042898 PK MIN
CITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PARK COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY, APRIL 28, 1998 7:30 P.M.
MINUTES
1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
Chair Puzak called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
A. Roll Call
Present: Chair Puzak; Commissioners, Dallman, Arnst, Themig and Cochran;
Administrator Jim Hurm and Public Works Director Larry Brown
Absent: Commissioners Colopoulos, Bensman; Council Liaison McCarty
Also present: Chris Farni
B. Review Agenda
There were no additions or deletions. The agenda was approved.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
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A. Park Commission Meeting Minutes of April 14, 1998
Arnst moved, Themig seconded, to accept the minutes as submitted. The motion passed 5/0.
Commissioner Arnst asked if the minutes from the Park Commission meeting of March 30, 1998
were ever approved. Administrator Hurm will check on this and include it in the next meeting
agenda if needed.
3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
Chris Farni, Major League Coach for South Tonka Little League addressed those present,
thanking the City of Shorewood and the Park Commission for park facilities which allow children
to play baseball. Mr. Farni added that the Little League (with the help of the Minnetonka Men’s
Club), continues to make improvements to their fields to improve safety as well as adding appeal
for the players. Mr. Farni’s request was for the Park Commission’s approval to install a twenty
foot aluminum flag pole to display the U.S. flag and the POW/MIA flag during ball games. The
idea is to train kids about flag etiquette and to continue the long-standing tradition of pre-game
attention to the flag and to the National Anthem. Mr. Farni explained that the flag would be raised
just prior to the game and then brought down at night after the last game. The funds have already
been designated by the Little League to cover the cost.
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Commissioner Dallman stated full agreement with the plan, adding that the American Legion is a
possible resource for providing training on flag etiquette and may also donate a flag to the cause.
Mr. Farni expressed appreciation for the strong community support and noted that the manpower
to install a flagpole has already been arranged. Chair Puzak added his agreement and support,
calling for a motion to approve. Engineer Brown asked about lighting for after daylight hours and
the intended location of the pole. Since games end before dark, it would be unnecessary to add
lighting. Mr. Farni described the location to be in line with center field. Administrator Hurm
clarified that this process would not need prior approval from the City Council.
Dallman moved, Cochran seconded to authorize South Tonka Little League to install a flag
pole outside of Field #3 and utilize proper flag etiquette in displaying and storing the flag.
There was discussion about plans for a loudspeaker system. Mr. Farni said that this is one of the
items for future consideration along with other improvements to the facility. For now, a boom box
will supply music for the playing of the National Anthem. It was also noted that City staff will
work with the Little League on placement and other details.
The motion passed 5/0.
4. REPORTS
A. Animal Ordinance
Administrator Hurm stated that the City Council did pass the animal ordinance at their April 27
meeting, which requires pet owners to clean up waste left by their dogs (or cats) on park land or
other public property. He explained that the next step is to develop a communication plan to
educate residents about this change. Commissioner Themig asked that those who responded to
the request for input on this subject would be thanked or somehow recognized for their support.
Administrator Hurm suggested that this be a general reply through the Citizen Informer.
Commissioner Dallman asked for clarification of the phrase “under the control of the owner” as
used in the City code. It is defined as being on a leash or responsive to voice command.
Commissioner Arnst requested that signage also be a part of the education plan. Engineer Brown
explained that staff is currently looking at options, including a standard, rather than custom made
sign. The special order signs take about 6 weeks to arrive. Administrative Hurm added that the
signs would probably not be temporary. Commissioner Themig expressed concern about the
safety of allowing dogs to be off leash on public property. It was explained that many pet owners
use the opportunity to let their dogs exercise by running for a ball or Frisbee. The City is not
aware of complaints or problems with this policy.
B. Draft Resolution Regarding a Skate Park
Administrator Hurm explained that the draft “Resolution Encouraging a Joint Skateboard Park
Committee” is presented for the consideration of the Park Commission and asked for questions or
suggestions. He added that the basic idea is to support a request to the City Council that the Park
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Commission provide a person to be on a multi-community committee which would analyze the
feasibility of a skate park and make a recommendation back to each city. The committee would be
asked to report back to the cities and Minnetonka Community Education and Services (MCES)
within 90 days of its first meeting. Chair Puzak asked for clarification on what the committee is
expected to accomplish in that time frame. It was explained that the resolution is clear in defining
their report as a feasibility study only. Chair Puzak stated that the draft resolution is in line with
what was agreed upon at the last Park Commission meeting and that it leads to the next step of
forming a sponsored group to look at the idea of a skate park.
Dallman moved, Themig seconded that the Park Commission recommend to City Council
that they adopt the Resolution Encouraging a Joint Skateboard Park Committee. The
motion passed 5/0.
Commissioner Arnst asked for clarification of the next step. Administrator Hurm will send a copy
of the draft to the neighboring city managers and put the resolution on the agenda for the next
City Council meeting (2 weeks from this time). If the Council approves it, an official copy will be
sent to each City with a letter asking for their participation. There was also discussion about
designating a representative from the Shorewood Park Commission at this time. There were no
other questions or discussion.
Chair Puzak asked if a representative could be named with two Commissioners absent. It was
agreed that someone should be chosen for now and a change could be made later, if needed. The
representative needs to be someone who is excited about the idea and could also provide
leadership skills. Commissioner Arnst was asked to consider, but declined to volunteer due to lack
of time. After further discussion,
Arnst moved, Dallman seconded that Dan Puzak be the representative to the Skate Park
Committee, representing the City of Shorewood and the Park Commission. The motion
passed 5/0.
Administrator Hurm asked for clarification of which communities should be approached. Those
listed were: Tonka Bay, Excelsior, Greenwood, Woodland, Deephaven, Victoria, Minnetrista,
Orono, and Mound. Chair Puzak suggested that the City of Chanhassen be asked to provide
guidance.
C. Procedure for Reviewing Requests for Frisbee Golf at Freeman and
Basketball at Manor
Chair Puzak explained that the Frisbee Golf idea is on the agenda because of a phone request left
of the Shoreline voice mail system. He raised the question about future procedure for making
such a request an agenda item or whether it should be addressed under Matters From the Floor.
There was further discussion about the merits and drawbacks of each approach and possible
guidelines to follow. Administrator Hurm pointed out that the Council policy has been that if a
request comes on a timely basis and the requesting party has pertinent materials prepared, they are
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put on the next meeting agenda. People are not required to first address the Council through
Matters From the Floor.
After further discussion it was agreed that the placement of an item as a 3-minute Matters From
the Floor topic vs. a full agenda item would be determined by the length of the agenda and the
time available within each meeting. In the mean time, Administrator Hurm will contact the person
with the Frisbee Golf idea and ask them to be on the next agenda. The multipurpose basketball
surface will also be a future agenda item.
5. CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM
A. Report on Activity to Date
Engineer Brown reported that the netting for Freeman field #2 will be installed after NSP has the
crew available to install the 4 poles. The nets are being ordered. The adjacent homeowners have
been contacted and are satisfied that the foul ball problem is being addressed. Administrator Hurm
added that the peak of foul ball occurrences will be later in the season which may mean that the
delay will not be a problem.
The parking lot at Field #3 is the other part of the $7,500 line item. Public Works has moved the
poles so bull pens could be constructed. The “Center Car Here” signs near Field #3 are installed.
The good news is that the original possibility of losing 2 or 3 trees is now down to 1 tree that may
suffer damage in this process. There will be rock going in by the Eureka Road entrance with
“Center Car” signs to be added. The benches at Cathcart Park are installed. The overlay of the
tennis courts will be done in warmer weather. The project of adding lighting to the Manor pond is
still under consideration. The option of adding a new pole, rather than using an existing electrical
pole is being weighed.
Administrator Hurm reminded the Commission that this is their recommendation to City Council
and that they should be comfortable with it before sending it on for approval. He noted the items
that are not accounted for include; skate park, relocating field #2, relocating tennis courts, magic
square concept, and Minnewashta playground. The decision was set aside until the report on
soccer funding, which follows.
B. Meeting with Soccer Association
Administrator Hurm reported that he and Engineer Brown met with soccer representatives about
the concern of spending $60,000 to improve the soccer fields at Freeman. Those present from the
soccer association felt that they could ask their board for $10,000 each year for the next three
years to cover half of the expense. Their recommendation was that the entire project be done this
fall and all of the fields would be unavailable for the 1999 season. (The amended CIP reflects this
plan.) Administrator Hurm clarified that the Tonka United Soccer Association (TUSA)
representatives do realize that the $10,000 is in addition to the $3,500 donation for yearly
operating expenses.
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Chair Puzak asked about the future possibility that the Park Commission may want to use funds
for another item. This would be a problem if the $60,000 is taken from the fund as an up front
expense for the soccer improvements with only $10,000 being returned each year for 3 years.
Administrator Hurm suggested that this may require reconsidering other budgeted expenses such
as the park building or sanitary sewer for Freeman. Commissioner Arnst brought up the subject of
Minnewashta playing fields and playground equipment. She noted that the recreational facilities at
Minnewashta are not just for school use, but have community value as well so it seems that the
City should make some kind of contribution to that improvement rather than putting so much
money into one interest. Chair Puzak agreed and asked Engineer Brown if there is any way to
trim the cost of improvements to the soccer area. Engineer Brown said it is already a lean estimate
and that the expenses of material, irrigation, etc. drive the price up. Commissioner Cochran asked
if other funds could be tapped into such as the trail fund. Administrator Hurm cautioned against
using funds that was specifically set up for another purpose and suggested going to City Council
to ask if money could be borrowed from a general fund area. Commissioner Arnst asked if a
donation to the Minnewashta playground would have to come from park funds rather than the
general fund. Administrator Hurm said no, but pointed out that the park budget is the most logical
source.
Commissioner Themig brought up the original plan for the soccer grant which earlier did not
involve City money. The soccer club was to match the grant dollars. Administrator Hurm said that
the expense to repair the fields was much larger than originally thought. Also, the status of the
grant money is still unknown. Chair Puzak explained the background of soccer field conditions
and how they were being addressed. The scope of the problem was recently realized as needing
more than just some top dressing work. The big price tag was a surprise. Commissioner Themig
asked about the level of commitment to this organization and about the precedent being set if
$30,000 is given to their interest. While it is agreed that the investment in park land and field
space should be maintained and protected, it was pointed out that the soccer fields serve only one
segment of the population. There was discussion about the possibility of approaching the soccer
association with a counter offer for more money. Commissioner Arnst commented that the
demand is growing while the dollars for parks are dwindling. This requires a re-thinking of the
process.
Chair Puzak quickly estimated the funding requests that could be requested within the coming
year for a skate park, magic square, playground, etc. and said that it means a shortfall of easily
$15,000 within the year. In any case, it comes down to a need to come up with some money.
Administrator Hurm pointed out that the park building was originally set for $50,000 rather than
$60,000 and could be dropped back to $50,000. Also the sanitary sewer at $40,000 could be
postponed or eliminated. Commissioner Dallman also offered ideas for getting by without sanitary
sewer at Freeman. He suggested that the Park Foundation could also be challenged to help with
funding to supplement that improvement. The building could be built with rough-in for facilities
and the sewer could be added as a future improvement.
After further discussion Chair Puzak suggested that the Mayor, Administrator and he meet to
discuss the idea of asking the City Council for general funds for some of the additional projects.
Secondly, a meeting could be called with the soccer club representatives to discuss the high cost
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of field repair and ask them to contribute to the concession stand expenses in 1999. Administrator
Hurm stated that this idea has been raised and the soccer club does not consider a concession
stand as a priority at this time. Commissioner Arnst suggested just asking them for more funding
toward the cost of field repair. Commissioner Themig stated that he is not comfortable with that
until the Park Commission knows its policy for working with other sports organizations overall.
He asked if the soccer fields could just be left in their present condition. Engineer Brown
explained that there has been an increase in injuries due to the compacting of the soil, but it is not
a must-do situation for this year.
Administrator Hurm asked that if there is a set policy, does it then require the City to change how
things are handled with other more established situations. There needs to be flexibility and the
ability to negotiate with each situation. Commissioner Themig stated that this is fine if the
Commission acknowledges that this is how it will be done. Commissioner Dallman agreed. Chair
Puzak added the point that each organization is going to have a different revenue situation.
Following more discussion, Commissioner Arnst pointed out that the question of how to deal with
sports organizations is still not resolved. Commissioner Cochran responded that the policy seems
to be that there is no policy. There were more comments supporting the need to maintain
flexibility. Administrator Hurm noted that the soccer request is unique for Shorewood. In the
past, the City and the sports organization have shared expenses, but this is the first time that major
renovation has been needed.
Commissioner Themig asked again about the original intent of the Mighty Kids Grant, saying that
there was less money earmarked for education at first. Now that area is where the majority of the
funds would go. Administrator Hurm explained the logic of putting funds into programs
according to the grant guidelines. There was discussion about the timeliness of the approval of the
CIP. Chair Puzak summarized the problem of a surprise need from soccer combined with a tight
budget, plus a few additional concepts the Park Commission would like to support. The solution
statement would be to offer to negotiate (a) with the City Council for money from the general
fund, (b) with TUSA for additional funds within their capacity to generate it. The policy question
seems best to leave as flexible as possible to deal on a case by case basis.
Commissioner Arnst felt that a baseline needs to be created for consistency because things are
changing and there will likely be another large request for funds in the future. This is a separate
decision than the one on the table, but it needs to be brainstormed and addressed at another time.
Chair Puzak suggested the need is to stick to a policy of user funded capital improvements. All
requests for upgrades would be funded by the users based on their ability to pay. The City could
front money to spread the cost of improvements out over a longer number of years to be paid
back by the organization.
Administrator Hurm asked about the City’s responsibility to deal with repairs where there is a
safety concern. Chair Puzak responded that his suggestion is just a concept and that there will
always be gives and takes in the reality of it. There are things the City will have to do just as good
stewards of the property. This approach would make the City’s role as banker, owner and
caretaker with user-based fees to help with maintenance costs. Chair Puzak asked if this is a
solution for now as well as the future. Commissioner Themig disagreed because there is still a
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lack of funds. Commissioner Dallman suggested that as owner, the City can determine timing and
negotiation of financial assistance from users.
Administrator Hurm offered one more thought to keep in mind. This plan lends itself to a sense of
ownership kind of like there is with football and certainly like there is with Little League. We have
an understanding that ownership is only during the season. We really never had an ownership
with soccer. They have wondered if there may be a new football field where soccer is or if they
will lose the field. But with this there is going to come a certain feel of ownership. Commissioner
Themig stated that he is totally comfortable with that because that insures a commitment to not
only the program overall but repaying the funds and it insures the commitment they have a great
facility to use now. It encourages the participation and enthusiasm. As long as they understand its
a shared ownership. Engineer Brown brought up that they asked the soccer organization that they
restrict soccer fields from being too near the play structure or the softball fields for safety reasons.
This new arrangement could cause a more “territorial” attitude on the part of the soccer club if
the City has such a request again.
Commissioner Arnst pointed out that with all sports organizations there needs to be defined
expectations on their part and the part of the City. Shorewood needs to be defined as a steward
and there needs to be understanding that the facility is shared. Administrator Hurm offered to help
with possibly forming a small committee to approach TUSA to work on these issues. Chair Puzak
suggested that the Park Commission start by first forming a small group to further develop a
concept. There are risks to each idea, however some structure is needed. Commissioner Themig
recommended that the next step is to have the Administrator go back to TUSA and bounce the
idea off of them. Administrator Hurm suggested that Chair Puzak be included in that discussion
and that they start with a list of expectations for both the City and the soccer club. Issues of user
fees, capital improvements could also be addressed.
Administrator Hurm cited football and hockey organizations which have not yet contributed to
the operating fund because of their own policies and practices with other cities. The Park
Commission does not want to become unfriendly toward users and the bottom line is moderation
and ultimately safety for users of the parks. Administrator Hurm will fax a draft of the ideas to
start the process of meeting about soccer.
This discussion has covered agenda item #8.
C. Request for Financial Assistance for Minnewashta School Playground
Equipment
This was discussed in the above section.
D. Concession Building
This has also been covered in section 5B.
6. RECOMMENDATION ON GRANT AGREEMENT (SOCCER)
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The City is not contributing money toward the grant, but will act as financial agent. The next step
is a motion to recommend to Council that they go ahead with the Grant Agreement.
Themig moved, Dallman seconded that the Park Commission recommend to Council that
they proceed with the Minnesota Amateur Sports Commission Mighty Kids Grant
Agreement. Motion passed 5/0.
Chair Puzak reviewed the outcome of discussion, asking if item #5 has been covered.
Administrator Hurm clarified that this includes the understanding that staff will proceed with each
of the items discussed except for the soccer field improvement. Commissioner Arnst asked if the
people working on the Minnewashta playground equipment have been contacted. Administrator
Hurm has left a recorded message but they have not returned the call. There was discussion about
approaching the City Council for additional funds. It was decided that Chair Puzak will ask that
the General Fund Contribution of $10,000 per year be continued beyond the projected time frame,
which would end in 1998. Administrator Hurm reminded Commissioners that there is a levy limit
imposed by the Legislature that may impact that decision.
7. REVIEW TOURNAMENT POLICIES
Tabled until the next meeting date.
8. DISCUSSION REGARDING GUIDELINES ON RELATIONSHIPS WITH
SPORTS ORGANIZATIONS
This was covered in the discussion under item #5.
9. PARK AND TRAIL PLANNING PROCESS REVIEW
Administrator Hurm asked for suggestions or changes in the timeline and the draft letter to
selected residents. Commissioner Themig suggested changing the wording in paragraph #3 from
“You have been randomly selected” to “You are invited” because it may generate more
excitement. Commissioner Arnst suggested that the entire paragraph be at the beginning of the
letter to serve as an introduction. She also suggested using the phrase “a select group of
residents” rather than “randomly selected” at the beginning of the second paragraph.
Administrator Hurm agreed.
Back on the subject of soccer . . .
Commissioner Themig had one more comment. He recommended that the discussion with the
soccer association should not begin with the idea that the City will fund the full cost of field
repair. Chair Puzak stated that he is prepared to negotiate with the immediate understanding that
the City has limited resources, even if that means another year of playing on a bad surface.
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Administrator Hurm reminded the Commissioners that the next two meetings begin with a park
tour at 6:00 p.m. followed by a meeting at 8:00 p.m. at City Hall.
10. RESOLUTIONS OF APPRECIATION
There was one correction to both draft Resolutions in paragraph #5. The word “serve” is changed
to “service”.
Themig moved, Arnst seconded that the Park Commission Adopt the Resolution of
Appreciation for Jim Wilson. Motion passed 5/0.
Dallman moved, Cochran seconded that the Park Commission Adopt the Resolution of
Appreciation for Ann Packard. Motion passed 5/0.
11. OLD BUSINESS
There was no old business
12. NEW BUSINESS
There was no new business.
13. ADJOURNMENT
Themig moved, Arnst seconded to adjourn the meeting and to table Item #7 and continue
Item #5 at the next meeting. Motion passed 5/0. The meeting adjourned at 9:37 p.m.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
Connie Bastyr
Recording Secretary