091499 PK MIN
CITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
PARK COMMISSION COUNCIL CHAMBERS
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 14, 1999 7:30 P.M.
MINUTES
1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
Co-chair Dallman called the meeting to order at 7:33 p.m.
A. Roll Call
Present: Co-chairs Dallman and Arnst; Commissioners, Puzak, Berndt and Themig;
Administrator Jim Hurm; City Engineer Larry Brown; Council member
Zerby
Absent: Commissioner Bensman
B. Review Agenda
There were no changes to the agenda.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Park Commission Meeting Minutes of August 24, 1999
Puzak moved, Arnst seconded to approve the Minutes as presented. Motion passed
4/0 with Berndt abstaining.
3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
There were no matters from the floor.
4. REPORTS
Administrator Hurm reported on the City Council meeting of September 13. The Council
had asked if the Park Commission has a recommendation on when to fill the vacancy left
by the resignation of Commissioner Bill Colopoulos. If filled now, the position would be
up for reappointment in February 2000. (The terms of Colopoulos and Arnst are due to
expire at the end of 1999.)
Commissioner Dallman asked if the opening would possibly last only 3 months, would it
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September 14, 1999
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make sense to appoint someone for that short of a term. Themig said it seems to be better
to wait until the natural end of the year to fill the position. Puzak and Arnst agreed.
Zerby added that the Council would probably rather go through the appointment process
only once.
Puzak moved that the Park Commission recommend that the City Council does not
fill an interim 3 months for the vacated position of Bill Colopoulos, and do it instead
in February for a three year term. Arnst seconded. There was no further discussion
and the motion passed5/0.
Administrator Hurm also reported that resident, DuaneLaurila came to the council
meeting and said he has been to several county meetings about horses being allowed on
the LRT trail in the winter months. He has the impression that it’s up to the city to allow
or not allow horses on the trail and would like to see Shorewood include horses for trail
use during the winter months.
Hurm checked with KarenBowen of Hennepin County Parks and she reiterated her past
statements that horses are not allowed on the LRT. On the permit it says horses can not
be on the trail. Hurm explained that six years ago, when the County took over the
abandoned rail property, this was an issue. The City lost and horses were eliminated.
Hurm will inform the resident that it is not the City’s prerogative to allow horses.
The topic of a permit for winter use was also discussed at the Council meeting. The City
has until October 15 to apply to the County. The Council would like to meet with
residents who live along the trail to get their input on snowmobile activity and issues. A
comment sheet will be provided for those who can not attend. Berndt asked who is to
oversee the meeting. Hurm said the City Council plans to conduct it as an informal time
to give opportunity to people to express their feelings about snowmobiles and how things
have gone. A date is set for the first Monday in October.
Commissioner Themig asked for an explanation about the winter use permit. Hurm said
that each City must apply for specific use of the trail segment within its boundaries for 5
months of winter. During that time, the County does not patrol or maintain the trail.
Commissioner Berndt asked what will happen if a majority of residents who respond are in
opposition to snowmobiles on the LRT. Hurm replied that the Council would make their
decision accordingly. Puzak asked if the Council would override the work of snowmobile
task force. Hurm stated that the intent is only to get input.
Council member Zerby said he believes the intent is to notice residents along the trail as
well as to put out a public notice of the meeting. The concern is that the task force
recommendations have not been utilized completely, and it is a valid instrument to
maintain.
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September 14, 1999
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Berndt pointed out that residents living along the trail would feel they are more heard in a
small meeting than when it is a larger, public meeting. Puzak stated that he defies the City
Council to not notice that meeting. Hurm said that the meeting would be officially
noticed, as all public meetings must be.
Zerby added that the Council was presented with the report on snowmobile enforcement
for last winter. The Council feels that enforcement is as good as it can get. They want to
get input from residents with that in mind. Puzak agreed that it would be good data.
Engineer Brown reported that the Council also approved the Conditional Use Permit for
the multi purpose building proposed for Freeman Park.
5. REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATIONS REGARDING PARK & TRAIL
CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM
Administrator Hurm reported that in a meeting with the Youth Coalition, a proposal was
made to ask each of the area cities to contribute to the skate park an amount equal to $1
per resident for each city. Matching funds from other community sources will be sought.
For Shorewood’s “per head” contribution, the amount needed is $7,000. The skate park
entry in the Project Schedule therefore, needs to be adjusted from $5,000 to $7,000 and
moved to the year 2000 column. Other items moved from 1999 to 2000 are Park Building
at $200,000 and Sanitary Sewer at $50,000.
Engineer Brown explained that he has asked the Minnesota Department of Transportation
(MnDOT) for $50,000 to make roadway changes in Freeman Park which would allow the
closure of the Highway 7 entrance. MnDOT suggested a submittal of a Cooperative
Agreement be made this winter for 2001 construction. Dallman asked if that means that
MnDOT will give the City $50,000 toward the cost of the parking lot. Brown said yes,
that’s what we are shooting for. Final approval will not be known until the spring of 2000
because it is a lengthy process.
Brown mentioned the option to put temporary barriers up within the park to block traffic
from using the Highway 7 entrance, but noted that it might take away incentive for
MnDOT to help with the solution to a permanent closure. Themig asked if we could
borrow from elsewhere in order to make the improvements more quickly. Brown said the
concept is there, but it is a bit risky since we are not sure of what MnDOT will do.
There was further discussion about temporary options for traffic flow and ways to
maximize safety and keep the dust down for the new neighbors within the senior housing
development. Brown said he will continue to work with MnDOT and notify them of our
intent to apply for the $50,000.
Dallman asked if the $78,000 should be moved to 2001. Brown suggested keeping it in
the year 2000 because information from MnDOT is speculative and there may be
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September 14, 1999
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opportunity to do the work earlier than 2001. Hurm suggested that the figure of $78,000
be raised to $128,000 and then show a $50,000 revenue from MnDOT in the Funding
Source Summary.
Dallman asked if the Freeman parking lot is going to be blacktop. Brown said yes, that is
what was talked about. Dallman asked if a pond would be required. Brown explained
that, according to the draft Stormwater Management Plan, it might not be required when
considered on a regional basis.
Berndt asked how difficult it is to keep up a gravel surface. Brown explained that dust
complaints would be more of a problem than surface maintenance—especially with the
new housing. Themig said he thinks it would be unneighborly to not tackle the problem
next year. Hurm commented that there are some techniques to cut down on the dust, such
as closing a traffic lane and other applications to the gravel surface.
Themig noted that the Park Commission did put forth a recommendation to the City
Council to close that road. Brown said he has put the word out on the street to
contractors who may have bituminous millings to apply to the gravel and there has been
some response. He reminded the Commission that keeping the Highway 7 access open
represents leverage with MnDOT to get the money needed to construct the lot.
The Funding Source Summary was reviewed. $50,000 will be added to the year 2000 as
money from MnDOT. Brown agreed to place it in 2000, but said construction will likely
be in 2001. The Sewer Fund Transfer of $50,000 will be moved to 2000.
Zerby asked if the park dedication fees of $37,000 will be in this year. Hurm said yes,
because it is due at the time the plat is filed. In fact, there will probably end up to be a
little more than $37,000 for the year.
Arnst asked if donations of $10,000 are not anticipated after 2000. Hurm said it has been
built into the Organization Building Surcharge of $10,000 each year. The $10,000 under
Donations in 2000 is the amount that the Foundation has been challenged to raise toward
the building at Freeman.
Arnst pointed out that the title of “Organization Building Surcharge” is misleading and
was to be changed, per previous discussion. Ideas were discussed and it was agreed to
change the name to “Alternative Revenue Sources” in order to be kept generic. Brown
suggested that there be a footnote as to what this is. It was agreed that there should be
some suggestions to provide direction.
The name, “Concession Rental” is to be changed to “Concession Revenue.”
Arnst asked if the amount for Sports Organization Maintenance should increase with time.
Hurm said the reason it is kept at $12,000 is because over the last 5 to 6 years this is
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September 14, 1999
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where it has been. Also, the sports organizations are being challenged in other ways.
There was discussion about increasing the amount with inflation at 3% per year. Brown
explained that the CIP is organized around today’s dollars. He recommended they stay
away from increasing for inflation. Inflation reflects both in the revenues and costs so it’s
a wash. Hurm added that costs vary from year to year. Puzak pointed out that the CIP is
reviewed each year and they would have the opportunity to increase figures if needed. He
recommended they go with staff’s suggestion.
Puzak asked if the “Transfer to General Fund” category could be indicated as the Sports
Organizations’ Maintenance Fee for clarification. Hurm said yes. Dallman explained that
the Park Foundation is challenged to contribute $10,000 and also to fill in as needed.
Arnst moved to accept CIP Project Schedule and Funding Source Summary as
changed in tonight’s discussion. Puzak seconded and the motion passed 5/0.
Funding Summary – Trails
Brown stated that MSA requires a minimum trail width of 10 feet, however, the City can
ask for a variance to 8 feet. For comparison, Commissioner Berndt asked about the width
of the trails in Freeman Park. Brown said they are 6 to 7 feet wide.
Brown explained that, to take advantage of state aid, the City must identify the project to
the State at least 1 year ahead of construction. They would first have to design a project
in order to seek state aid approval. This involves having the design, cost estimates and
rights of way in hand. He cited the example of a plan done by the City of Chanhassen,
which involved considerable expense. Berndt noted that plans have to be done anyway.
Brown said the more costly element is acquisition of easements, which would have to be
done ahead of time.
Brown reported that the trails for Covington and Vine Hill are well underway and they
plan to bid the project out in January or February for next construction season. The
Smithtown west portion is also slated for next year. One question remains regarding past
opposition when trails were considered a few years ago. The City Attorney has someone
examining the rights of way issue. That question needs to be looked at before application
to the state.
Berndt commented that safety is becoming a greater concern along Smithtown. Puzak
asked if there is a point where the road is considered substandard and would be due for
reconstruction. Brown said that today Smithtown is well out of MSA standards, however,
the State will not mandate that the city upgrades. More likely, citizen petition will drive
the need to upgrade. Arnst asked when Smithtown is scheduled to be rebuilt. Brown said
it is book marked at 2001, but was put out as a challenge to address rights of way issues.
Zerby asked if the Smithtown project was split into east and west segments. Brown said
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September 14, 1999
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that out of convenience from a project management standpoint, the walking trail (LRT) is
the division point. From a technical standpoint, the eastern portion is worse than the west
as far as site distance issues and road condition.
Project Schedule
Commissioner Themig noted that we have big project for 2000 (Smithtown west
construction) with no funding. He asked why not shift the trail project to 2001 with the
road improvement to be done at the same time. Brown replied that, from a technical
standpoint, it does make sense to build a trail when the road is ripped up. However, in
previous CIP’s, the road was slated at that time, yet the Park Commission decided to
separate the trail process from the road project.
Puzak pointed out that future trail segments will also be halted until funding sources are
found other than MSA, which comes with a set of standards that make it more
inflammatory to residents. Berndt felt that safety is a primary reason to not wait until
Smithtown is due for road reconstruction. Themig agreed that the safety and increase of
livability should take precedence over politics. He asked where is the leadership from
Council. Zerby replied that he is pro-trail. The Council has been hammering the property
rights issue for a long time. It comes down to a “not-in-my-front-yard” situation.
Puzak replied that this is why we have developed the trail process and it’s working. We
need to build a segment of Smithtown so people can see it and use it, and then in 2002 or
so, we can continue with new funding sources. The Commission is doing the right thing in
the best possible way. He felt they are getting the process going and getting it done
amicably. Arnst added that the Commission must make sure they have a step forward at
each meeting, no matter how small.
Brown stated that we are in design process, so the project schedule is correct. The
outcome of the rights of way issue in not yet known, Design costs are all slated for the
first year in the Project Schedule while waiting on critical information. We don’t know
how long that will take. Themig stated that it is good to hear that we are moving ahead
on the rights of way issue.
Co-chair Arnst suggested that the project schedule description, “Potential projects that
have met with local opposition” should be changed. (The Commission and residents have
not even walked these segments yet.) Dallman suggested eliminating the heading. Then
leave items k, l, and m under “Projects that have been identified as need further study and
are not far enough along for costs estimates.” The Commission agreed.
Puzak pointed out that a group of people asked how to get their street off the map of
potential trails. Since they have walked the island and came up with alternative ideas and
no trail, there should be a distinction for that in the Project Schedule. Dallman suggested
they label project h (Enchanted Island) as “No trail planned at this time” and move it up to
be with project g. Projects needing further study will be those marked i, j, k, l, and m.
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September 14, 1999
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Puzak moved and Berndt seconded to approve the Funding Summary and Project
Schedule dated 8/19/99 as discussed and amended. The motion passed 5/0.
6. TRAILS / FREEMAN PARK MULIT PURPOSE BUILDING
A. Covington/Vine Hill Status–Discuss/recommendation on assessing for
concrete for a segment of trail along Vine Hill Road
Commissioner Puzak suggested formulating the Commission’s recommendation and
presenting a motion to City Council for the ultimate decision. Based on the fact that
concrete is more expensive than bituminous, there is probably a consensus to a base
facility financed with tax dollars. Beyond that, residents can opt to upgrade to meet their
customized requirements. Puzak stated that he recommends, as a matter of policy, that
the City of Shorewood will build bituminous trails that are 8 feet in width. Neighbors may
want to supplement to concrete and the City would accept those if a contiguous string of
neighbors want to get together and be assessed for the upgrade.
Hurm pointed out that there could be areas that are narrower than 8 feet. Puzak said that
we will work around obstacles where needed, but the standard is 8 feet. Themig asked for
discussion about why this is the standard and what about other components of design,
such as retaining walls, etc. Points were made about aesthetics, wearability, cost and
ongoing maintenance.
Dallman asked what is the definition of “contiguous.” Puzak replied that it would depend
on each individual case. The project will be bid both ways and it’s up to neighbors to
figure it out what they want together. Arnst pointed out the possibility that the City of
Minnetonka may plan to upgrade Vine Hill Road in 5 years and the trail investment could
be lost. She agrees with base trail of 8-foot wide and blacktop surface.
As far as other features, Brown stated that the pricing of retaining wall options varies from
time to time. Currently stone and block are almost equal. Themig said this is a case
where we can be amiable to flex with design needs, as long as there is some consistency.
Brown agreed the retaining wall ends up to be a nice feature for residents and the City.
Puzak said the City Council would make the final call. The Park Commission is to meet
with neighbors and make the recommendation.
Dallman brought up the question of having the same or different standards for other
projects such as Smithtown. He thinks the Commission should say the standard is 8 foot
bituminous and that’s it. He doesn’t want to be judge each time someone petitions for a
variation. Themig agreed that there is a consistency issue.
There was further discussion on how to negotiate options for trails and what possible
problems may occur. Puzak pointed out that the Commission has a commitment to work
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September 14, 1999
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with neighbors around design issues, according to the trail process. Themig asked how
that effects the neighbor in the middle of the block who disagrees. He feels it is not fair to
put that pressure on someone to be in that situation.
Themig reviewed the reasons for choosing bituminous as a base; Limited funding, Durable
surface for a trail, It is consistent with other west metro community trails. Brown pointed
out that there are analyses on roads, but not on trails as far as durability. In comparing the
City’s policy for road standards, it would be consistent to allow residents to pick up the
difference in cost if they want a higher standard.
Themig moved to recommend to City Council that the standard surface for trails,
constructed as part of the trail process would be bituminous and 8 foot in width due
to the limited funding, proven durability and consistency with trail construction in
other west metro communities. Residents may petition to exceed the standard, but
will be expected to fund the difference in cost. Puzak seconded and asked for a
friendly amendment that we recognize its suitable durability.
Dallman questioned the use of the word, “petition” and it was suggested to change to the
word “request.” Brown pointed out that the word “petition” is accurate once it reaches
the legal process. It was agreed to leave the statement as is.
There was also discussion about the definition of “contiguous” and who would determine
what qualifies. Brown explained a definition according to public improvements, which
says that for two ends of a street to be designed the same, all those in the middle would
have to comply. Therefore, there is not a resulting “zebra effect.” Puzak stated that the
Commission is here to facilitate and present the best design package to Council. Then it’s
up to them to make the final call.
Themig withdrew his motion, stating that he does not support an option of two
materials.
Hurm suggested a statement as part of the recommendation could say that the intent is to
have a continuous project. Variations and standards for a series of properties can be
considered. Themig asked that someone else restate the motion. The Commission
worked together on the wording of the motion.
Puzak moved to recommend to the City Council that the standard surface for trails
constructed as part of the trail process would be bituminous and 8 foot in width.
This basic standard is recommended for the following reasons: limited funding,
suitable durability and consistency with trail construction in other west metro
communities. The intent is to have a consistent appearance. Variations in
standards for a series of properties will be considered. Residents may petition to
exceed the standard, but will be expected to fund the difference in cost.
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September 14, 1999
Page 9
Themig made a friendly amendment that requests[Variations in standards for a
series of properties] will be considered provided affected property owners are in
agreement. Puzak accepted the amendment. Themig seconded. There was no
further discussion and the motion passed 5/0.
B. Smithtown West Status
This topic has been discussed with the Project Schedule under item 5.
C. Plan of Action for Fall
Engineer Brown reported that staff has requested that the landmark is to be bidding in
spring. Because there are many things on the table he asks that we make spring 2000 a
deadline, but allow freedom to not set specific dates. Arnst asked about the attorney’s
schedule on rights of way issues. Brown said they expect a report at the next Council
meeting. Arnst asked that the attorney be notified that the Park Commission is also very
interested in the outcome of their study.
Arnst also asked about the status of the DNR grant. Themig said applications are due on
th
February 28 of each year. He hopes to have the application prepared by October or
November.
Co-chair Dallman asked about the status of the Freeman Park building. Brown explained
that he has followed through with the plan as approved by the Park Commission and City
Council, with the recommendation to include three stalls in the restroom and add glass
block for natural lighting in the bathrooms. The building will be constructed with a block
base and lap siding. He explained that the primary concept for the building (which did not
show modifications later made by the Park Commission) was used for demonstration at
the Comprehensive Plan open house meetings.
Dallman asked if there will be an exterior door for the store room. (9:50 p.m. – Council
member Zerby exits.) Brown showed a drawing indicating that the building has been
extended 5 feet more for storage and has an extension of the canopy area. Themig
clarified that the extension of the canopy area was a Park Commission recommendation
and the additional bathroom stall and glass block skylight was a Council request.
Brown said that he talked to Don Sterna, the consulting engineer about having a design
for final Council approval in time for their next meeting. They will present a request for
Council approval to move ahead with the final design.
TH
7. PREPARE FOR SEPTEMBER 28 MEETING WITH PARK
FOUNDATION
Hurm explained that a letter was sent to members of the Park Foundation to notice the
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September 14, 1999
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upcoming meeting. A draft letter from the Park Commission was reviewed for discussion
and consensus about what to send prior to that meeting. Hurm also asked for feedback on
changes to the visual presentation for the upcoming meeting.
The presentation included a review of the Park Foundation bylaws and purpose, a graphic
showing spending for park maintenance, sources of funding, and the trend in capital.
Themig said it is good information to show why the sports organizations’ contributions
are needed. However, the purpose should be to show the larger picture, not all the details
that have been included.
Puzak added that it might create problems to point out the discrepancy between donations
of the different organizations. Themig agreed, saying that is a whole separate issue, which
is not for this purpose. Dallman suggested using a summary of base costs for all
organizations so none are offended, and compare that with the total revenue to
demonstrate the need.
Hurm asked about how to incorporate the issue of rink expenses. Dallman said that’s a
good one to show to the hockey association. Totals for ice costs can be included on a
separate line for the Foundation meeting, but not labeled as hockey expenses. Dallman
recommended using a summary of park needs for this meeting and explain that the
Commission will meet on an individual basis with each of the organizations.
Themig asked how to present the funding source ideas. Puzak said it should be in a hand-
out for a separate mailing with a cover letter to suggest that the meeting is to help us with
developing even more ideas. Arnst stressed that the goal of the meeting should be at the
top of the letter. It must be made clear that the purpose of the meeting is: 1) To review
the financial history of park operations, and 2) To set goals for the Park Foundation.
Arnst said it is important to keep in mind that the Foundation is separate from the Sports
Organizations. Themig agreed they do not want to confuse maintenance fees for sports
with other fund raising matters. There was further discussion and Puzak summarized the
focus to; 1) Review the financial condition, 2) Show the plans for the parks and the need
to raise more money, and 3) Choose the best individuals and organizations to work on the
fund raising ideas that have been identified.
Arnst suggested that the introduction at the meeting would be that we are here because
we have funding issues. The next step is to review the Foundation’s history and the
Park’s financial history. Then consider the brainstorm ideas, and finally, see where the
Foundation fits into the picture. Puzak suggested that it comes down to saying, “This is
where we are (graphics), this is where we need to be (goal), this is how we close the gap
(action item). Then ask who can do what.
Dallman recommended that Arnst will put it all together and chair the meeting with the
Foundation. The Foundation will be sent the brainstorming list with the cover letter.
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September 14, 1999
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Themig suggested that the graph for Capital Improvements should represent also what our
plan is for 5 years, to show this is a long-term problem. He also asked that they include
trails. There was further discussion about how to do the graphics for the presentation.
Brown asked if it is fair to incorporate trails, since that would be asking the Foundation to
support more than just the parks. Themig said the need for funding trails would be a good
thing to include so they know that there is more going on than just the parks. Puzak
thought that trails should be mentioned, but not to give excessive data.
Brown recommended they start out with a beginning balance, add revenues over the five
next years, and then plot the expenditures on the same graph. Themig agreed that this
would give the long-term, bigger picture. Puzak added that it would show the ever
widening gap between revenue and expenditures for the future.
8. OLD BUSINESS
A.Review of a Document for Transferring Ownership of Park
Improvements
It was agreed that the draft document called Acceptance and Indemnification Agreement
is accepted as prepared and presented.
B.Review of To Do List
The Commission scanned through the To Do list, naming items which have been
completed. They asked that those be marked with the date of completion, rather than
removed from the list. Revisions to the list will be made by staff, with an updated version
to be presented at the October meeting.
Engineer Larry Brown stated that he will have a report on the status of the Old Market
Road crossing for the October meeting.
C.Consider Replacement of Chuck Cochran as Park Commission
Representative to the Park Foundation
It was agreed that a Representative to the Park Foundation may be appointed at a later
date, since this is not a pressing need.
D.Review Recycling Memo
Commissioner Berndt stated that she acknowledges the cost of recycling at parks. While
it is known that aluminum is sorted out of the park trash, she would like to check on ways
to dispose of plastic. Commissioner Puzak commented that the plastic is likely burned
along with the trash at a facility where alternative energy is produced, so it is not
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September 14, 1999
Page 12
completely gone to waste.
E.Player Benches at Manor Park Baseball Fields
There was discussion about the source of this request. There being no known need or
interest in having benches at the Manor Park ball fields, it was agreed to scratch this item
from the list of planned park improvements.
F.Manor Park—Sign Where the First City Hall was Located
Tabled to a later meeting date when Commissioner Bensman will be present.
9. NEW BUSINESS
A.Designate Liaison to City Council Meeting for October to Replace Bill
Colopoulos
Commissioner Paula Berndt will attend the October City Council meetings as Park
Commission representative.
B.Designate Liaison to Planning Commission to Replace Bill Colopoulos
Administrator Hurm explained that Park representation at Planning Commission meetings
is typically on an as needed basis. It was agreed that a liaison will be appointed as the
need occurs.
10. ADJOURNMENT
Puzak moved and Themig seconded to adjourn the meeting. Motion passed 5/0.
The meeting adjourned at 10:44 p.m.
Respectfully Submitted,
Connie Bastyr
Recording Secretary