112498 PK WS MIN
CITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PARK COMMISSION WORK SESSION 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 24, 1998 7:30 P.M.
MINUTES
1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
Chair Puzak called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
A. Roll Call
Present: Chair Puzak; Commissioners Colopoulos, Bensman, Dallman, Arnst, Themig, and
Cochran; Administrator Jim Hurm, City Planning Director Brad Nielsen, Park Planner
Mark Koegler, Shorewood Resident, Steve Kircher
B. Review Agenda
There were no additions or deletions to the agenda.
2. TRAIL PROCESS
A. Review Park/Trail Goals, Objectives and Policies in the Comprehensive Plan
(Community Facilities and Transportation)
Planning Director Brad Nielsen explained that the Planning Commission is working on the City’s
Comprehensive Plan. The next two sections they will study are “Community Facilities” and
“Transportation,” both of which include reference to parks and trails. They are looking to the Park
Commission for input and hope to elaborate on some goals. Planning Director Nielsen stated that the
goal for transportation as stated in the Comprehensive Plan is simple: “The City shall provide and
maintain a safe and efficient system of transportation, sensitive to the needs of residents and the
environment of the community”. He noted that the bullet statements of Mr. Koegler’s memo of
November 11, 1998 relate well to that goal, emphasizing the highest importance of safety as priority.
Convenience, meeting the needs of residents, efficiency, etc. come after safety.
Planning Director Nielsen explained that once goals and objectives are established, the policy
statements follow. All together, the goals, objectives and policies within the Comprehensive Plan lay a
foundation for taking a step back and saying why we are doing any particular project. That is why it is
important that trails and parks be identified in the Comp Plan.
Chair Puzak added that the Park Commission needs to give Planning Director Nielsen and the Planning
Commission any feedback on goals or objectives which they want included in the City’s
Comprehensive Plan. He suggested starting with the Mission Statement already established by the
Park Commission and end with a goal, stated as an outcome. Commissioner Bensman suggested that
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November 10, 1998
Page 2
the first bulleted statement in Koegler’s memo could be used: “The Shorewood trail system will
accommodate the safe movement of pedestrians, bicycles and other non-motorized modes of travel.”
Planning Director Nielsen commented that the Comprehensive Plan keeps goals simple and more
broad. Objectives then become more specific and the Policies tell how to get to the goal. He added
that trails are a very important part of the transportation system. It was included under transportation,
rather than recreation because it is very related to other parts of the system. Commissioner Colopoulos
asked if it is appropriate to make trails one of the objectives of the overall transportation
plan. Planning Director Nielsen replied yes.
Chair Puzak read aloud the 1996 Mission Statement:
The Shorewood Park Commission shall guide the development, implementation, and
maintenance of Shorewood’s recreational system. The recreational system, consisting of
parks and a multi-purpose trail network, shall provide the community and neighborhoods
with safe, attractive and diverse recreational facilities and a designated trail system.
Commissioner Themig asked if this discussion is an additional step beyond what was planned for this
meeting. Chair Puzak suggested that the next thing to do is to identify evaluation factors by first
reviewing the mission statement, which will then signal the Planning Commission as to what they
should be helping the Park Commission drive towards. This will provide the anchor point as the Park
Commission develops evaluation factors. Commissioner Bensman added that it also makes this work
consistent with the City’s Comprehensive Plan.
In looking at the mission statement, Chair Puzak noted key words: “Multi-purpose”, “Trail Network”,
and “Shall provide the community and neighborhoods with safe, attractive and diverse recreational
facilities.” Koegler pointed out that even if the City was not in the process of evaluating the
Comprehensive Plan, we would still be having this discussion. The intent already was to discuss and
define goals. He encouraged the Commission to decide on some ideas and concepts for Planning to
look at and to then come back to the Park Commission with their recommendation. The question as
we look at trails is: “What is the big picture?”.
Planning Director Nielsen stated that in the objective section, the Park Commission will begin to qualify
what they are going to do. It is a decision making process that starts out broad and gets specific with
issues and problems as they come up. At this point, he is only looking for a consensus that, yes, it is a
good idea to put an emphasis on trails in the overall plan. Commissioner Themig added that the trail
process would have even more credibility when supported by the Comprehensive Plan. Chair Puzak
agreed that it would also align the individual parts of the larger organism (the City) if the goals of each
are aligned, resulting in cohesive action. Chair Puzak added that as long as we agree that we want to
do the same thing, regardless of who comes first, we can get to the “whats” and “hows” (objectives
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November 10, 1998
Page 3
and policies).
Commissioner Arnst asked if it is safe to say that the first two “bullets” of Koegler’s November 18
memorandum are true for the Park Commission and pass those on to Brad Nielsen for a start. (Those
points are:
?
The Shorewood trail system will accommodate the safe movement of pedestrians,
bicycles and other non-motorzed modes of travel.
?
Shorewood trails will provide connections to points of interest in and around the
community and will be linked to trails provided by other local and regional jurisdictions.
Planning Director Nielsen offered that staff could put these together and bring something back for
evaluation by the Park Commission. Commissioner Bensman noted that the Comprehensive Plan is
neither the Park nor Planning Commissions plan, but the City’s plan. Commissioner Themig asked if
the option of linking trails under the Transportation category would possibly make funding available.
Planning Director Nielsen said that the emphasis within the Comprehensive Plan has moved from parks
to trails since the early 1980’s.
Chair Puzak explained that the Park Commission does not need to create the wording. This can be the
job of staff or the Planning Commission. As long as it incorporates the Park’s Mission Statement, it
would embody the thinking of the group. Planning Commissioner Nielsen agreed with the importance
of going back to the Mission Statement and cited the example of the proposal for a skateboard park,
which is in line with the overall mission of the Park Commission. Commissioner Themig stated that the
Park Commission has a responsibility to have more input. Planning Director Nielsen replied that they
will, but it may be helpful to have a suggested draft outline to react to. He asked for feedback on
statements offered in Koegler’s November 18 memo for a start.
B. Develop Trail Site Evaluation Factors
Park Planner Koegler explained that the intent is to use some criteria to evaluate trails. The seven Trail
Evaluation Factors are suggested as this “yard stick” as potential trails are discussed in meetings and
while out in the field. He asked if there are other ideas the Park Commissioners want to include.
Commissioner Themig said it seems there is a step process. First, the potential trial segment needs to
meet a certain level of criteria. Then go to the neighbors for input. And finally it arrives at the stage of
design considerations and funding sources. Chair Puzak offered another way of tiering a decision,
looking at core objectives, barriers (or hurdles) and then design through or around the barriers.
Commissioner Colopoulos recommended that these steps be approached as opportunities, not barriers.
Administrator Hurm suggested that the process would start with a large number of possible trails (30
to 40) and then use the criteria to get that down to a reasonable number of sites to actually walk (5 to
8). Those would then funnel down to a feasible amount to begin to build. Bensman offered the
suggestion of still asking all of the questions posed in the Trail Evaluation Factors, but assigning
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November 10, 1998
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different weight or value to each factor. Chair Puzak expressed the idea of considering segments based
on an eventual outcome of an interconnected system. Commissioner Bensman felt it is important to
start with segments that people have already requested in order to get the process going.
Commissioner Themig noted that those are two very different priorities. Commissioner Colopoulos
said it is okay to have diverse emphasis, but we must consider one thing learned from the past. If a
plan is so big that funding doesn’t work, it can get stuck and never move forward. Overall design does
not equal overall implementation. Commissioner Dallman suggested having an overall system in mind,
but get segments started first, based on: (1) Does the neighborhood want it? (2) Does it comply with
goals? (3) Is the engineering possible?
Commissioner Colopoulos pointed out that the Trail Evaluation Factors, as written leave room for
details to be crafted to suit the needs of neighborhoods. Koegler said that it seems that all of the items
are becoming intertwined. He reminded the Park Commission about the process which includes an
expectation that when we get to that point, we will have a means to implement a system. We can
expect to start the process with segments and it may be up to 15 years for overall success. Koegler
reviewed the steps from deciding on a big picture to realistic implementation.
Chair Puzak asked for input on which of the seven proposed evaluation factors is the most non-
controversial. Commissioner Themig said that all are excellent. Chair Puzak raised a question with the
fifth point which asks if the potential segment complies with goals and objectives. He is not clear on
what those exactly are. He suggested two basic questions to consider: (1) How does it work for the
neighborhood? and (2) How does it work for the community? He is concerned that the pieces do not
look to the whole process if we decide segment by segment. Commissioner Bensman agreed that if the
answer to question (1) is “No” then it would have to get to the level of what is best for the community.
Chair Puzak invited the resident in attendance to state his thoughts. Steve Kircher introduced himself as
a neighbor in the Virginia Highlands area. He started by saying that his neighborhood has a “sweet
spot” for Smithtown Road because it has valid points all around. He thinks that the first consideration
is safety above all else. His area has a lot of kids living where they have no safe way out of their
neighborhoods by foot or bicycle. He also sees a trail system as a way to promote the concept of
community within Shorewood.
Chair Puzak suggested the concept of community as a possible objective. Commissioner Themig
stated that the goal is to think in terms of the big picture. The process comes to the neighborhood
level, but then how do we apply the evaluation factors and do that? There was more discussion about
inter-connectivity, the process, goals, and other factors such as property values and execution of a plan.
Commissioner Arnst stated that there are a lot of things we can’t know until we actually do it.
Park Planner Koegler said that the process tells us where to start. We have answered the question,
“Does Shorewood want trails?” with a yes. But we can’t know where to start until we know the
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November 10, 1998
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hoops to jump through. Chair Puzak summarized that this work session is only part of a long journey
which started over a year ago. The journey is to build toward what the people want. The next step at
this point is to mark and map potential segments for that system.
C. Trail Concept Review
Mr. Koegler showed one Shorewood map which was marked to indicate trail sites based on past
suggestions. He then provided a “blank” Shorewood map with indications of adjacent cities’ trails (real
and potential) and passed around various colored markers. Koegler reminded those present to
consider what people have asked for (as indicated on the first map) and what the City had considered in
their 1991 Trail Plan. His goal for this meeting is to begin to talk about where they currently think
trails should be.
Chair Puzak suggested comparing the 1991 plan to the current map and see if segments fit with points
on the “blank” map of attractions and linking trails. Commissioner Bensman said that one value is
connections to other trails and to school. Planning Director Nielsen pointed out that safety is a prime
consideration, asking if a proposed trial segment gets kids off of busy streets. Commissioner Themig
referred back to using the evaluation factors.
The group identified collector streets (Smithtown, Eureka, Old Market Road, Cathcart, County Road
19, Minnetonka Blvd) and marked the busier roads. The LRT was also discussed. Chair Puzak
offered an idea to create a trail segment on the south side of Smithtown, near the golf course in order
to create a loop with the LRT. This is based on the frequent comment from residents that they want a
trail, but no closer than 1 block from their property. He also mentioned the comment from a resident
who wanted a trail away from traffic and lights for night time walks to view stars.
After some brainstorming with markers and maps and further conversation, Chair Puzak summarized
the discussion:
1.We have an idea of what the community wants.
2.There is some element of connectivity.
3.We have identified a “backbone” (LRT).
4.We have identified some points of interest.
5.A “Dark Starry Night” trail for western Shorewood has been considered.
6.The east side of Shorewood is more inclined to accept formal walking areas (sidewalks).
7.There has been no talk about trails for the Islands.
Chair Puzak proposed a next step. He asked if the maps shown can be layered in transparencies for
viewing various combinations of data. They could then go over every piece and assess each by asking
the seven evaluation questions and narrow down to the top 5 areas with potential. Commissioner
Themig asked if this should be done before they have even narrowed down the plan. Park Planner
Koegler suggested a timeline to narrow down to a concept map which would go public possibly in
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November 10, 1998
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February 1999. He added that the site evaluations are not just for field review, but would also be used
for assessment all the way through the process.
There was further discussion as to the best approach, whether to proceed according to a larger goal -
or toward specific requests and identified needs. The direction went from evaluating a specific segment
to asking about the bigger picture. There was not a consensus about what should be accomplished nor
what has been accomplished in this meeting. The discussion went from the concept level to specifics
and back to goals.
Chair Puzak proposed an action item of reviewing the survey data on connectivity. Commissioner
Themig pointed out the need to establish goals and objectives. Park Planner Koegler will provide map
overlays at the December 8 meeting. There was also discussion about working around obstacles and
opposition. Administrator Hurm recommended that they not design around a problem until they know
they have to. Park Planner Koegler said that the purpose of a demonstration approach in trail
development is that if you can build successful segment and there is a positive response, you may no
longer have some of the current problems with later development. The subject of dealing with
easement problems was also discussed.
Park Planner Koegler asked the Park Commission how he and staff can assist with preparation for the
next meeting. Commissioner Colopoulos suggested that the Commission should make an objective
pass at interpreting data. Commissioner Arnst expressed concern with getting bogged down in
specifics. Commissioner Themig asked for a draft of a goal statement plus a list of specific objectives
(such as safety, connectivity, “dark starry nights”, etc.). Chair Puzak pointed out two unresolved
matters which have been revealed: (1) Connectivity and (2) Potential legal hurdles. There were various
suggestions of possible trail segments that may have no hurdles.
3. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 10:26 p.m.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
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November 10, 1998
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Connie Bastyr
Recording Secretary