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062299 PK MIN CITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD PARK COMMISSION AND CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS COUNCIL MEETING 7:30 P.M. TUESDAY, JUNE 22, 1999 MINUTES 1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING Co-chair Dallman called the meeting to order at 7:32 p.m. A. Roll Call Present: Co-chairs Dallman and Arnst; Commissioners Bensman, Puzak, Colopoulos, and Berndt (7:37 arrival); Mayor Love; Council members Lizée and Zerby; City Engineer Larry Brown; Police Chief Bryan Litsey Absent: Commissioner Themig; Council members Stover and Garfunkel B. Review Agenda There were no changes to the agenda. Dallman moved and Puzak seconded to approve the agenda. Motion passed 5/0. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. Park Commission Meeting Minutes of June 8, 1999 Arnst moved and Bensman seconded to approve the Minutes as presented. Motion passed 4/0 with Colopoulos abstaining. 3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR There were no matters from the floor. Newly appointed Commissioner, Paula Berndt was introduced to the Commissioners and Council members present. Park Commission June 22, 1999 Page 2 4. REPORTS A. Update on the Parks Regarding Dogs City Engineer Larry Brown explained the problem of unrestrained dogs and uncollected feces of dogs at City parks—especially at Freeman Park—as observed by Public Works employee, Charlie Davis. Charlie had asked for support from the Park Commission in addressing the problem and also had attempted to point out the City’s dog ordinance to some habitual offenders. This has somewhat lessened the occurrences, but Charlie is asking that the Commission consider other tactics as it is difficult to enforce the Pooper Scooper law. Council member Chris Lizée suggested that the sports organizations who use Freeman Park could be asked to discourage families from bringing their dogs when attending games. Mayor Love asked for clarification of the issue. It was noted that the problem is not just within the parks, but in neighborhoods and along the LRT trail. When asked about enforcement, Police Chief Bryan Litsey explained that animal control officers are part-time and it has been tough to retain people for the position. Mayor Love asked if there is enough public awareness of the problem and suggested more communication through the City newsletter. Commissioner Colopoulos offered that from his personal observation, there are people who bring dogs to Freeman for training off-leash, but during non-peak hours. He feels it is a matter of responsible behavior, adding that this has been the best year he has seen in terms of the dog waste problem. Whether the dogs are on or off leash is not a factor in whether people pick up after their dog, but it is more a matter of having a plastic bag available. He suggested installing more mutt dispensers and said we have to consider that dog owners have the right to bring their dog to the park if they subscribe to the rules. The City should do all it can to allow that. Providing mutt mitts will help. Colopoulos also stated that he differs on the comment that there are dog feces “all over the park” and does not see it as a big concern. He added his opinion that it is appropriate for a City employee to call attention to a problem, but inappropriate to suggest policy. Co-chair Arnst said that staff did not ask for a change in policy, but assistance from the Park Commission in addressing the problem. Brown added that if there was a suggestion about policy, it came from himself. Colopoulos said it is still up to the Park Commission, with citizen input to decide policy—employees should assist, not suggest policy. Police Chief Litsey agreed with the use of more signage and mutt mitt dispensers to help people comply and then address through enforcement. Mayor Love said that Council has heard complaints from some people on the issue of dog feces, adding that he does think it is a role of City staff to bring up questions about policy. He does not know how much enforcement goes on and wanted to know more about what kind of a problem it really is. Park Commission June 22, 1999 Page 3 Colopoulos said that dogs are predictable and it is not hard to comply with the rules if you remember the plastic bag. For people who don’t remember, the dispenser is an alternative. The people he sees with their dogs at Freeman in the morning are very good at complying with the rules. There was further discussion about adding more dispensers, especially in the parks. Resident Sara Lassila (5925 Eureka Road) spoke from the floor, introducing herself as a responsible dog owner who bought her house partly because of the great walking areas nearby. She agreed that there is a problem with dog waste, and adding mitt dispensers is a good idea. Her other concern is that a lot of trash is left in Freeman Park from groups who use it. Also she has often walked the park with her dog, equipped with a back pack to pick up bottles, likely left by minors who are drinking there at night. Ms. Lassila said it is a nice park and she would like to see it preserved. She agreed that the ordinance should be enforced, perhaps by imposing a fine. Mayor Love said that if there is an ordinance it should be enforced and suggested explaining the reasons for the City’s dog ordinance in the newsletter. Colopoulos asked to suggest that the sports organizations communicate with their people as well. Commissioner Bensman said that perhaps a letter to each sports organization would help. Colopoulos moved that the Park Commission recommend to the City Council, installation of one dispenser in the north parking lot in close proximity to a sign that describes the dog ordinance. Puzak made a friendly amendment to add two dispensers. Puzak seconded the motion and it passed unanimously. 5. SNOWMOBILE REPORT Police Chief Litsey explained that compared to past reports, the numbers will be typical in terms of enforcement, noting that the department is at a point where they are doing a pretty good job as far as the equipment and manpower available. Litsey commented that he does not want people to have the false impression that the Department can eliminate all problems. Many steps have been taken with education, communication, etc. and the department feels they can handle snowmobile enforcement with the hours and rules as they are. Granted, there will be violators and noise, but if the City is going to allow snowmobiles on the trail, it is probably at the level where things will stay. Mayor Love asked for clarification of the number of hours patrolled. Litsey said it is confusing because of the grant report, but there were actually 162 hours logged. The season was not typical because of low snow levels and a later snowfall season. Colopoulos noted that, because each winter varies, it is hard to judge from one season to the next. Lizée asked for further explanation of how hours were spent and how patrolling was carried out. Litsey further explained, adding that officers were also asked to patrol from squad cars on the roadway. Park Commission June 22, 1999 Page 4 There was discussion about impounding of snowmobiles and the idea of standardized criteria as a baseline, which Litsey said will be easier to track next season with the department’s new computer program. Mayor Love asked how many of the logged hours were done during the day vs. at night and if there were more violations or complaints at night. He asked if there is a trend and wondered if police hours are dedicated at the most needed time. Litsey said they tended to concentrate on weekends and evening hours for patrolling. Colopoulos noted that this is consistent with what the City has asked the police department to do. Also, complaints are more likely in the evenings when people are at home. Mayor Love questioned why there were no alcohol violations. Litsey agreed that it is unusual, adding that they have a strict policy on DWI. Colopoulos asked if the near-zero tolerance has had an affect over the past couple of years. Litsey commented that the snowmobile hours are before bar closing time, where drinking violations occur more in the middle of the night with road traffic. Colopoulos said he is glad the officer is no longer patrolling alone. Litsey said that has been corrected, thanks to the City Council’s decision to add a second sled. The Water Patrol and DNR have sometimes helped with patrolling as well. The sled provided by Shorewood is marked and the second sled will also be marked. Mayor Love pointed out that there are still complaint calls, especially at night. Knowing that the department is doing their job well, perhaps the City may want to consider an earlier curfew hour. Commissioner Berndt agreed that curfew is a little late. Colopoulos and Puzak pointed out that snowmobile times have already been cut back by one hour from what it once was. Litsey said it is hard to know the impact of cutting hours until you actually do it. He has been with the department for 19 years and thinks the enforcement level is about as good as it can get, without putting a lot more money into it. Mayor Love asked Chief Litsey if he could come back with an analysis of enforcement over the number of tickets issued. If we continue with enforcement resources, it would be good to know these things. Litsey will work on that with Officer Keller. There was also discussion about snowmobiles in City parks. Commissioner Berndt had noticed snowmobile traffic at Freeman and asked if there were no signs posted. Colopoulos said the problem is lack of physical barriers to the park and suggested a temporary barrier. Litsey will review the data and send a memo for the first City Council meeting in August. Council member Zerby asked Litsey when he would need input from the City about enforcement changes in order to include it in the department’s budget. Litsey said, depending on grant money, it would help to have more overtime money in order to plan on a second officer patrolling the trail. A timeline for grant money is not currently known. 6. DISCUSSION OF FREEMAN PARK MULTI-PURPOSE BUILDING, TRAILS AND SKATE PARK “PACKAGE” TO CITY COUNCIL Park Commission June 22, 1999 Page 5 Commissioner Puzak explained that in working on a number of major projects for a long time, the Park Commission has arrived at three things they would like to accomplish. In order to move ahead, it is now time to focus our energy and get more people involved— the community, Council, staff—everyone must be involved. He recommends that the City focus on these jobs by making them a high priority and giving them high visibility. Puzak acknowledged that the City Council has many other things to address, but he sees these as important amenities to the City. He asked that the Commission and City get excited about a “Summer Blitz” program, pool all of its resources, and go for it. Commissioner Bensman pointed out that it is the numbers at bottom of column (budget) that get us stuck. Mayor Love suggested three areas to look at for funding; Capital Improvement Program, park user fees, and private donations. If the Council can see a revenue stream that is reasonable, we can get things going. Mayor Love said he liked the idea of a blitz, and agreed that there will be other issues to focus on, stating his intent is to work with the Park Commission toward their goal. These are the types of amenities that people can relate to. Colopoulos noted that the Commission has considered the idea of inter-fund borrowing which is what we need the City Council’s help with. Puzak added that the Commission has developed 3 good ideas and has done fundamental research, but does not know how to get them going. The fear has been, if we recommend this, then other things will have to wait. The question now is how the Commission and City Council can work together to get it done. Mayor Love said he would like to meet with a representative of the Park Commission and staff. He has talked with the City Finance Director about the concept and asked him to put some criteria together. Taking a look at what we can anticipate, based on policies in place, will allow us to see where to go from there. Love asked about the role of the Park Foundation. Commissioner Dallman said they are willing to seek donations, but have not yet had a solid idea of what they were aiming for in dollar amounts or in final results. They are willing to do something, just frustrated at not having a concept to present to potential sponsors, etc. Mayor Love also suggested approaching the Excelsior Area Chamber of Commerce (stressing the word, “Area”) for generating excitement. He cited the Chamber’s brick-selling program as an example of involving the community. Co-Chair Arnst roughly estimated the three projects to cost around $540,000 pointing out that some money is already there, which means they are not starting at zero. She asked what would be first step. Bensman suggested that because people have supported certain trail sites, those should not be delayed in the process. Commissioner Puzak pointed out the problem with limited resources of staff, as well. While one project is being addressed, it leaves others vulnerable. The whole City will be asked to pull hard in these directions. Park Commission June 22, 1999 Page 6 Engineer Brown pointed out that building plans for a park structure at Freeman have been in place for number of months, but he has been hearing mixed messages from individuals as different ideas come about. He is currently following through with the Chaska Building Center to pare down the plan as last discussed and preferred by the Park Commission. He said that engineering is not a problem since the City has a consultant. Delays would be a result of the process involved in bidding, approval, etc.—and not so much because of staff time. As far as the question about State Aid funds for trails, they would require an 8 foot width which is 2 feet wider than what has been considered so far. This does not eliminate the possibility of using roadway funds, however. Council member Zerby commented that hesitation about the building has been due to sticker shock, not because of a problem with the building plan. Funding issues have caused the project to get off track. Brown said the price tag depends on what kind of building the Park Commission wants. Mayor Love said the point is, if you know what you need, now and for the future, you have to go with the lowest responsible bid. Commissioner Bensman went back to the issue of a time line, pointing out that the proposed projects are not all equal in the amount of time involved. A blitz could be started by making an announcement to the community while continuing to move along with whatever is needed in the process. Mayor Love said he didn’t think they have to choose between a park building and trails. Colopoulos added that if we said to go ahead with all three projects, trails would jump out ahead. That does not mean we wouldn’t still accomplish all three. Bensman pointed out that trails are different because it is a promise that has been made to community. If the three projects are lumped all together, trails need to stay in the forefront because of the level of public trust in fulfillment. Colopoulos agreed that the Park Commission is obligated to continue with trails. Arnst said this agenda item is looking for consensus from Park Commission on the blitz idea and support from the City Council of creative financing ideas and public relations help. Puzak explained how this approach sends a clear signal that these are things we want to do and all three in a package can proceed faster. Mayor Love said if the Commission can have something to Council by the second week of July, they can get going on it. With the community blitz idea, it brings in public interest for skate park support as well. Puzak added that a blitz gives a solid timeline and clear progress. Arnst credited Engineer Brown for doing more than his part, saying that it is the Park Commission which has been dragging it’s feet. Puzak agreed that the slowness has nothing to do with staff—the Commissioners have been dealing with sticker shock. They thanked Brown and apologized for having sent a mixed message. Park Commission June 22, 1999 Page 7 Arnst asked for a motion. There was discussion about the content of a motion. Brown cautioned about careful timing of an announcement so not to create misconceptions. The Park Commission has made a commitment to be sensitive to citizens on park issues. Puzak agreed, adding that they must go through due process. Several details need to be worked out, but we can announce that these are the goals. Bensman suggested forming an agreement rather than a formal motion. Dallman asked about the timing of a meeting with neighbors of the Covington/Vine Hill trail site and plan availability. Brown suggested they meet with residents on July 13 from 6 to 7:30 p.m. and convene for a regular meeting at 8:00 p.m. There was discussion about the concrete vs. blacktop issue and how to present options for that meeting. Puzak moved that the Park Commission ask the City Council to help join the forces of the City Council, Planning Commission and staff to accomplish the following community amenities: ? Two Trail segments—Smithtown west of the LRT and Covington / Vine Hill ? Freeman Park Concession stand, including flush toilets and picnic shelter ? Skate park Colopoulos seconded the motion. There was discussion about stating a time frame and the inclusion of the word “blitz” within the motion. The motion was amended to: Puzak moved that the Park Commission ask the City Council to help organize and support a community blitz, focusing the energy of the City Council, Planning Commission, Park Commission and staff to accomplish the following community amenities by the end of year: ? Two Trail segments—Smithtown west of the LRT and Covington / Vine Hill ? Freeman Park Concession stand, including flush toilets and picnic shelter ? Skate park Colopoulos seconded. The motion passed 6/0. Brown verified that it is to be recommended to the City Council at their next meeting in the Park Liaison report. Mayor Love encouraged more Commissioners to attend the Council meeting in support. Arnst asked about the next step for the blitz. Love suggested that he would like to meet with a representative of the Park Commission, City Finance Director Al Rolek, and staff to look at ideas before bringing plans to the City Council for vote. Colopoulos agreed that the Commission should quickly identify existing funds and follow through with communication plans for trails segments simultaneously. We need to finalize a plan for an execution strategy. Mayor Love said he would appreciate discussion about other funding sources, such as fundraisers, etc. Co-chair Arnst said it will be on the next meeting agenda. Love said this will give the City Council the tools they need to proceed. Park Commission June 22, 1999 Page 8 (Commissioner Bensman left and was absent for the balance of the meeting.) 7. FURTHER CONSIDERATION OF PARK & TRAIL CIP Arnst noted the $200,000 balance shown for a park building budget in 1999. Brown explained the shift of dollars as a result of rearranging of priorities with the postponement of the Cathcart warming house and hockey skating area. He also raised the question of whether the sports organizations would be able to bear the projected expense for maintenance fees plus surcharges when we do not have a solid history of their financial support to it back up. He also pointed out that the 1999 figures include $10,000 in internal borrowing. Arnst asked about the status of the foul ball netting which is allotted $4,500 for 1999. Brown said that the property owners adjacent to field #2 have not signed the agreement to install the netting. Puzak asked if there is a sunset clause. It was suggested to write a final letter with a deadline for approval, after which it would be removed from the CIP. Colopoulos suggested a final date of July 13 and it was agreed to cut the project after that. Arnst asked about the Magic Square and if the Commission is not still interested, perhaps that money could be better spent on the other three priorities. Puzak asked if the magic square could be incorporated into the skate park plan. There was a decisive “No.” There was further discussion about including it into the community blitz and it was agreed that a magic square is not as pressing as the other projects, which could possibly add $4,500 more to the blitz funding. Attention was turned to the Funding Source Summary. It was pointed out that the income from Park Dedication Fees has been adjusted to reflect the new rate of $1,500 per buildable lot. Colopoulos suggested an idea for the Organizational Surcharge and a possibility of restructuring the role of the Park Foundation in the financial question. Arnst said it was a good idea and asked him to bring it to the next meeting. Co-chair Dallman pointed out that the Park Foundation has always raised the question of concession sales income and who would benefit by it. He suggested calling the surcharge a Park Foundation donation / concession income and structuring it differently. There was discussion about the name of the Organization Building Surcharge to incorporate all resources, such as “User Fees.” Mayor Love commented that the City of Excelsior issues a permit for use of a concession operation (more for special events). Dallman cited the example of concession operations at Bennett Park, where the sports organization is required to purchase a certain amount of concessions each season. He added that Shorewood still has the question about who is going to run a concession stand. Park Commission June 22, 1999 Page 9 Arnst asked what else needs to be done with the CIP. Brown replied that a very important meeting has to take place about applying costs to concepts. In that meeting we can look at what we have here and see if that is realistic based on what we want to do. Dallman asked about a trail CIP. Brown said those items will be included on July 13. 8. REVIEW AND DISCUSSION OF NEXT DRAFT OF ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION POLICIES, FISCAL POLICIES AND PROPOSED FORMULAS Arnst suggested moving this topic to next meeting. All agreed. Council member Lizée asked about the fee paid by Tonka United Soccer. With 1600 registered kids each spring (and fall), this represents a potential income for user fees. As a soccer mom, Lizée said she would not mind if $5 of her soccer registration fee went to the various Cities where games are played. Puzak agreed as a former soccer parent, that the use of the field has to be worth the cost of a pair of socks to families. The public image has always been that this is a City park and government has to provide. Berndt asked if soccer registration fees now include money for park use. Lizée said it is not broken down in registration costs. Arnst said that Shorewood’s fee is gentle and optional and that is what the Park Commission will be looking at in policy questions at the next meeting. Puzak explained that there is some reluctance to charge children to play games. It is a service the City provides that frankly needs funding. There was discussion that some sports organizations are explaining their high registration fees to players and parents, as partly due to the cost of using City parks. It was suggested that, however the new user fees are structured, it would be important to emphasize the per-player cost for that fee. It was pointed out that some of the sports organizations have built many of their own amenities, which enhance the City parks. And they do give cash and help improve our parks. It is a partnership, and works out well. Colopoulos stated the need to recognize that different organizations have different histories with parks. 9. REVIEW OF TRAIL PROCESS SCHEDULE A. Set Neighborhood Meeting Date For Covington/Vine Hill The Park Commission will meet with residents at a neighbor’s home on July 13 prior to the regular meeting, which will convene at City Hall at 8:00 p.m. Park Commission June 22, 1999 Page 10 B. Set Neighborhood Meeting Date For Enchanted Island Co-chair Arnst explained that Commissioner Themig had asked about scheduling a neighborhood walk for Enchanted Island. After discussion about possible interest in trails, the Commission agreed to Saturday, July 24 at 9:30 a.m. Dallman will not be able to attend. Arnst invited the City Council to attend the neighborhood / trail walk as well. 10. FINAL APPROVAL OF SHOREWOOD PONDS LETTER After brief discussion about the letter, it was agreed that the final draft is fine as approved by motion at the last Park Commission meeting. The letter will be included in the Eagle Crest information presented to prospective buyers. 11. REVIEW TO DO LIST Engineer Brown displayed the building plan for the Freeman Park structure (which was last bid at $200,000) and said he is still waiting for adjusted bids from the Chaska Building Center on a pared down version. Mayor Love asked for clarification on earlier comments about a $400,000 building. Brown explained that an architect who had designed a building based on Park Commission feedback, came in with an inflated bid of over $350,000. Brown then worked with a contractor who went through the plans to itemize the bid, which came out to be $193,000 on the building alone (not including $50,000 for utilities). Dallman asked if the picnic shelter area is big enough. Brown explained that it had been reduced in an effort to stay on budget. Comments have since been made to expand that and the final answers will come out of the next step of determining just how many dollars we have. Brown said he is open to anyone who wants to work with him to explore other ideas. Dallman suggested that adding another 12 feet to the picnic area would not add a great deal to the cost. Puzak suggested doing a bid alternate with both options. Brown asked if he should still pursue bids on the other stepped-down version with Chaska Building Center. (Brown showed a drawing of that version.) The Commission preferred the plan for the architect’s design, commenting that it is going to be there for a long time. Brown clarified his understanding that this is what the Commission desires, and therefore the next step is to go and figure out if the money is there. He said he will not push Chaska Building Center on bidding the other plan and will schedule on the next Planning Commission meeting for a Conditional Use Permit and public hearing. He added that he will begin the process, based on the Council’s possible support, implied in the previous motion, and knowing that the City Council will still have the option to comment. Once the Conditional Use Permit is well underway, Brown will start on the engineering aspect. Park Commission June 22, 1999 Page 11 Mayor Love asked about the cost of adding toilets and recommended adding a third stall to the women’s restroom area. Lizée suggested reducing the storage area to add another stall to the women’s restroom. Puzak asked Brown to put the plan out for bids both ways and then decisions are concrete with real numbers. Arnst asked about the light source for the restroom area. Brown said electricity because there are no windows. There were suggestions for glass block, placed high on the walls. Brown will get the design phase going on the Covington / Vine Hill trail segment. The Smithtown segment has other issues to sort through and will be addressed later. The rest of the To Do list was briefly viewed and Arnst explained that as items are completed, they will be marked with a check for one meeting and then removed from the list after that. 12. OLD BUSINESS There was no old business. 13. NEW BUSINESS A. Badger/Manor Ponds Arnst explained the need for ponds at Badger and Manor Parks to be cleaned up. She has considered the idea of enlisting help from Scouts or other groups who are interested in pond restoration. Mayor Love explained there are a lot of invasive plant species in Badger. It would be a great model project for the City (and perhaps the Watershed District) in pond restoration. Arnst said that if the Park Commission is interested, she will do further research. Puzak replied that he would like the Commission to do something, especially if we do a good job of saying why it is being done and then show what was accomplished, as an example to the community, with a focus on education. Council member Lizée said that Minnewashta Fifth Graders are in their 4th year of a wetland study program. They have obtained grants and studied wetlands. She thought they would be more than willing to participate in order to gain education about restoration of wetlands. Love pointed out that it is pretty grueling work and would need to involve adult work crews as well. Berndt pointed out that it takes a very long time to establish new plants and for clean-up to be apparent. Love added there is a significant cost as well. Puzak said it is all the more reason to do it and educate everyone in the process and to publicize the progress. Mayor Love listed some similar projects in the area, adding support to the idea. Council member Zerby asked if the project would fit with the newly Park Commission June 22, 1999 Page 12 established Land Conservation Environment Committee. Love agreed that there would be overlaps with what the Commission would be doing. B. Park Booklet Co-chair Arnst reported that Commissioner Themig is still interested in creating a booklet about the City’s parks. He will have a first draft prepared by October 1, 1999. C. Sign at Manor Park Where City Hall Was First Located Arnst explained that this was an idea from Commissioner Bensman. Because it is an historic site, she felt it should have plaque, which would also incorporate an explanation of the Shirley Rice garden. Arnst will check with Bensman on her interest in following up on the project. 14. ADJOURNMENT Berndt moved and Colopoulos seconded to adjourn the meeting. Motion passed 5/0. The meeting adjourned at 10:17 p.m. Respectfully Submitted Connie Bastyr, Recording Secretary