Loading...
111098 PK MIN CITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS PARK COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 10, 1998 7:30 P.M. MINUTES 1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING Chair Puzak called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. A. Roll Call Present: Chair Puzak; Commissioners Colopoulos, Dallman, Arnst, Themig, and Cochran Administrator Jim Hurm Absent: Commissioner Bensman; Council Liaison Roger Champa B. Review Agenda There were no additions or deletions to the agenda. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES OF THE PARK COMMISSION MEETING OF OCTOBER 13, 1998 Themig moved, Arnst seconded, to accept the minutes as amended. The motion passed 4/0/2 with Cochran and Colopoulos abstaining. Page 5, Paragraph 1, Line 6: Change the sentence, “This does mean that decisions are not made in a vacuum.” to “This does not mean that decisions are made in a vacuum.”. Page 7, Last line: correct the word “trial” to “trail.” Page 4, Paragraph 6, Line 3: Change “sufficient land” to “sufficient park land.” Commissioner Colopoulos suggested that names be recorded for all positions (yea, nay and abstain) when any name is mentioned as opposed in a vote on a motion. It was agreed that this shall be done. 3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR There were no matters from the floor 4. REPORTS A. Report on Youth Coalition Meetings Chair Puzak reported that there has been another meeting, attended by the same core group of people. Park Commission Minutes November 10, 1998 Page 2 They have contacted the person who was recommended to be the project manager. He was interested in the project, but was unable to attend the meeting. There is also a woman who has had experience with opening a skateboard park in Mound who is willing to be involved. Other developments are: ? Judd Mowry will go to Tonka Bay City Council for an official word on the offer of space in Manitou Park. ? There has not yet been any official action from the City of Excelsior. ? A letter has been sent to the five neighboring Cities asking for a statement of their support. ? A member has been added to the Coalition from the Excelsior Area Chamber of Commerce. The next meeting is scheduled for November 12. B. Update on Proposal for the City to Acquire the Wagner Property. Administrator Hurm reported that there have been no new developments or action taken by the City Council since the last Park Commission meeting. Commissioner Colopoulos, who was not present at the previous Park Commission meeting, had some comments after reading the minutes. Commissioner Colopoulos had thought that the Park Foundation would have taken a stronger position toward supporting the addition of space to Freeman Park, although he understands why they were unable to offer financial solutions. Commissioner Colopoulos asked if the Wagner property were purchased by a developer, could there be some policy or statement which provides for protection of the park boundary, perhaps even a buffer zone. Commissioner Colopoulos remembered that the proposed senior housing project was opposed when the park boundary looked compromised. Chair Puzak explained that the encroachment on to park property would have been because the development would have required a second entrance which would have changed traffic patterns within the park. It would have intensified traffic at a point where there is already a high risk zone. This is his area of discomfort. -------------------------- Commissioner Themig interjected a thought on the skate park issue (Item 4A). Commissioner Themig stated that he has information on a new technology for skate park structures which he discovered at a recent conference. Commissioner Themig will give the information to Chair Puzak. Chair Puzak added that the Youth Coalition is moving toward a park in which no jump or structure would be higher than 3 feet tall. Chair Puzak asked the Park Commissioners to help with data collection by surveying any young persons they know who might have opinions. 5. WORK PLAN ITEM: RESPOND TO THE PARK FOUNDATION CHALLENGE ON Park Commission Minutes November 10, 1998 Page 3 CONCESSION STAND/SHELTER AT FREEMAN PARK Chair Puzak explained that the Park Foundation had suggested that the $100,000 budgeted for a concession stand could be used toward the purchase of the Wagner property. Chair Puzak asked for a response from the Park Commission. Commissioner Colopoulos said that while there is not a consensus in favor of the purchase, this gesture on the part of the Park Foundation should be considered as an act of leadership. In the future, a decision to not purchase the land may be viewed as a lost opportunity. Commissioner Dallman explained that the Park Foundation offered the reallocation of the money as a way of partially funding the land because the chance to obtain property adjacent to Freeman Park is a limited time offer. The concession stand can be built at any time in the future. Commissioner Dallman added that their recommendation is to use the additional land for active field space rather than for parking or undeveloped buffer space. Commissioner Cochran commented that the suggestion from the Park Foundation to swing money from this project into a land purchase is a big endorsement. Commissioner Colopoulos added that, although there would still be a shortage of $137,000, the focus is worthy of comment. Commissioner Colopoulos also pointed out that the sports organizations represent a large number of nonresidents which may be an issue to Shorewood taxpayers. Commissioner Dallman noted that there are also civic groups involved in the Park Foundation. Commissioner Dallman added that there were representatives of some sports organizations at the City Council meeting to express their support of the purchase for park development. Commissioner Arnst asked what the focus is suppose to be with tonight’s discussion. Commissioner Themig thought it was to move the concept of a park structure to the planning stage. Commissioner Dallman suggested a recommendation to City Council to begin plans for construction, (possibly build for the 1999 season), and then go to the sports organizations to ask about their plans for use and operation of a concession stand. Commissioner Colopoulos asked if the primary value of the concession stand was perceived to be a revenue generator or would some other goals be achieved if it provides picnic shelter and a restroom? If its value is not in concessions, then the plan as a fund raiser/concession service does not affect the go-ahead. Commissioner Dallman replied that the sports organizations would like to see a concession service, but are not interested in operating one, even though it may be a money maker. There is also value to them if the structure provides picnic shelter, warming house, kitchen facilities, restroom space, etc. Chair Puzak summarized the discussion: 1.This is a park amenity. Money making is tangent. If so, it is the City’s park and their decisions. Park Commission Minutes November 10, 1998 Page 4 2.It is not primarily a fund raiser. 3.It should be a multi-purpose building with possibly: kitchen, bathrooms, picnic shelter, maybe warming house, storage, etc. Yes, there are a lot of issues, but they are tangential to these known points. Administrator Hurm agreed that it is significant for the Park Commission to look at it as an amenity first.. At one time it was seen as an opportunity for sports organizations to raise money to help reimburse the City. That was primary, but is now tangential. Chair Puzak reiterated that focus was lost when it was put out as a money maker. Think in terms of an amenity and start from there. Commissioner Colopoulos agreed that it is good to get away from the idea of a fund raiser. Commissioner Cochran added that we have been over-complicating the issue as a result. Commissioner Arnst stated that she likes this way of looking at the project and that this is the first time the Commission has talked about it in a healthy way. Chair Puzak also was favorable about it, but doesn’t want to pull the rug out from under the Park Foundation on the idea of offering the money for the purchase of the Wagner property. Chair Puzak also brought up the issue of timing with a new Council which will have many other issues to deal with at the start of the new year. Administrator Hurm suggested that the $5,000 that has been raised for a park structure, plus the $2,000 from the Park Foundation could be used toward the cost of planning to help get the project off the ground. Commissioner Dallman noted that the Park Foundation has already agreed to the use of $2,000 for plans, but then found that plans could be done for free by Chaska Building Center if the materials are purchased there. Commissioner Arnst asked what the timeline for a park structure would be if the $100,000 were to be used for the land purchase. Chair Puzak estimated 5 years. Commissioner Arnst stated that the park structure is a very diverse amenity and is doable now, where the land acquisition is in limbo and could take forever to materialize as a park amenity. Commissioner Colopoulos agreed that there are cons on the idea of the land purchase and a strong case in favor of the park structure. Commissioner Colopoulos doesn’t see how one is a trade-off for the other. Chair Puzak asked Commissioner Dallman to make his best argument against spending money to begin plans for a park structure. Chair Puzak wants all sides of the argument on the table and put the topic up for debate. First, he called on Administrator Hurm for his comments. Administrator Hurm suggested that the Park Commission needs to be prepared and do plans and assume that it would cost maybe $10,000 for design and plans. The $7,000 pledged by the Park Foundation may not be available if the structure goes no further than the planning stage, so do not count on that funding at this point. Commissioner Dallman explained that the Legion and the Tonka Men’s Club have both offered $2,500 if matched by the Foundation, which they would agree to put Park Commission Minutes November 10, 1998 Page 5 toward planning costs. Administrator Hurm stated that they may not agree if the building is never built. Commissioner Dallman said that both organizations will be there any way they can, adding that there are those on the Foundation who would disagree with putting any money toward a park amenity. When it comes down to the park shelter, he felt the Park Foundation will move forward to build the park structure. Commissioner Themig noted that the master plan for the park includes a concession stand. The focus has been on concessions, which he would not support unless there was a demonstrated need, plan, estimated revenue, etc. If there is no interest in operating or building it, why invest the money? He is in favor of a multi-use structure. Then, if the sports organizations come forward with a demonstrated interest in concessions and an offer of financial support, it could be incorporated later on. Others agreed to that approach. Commissioner Themig added that part of the struggle is that someone from the City would need to take on this project if the Park Commission recommends money be spent for planning and asked who that would be. Administrator Hurm explained that normally that would be the role of City Engineer Larry Brown. Or it could be managed by the Park Foundation if they found someone to do so. There was further discussion about the timing of approval and funding from the 1999 budget. There was also question about how this would affect the potential to purchase the Wagner property if still available. Commissioner Colopoulos said that each plan needs to be looked at for its own merit and the Park Commission should be consistent in its approach, proceed with plans and stick with it. Arnst moved, Colopoulos seconded, that the Park Commission request a transfer of $5,000 from the 1999 CIP effective as soon as we can arrange it to begin the design plans for a multipurpose building to include restrooms and warming house shelter. Following discussion, Themig amended the motion to include design and site plans to effectively evaluate sewer and water issues. Arnst accepted the amendment and Colopoulos seconded the motion as amended. Arnst withdrew the motion and restated as follows: The Park Commission would request $5,000 from the 1999 CIP to be used to develop plans for the multipurpose facility to be constructed at Freeman Park in addition to be used for site evaluation, specifically looking at the issues of sewer and water and placement of the structure. Colopoulos seconded. The motion passed unanimously. There was discussion about the next steps and possibilities for other uses for the facility (concerts, interest point along the trail, etc.). There was consensus that this is a new view with lots of potential. 6. DEVELOP A POLICY ON THE USE AND IMPROVEMENT OF PARK LAND FOR Park Commission Minutes November 10, 1998 Page 6 ORGANIZED SPORTS ORGANIZATIONS Commissioner Themig explained that a subcommittee has come up with a general concept to look with formality in dealing with sports organizations. This includes defining what service the City provides and what are the things they should be charged a fee for. The draft is open for discussion and amendments. It would be good to have a final prepared by the end of 1998 so the sports organizations can be approached for ideas on their plans and needs for the coming year. Commissioner Colopoulos complimented the committee on a great outline, adding that it only needs to be filled in with some definitions. Commissioner Colopoulos pointed out that the various sports organizations would see “Basic Facility” in different ways. Providing space is the only basic facility that is true for all and beyond that, the possible interpretations are endless. Commissioner Themig replied that the general definition for Base Facility is that which the City wants to provide at each park, such as restrooms, play structure, routine maintenance, the basic amenities. Commissioner Colopoulos explained that the policy should be easily understood by those outside of this group. Chair Puzak summarized that a team of three have given an outline. The need now is to identify definitions by key words and go back to the committee to rework the outline, who would then bring a final draft to the Commission. Basic Park Facilities include such things as parking, trash removal, restrooms or “portapotty”, play structure, field space, property. Commissioner Cochran noted that definitions should allow for future interpretation and flexibility. Commissioner Themig explained that the sports organizations would be told that these are the basics. Beyond that we would have to negotiate special needs. The word “Enhancements” would be requests that need to be identified in the prior year in order to allow time for budgeting. Administrator Hurm brought up another question to be addressed. What if, in the future the sport of Lacrosse becomes a big thing and we have competition for space. Does the City have control over the use of space that has been used by another sports group? Is that clearly defined in this policy? Commissioner Themig said that the point of Field Availability mentions this. It can be further developed under that heading. One consideration would be how a particular activity meets the needs of the community (as in the decision to not allocate space for Frisbee Golf). Chair Puzak suggested a statement that the City is the owner and controller of park space. Under the area of “Types of Expenditures”, Chair Puzak suggested that New Projects include picnic shelter, irrigation or other examples. In “No Non-resident Fees”, Administrator Hurm explained that it has been the strong opinion of the Park Commission that we do not charge other cities. Commissioner Arnst suggested that the two sentences beginning with, “This would be a paperwork nightmare…” be deleted. The idea is to take a more cooperative and positive tone. The subject of “Maintenance Fee” has two areas that affect the sports organizations the most are Park Commission Minutes November 10, 1998 Page 7 improvements and ongoing maintenance. This is where fees come in. Administrator Hurm explained that it has not been called a “fee” before, but a “donation” which makes it a voluntary contribution. Commissioner Themig said that the thought is for those who want exclusive use, there is a fee for ongoing maintenance. Commissioner Cochran asked if this is implying that those who pay will get priority use? Commissioner Colopoulos said we have to consider inconsistency of the past policy. Because of tradition, there is already an inconsistent application to overcome. Commissioner Themig clarified that for those who want to reserve space, seniority goes to those who pay fees. Chair Puzak stated it is a reservation fee (paid via the organizations), not a user fee. Commissioner Dallman stated that he was uncomfortable with the idea. If, for example, soccer wants to use the football field and the football association has not paid a fee, does the policy say that the football field becomes a soccer field? And how will it be enforced? Chair Puzak replied that the City has the final authority, but it is the term, “policy” which gives flexibility. Commissioner Colopoulos stressed the importance of being consistent through the policy. Administrator Hurm said that this document is leveling for now, regardless of who paid in the past, or who did not. Chair Puzak stressed that these are guidelines, not rules and not an ordinance. It allows for a neighborly, cordial posture. Administrator Hurm asked about interpretation in the case of what happens if an organization does not pay. Commissioner Themig said that this document should not say that. Chair Puzak brought up the example of last year when there was demand for space and we had no policy to refer to. This would provide guidelines for how to respond. With regard to exclusive use, the sports organizations would need to communicate with the City about their schedule and needs for space. Commissioner Arnst noted that we do want a more formal relationship with the sports associations. Commissioner Themig explained that the thought was that once these were formalized, they would also develop a user-friendly package. Administrator Hurm said that the City has asked $3,500 from each of the three big organizations who use Freeman Park. Football and hockey were suggested an amount of $500. Commissioner Themig said that we have to define inconsistency. Commissioner Colopoulos suggested requesting a copy of schedules and needs for getting a feel of how much use there would be. Administrator Hurm suggested using maps to determine space use. Commissioner Themig commented that this level of detail is beyond the scope of this document. Chair Puzak said that it won’t be all solved in one night and we need to recognize the limitations of staff. Chair Puzak suggested using a “per Head” fee such as $3 per registered player. In any case, there needs to be a formula for fair and equitable treatment. Administrator Hurm said that there are problems with that approach and suggested it be determined by land use and wear and tear. Chair Puzak concluded the discussion by thanking the three committee members, Mark Themig, Pat Arnst and Jim Hurm. Chair Puzak suggested that the sports organizations be invited at some point to Park Commission Minutes November 10, 1998 Page 8 discuss this change in policy when in draft form. Commissioner Themig asked Commissioner Dallman to bring the matter up at the next Park Foundation meeting. 7. NEW BUSINESS Commissioner Themig brought up a topic which was covered at the conference he recently attended. At a session on NSP corridors, it was explained that these can be used as trail easements. Commissioner Arnst announced that she is about to serve on an advisory committee for the Metro DNR Greenway Board, which covers ecological and recreational areas. This is of interest to cities, companies, developers, etc. Commissioner Colopoulos asked if any further action should be taken by the Park Commission to formally make a statement to the City Council with regard to the Wagner property before the matter is closed. Chair Puzak said that the Park Commission position was well documented in the minutes and that it should rest there unless someone wants to put it on an agenda. Commissioner Arnst asked if the future agendas could consider the timing of agenda items which are involving guests such as the park planner or city engineer. She suggested that their issues be addressed at the beginning of the meeting so they are not held up until the later hours of the evening. It was agreed that guests should go first. 8. OLD BUSINESS Commissioner Themig reported that he had attended a meeting of the Ad Hoc Land Conservation Committee. They are in the process of reviewing their final report. It is very extensive and they have done an excellent job of identifying parcels of open space and evaluating options. He will summarize the report for the Park Commission after he has read it through. There will be a Work Session of the Park Commission on November 24 at 7:30 p.m. 12. ADJOURNMENT Arnst moved, Colopoulos seconded to adjourn the meeting. Motion passed 5/0. The meeting adjourned at 9:49 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED Connie Bastyr Recording Secretary Park Commission Minutes November 10, 1998 Page 9