032002 PK MIN
INFORMATIONAL MEETING AGENDA Shorewood City Hall
SHOREWOOD PARK COMMISSION, 5755 Country Club Rd
SPORTS ORGANIZATIONS, AND Shorewood, MN
MINNETONKA COMMUNITY EDUCATION Wednesday, March 20, 2002
SERVICES 7:00 PM
MINUTES
City Engineer Brown convened the informational meeting at 7:01 P.M.
1. INTRODUCTION OF ATTENDEES
A.Facilitator
- Mark Koegler HKGI, and Associates
B. Park Commissioners
- Chair Arnst, Commissioners Callies and Puzak
Staff
- Public Works Director Brown; City Administrator Dawson; Boyd Bailey,
Engineering Department; and Twila Grout, Park Secretary
C. Sports Organization Representatives Present
-
Adult Softball - Gerry Gordon, John Seamans, and Gordon Lindstrom
South Tonka Baseball - Brian Tichy and Mark Williams
Tonka Football Association - Roger Lenahan
MCES - Deb Malmsten
Minnetonka Girls Softball Assoc. - Jeff Bailey and Julie Deitering
Tonka United Soccer Assoc. - Jerry Rawel and Bill Sorteberg
2. PRESENTATION OF ISSUES FOR SHOREWOOD PARKS
A. Overview of Issues (Larry Brown-Public Works Director)
Engineer Brown welcomed everyone and began by giving a brief history of park and management
issues. He stated that the Park Commission and City of Shorewood would like to begin to address
these issues in a partnership effort with the Sports Organizations. The existing issues have evolved
over a number of years, and while it may not be easy to resolve them, Brown believed by getting all
the parties together they may be able to come up with compromises.
B. Presentation of Adopted Facility Use Agreement
Brown referred to the agenda packet, identifying the various pieces therein. First, were the
Ordinances for Public Parks and Recreation Areas. Next, he pointed out an Amendment to City
Ordinance No. 381, which raises the fine for the operation of motorized vehicles in Parks or on Public
Grounds to $200. Followed by the Tournament Application and fee schedule, which had not changed.
Brown continued, referring to the last piece, the Memorandum Agreement. He stated that the
Athletic Facilities Memorandum Agreement was the same standard agreement they had seen before
PARK COMMISSION AND SPORTS ORGANIZATION INFORMATIONAL MEETING
Wednesday, March 20,2002
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and was required to be executed by all the organizations.
The Facility Use Agreement was next. Brown indicated that this set of regulations explains most of
the issues that the City has been focusing on. While he believed many of the rules were self
explanatory, he did explain several key regulations.
For example, he pointed out that while it may be obvious that tournament permits and fees require a
15-day lead time, newer issues like driving on the fields may not. Brown stated that an amendment to
the City Ordinance raises the fine for driving on the fields to $200., due to damage incurred last year
to the irrigation system. The word needs to get out about the fine and driving on the fields to league
volunteers.
Another problem stems from the disposal of paint cans in the parks trash receptacles. Brown
maintained that even though the City has asked time and again that paint cans be disposed of
elsewhere, they still wind up in the parks, and no sooner do the sports organizations leave, youth find
those cans. The used paint cans then end up as graffiti covering the City’s new building. Just that
day, Brown said that he had been over to view a side of the building covered with graffiti.
Finally, Brown referred to the new 15 minute separation rule between activities in an effort to try to
ease the parking issues and manage our green space. He stated that the City realizes it has a limited
area and hopes this will minimize impact.
C. Review of User Fee Update
As a prelude to the user fee update, Brown maintained that over the years the use of Shorewood’s
parks has intensified, while the City itself is all developed out. This intensified use, after tallying costs
and projecting out, accompanied by the lack of revenue from development has warranted the
adoption of a user fee. The Park Commission has spent a great deal of time negotiating this territory
and while they realize this to be a controversial issue, the City has adopted a $10 user fee for 2002.
Brown pointed out that the Ordinance was adopted in January, however, admitted that he had
inadvertently missed notifying the Sports Organizations of the change at that time. With this in mind,
realizing that some organizations have already begun registration, Brown has recommended to
Council that the 2001 fees remain in effect until June 1st, 2002. Therefore, Sports Organizations
whose seasons begin after June 1st, 2002 will be affected by the User Fee change at that time.
D. Presentation by Mark Koegler of Field Inventory and Parking Study
Brown stated that the City is in a precarious position, forced to manage the beautiful resources that
exist at Freeman Park with the need for parking. Additional constraints exist, for example, there is a
limited amount of parkland at Freeman, and even though the City is working to expand parking at the
south end, the Watershed is extremely aggressive about its ponding requirements. By working with
the various Sports Organizations and managing the park correctly we hope to minimize the impact on
the park itself.
Mr. Koegler presented the field inventory and parking study for Freeman Park. He began by sharing
PARK COMMISSION AND SPORTS ORGANIZATION INFORMATIONAL MEETING
Wednesday, March 20,2002
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his affiliation with the City and stated that the agenda of tonight’s meeting was to balance the Policy
or administrative side with the physical side of Freeman Park.
In his overview, Koegler stated that they began their study by examining the Original Freeman Park
Master Plan, comparing it with the current use of the park and the standards used in other
communities, and finally offering some general observations and recommendations.
Koegler reported that one of two problems seems to exist at Freeman. They have found that these
include a shortage of off street parking and/or the overuse of the facilities creating an excessive
parking demand. The concurrent use of all facilities today, was never imagined in the 1980’s when the
master plan was created.
Koegler continued, sharing general recommendations for parking which include a series of
incremental changes over the next 2-3 summer seasons for evaluation. His group suggested creating
a “working model” approach to solving the problems, which avoid any undo hardships on any
particular sports organizations.
The recommendations Koegler suggested include, the staggering of game times by 15 minutes,
something that was tried with limited success in approximately 1997. The expansion of parking lot
#4, after working out the details with the Watershed, which will add an additional 76 spaces. Taking
it a step further, Koegler expressed the possibility of managing the park and use of its facilities
consistent with the available parking threshold. The desire would be to create an excessive parking
supply, with a 25% excess, which can be adjusted as needed.
One final note, Koegler reiterated to the Sports Organizations that the Park Commission views them
as partners in this effort. To that end, the Commission invites them to pencil in July 23, 2002, for an
evaluation meeting night in which draft recommendations for Freeman Park and its future might be
discussed.
E. Questions and Answers
Bill Sorteberg, of TUSA
, admitted that TUSA may have contributed to the parking problem last
year by allowing two extra groups to practice on a nightly basis, after their fields were damaged.
He believed that TUSA usage numbers could be cut by one third on a nightly basis this year. Mr.
Sorteberg added that the staggered start times of 6 and 7:15 P.M. will be used.
John Seamans, Adult Softball
, inquired whether staggering double headers was necessary since
these games are played back to back typically. Brown indicated that a break was necessary for
several reasons. First, the players need breaks to change fields if necessary; second,
administratively, staggering all games will be required; and third, some people will be leaving the
park even from double headers.
Gordon Lindstrom, Adult Softball
, asked if the organizations need to submit their schedules to
the City or MCES and stated that they have no idea what other sports leagues are doing. Brown
replied that the first step, staggering games, will be accomplished with MCES’s help this year. In
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Wednesday, March 20,2002
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the future, the City will be investigating the best way to handle the scheduling and other issues.
Brown believed it to be a good idea to supply the City with a copy of the schedules so that they
know what’s happening and can answer inquiries they receive.
John Seamans, Adult Softball,
pointed out how congested the “circle” is during drop off and
pick up times, and inquired whether that area could be made into a one way. Brown stated that
this was a great idea that would be further investigated. He added that South Lake Police, and
the Fire Marshall, get very upset about cars parked in the fire lanes and insist that this change.
Brown reiterated that the City will be requiring rosters, user fees, the memorandum agreement,
and facility use agreement, stating that Twila Grout, Park Secretary, will be the main contact, with
he as the backup.
Mark Williams, STBB
, asked if there was talk of coordinating user fees with other communities.
He stated that with kids using parks in several communities, the league is being hit up for user
fees everywhere. Brown felt this was an excellent question, adding that they are considering
changing the fee structure to simply charging a team fee.
Koegler asked Mr. Williams if they play in other jurisdictions and what they’ve been seeing occur.
Williams replied that they play in three to four communities who are all wanting to collect their
share. Brian Tichy, STBB, replied that they are collecting a flat fee, like Shorewood. Koegler
clarified the point by asking if STBB is currently paying and charging their players to play in all of
these different communities. Mr. Williams said that they are not doing so, yet, but it looks like
they’re headed in that direction. Koegler stated that this brings up an interesting dynamic not
necessarily considered before.
Puzak acknowledged that the Park Commission had considered this issue in a past meeting. They
determined that the only alternative to make it truly equitable would be to install parking meters
so that only people that are there are paying the fee. He stated that this was not received well by
anyone, neighbors, participants, etc. Brown stated that he is open to suggestions regarding this
issue and pointed out that what will probably occur at some point is a uniform application user fee
all the way across. Administrator Dawson added, that the maintenance costs involved in running
the parks far exceeds the user fees, which are merely used to offset expenses.
Julie Deitering, Minnetonka Girls Softball Assoc
., was concerned that some teams, like East
Tonka Little League, may only use a field at Freeman Park one time during the season, and would
be required to pay a user fee. She stated that they do not charge user fees at Bennett. Brown
maintained that extensive surveys of those using the parks were performed. Specifically, East
Tonka Little League, who said they only used the park once, were found using them often.
Chair Arnst asked if she could clarify this issue. She stated that based on the fact that East Tonka
Little League was scheduled to reserve those fields every night from 5 - 9 P.M. five nights a
week, whether or not it was the same team, is not the issue, its the fact that they have reserved
that field for them. It is on this basis we charge them the user fee. The issue is not whether it’s the
same team; it is whether that league has reserved that park for that block of time.
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Wednesday, March 20,2002
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Deb Malmsten, MCES
, asked for clarification of her responsibilities. She was mistakenly under
the assumption that the City expected her to sit down and manage the 15 minute staggered time
frame for each sports organization at each field. Puzak pointed out that there is no need for
looking between all the groups, the staggered scheduling is field by field. There are only so many
spaces allotted per field per evening, we want a minimum 15-minute exchange for people to pick
up and leave, while new people are entering the park.
John Seamans, Adult Softball
, stated that this is easily enough accomplished. The umpires can
dictate the 15-minute spread.
Brown maintained that this solution is the least obtrusive resolution we’ve come up with at this
time. He continued that the City is hopeful this will be the easiest method to execute and monitor
for success.
Gordon Lindstrom, Adult Softball
, claimed that in 1997 the staggered start times applied only
to soccer. He maintained that Adult Softball never staggered its’ times and merely rotated teams.
Brown reiterated that with the limited success realized in 1997, this year, with all the leagues
rotating, the results should be even more encouraging. Mr. Lindstrom felt that simultaneous starts
made the most sense. Puzak repeated that simultaneous starts aren’t the issue because, once
again, the 15-minute staggered times are per field.
Finally, Koegler pointed out that the one user not present at this evening meeting was the casual
user. The park facilities must lend themselves to those casual users who do not participate in the
active sports leagues and simply want to enjoy the trails or other facilities. He upheld that a
balance must be struck which effectuates a few spaces for these individuals.
Bill Sorteberg, TUSA,
reiterated the suggestion for a one way area for drop off and pick up.
3. ADJOURNMENT
Brown thanked everyone for attending the informational meeting, stating that he looked forward
to a successful partnership. He closed the meeting at 8:07 P.M.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Kristi B. Anderson
RECORDING SECRETARY