061300 PK MIN
CITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
PARK COMMISSION MEETING COUNCIL CHAMBERS
TUESDAY, JUNE 13, 2000 7:30 P.M. (AFTER SKATE PARK TOURS)
MINUTES
1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
Chair Arnst called the meeting to order at 7:47 P.M.
A. Roll Call
Present: Chair Arnst; Vice-chair Themig; Commissioners Dallman, Puzak, Berndt, Bix and Young;
Director of Public Works Larry Brown; Acting City Administrator Brad Nielsen and
Council Liaison Scott Zerby
Also Present: Mayor Woody Love and Council Member Chris Lizée
B. Review Agenda
Engineer Brown asked to include discussion regarding the mailing to residents of Smithtown Road, west of
LRT. It was added under “REPORTS” and marked as item “E.”
Themig moved, Puzak seconded to approve the agenda as amended. Motion passed 7/0.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Park Commission Meeting Minutes of May 23, 2000
Bix moved, Themig seconded to approve the minutes as submitted. Motion passed 7/0.
3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
There were none.
4. REPORTS
A. Report on City Council Meeting of June 12, 2000
Acting Administrator Nielsen reported that there were six Planning items before the Council. One was a
preliminary plat for Smithtown Meadows. The Planning Commission recommended approval with a
requirement for a trail through the cul de sac to the LRT trail. (The proposed street is 400 feet west of
Eureka Road just off of Smithtown.) Council approved the preliminary plat with the condition and will ask
the Park Commission for a recommendation on the trail.
Nielsen reviewed the rest of the Council agenda. He said the suggested name of Eddy Station for the
Freeman Park shelter was well received. It was also reported that bids have come in and will be presented
for approval by Council. A financing plan has been worked out by Council and will leave park funds in the
black.
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JUNE 13, 2000 – PAGE 2
B. Report on Land Conservation Environment Committee Activities
There will be a report at the next Park Commission meeting.
C. Multi-Purpose Bid Update
Engineer Brown reported that the bid tabulation was presented. One contractor, VSI, is somewhat lower
than the rest ($307,000 vs an average of $350,000). Representatives for the contractor has indicated that
they have misinterpreted what was involved for the bid on the canopy portion. Brown explained that it is
customary to go back to the bidder and offer to return their bid security and let them out of their bid, and
then seek bidder #2. It avoids a miserable job. The contractor is to call staff in the morning to respond.
Meanwhile, staff prepared a finance plan based on the amount from the #2 bidder. Brown reviewed the
budget projection chart and explained that they propose to borrow from the Sanitary Sewer Fund and pay it
back with interest. Over a 10-year period, the fund balance would be $80,314. He also reviewed
individual revenue items, adding that the General Fund commitment of $10,000 will need to be reviewed as
time goes on.
Puzak asked if the City is going to take action without knowing the actual bid outcome. Brown explained
that staff prepared the finance plan before the Council meeting for their consideration at last night’s
meeting. Council approved the concept, realizing it is a projection. They chose not to award bids to allow
time to do a thorough check of references and work history. This is just a report as to where we stand. If
everything looks okay, Council will accept bids. For now they have committed to the principal of the
finance plan.
Themig said he is concerned if Council approves a bid and gets committed to a finance plan before details
are worked out. We are committing for future park commissions to fund this payment. Brown said that is
a good point in that the pressure is on, yet the Council and Commissions have committed to go for the
prime bidding window, which has a 30 or 60 day limit. Themig asked to discuss details at the next
meeting.
Mayor Love pointed out that the Council and Park Commission have accepted the idea of user fees. as one
funding mechanism that is going to be used. The question is what those funds will be used for and he
thinks Eddy Station is where Council would like to see it go.
Commissioner Bix asked about future funding if something happens. Mayor Love said we may have to
make adjustments; and the reality is that it is a huge commitment for the Park Foundation and City
Council. It’s a challenge, but one we should have out there. The alternative is to do nothing.
Commissioner Dallman noted that the estimate of sports participants is low at 1700 so the user fee estimate
is conservative. He also believes that concessions would be able to be at least $3,000. He is comfortable
with the finance plan and said the Council should sign the paper and go with it.
Themig asked about the current balance and available funding for a skate park or other items on the CIP.
Nielsen said that $7,000 of the $200,000 is committed to a skatepark.
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JUNE 13, 2000 – PAGE 3
D. Vine Hill Road/Covington Road Trail Report
Engineer Brown reported that the contractor has been proceeding along at a very good pace. The first day
there were some hang-ups but they are now making strong progress. Some residents have even
complimented the contractor.
Brown pointed out on a drawing of the north end of the Vine Hill segment where a property owner objects
that his portion of the easement goes to mid-road. It was discussed by Council and determined that it is
best that the end portion of the trail be stopped short of this property. Council directed the City’s attorney
to proceed with right-of-way acquisition for this portion. It will take at least 90 days so it would be
constructed at a later date. The City is committed to moving ahead with trail project.
Commissioner Themig asked about other rights-of-way. Brown explained the type of road category the
Vine Hill Road fits into and as such, the legal opinion is that it does not constitute ownership. Puzak asked
if this meant a loss of money for the City for the 250 feet to be removed from the project. Brown said the
City would pay less without doing that segment.
Arnst asked if neighbors would be notified as to why the project is stopping. Brown said that would be
done as the project proceeds.
E. Discuss Mailing and Response Card For Smithtown West Residents
Discussion was postponed until after item #8.
5. DISCUSS SKATE PARK SITE VISITS
A. Discussion of Design Issues and Recommending to Proceed to City Council With
Improved Design for Highway 7 Old Wayside Rest Site
The Commission reported that their tours of two area skate parks earlier that evening were helpful and
informative, in spite of the rain.
Chair Arnst reviewed the background of the City’s commitment to direct energies toward the goal of a
skate park at the Highway 7 site. They have since had two site visits and have met with neighbors to learn
their concerns. The Commission hopes to mitigate issues as well as possible. The three common issues
are:
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Safety – because of the closeness to Highway 7
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Accessibility to the site and visibility
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Potential of increased traffic through the Seasons development
Arnst asked for input from the Commissioners and those in the audience.
Puzak gave praise for the overall progress of the project and those involved. He said he feels responsibility
to effectively address the concerns of additional traffic through the private road of the Seasons
neighborhood. He showed the latest design for a one-way route in the parking area to hopefully divert
traffic away from the Seasons entrance. He also pointed out plans for a large burm to block views and
noise from the highway for those residents, which will enhance the whole property and improve things for
everyone.
Other points made by Puzak were:
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JUNE 13, 2000 – PAGE 4
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The pathway to access Highway 7 has been repositioned and its surface is no longer asphalted.
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He reviewed the three points contained in a letter he had sent to the Commissioners and many of the
parents and kids about the three remaining questions.
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Police Chief, Bryant Litsey has said he likes this site for its visibility, and believes it is a good
opportunity for officers to interact positively with kids.
Those in attendance were asked to comment.
Steven Bailey (19660 Sweetwater Curve) said that he has just started skateboarding this winter and has
been mostly to Chanhassen. Most kids there are young teens who can’t drive so he does not think there is a
concern about traffic. Also, he could cross Highway 7 to get to the park without trouble. He would have
to cross even more dangerous intersections to get to the park in Chanhassen. He doesn’t think skaters
would cause trouble, especially if there is a stated consequence such as losing the use of the park. (Steven
in 14 years old.)
Matt Pike, 6880 Minnewashta Parkway, Excelsior, spoke next. Commissioner Puzak introduced Matt as
the inspiration to this idea. Matt referenced a recent article in the local paper, which expressed some
concerns about the volume of kids the park would draw and the traffic problems. He said that some
information was biased. Specifically, he has never seen 150 kids at one time at a skate park.
Tim Hughes, 1780 Lake Lucy Lane, Excelsior, said he is getting more excited as the project goes along.
He wanted to address the concern of vandalism and kids getting in trouble. He reported that other parks
operate with little supervision. Kids keep each other in check. Those who want to see the park stay will
keep problems in check. He knows most of the skaters and they are respectful. Tim is 17 years old and is
the designer of the layout for this park.
Commissioner Bix asked Tim how he would get to the park. He said he would run or drive—as he does
now to get to the Chanhassen park. Themig asked him if he sees a difference between the kids at the
Chaska park and the Chanhassen one. Tim said only in language.
Bix asked Tim for ideas on how to effectively keep traffic from cutting through seasons. Tim said if the
road is off limits, people most likely won’t go there, especially if there is a consequence. Themig asked if
he skates in Excelsior and if a skate park at this location would reduce the skate traffic in the downtown
area. Tim said he does and it would be nice for convenience if the park were closer to Excelsior. Arnst
asked Tim about the visibility of the site. He said it is very good because it’s next to the highway.
When asked if he had approached the City of Excelsior for a park, Tim said the main issue was whether it
would involve tax dollars. Options there would be mostly in parking lots, which would work well, but are
mostly full. Themig stated that everyone supports the concept of a skate park, but the Commission wants
to choose the best location. Tim said this location is convenient and lots of kids from Minnetonka and the
high school are excited about it.
Phillip Simonson (father of 3, ages 16, 14, and 10) said two of his kids skateboard and he coaches baseball.
After the age of 12 there are no activities for kids. He drives his kids to the Chanhassen skate park and
feels very encouraged about the sport. Kids can expend energy and it’s a fun activity. Mr. Simonson said
the Highway 7 site is a good area in terms of visibility. He thinks kids would police themselves and they
should be given credit for that. On the issue of crossing the highway, he did not have an answer. His kids
had to wait until the age of 12 to cross Highway 7. Kids need an outlet and viable way to exercise. On the
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JUNE 13, 2000 – PAGE 5
point of crossing the highway to get sodas, Mr. Simonson thought a drinking fountain at the park would
deter the risk of a trip to the Holiday station as well. He also said he would help to contribute toward the
cost of a fountain.
Corinne Kubal, 5620 Vine Hill Road, pointed out that most schools are also on busy roads and it boils
down to parents taking on discipline with the crossing of the highway. She would drive her own 14-year-
old, rather than have him walk to this site and she thinks the area would be a fantastic location. As far as
supervision, the kids get on each other to keep others in place because they don’t want to lose the park.
Ms. Kubal said there is a need to target this age group (14 & up) to provide something for them to do, as
this area is lacking. Baseball season ends by July 4 and kids this age just need something constructive to
do. The sport incorporates a lot of talent and creativity. She is hoping it gets done before they are old
enough to drive. The kids do hang out at lots of places and it seems the owners of these stores would rather
have them do something constructive.
Commissioner Bix asked Ms. Kubal for her opinion about the present plan and the adequacy of parking
compared to other parks she has visited. Ms. Kubal said the one-way loop would help a lot. She thinks
there are enough parking spaces because she stays only a short time when she drops her kids off. People
don’t all come at the same time either. She has seen 25 or 30 kids at the Chanhassen park at one time, so
this parking plan seems more than adequate. She voiced support.
Zach Polson, 18009 Cynthia Drive, said he lives near the high school and is very happy about the skate
park plans. He said many of his friends use the high school for a skating area and people at the school
often kick them out. As far as the thirst issue, a drinking fountain would be convenient. He hopes that a
new park will encourage more people to take up the sport. Zach said he skateboards directly to the skate
park and he does not think parking would be an issue. Zach is 13. Commissioner Themig asked if his
parents would allow him to cross the highway and he said yes.
Alex Lauter said he supports a skate park here because there is not much for kids to do in this area. He
thinks kids can handle crossing the highway and that a drinking fountain would help tremendously. It
would be great if we got the park as soon as possible. Commissioner Bix asked if kids would abide by
rules relative to not cutting through the Seasons neighborhood. She explained the real concern to maintain
the serenity of the senior neighborhood. Alex said, if it is clear, they would abide by it. It would be best if
they had a alternate route.
Bix further stated why increased traffic would be a problem for the Seasons. If we could come up with a
good way to resolve that issue, it could work out. She invited suggestions for an alternative route and said
it would be a matter of respect.
Corinne Kubal stated that these kids don’t want to cause any trouble. They are good kids who are not
going there to vandalize. They are there to do their sport and be with buddies. Bix stated that traffic
cutting through is easy and it’s what lots of people do. We just need to find a way to get around it. Ms.
Kubal said people need to give these kids some credit. They know if they don’t respect property, the park
is going to be gone.
Commissioner Puzak expressed two thoughts on the cut-through issue. First, simply make the request to
not cut through. It would help if violators were ticketed early. Also, the pastor at the neighboring church
may be open to allowing kids to cut through their parking lot. He said he does not know the answer, but
it’s the next challenge. It’s the right thing to do.
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Woody Love, 5460 Teal Circle, spoke to the importance of listening to the needs of the young people. His
was impressed in visiting the Chanhassen skate park with the high level of skill and the artistry of the sport.
He supports the process that has been followed and, while some reasonable concerns have been raised,
solutions will be found. He believes the Hwy. 7 site works well for safety.
Jeff Bailey, 19660 Sweetwater Curve, said he lives near the proposed park and is the father of the first
speaker. He is in support of the skate park being located at the Hwy. 7 site. He referred to another recent
project, Shorewood Ponds, where there were also valid concerns voiced, but in the end, all objections were
unfounded. This, too is a project that Shorewood will be proud of. Mr. Bailey reviewed the three
concerns, saying they can be resolved. He endorsed the idea, and encouraged the Park Commission to go
ahead with the project.
Chair Arnst thanked all for their valuable comments and opened discussion among the Park
Commissioners. Themig stated that Mr. Hoffman of the Chanhassen skate park recommends that a park
should be near a place where there is good supervision. Themig asked if anyone has looked into using the
gravel lot by the South Lake police station. Brown said he believes it is owned by the City of Excelsior,
adding that it has nearby amenities, which could make it a desirable location.
Commissioner Puzak pointed out that the Commission has been working on this for two years and voted on
the Highway 7 site and even made a recommendation to Council. Now they are second-guessing
themselves. He said if anyone has another idea, they need to get the facts and bring it to us. At this point,
brainstorming for new ideas should be over. Puzak clarified that tonight’s action is to make a
recommendation on the design now that we have brought a plan to the community for discussion. We have
heard them and made adjustments accordingly.
Commissioner Young asked if the Commission had recommended this site to the Council at another time.
He then questioned why a walk with the citizens was done after the fact. Chair Arnst explained that the
neighborhood meeting was part of the information gathering process to determine what can be done to make
this fit better than it does. They needed to focus on a particular spot before involving neighbors.
Commissioner Berndt said she thinks a skate park at this site is a dynamite idea. The Commission has
addressed kids’ needs and the concerns of neighbors. Kids have helped with the process and they need a
place to go. We could go over and over it, but for the youth of this area we should make it real and just do
it. Parents are aware of where it is on the highway and know their other options. The Police Chief said it’s
very visible. Berndt said she would really like to see this get the go ahead.
Arnst referred to Plan Concept B and asked for other comments on this site that would make it one the
Commission could recommend to the Council. Dallman asked Planning Director Nielsen for his opinion
about reversing the parking and driving direction. Nielsen said this is the alternative he would recommend.
Brown commented that the Plan B design adds a conflict point where there is crossing over of traffic.
Commissioner Bix stated that two of the three major objections she had earlier were now resolved. She
said she has a deep-held respect for senior residents and their need for quiet. We need to do all we can to
alleviate that problem. She thinks the concept is very good and does not know that we will find a better
location without another year or two going by.
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JUNE 13, 2000 – PAGE 7
Arnst mentioned that another recommendation was to move the location of the trash bins and portable
bathrooms away from the direction of the Seasons. She asked about the idea to work with the neighboring
church on a traffic solution. Bix agreed with the idea to investigate that option.
Themig pointed out that Plan B calls for the pathway to be an asphalt surface. Arnst asked about the idea
of a fence along the burm. Puzak said they had talked about asking Mn/DOT to make a more substantial
partition for safety. They do not want a fence or high barrier in order to maintain visibility of the park.
Also, there would be shrubs rather than trees on the burm.
Engineer Brown said the City has recently obtained many round wooden highway posts that could be used
to create a substantial barrier along the highway. Dallman asked about the availability of city water and if
it would be cheaper than drilling a new well. There were additional comments to clarify the status of the
project for the newer members of the Commission, and on the process that arrived at this site selection. Bix
said she loves the concept but not this site.
Puzak asked staff about the process and the next step. Planning Director Nielsen said the City Council
would look at funding after a design is recommended. Puzak said they would be recommending this design
concept be presented to Council. Nielsen said the design could then be taken to the people who have
pledged to the concept and ask for their funding support.
Puzak moved to present this modified design to City Council as the correct location and configuration
of a skate park in Shorewood. Berndt seconded.
Brown asked for clarification on whether he was referring to Concept Plan B or A. Puzak said he meant
Concept B as further discussed and modified this evening. This means: move the location of the portable
toilets and trash to the west side of the park, plant shrubs along the burm rather than trees, install ballards
for a safety barrier, use the traffic flow designed so the first driveway is an exit. There was no further
discussion.
Motion passed 5/2 with Young and Themig opposed.
6. DECIDE LEVEL OF PARTICIPATION IN LITTLE LEAGUE FIELD DEDICATION
Commissioner Dallman reported that the dedication of Freeman Field #2 will be on Saturday, June 17 at
10:30 A.M. Those expected to participate are Carl Pohlad and Paul Molitor of the Twins organization, the
CEO of Cargill, and Mayor Love.
Nielsen said they are looking for people to direct guests to the parking spots. Police will be on Eureka
Road and civilians will work inside the park to get people to park closer together. Brown described the
tentative parking plan. Arnst asked that those interested would contact her. Dallman will present the need
at the Thursday Park Foundation meeting.
7. DISCUSS PARKING COMPLAINT AT FREEMAN PARK
A. Consider Sign Change or Other Options
Chair Arnst reported that there has been a complaint about vehicles using a portion of Freeman Park that is
a designated no parking area. She has visited the site and witnessed the problem. Brown said there is no
reason why the Park Commission cannot recommend that it be designated as a “No Parking” area. If it
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JUNE 13, 2000 – PAGE 8
already is marked, it may just be a maintenance issue. There was discussion about enforcement options. It
was agreed to leave it up to staff. Brown said it might just be a matter of more signage.
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JUNE 13, 2000 – PAGE 9
8. SET SCHEDULE FOR MEETING WITH SPORTS ORGANIZATIONS
It had previously been suggested that the Commission schedule individual meetings with the sports
organizations and meets with each separately in the course of one night. The Commission discussed this
and other options. Puzak recommended that a letter be sent to each organization at least 45 days in
advance of a meeting in order to give their boards notice and have time to prepare to meet with the
Commission. Chair Arnst said she would draft a letter and send it to the Commissioners for their review
and comments.
Puzak asked if the City Council has acted to approve the Commission’s proposal of a $5 “Sock Fee.”
Nielsen said the Council is in agreement with the recommendation, but the actual ordinance has not been
passed. There was discussion about the best sequence of action—whether to set the new fee before meeting
with sports representatives or after. Mayor Love said he thinks it is appropriate to establish the policy
first. Staff has not been directed to prepare the ordinance, but there has been discussion to that effect. He
suggested that one be prepared and brought to Council for adoption.
Dallman commented that the reason for establishing the ordinance after a meeting was to prevent the sports
organizations from reading about the fee in a newspaper. A letter should go out on or about the same date
of the Council meeting to say that the Commission recommends this new user-based fee policy. The
Commission should also be prepared with a response for those who may refuse the change in policy.
There was continued discussion about previous action and decisions related to this issue. The question of
how to work with the teams’ registration process was also considered. Chair Arnst summarized that they
first need the ordinance. The teams know this is coming and the decision now is how the Commission will
extend an opportunity for them to come in and talk about it. Discussion continued as to the best approach
and wording to use.
Engineer Brown stated that the City has received calls from some of the organizations asking if they will be
charged a lot to pay for Eddy Station. In his recollection, the user fee revenue was to be put toward capital
improvements of the parks. He suggested that the letter needs to say that the fees are for park expenses
across the board and not earmarked for Eddy Station.
It was agreed to send a letter to explain the recommendation of the new fee structure and the ordinance and
to invite them to come to a Regular Park Commission meeting if they want to address the issue of fees.
Dallman also suggested setting a separate agenda item on a set date for that discussion. The Commission
agreed to send the letter, go forward with the ordinance, and add a time for responses on the August 8
agenda.
4E. (Revisited) Discussion About Smithtown West Letter
Arnst reported that the Council made no changes to the draft letter to Smithtown West residents on the
topic of the trail process. They did ask for a change to the comment card. The card will offer two
responses, which are to be worded as follows:
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Yes I support the trail planning process for this segment of the trail. or
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No I do not support the trail planning process for this segment of the trail.
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JUNE 13, 2000 – PAGE 10
9. NEW BUSINESS
Nielsen reported that he has minimal information on concession revenue. He relayed some amounts from
the Cities of Minnetonka and Shakopee. The City of Shakopee takes a percentage of gross sales, which
last year netted $4,700 for the City. Arnst asked Nielsen to continue to obtain information from other
Cities and this will be discussed at another meeting.
There was discussion about meeting again in two weeks and next steps for the Park Commission as related
to the Eddy Station project. Staff explained that the intent is to go with the entire project—including the
alternates of the stainless steel sink and canopy. If Council decided to do something other than the whole
building, they would refer back to the Commission.
Commissioner Dallman stated that since the Commission has now made the recommendation to Council to
approve to a skate park at the wayside rest on Highway 7, he asked if someone is going to approach the
surrounding communities to help with financial support. Puzak said that Tonka Bay and Greenwood have
pledged money based on the concept. Now that we have something tangible to show, the fundraising can
proceed. The Youth Coalition will go to Deephaven and Excelsior and then the private sector. Arnst added
that they have a verbal invitation from the Excelsior Area Chamber of Commerce.
Brown asked the Park Commission liaison to City Council meetings to contact staff if they are not able to
attend their assigned meeting so someone can be prepared to present a park report. Commissioner Bix is
scheduled to attend the July Council meetings.
Brown also told the Commission that it is important for them to look back at what they have accomplished
in the last four years. He named all that has been achieved for parks since he has been with the City and
said this is a great Commission who should take pride in their work and the results.
10. ADJOURNMENT
Dallman moved, Bix seconded to adjourn. Motion passed 7/0.
The meeting adjourned at 10:20 P.M.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Connie Bastyr
Recording Secretary