasonal passes along with daily fees.
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APRIL 14, 1998 - PAGE 3
Ms. Livolsi-Schultz reported that Excelsior had a town forum in February which resulted in
around 80 responses from the community in which a need for this type of recreational facility was
repeatedly expressed. These parks are found all around the country and are growing in numbers.
After seeing the response from parents and kids, Ms. Livolsi-Schultz feels that a skate/bike facility
would fill a great debit. Chair Puzak asked Ms. Livolsi-Schultz if there is an organized group of
adults to begin the process. She explained that there is a core group with plans to assemble in the
near future, but that nothing is officially formulated.
Chair Puzak summarized that it is back to the question of past months. There is support of the
idea, but not a focus to move from there. He asked for suggestions as to the next step and the role
of the Park Commission at this point. Discussion followed about the scope of such a project and
the business aspect which goes beyond the City’s realm of involvement. The suggestion was made
that because this could involve a large range of communities, perhaps it is appropriate to include
Community Services. Chair Puzak stated that the idea needs an organizational structure around it
from a chartered organization with legal and financial longevity. Mr. Sawinski suggested
contacting large corporations who sell skateboards and inline skates for sponsorship. Chair Puzak
commended Mr. Pike, Mr. Sawinski and Mr. Kamrath for the manner in which they have taken
action on their idea.
Ms. Livolsi-Schultz will approach Community Services with the idea. Administrator Hurm will
bring this information to the other City managers.
Commissioner Themig moved that the Park Commission, through Administrator Hurm,
initiate a resolution to City Council supporting further investigation of a skate park.
Administrator Hurm made a technical suggestion to move that the Park Commission would
prepare a resolution for the City Council to take initiative.
Commissioner Themig moved, Commissioner Bensman seconded, amending the motion to
prepare a resolution to Council that the Park Commission initiate a partnership with
surrounding communities to further investigate a skate park. The motion passed 7/0.
Chair Puzak clarified for the three boys that a process has begun, but will take time. They were
asked to present their information to Park Commissions for Tonka Bay and Excelsior. Ms.
Livolsi-Schultz offered to assist them.
REPORTS
4.
A. Engineer Brown Report on Legal/Liability of Street Crossings at LRT
Engineer Brown reviewed reasons for study of this topic and results of his inquiries. In calling the
County and other City offices, he was given several explanations for absences of signage at
crosswalk areas. Some of those are: not every state law is posted, signs may give pedestrians a
false sense of security, and typically pedestrians have had a pattern of yielding to traffic. At this
time Engineer Brown is not recommending signage for all crosswalks. Each location needs to be
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APRIL 14, 1998 - PAGE 4
looked at individually to make sure there are appropriate site distances, etc. There was discussion
about the presence of small stop signs at intersections for LRT trail users, which will remain in
place for the summer season. Engineer Brown added that the purpose of striping is to bring
attention to special situations and it is recommended that it not be overused. One of the troubling
spots being looked at for striping is at Eureka and Smithtown.
Commissioner Arnst recommended three crossings to be looked at closely: Wedgewood,
Strawberry and Cathcart. She asked if at least there could be some trimming of vegetation which
currently restricts visibility at these intersections. Engineer Brown noted that this could require
gaining easements or permission of the property owners. The point was made that the railroad bed
was pre-existing and the trail was therefore not designed with pedestrian or bike traffic to be
crossing streets as they are. This is a problem all along the LRT. It was suggested that letters
could be sent to adjacent homeowners to ask that they keep sitelines as clear as possible.
Commissioner Colopoulos asked if this is in the jurisdiction of the Park Commission or is it a
traffic safety matter? Engineer Brown will review and analyze each crossing, check again with the
League of Minnesota Cities and report back to the Commission after discussion with staff.
B. Arbor Day Plans
Administrator Hurm reported that the formula established by the Park Commission for declaring a
day of observance has been followed and Council has chosen to celebrate Arbor Day on Saturday,
April 25, 1998. A tree will be planted at Manor Park at a 9:00 a.m. ceremony. Engineer Brown
explained that resident Mary Babcock has offered to donate a large tree, but that it comes with
many conditions about the exact scheduling of care and feeding of the tree which the Public
Works crew may not be able to honor. Commissioners asked about the hardiness and origin of
tree being considered and whether there is some way to create a partnership with neighbors to
assist. Engineer Brown stated that in his opinion, it seemed there is quite a bit of attention needed
for this tree and he has a problem with such a dead set commitment to its survival. After further
discussion it was decided that Engineer Brown would revisit the idea with Ms. Babcock,
suggesting that the City would do its best to ensure the trees survival and replace the tree if it
dies.
SKATE PARK
5.(See Item #3, Matters from the Floor)
REVIEW OF A REVISED PARK CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM- CIP
6.
Administrator Hurm explained the differences from the previously presented CIP, saying that this
one is starting from scratch with new balances. The first item discussed was the work to be done
on the soccer fields at Freeman Park and the $56,000 allocated over the next three years.
Administrator Hurm explained that the donation from the soccer association is traditionally
$3,000 annually and the status of a possible grant for soccer improvements is still unknown.
Commissioner Dallman asked if the projected costs will be a final solution to the poor field
conditions. Engineer Brown said the renovation work covered by the $56,000 should resolve the
major problems and that fields will require only maintenance level of attention after that. He
added that the ongoing compacting that will always reoccur can be minimized by a lighter play
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
APRIL 14, 1998 - PAGE 5
schedule and not using fields during a rain. Mr. Lindstrom noted that the problem is mostly with
the initial construction and design. This would be resolved with reconstruction of fields, which
would include better drainage.
Commissioner Colopoulos pointed out that the project was being considered with the anticipation
of grant money in mind and now the possibility of increased fees will need to be addressed. Chair
Puzak noted that the money offered by the City was based on a match of grant funds and if the
grant money is reduced by half, then the City’s contribution should be cut by half. Administrator
Hurm said that some athletic clubs take care of the ongoing expense of field maintenance and
some do not. This is also true of the cost of original development of fields. The City built the
softball and soccer areas, but the Little League paid for their own fields and concession stand.
They, however do not pay a yearly contribution to the City. The soccer association did pay for a
portion of a playground structure and provided manpower to install it.
Commissioner Arnst asked if there was a formal agreement for users of the City parks and asked
how other cities address this issue. Commissioner Themig stated that there should be a consistent
policy. Commissioner Bensman explained that the topic of user fees has been discussed and
agreements been informal until now. Perhaps it is time for a policy to be developed. There were
questions about who is responsible for the handling of ongoing maintenance costs and paying for
potential damage to park property. Commissioner Arnst agreed that it makes good business sense
to have a policy in place for dealing with park costs.
Chair Puzak suggested the idea of charging a fee (perhaps $5 to $10) per registered participant to
be collected by each of the sports organizations to cover field and facility repair and maintenance.
Commissioner Themig was in favor of saying that the City would provide a certain level of service
and needs but beyond that point it would be the responsibility of the sports organization. There
was discussion about pros and cons to each approach and it was suggested that policy decisions
will be saved for another meeting. The handling of soccer field repair will be determined after the
outcome of grant money allocation is known. This may result in the soccer association being
asked to contribute more to the field reconstruction or to delay the project.
Two representatives of the Little League Association were present to ask if electricity could be
brought to the ball field for hooking up a pitching machine at both Freeman and Cathcart Parks.
Mr. Lindstrom described the process for safe installation and added that the $3,500 donation from
the Little League will cover the cost.
Puzak moved, Colopoulos seconded, to authorize the addition of electrical outlets and
conduit to support a pitching machine at Freeman Field #1 and at Cathcart. Motion passed
7/0.
Engineer Brown continued itemizing the CIP. Commissioner Dallman explained that the Park
Foundation has long discussed the construction of a park building at Freeman and the idea of
developing a plan to raise $60,000 was recently considered, with the thought that the City would
match that amount for a total building cost of $120,000. He asked if the Commission is still
behind the plan to build a structure in light of the difficulty of finding a concessionaire. Chair
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
APRIL 14, 1998 - PAGE 6
Puzak directed the topic back to the CIP and said that the line item of $60,000 does not indicate a
commitment to build the structure. Such a decision would need to be made at another time.
Engineer Brown finished the list of projects and allocations for Freeman Park. The overlay of
tennis courts at Badger and Cathcart would be done with the same process used at Manor Park.
He concluded by saying that the $31,000 designated for a warming house at Silverwood is a
rough estimate for 2002 and that the lighting project at Manor Park is a reduction from $8,000 to
$6,000.
As there were no further questions, Engineer Brown went on to explain the Funding Source
Summary, noting a correction for the heading of the second column to read “1999” rather than
the printed 1998. Also the $3,500 from Little League has now been earmarked for the electrical
work as described above. It was pointed out that by the year 2002, the fund balance would be
very lean ($496) if the soccer restoration project is handled as forecast. Chair Puzak stated that
this indicates a need for an increase in user-based funding as the community develops.
Administrator Hurm reminded the Commission that there is nothing in this plan to cover potential
plans for tennis courts at Freeman, or contribution toward expenses of a skateboard/bike park or
play equipment at Minnewashta Elementary. With questions remaining about the funds that may
or may not be provided by the soccer association to help with the repairs at Freeman, and the
future of policies regarding user fees, it is not yet possible to approve or adjust the budget as
presented. Nor is it yet possible to earmark money for any additional projects.
At this point, Engineer Brown would need to begin the process of obtaining survey and design
information so the work on the soccer fields can be done before it’s too late in the season. There
was discussion about how to work around an assumption of grant money or matching funds.
Administrator Hurm will meet with the soccer association representatives to address the money
issue and clarify the outcome of grant money.
B. Engineer Brown Report On Design And Cost Of Netting And Pole
Construction For Foul Ball Problem At Freeman Field #2
After considering the options and talking with fence companies, Engineer Brown recommended
the installation of power poles and netting. The vendors have listed several cities that have
successfully utilized this approach. NSP has offered to donate and install the four poles at no cost.
The netting is 1 1/4” x 1 1/4” square mesh and would be placed high enough to prevent vandalism
and low enough to address the problem. The estimated cost is about $2,500 (after the NSP
donation). Commissioner Colopoulos has checked with owners of adjacent properties and they
look forward to this plan.
Colopoulos moved, Themig seconded, to recommend to Council that they authorize the
City to spend $2500 to install poles and netting to solve the foul ball problem at Freeman
Field #2. Motioned passed 7/0.
There was a question from the floor about exploring the possibility of relocating the ball field and
whether this action would prevent that possibility. The response was that the foul ball problem
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
APRIL 14, 1998 - PAGE 7
needs immediate attention and the netting and poles could be removed and reinstalled if needed.
Chair Puzak verified that the outcome of a recent subcommittee meeting on possible field
reconfiguration would not disagree with the decision to go ahead with the pole and netting
installation. (There will be a report at the next Park Commission meeting about the results of that
committees discussion.) Brown will update the neighbors who are waiting to hear the results of
this decision.
A. Report On Available Resources To Help Minnewashta Elementary
School With Playground Equipment
Chair Puzak called for a recommendation on this item.
Bensman moved, Themig seconded, to table this item until the budget issue is straightened
out.
Chair Puzak directed Administrator Hurm to approach the soccer association to see about
financial assistance with field reconstruction and put this topic back on the agenda for the next
meeting.
Commissioner Arnst asked Administrator Hurm to give a status report to the people at
Minnewashta School who are waiting for a response to their request. He will let them know that
the Park Commission is still exploring the matter.
The motion passed 7/0.
Administrator Hurm asked if there were parts of the revised Park Capital Improvement Program
that could be followed up on before the next Park Commission meeting. Commissioner Dallman
asked if there could still be adjustments made to the budget on those items later on. Chair Puzak
asked Administrator Hurm to specify which projects he would like to accomplish before the next
meeting. Administrator Hurm replied the electricity to the park shelter ($1,500), the drinking
fountains and grills ($3,000), the landscaping ($4,000), grills and pads ($1,000), foul ball problem
#2 ($2,500), parking lot relocation ($5,000) and benches at Cathcart ($1,000). Chair Puzak
clarified that the big question that remains is the soccer field projects at $20,000, $18,000 and
$18,000, which Administrator Hurm will have further input on for the next meeting.
REVIEW PARK SHELTER POLICIES
7.
It was noted that this policy has been reviewed and is ready to adopt.
Themig moved, Arnst seconded, that the Park Commission adopt the proposed Park
Reservation Shelter Policy as is. The motion passed 7/0.
REVIEW THE PARKS DOG ORDINANCE
8.
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Chair Puzak started out by saying that the overwhelming opinion expressed through the Shoreline
voice mail was a positive, “Do it.” Commissioner Arnst asked how this ordinance would be
enforced. Commissioner Themig suggested that the requirement be stated that a person who has a
dog in their custody must be in possession of a device to handle dog feces. The Park Commission
would not be able to pass any ordinance, but could make a recommendation to Council. It was
noted that according to the municipal code, the Park Commission may only deal with what relates
to parks as they do not have an official role in the area of trails. Administrator Hurm made the
point that the Council would still be interested in the Commission’s recommendations regarding
trails.
Commissioner Arnst asked who would enforce the new ordinance being considered. This would
be the responsibility of the South Lake Minnetonka Public Safety Department The point was also
made that with a change in policy, some people may alter their actions. Commissioner Bensman
stated that education would need to be a part of this, such as signage and, communication through
the Citizen Informer. There was discussion about the value of “mutt mitts” and the responsibility
of the dog owners. Chair Puzak noted that an ordinance that does not exist cannot be enforced or
communicated and he recommended that the draft of an ordinance be passed on to Council for
consideration and further development.
Themig moved, Cochran seconded, that the Park Commission recommend to City Council
that they include in our current nuisance ordinance the following wording ”Animals in
Park and Recreation Areas: No person in a City park or recreation area shall: Subd 7.
Have custody or control of any pet in a park without possessing and using an appropriate
device for cleaning up pet feces and disposing of the feces in a sanitary manner.
It was again noted that this would need to be accompanied by an education plan. Chair Puzak
suggested that it would not be a problem to do this through the City newsletter, local newspaper
or letters to owners of licensed dogs. It may also include adding some signage in parks and on
trails.
Themig amended the motion to include the wording “plus public land plus an educational
and communication component if the ordinance is passed that would go along with that.
There was no further discussion.
Motion passed 7/0.
TRAIL PLAN UPDATE - REVIEW FINAL SURVEY DOCUMENT
9.
Chair Puzak pointed out that there has been consensus on the nature and purpose of this draft and
that the discussion at this point is to clarify the wording if needed and not to change the purpose
of the question. Administrator Hurm reported that the City Council has some recommendations
after their review at last night’s meeting. Their suggestions were in areas of questions 33 and 34.
Wording of the paragraph after #32. There was concern that the statements were unrealistic
scenarios, which is okay if the word “hypothetically” is inserted as a first word in the second
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
APRIL 14, 1998 - PAGE 9
sentence. The sentence would then say: “I would like to read you a list of six types of
recreational developments. Hypothetically, if each would cost approximately the same amount . .
.”
The second item is that there is frequent reference to the trail system and the Council suggested
that words trail or trail spur should also be used. Commissioner Bensman suggested that just the
word trail should be used throughout the survey. The other members of the Commission agreed.
Administrator Hurm noted another area to clarify. Question #53 implies a picture of an on-street
trail. The Council asked for wording that does not lead to that assumption. Commissioner
Bensman suggested using the words “if the trail were next to your property” rather than “if the
trail were running along your side of the street.” The Commission directed staff to check with the
consultant about that idea.
Administrator Hurm asked about changing the words “preservation” and “preserved” in questions
#34 and #38. Commissioner Themig brought up a question about the phrase “If the City were to
acquire land” because it could be a distracting or misleading thought. He suggested using the
phrase “If there was undeveloped land would you prefer it to remain undeveloped or used as
recreational areas.
Commissioner Bensman asked again about questions #33 and #34, wondering if the word
“hypothetically” solved the concern. She suggested the phrase “Setting aside concerns about cost
or tax increases for a moment . . “ as the introduction. Themig suggested leaving out that
sentence and just saying “I would like to read you a short list of six types of recreational
developments. Which one if any would you choose as your top priority.”
It was concluded that Administrator Hurm will take this list of suggestions along with the
comments from City Council to the consultant for creating a final document. Commissioner Arnst
asked about the status of selecting a Citizens Review Committee. Administrator Hurm said that it
is temporarily on hold. Commissioner Arnst then asked about the outcome of discussions about a
trail along Strawberry Lane. Administrator Hurm explained that the City Council is not willing at
this point to go to the Watershed District about widening Strawberry Lane beyond the current 22
feet allowed. Therefore, there is no plan for a trail along Strawberry at the present time.
REVIEW TOURNAMENT POLICY
10.
Chair Puzak asked if the policy is ready for approval or if the Commission needs further
discussion time for approval. Because of the late hour, it was decided to table this item.
PARK COMMISSION ROLE WITH LAND CONSERVATION COMMITTEE
11.
ACTIVITIES AND STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PLANNING
Chair Puzak reported that when the ad hoc committee was formed to look at stormwater
management. He and another commissioner felt that the Park Commission was taking a back seat.
After discussing their concern with Administrator Hurm, it became understood that this
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
APRIL 14, 1998 - PAGE 10
committee will simply outline tools for the community. Once developed there may be a process, at
which time the Park Commission would become involved and have a voice. He pointed out that
there is a video available with additional information.
Administrator Hurm added that the City Council didn’t want to set up another committee and
have hired a professional to study this issue. The Council has asked that there be a representative
from both Commissions as well as the Council to act as liaison during this process. Commissioner
Dallman volunteered to be liaison from the Park Commission. There was discussion about the
interest and role of the Park Commission with stormwater management.
Chair Puzak noted that the Park Commission has an interest in trails, but not an official role
according to the municipal code. Council has asked the Commissions about trails and that is what
involves them at this time. The Park Commission may want to suggest a change in the Charter,
defining the Park Commissions official role in trails.
OLD BUSINESS
12.
There was no old business.
NEW BUSINESS
13.
Commissioner Bensman has composed a letter to the Editor to publicly thank Jennifer McCarty
on behalf of the Park Commission. Members of the Park Commission expressed agreement with
the wording and sentiment of the letter, adding that Jennifer’s contribution to the City is
appreciated and that she will be missed.
Bensman moved, Puzak seconded, that the Park Commission agree to sign the letter and
send it on to the local paper for publication. The motion passed 7/0.
Chair Puzak thanked Commissioner Bensman for taking a leadership role on behalf of the Park
Commission.
Commissioner Arnst asked if some thank you letters should be sent to the recently departed
members of the Commission, also acknowledging their service. She asked if the policies for
dealing with the sports organizations will be on the next agenda. Chair Puzak said it will go on a
future agenda, but there are few items that need to be focused on at the next meeting.
Administrator Hurm reminded the Commissioners that the park tours are scheduled for the next
two meetings with Call to Order planned for 8:00 p.m.
Commissioner Arnst added a few housekeeping items: a large tree house has been constructed at
the edge of Freeman Park, the Mutt Mitt dispenser is empty, and there is are some posts and
timbers laying at the entrance from the LRT to Freeman that could be dangers.
There was discussion about adding a second Commission meeting to the month of April. It was
agreed to have a special meeting on April 28 from 7:30 to 9:30 to address the items that were
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APRIL 14, 1998 - PAGE 11
tabled at this meeting, including the skatepark update, soccer field report, trail survey and sports
organization and tournament policy.
ADJOURNMENT
14.
Arnst moved, Colopoulos seconded to adjourn the meeting at 10:44 p.m. Motion passed 7/0.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
Connie Bastyr
Recording Secretary