051199 PK CC JT MIN
CITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
PARK COMMISSION/CITY COUNCIL COUNCIL CHAMBERS
JOINT MEETING 7:00 P.M.
TUESDAY, MAY 11, 1999
MINUTES
1.CONVENE PARK COMMISSION /CITY COUNCIL MEETING
Co-Chair Arnst called the meeting to order at 7:07 p.m.
A. Roll Call
Present: Co-Chairs Dallman and Arnst; Commissioners Puzak and Themig; Mayor
Woody Love, Council Members Stover and Garfunkel; Administrator Jim
Hurm; City Engineer Larry Brown
Absent: Commissioners Colopoulos and Bensman; Council Members Lizée and
Zerby
B. Review Agenda
There were no changes to the agenda.
2. DISCUSS PARK DEDICATION FEES
This work session was called as a result of Commissioner Dallman’s report to the City
Council following the March 23 Park Commission meeting where the Commission had
discussed and recommended an increase in the Park Dedication Fees. Mayor Love stated
that the City Council wished to revisit the recommendation. He added that the two
concerns are: defining the needs, and; if we have a need, should it be based on a high
impact fee with so few lots available for development.
Council Member John Garfunkel noted his concerns over the amount of discussion about
neighboring communities’ fees. He asked what the increase would mean dollar wise and
what is the actual need. Just doing it because we can is not a good policy. He also stated
that this is one more expense that can reduce a property’s affordability.
Commissioner Themig explained that the initial discussion came up earlier in
conversation about needs for Freeman Park and he agreed that a lot of conversation did
involve other municipalities. He said it was a mistake not to include the issue of need in
the discussion with the recommendation. Commissioner Dallman said there were about
300 buildable lots in the city, which at the present rate that would add an average of
$3,000 for parks per year for 10 years. When it’s gone, it’s gone.
Park Commission/City Council Meeting
Tuesday, May 11, 1999
Page 2
Commissioner Puzak added that the discussion to raise Park Dedication fees followed
two sessions of “sticker shock” over what it would cost to put in a scaled down bathroom
facility at Freeman. That is just one item in a single park and it would have depleted all
funds. It was depressing to see that all funds would be spent on just the first item of the
wish list.
Council Member Stover asked if other funding resources were discussed. Puzak said that
the timing of a decision about Park Dedication fees is sensitive with the development of
the Senior Housing property. The Park Commission had considered that one of the
alternative ways to get a concession/restroom/storage facility is to see if the developer
would build it in lieu of paying a fee, since his cost to build the structure would likely be
half of what the City would pay to contract it out.
Council Member Stover asked if a long term funding solution had been discussed. Puzak
replied that the practice that had been followed for about 5 years is of collecting user
fees, which would only cover maintenance and some minor amenities. Dallman added
that the role of the Park Foundation is fund raising and this is also being discussed. The
Park Commission is just in the process of identifying a policy on park user fees, but large
expenses (such as re-building soccer fields, etc.) will also need to be addressed.
Co-chair Arnst summarized that the Park Commission knows that funding through Park
Dedication Fees is running out. User fees are not offsetting our costs. With that in mind
they knew they needed to do something about rising costs and depleting resources. The
Commission would not be in disagreement of other ideas.
Mayor Love recommended looking at sustainability and offered a suggestion. Since
Shorewood is running out of undeveloped property, a better solution might be a small
impact fee charged at the point of turnover of any property within the City. Depending
on legislative authority, the City could attach a fee at the time of homesteading. If it were
a percentage of the sale price, it would ride with inflation. Stover said it is an on-going
resource, which is why it peaks her interest.
Dallman sited the example of Hilton Head, which imposes a title transfer fee tax. Love
added that in terms of building amenities (not the general fund), it may be a good idea.
Administrator Hurm said there is the Operating Budget and Capital Improvement Fund.
This would be a third funding category. The big question for parks is depreciation now
that the huge needs aren’t there as much since the parks are essentially developed. The
Operating Budget can cover operating costs and the CIP is for improvements.
Puzak noted that part of this discussion is because of a need for trail funds. There have
been two walks so far with positive support, yet funding is not determined. Part of the
reason for the increase was to meet a need for trails. The need is developing and there is
strong support in at least two trail segments. Stover asked if the cost of a trail is known.
Park Commission/City Council Meeting
Tuesday, May 11, 1999
Page 3
Puzak said no, because it will depend on individual project needs for landscaping, dealing
with obstacles, etc.
Puzak added that, while Shorewood is approaching a mature development phase, it is at
an immature capital amenities phase (i.e. no public flush toilet at any park). He said the
other point is in the data and a survey, which indicate that people do support parks and
feel they have a high value in the community. Themig noted that they also said
Shorewood has adequate park space. Enhancements and sustaining amenities are now
the main concern.
Mayor Love sited the example of Excelsior, which is completely developed and relies on
income from other sources for park costs. One funding source is through parking fees.
There was some discussion about how that may work for Shorewood. Council Member
Garfunkel agreed that this is a good time to look for other options.
Puzak pointed out that, when spread over a 30-year mortgage, the additional park
dedication fee is very affordable. Dallman added that affordable housing is wiped out
already because of the cost of lots in Shorewood. Mayor Love said he has never been
against impact fees. His concern is that the proposed increase is a hefty amount. Puzak
countered that, without an increase, the City would run out of park improvement funds
after buying the last key amenity at Freeman. Garfunkel said that even a million dollars
isn’t going to go far. This aside, there has to be another solution.
Co-chair Arnst summarized that it seems the Council is not comfortable with what the
Commission has come up with and that they need to explore other options. Mayor Love
said they are not comfortable with the large increase. This matter, however, has captured
the Council’s attention, not just about the fees, but about the problem of limited funding
for parks.
Engineer Brown read notes from City Planning Director, Brad Nielsen. The statutes that
allow the City to impose impact fees gives authority to base the amount on a percentage
of the value of raw land not developed land. Each parcel would require an assessor’s
appraisal. A newly created lot has little to offer until after it is divided. It would be
tough for staff to advise on the cost, based on value. Puzak said this adds to a whole
different number. It is a technical issue that would net less money, depending on the
situation. Brown suggested that if the City uses a percent system, then limit it to division
of 3 lots or more. When less than 3, use a flat fee.
Arnst pointed out that this is still not addressing sustainability, even if we change this
policy. Stover added that the City needs to find a way to add to park funds after all of the
land is developed. Garfunkel had another concern as a property owner with the fairness
of a sudden change from $1,000 to possibly $7,500 for park dedication fees.
Commissioner Themig asked if the Council would favor an increase of any kind? Mayor
Love suggested that if averaged out, $1200 to $1500 is fair. Stover added that the present
Park Commission/City Council Meeting
Tuesday, May 11, 1999
Page 4
fee amount has been the same for a while and she does not object to a small increase
because of inflation, etc. Garfunkel agreed.
Arnst brought up the point that the initial motion was for a flat fee of $1500. Mayor
Love said that amount doesn’t send up alarms, but we still have to role up our sleeves to
come up with a long term funding solution. Arnst suggested checking into turnover fees
and parking stickers for non-residents. Love said that $5 for a parking sticker is not too
high. Hurm said the practicality of that idea is questionable. And Themig added that
Shorewood parks are not a destination point like Hennepin Parks or the lake. Our parks
are more of a basic service we should be providing. Puzak said from coaches’
perspective, it becomes a problem of kids being dropped off. Arnst said a parking fee is
still something to explore.
Puzak asked about increasing funding to parks from the general fund. Hurm said it is at
zero for this year, but will hopefully go to $10,000 after that. Puzak said we have zero
ability to raise money and asked for change in the zero funding from the General Fund if
we can’t see a change in Park Dedication fees. The other thing is: if we don’t fund the
parks by new development, it may be through increasing taxes on residents. He would
rather have new residents help with next amenity. Garfunkel pointed out the other danger
of no guarantee that the 300 lots will sell. Stover asked about the role of the Park
Foundation. Love said that is one resource but we still need to look for others.
Mayor Love said that he appreciates the needs, both long term and immediate. He asked
about the idea of having Eagle Crest help with the structure at Freeman. Themig said it
still might be an option and needs further exploration. Puzak said it has been on the to do
list for 4-5 years. Funding is flat and cost is going up so we are further away now than 5
years ago. Love asked how do we get that done this year. Arnst said Eagle crest is
willing to bid on it. Brown pointed out that any developer is going to bid at profit or just
say it’s not worth it to them. Puzak said that a higher park dedication fee would have
helped in this case. Stover said it would be different if it were a developer bringing in
high-priced homes. This is to be affordable and any cost increase would be passed on to
the buyer.
There was further discussion about the role of the Park Foundation in helping with
improvements and the need to make the public more aware of the issue of limited funds
for parks in Shorewood. Love asked what other cities do when park dedication fees are
not an option. Hurm said that some don’t do as well at maintaining their parks. Those
who do, have help from civic organizations. He was not aware of others charging a
turnover fee, but it is an interesting idea.
Dallman explained that the building at Freeman has been a major topic of Park
Foundation meetings and it always comes down to other questions of how, who, what,
when, etc. They have tried to involve the sports organizations and have considered
fundraisers. It just hasn’t been able to get off the ground. Hurm suggested that another
approach is to go to sports organizations for another user fee for sustainability funds.
Park Commission/City Council Meeting
Tuesday, May 11, 1999
Page 5
Engineer Brown said that he has a bid from the same contractor whom did the existing
shelter at Freeman. The City cannot accept it as bid, but it is a good estimate of cost.
Themig said the high cost of park buildings is just a reality that says we need to look to
other sources of revenue
Mayor Love suggested an approach that involves other civic organizations such as the
Chamber of Commerce and recommended beginning with the concept of a building at
Freeman. Arnst said the Park Foundation has a broader role than this building, which is
to be a champion of the parks. We need that body to handle some of the “nuts and bolts”
matters of parks—one to handle the ongoing public relations aspect, as well.
Love said he would like to see regular meetings with the Park Commission and Council
and to be in touch with issues of parks. The Council appreciates the problem and wants
to look for other solutions and be part of the process. He asked staff to look at the other
options that have been discussed.
Hurm asked if there was a consensus on an amount of $1500 for the park dedication fee.
Love said he could support that, but is not sure of a consensus. Garfunkel said that some
impact fees can go up with costs and Love added that the Council could support an
impact fee and would like to work with the Park Commission on solutions. Stover added
that a disagreement with the first proposal does not mean they do not agree with some
kind of increase.
3. REPORT ON TRAIL WALKS TO DATE
Themig asked if the City Council has had feedback about trails from the community.
Love said the petition opposing the segment along Howards Point Road is the main
response. Stover added there is an occasional letter. Love said it is a tribute to the
process.
Garfunkel asked if the Smithtown segment connects to a Victoria trail. Arnst explained
that the Victoria extension does not exist yet, but it is in their trail plan. Hurm said the
videotaped copies of the trail walks are available. The Smithtown walk was positive.
Garfunkel commented that his comfort level goes up when he sees public support for a
segment. If people want it, he’s fine with the idea.
Arnst added that the Vine Hill walk included about 80% of homeowners along the trail
frontage and all were supportive. Puzak said the Park Commission was pleased and
surprised that everyone who came out was in support and there was a good turnout. The
perception is that those two segments are strongly supported.
Garfunkel pointed out that we do not want the attitude that people feel they can’t do
anything about it. Arnst stated an example of one resident who began with words like
“fight” and “battle,” but became part of the process and has changed. Another resident
Park Commission/City Council Meeting
Tuesday, May 11, 1999
Page 6
along Smithtown was concerned about trees and he joined the walk and ended up being
content with the process. Themig made the point that the Park Commission is not
advocating one link over another, but will listen to public response and input.
Garfunkel said there was opposition at the open house from people who did not attend
walks. He asked what happened to the opponents in the process. We want to make sure
folks don’t feel that they can’t fight city hall. The process is very friendly. Love pointed
out that a friendly process could turn people around. Garfunkel told the Commission he
wants them to try to engage those people who were opposed earlier in the process.
Stover said that some people don’t care or want to be involved. Love added that we at
least want to make sure they are informed. Themig said they would keep them informed
with letters. Stover said all should be contacted so those who attended don’t feel left out.
It was agreed that the City Council has a recommendation still standing for an increase in
Park Dedication Fees and can carry on with this added information. They are committed
to work on these problems with the Park Commission and will reply after further
discussion. It will be on the next City Council agenda.
4. ADJOURNMENT
The Work Session adjourned at 8:56 p.m.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Connie Bastyr
Recording Secretary