070902 PK MIN
CITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PARK COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY JULY 9, 2002 7:00 P.M.
MINUTES
1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
Chair Arnst called the meeting to order at 7:02 P.M.
A. Roll Call
Present: Chair Arnst, Commissioners Palesch, Bartlett, Callies, Young, and Meyers; City
Engineer Brown; Planning Director Nielsen; and City Council Liaison Zerby
Absent: None
B. Review Agenda
Chair Arnst requested that items #5B, 7, and 8C all be removed from the evening’s agenda. In
addition, Chair Arnst added 4E, a report regarding the status of the one-way signs at Freeman Park
and a separate item 4A, a report with regard to the water fountain discussion at Freeman.
Meyer inquired why items 5B, 7, and 8C were to be removed.
Chair Arnst indicated that the draft agreement that she had asked to have included in the packet was
not there for her to discuss with the Commission.
Palesch moved, Bartlett seconded, to approve the Agenda as amended. Motion passed 6/0.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Park Commission Minutes of June 11, 2002
Meyers moved, Palesch seconded, Approving the Park Commission Meeting Minutes of
June 11, 2002, as presented. Motion passed 6/0.
3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
Chuck Jewell, 23770 LaTonka Drive, Shorewood, voiced concern over the lack of quality tennis
courts in Shorewood. As one of 1500 members of Senior Tennis throughout Minneapolis, Mr.
Jewell criticized the lack of regulation quality facilities in Shorewood. As a resident, who plays
three times a week in Eden Prairie, he would like to be able to play in his hometown. Mr. Jewell
stated that playing in Shorewood is impossible since the nets have no center strap to maintain the
regulation height of 36”. The nets he has measured vary from 33 7/8” to 35”, which is
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substantially under regulation height and can make an enormous difference to competitive players.
Because Eden Prairie, Chanhassen, and Shakopee are consistently at 36”, and have a center strap,
the Senior Tennis Group is forced to play these courts rather than Shorewood. Mr. Jewell stated
that he has had conversations with Craig Dawson and Engineer Brown regarding his concerns and
wanted to make his point to the Park Commission as well. He indicated that he has even supplied
the City with Center Straps and offered to install them and the anchors if that is an issue. As to the
vandalism that Engineer Brown has referred to, Mr. Jewell pointed out that even Excelsior has
invested in updating and resurfacing their tennis courts. He maintained that many seniors in this
area would love to play here if the facilities matched the USTA requirements. In fact, he stated
that the Tennis Store in the strip mall has gone out of business since most competitive players go
elsewhere. He offered the analogy, that basketball games cannot be played with 9’ tall baskets,
they need to match regulation height requirements in order to be legitimate, much like tennis. Mr.
Jewell reiterated that he would be more than willing to help the City install the straps and hoped
his public opinion would make a difference.
Meyer asked what staffs’ response to Mr. Jewell’s suggestions were.
Mr. Jewell stated that Mr. Dawson had said they are working on it. Mr. Jewell asked if this was
truly the case, had the Park Commission been made aware of these issues staff was working on.
Meyer stated that the Commission was not aware of the suggestions.
Palesch thanked Mr. Jewell for his valuable opinions stating that during recent park tours
discussion regarding tennis court usage arose. The Commission believed the courts were not
being used; now with Mr. Jewell’s perspective, it is clearer why talented people don’t use the
courts.
Mr. Jewell pointed out that even with the new resurfacing at Cathcart, the City has once again
neglected to install center straps or anchors.
Chair Arnst said that it was good to hear from Mr. Jewell. Over recent months, as the park
master plans have been evaluated the concern has been over who is using the parks and why or
why not. She thanked Mr. Jewell for his input and stated that he had provided good information
to the Commission.
After Mr. Jewell departed, Zerby questioned why the center strap and height regulation issues
have not been addressed before. He asked if MCES uses the courts for lessons.
Brown stated that MCES does use the courts and the City has not heard any complaints from
users other than Mr. Jewell. With regard to the anchors, Brown indicated that installing them is
not as simple as pounding them in. Installation requires the City to jack hammer through the
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court, pour a foundation to place the anchors in, which in turn, exposes those areas to moisture
etc. He added that he did try to explain to Mr. Jewell that vandalism occurs when the anchors are
not properly installed.
Callies was sympathetic to tennis clubs, stating that if the courts do not live up to the necessary
regulations and offer a proper place to play, that explains why they are not used.
Zerby agreed, and questioned why the need to meet regulations for tennis should be any different
than those for basketball.
Brown indicated that staff would check with some of the facilities Mr. Jewell had mentioned and
find out how they address these issues.
4. REPORTS
A. Report on City Council Meetings of June 24 and July 8, 2002
Zerby reported that the sunset date for the LCEC was extended during the June 24 City Council
Meeting.
The July 8 City Council Meeting included the approval for the Highway 7/Freeman Park closure and
began the bidding process. Zerby added that approximately $75,000 in relief would be provided for
that project.
Zerby reported that discussion took place with regard to the South Tonka Little League (STLL)
concession building. Constructed per a CUP in 1993 and later donated to the City in 1996, Zerby
stated that there is no formal operating agreement between the City and Park Commission.
Furthermore, Zerby stated that the City has had no key or access to the building or its contents, while
still covering the insurance on both during this time. The City Council and City Attorney’s position is
that an agreement with South Tonka Little League be developed that addresses the insurance issues,
indemnification, operational issues of the facility in a City Park, and delineation of rights and
responsibilities of the parties. Staff was directed to research a lease arrangement and concessionaire
permit, providing a report at the next meeting.
Chair Arnst asked if any inspections of the building had ever occurred, since ultimately, the City could
be held responsible for what occurrs within this operation.
Brown indicated that, to his knowledge, no inspections have occurred since the building inspection of
1993.
Zerby stated that no one has been in the building other than a recent visit by the health inspector, who
checked it out and found many invalid items.
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Brown reported that the issue is in the hands of the Minnesota Department of Health, whom he
expects will be taking action soon. Brown stated that the inspector was adamant about taking action.
Chair Arnst asked if the City or staff had spoken to STLL or told them any of this information.
Brown stated that they had not.
Meyer believed it to be the City’s responsibility to do so and questioned why they had not informed
them.
Brown stated that the City does not have authority in this case. The MN Dept. of Health has been
notified and they will take action accordingly, as no operating agreement is in place yet, the STLL is
an unlicensed concessionaire.
Callies stated that shutting the concession stand down seemed pretty abrupt and believed more should
be done in order to avoid a public relations nightmare.
Young argued that unless the City is facing issues of liability, they should not be moving aggressively
to shut them down.
Zerby pointed out that the City could be held liable and needs to clearly define the relationship with
STLL by getting the necessary paperwork completed.
Young maintained that the timing for this could easily be deemed as somewhat spiteful, since the City
has been limited on what they are allowed to sell at their concessions.
Palesch asked when the City plans to inform STLL of the issues.
Brown stated that the City is waiting for the MN Health Dept. to make their move before they get
any further involved. Brown indicated that he had spoken briefly to Gordon Lindstrom, a
representative of STLL, and had told him that the health inspector was giving the City a hard time
and that STLL concessions would likely be their next contact.
Meyer asked whether it might be respectful, and in the City’s best interest, to contact STLL first with
news of what is happening.
Chair Arnst suggested that a phone call from Craig Dawson would be appropriate. She also pointed
out that the issues could be in the paper since reporters were present at the Council meeting.
Zerby stated that the Council merely questioned the origination of the operation to begin with, and
then wanted to clear up liability issues and manage the paperwork.
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Bartlett asked if STLL is aware of what’s wrong with the operation at all or if they are oblivious to
the issues altogether. He asked if this would come as a big surprise to them.
Brown felt that the City did not have authority to get involved since the state and county health
departments make the rules. They serve a necessary purpose, looking out for the health and welfare
of the public. We do not have City inspectors in Shorewood.
Young questioned if City Health Departments are superceded by the State.
Chair Arnst indicated that, in some Cities like Minnetonka, who have their own health departments,
they will allow certain things that the state may question. She stated that one source told her that
some of the Hennepin County Inspectors have pushed way above the limits with their interpretations
of what concessionaires should be doing.
Brown explained that, originally, the concessions fell under the purview of the State Health
Department, whose responsibilities have now been transferred to the County Health Department.
With the transfer of power, it seems they have gone well beyond what they feel is required or
necessary.
Chair Arnst asked for further comment. Seeing none, she stated that, hopefully moving forward in the
future, when the City enters into agreements with people, the necessary paperwork gets filed right
away in order to avoid cleaning up the mess it creates nine years later.
With regard to the July 8 meeting, Zerby concluded that the Christmas Lake Road sewer project
might temporarily impact contact with the access.
B. Report on Eddy Station Concessions
Brown reported that the new concession is operating at a loss. He questioned the reasoning for the
inclusion including items such as rent and utilities in the spreadsheet. Many factors have hindered
success, the first being weather, and second, the fact that the concessions does not have the products
to sell that were anticipated. He explained that, up until recently, the City had not been informed
when cancellations occurred due to weather and the concessions had been needlessly staffed. Jeff
Bailey, of Girls softball, suggested staff look into treat tickets, like Bennett Park, to avoid some
difficulties. Brown added that a $900 commercial cooler was not reflected in the numbers and at this
point they do not offer a pretty picture.
Meyer stated that she had not expected to see a positive cash flow within the first two weeks of
operation.
Chair Arnst asked if staff is in contact with organizations regarding the scheduled make up games and
practices.
Brown indicated that an effort is being made to coordinate the make-ups.
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Young questioned why rent was listed on the spreadsheet at all.
Brown stated that it was Council’s original intent to include all costs, real or not, to ensure success.
C. Report on Cub Food Park Fees
Brown explained that sizable developments are required to donate Park Fees, and with that
introduced Nielsen to expand on the Cub development. Nielsen stated that the City Council had
approved the Shorewood Village Shopping Center development, which designates 8% of the new
land value, or approximately $27,000 to Park Fees. This one time windfall should be received within
the next 30 to 60 days. Nielsen also reported that the developer had agreed to put in the trail for
Lake Linden Drive. Likely to be placed on the west side of the road with a crossover near the
proposed neighborhood monument, a feasibility study is underway. Nielsen added that the new
bituminous trail is viewed as a mitigating factor for the additional traffic.
Palesch asked if neighbors were aware of the trail.
Nielsen stated that anyone who has followed the process or seen the papers knows what’s going on.
Brown indicated that while drainage may be an issue later, potentially running down the trail, WSB
will have a first draft to review after July 19.
Chair Arnst suggested putting the Lake Linden Trail review on the August Agenda.
D. Report on Skate Park Sign
Brown reported that the sign had been ordered and takes from 6 to 8 weeks for delivery. He believed
the sign would be up by the next meeting date.
E. Report on One-Way Signs at Freeman Park
Brown indicated that the one-way signs had been ordered and asked the Commission if it was their
desire to install them. He reminded the Commission that the loop is counterclockwise and asked
them, based on what they saw at the park tour, if that was acceptable.
Palesch stated that, based on what she had seen and what people have told her, citizens want this to
be a one-way access to ensure safety.
Brown stated that the lot is wide enough to support two-way traffic.
Chair Arnst suggested posting the signs on a trial basis to see if they help to untangle the north
parking lot.
With regard to the access closure, Young stated that earlier on he had gotten the impression that
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MnDOT would not jump on board or fund the closure without neighbor support. He asked if that
issue had been resolved.
Brown stated that everything is in order for the closure to continue and it is expected that the
neighbor issues will be resolved before any dirt is moved.
4A. Proposed Water Fountain at Freeman Park
Chair Arnst explained that during the Freeman Park Tour, Ken Dallman, of the Park Foundation, had
discussed the idea of installing a drinking fountain around which the bricks from the buy a brick effort
would be laid. Chair Arnst stated that while many opinions were expressed, no direction was given
with regard to Dallman’s suggestion and she asked for further clarification of the Commissions
position.
Callies stated that she was not interested in an outdoor fountain.
Bartlett concurred, especially, if the Park Commission had to pay for it.
Brown indicated that they had given Dallman and the Park Foundation a cost estimate of $9,000 for
the installation. There was further talk regarding seniors and what would attract them to the park
facilities.
Meyer stated that there is no interest in a $9,000 fountain, when money needs to be used to pay down
the construction of Eddy Station in the first place. She encouraged staff to relay to the Park
Foundation that the Commission does not want them to pursue this option.
Palesch suggested incorporating the bricks into stopping points with benches along the proposed
walking trails. This would provide an opportunity to grow as bricks are sold.
While Meyer empathized with the Park Foundations desire to create a central focus to sell their
bricks, she could not support any expenditure of funds in order to sell more bricks.
Brown reminded the Commission that they have not yet even met with the seniors to determine if an
outdoor fountain is desirable in the first place.
Chair Arnst asked Brown to contact the Park Foundation to relay the Park Commission’s position
regarding the fountain.
5.PARK MANAGEMENT
A. Discussion of Progress in Development of Park Management Job Description
and Direction to Staff
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Chair Arnst asked Brown if any progress in the development of the Park Management job description
had been made. Brown stated that staff has begun putting together requirements and responsibilities
based on what they’ve seen from other parks and organizations. He expected to have a draft for the
next Park Commission meeting for review.
Chair Arnst asked if it would be possible to schedule discussion of the job description on July 23rd,
following the meeting with The Ponds senior residents. Chair Arnst asked whether the job
description would include any aspect of managing the concessions. Brown believed this would
remain in house.
Meyer inquired over the possibility of the park manager handling the scheduling of the concession
workers since they will know when games are happening. Brown felt that could be determined later.
B. Discuss and Consensus for Equity Policy for Scheduling in 2003
??????
Review Policies from Other Cities
??
Define Criteria for Development of Policy and Direction to Staff
Removed from the Agenda.
6. COUNTY ROAD 19 LANDSCAPE (Planning Director Brad Nielsen)
A. Consensus on Design
Nielsen shared some background with regard to the public service facility and the redevelopment of
the intersection. He pointed out that both the Tonka Bay Shopping Center and American Legion will
be redeveloped some time in the future.
Nielsen complimented the City Council and Planning Commission for having the foresight to
commission a whole corridor study in an effort to coordinate design elements in Shorewood. While it
is the goal of the City to see construction begin this year, Tonka Bay needs to make a decision with
regard to their liquor store operation.
George Watson, of Brauer and Associates contracted by WSB, designed the expanded corridor
proposal addressing landscaping, retaining walls, and pedestrian circulation. Nielsen explained the
proposal and how these aspects are all tied to the future improvements and current plans of
Shorewood. While space and MSA funding will dictate much about trails and sidewalks, Nielsen
asked for Park Commission comments regarding the design.
According to the proposal, Nielsen pointed out that the sidewalk along the shopping center is
suggested for the west side of the road, in Tonka Bay. With regard to the trails near Gideon Glen,
Nielsen stated that the LCEC did not support the idea of a loop since the trail is intended for
interpretive or educational purposes. He mentioned that parking to allow access to Gideon Glen
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through the American Legion lot would be addressed later. In the design, Watson suggests a trail run
behind the public works and public safety facility which connects to the LRT. Nielsen indicated that
there is skepticism regarding this link. Other questions, such as trail access to Freeman Park and LRT
access along Timber Lane need to be addressed as well.
Zerby inquired over the potential of undergrounding the trail near the public works facility.
Nielsen stated that this is a costly solution; however, could be a long-term goal.
Chair Arnst noted that in their trail planning process, the Commission viewed the shoulder along 19
as a bike lane.
Nielsen asked for direction and pointed out that time is critical if he is to be able to present to Council
on July 22, 2002.
Zerby felt that a trail behind the public safety facility with a tunnel under 19 made the most sense to
him. However, if a tunnel was not feasible, Zerby felt a crossing there would be unacceptable.
Chair Arnst agreed, stating that if money were no object, a tunnel would be most desirable.
Brown maintained that it would be a lengthy and costly process to change the plan that dramatically
at this point.
Nielsen stated that, realistically, the funding for a tunnel would not be available, and the City would
have to foot the bill entirely.
Zerby proposed staff discuss the vacant lot behind the legion as a potential trail access to Gideon
Glen.
Meyer asked if the Gideon Glen trails would be intended for bike usage.
Nielsen indicated that the Gideon Glen trails would be meant only for pedestrian traffic. In fact, the
Gideon Glen ecosystem is precious, and the City would like to confine people to the trails and
boardwalks only.
Chair Arnst questioned the need for trail access out of Glen Road.
Nielsen stated that the segment she was referring to was unlikely going to happen and would be
removed from the draft as well. Nielsen asked if there was consensus among the Commissioners to
support the trail along 19 on the east side near this section. All agreed.
Nielsen pointed out that very high retaining walls near the shopping center would be necessary and
asked if 6 foot or 8 foot sidewalks would be more desirable.
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Callies stated that 8’ would be favored, but the Commission could accept 6’ if that was necessary.
Brown pointed out that, in addition to the sidewalks, the County requires an 8’ shoulder. He stated
that they might not need 8’, since this might appear tight and have a freeway look.
Palesch indicated that 8’ would look much more spacious and most parents wouldnt’ want their kids
biking on Highway 19 when there is a safer alternative.
Young agreed that 8’ would be best.
Nielsen concurred that, if allowed, 8’ would be the preference.
Nielsen asked for comment whether the trail should extend into Excelsior along Highway 19.
Chair Arnst stated that based on costs and time, this would be best left for future projects.
Brown complimented the Planning Commission for looking further into the future development along
the corridor and not just piece by piece.
Nielsen asked for additional comments regarding landscaping. He pointed out that the LCEC has
suggested native plantings, not nearly as formal as Wayzata. With limited landscaping options
available altogether, a more naturalized appearance has been suggested.
Brown stated that with regard to sightlines, City Engineers are now being required by Hennepin
County to sign off on proposed landscaping plans.
Nielsen indicated that lighting was the final issue to address for the evening. There will be several
places that lighting will be recommended, already at Glen Road it has been requested, and it is the
City‘s desire to provide a unified lighting style along the corridor. Nielsen noted that the lights they
are considering are downcast, attractive lights similar to those at Grays Bay Bridge. The Commission
felt this was reasonable.
7. CONCESSION AGREEMENT BETWEEN SOUTH TONKA BASEBALL AND CITY
OF SHOREWOOD
A. Consensus on Need
B. Review and Discuss Draft Agreement and 1993 Agreement
C. Suggest Changes on Draft and Recommendation to City Council
Removed from the Agenda.
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8. DISCUSS AGENDA FOR JULY 23 MEETING
A. Meet with Shorewood Ponds Residents at Eddy Station Regarding Freeman
Park and Requested Trail Along West Side of Eureka
It was agreed that the July 23, 2002 meeting with The Ponds residents would be scheduled from 7
P.M. to 7:30 P.M. at Eddy Station followed by a regular meeting to discuss the Park Management
Job Description.
B. Include Other Eureka Road Residents in Trail Discussion
An invitation for the neighbors on the East side of Eureka Road will be extended in order to
discuss the trail.
Chair Arnst pointed out that additional neighbors would be included in the next step of the park
master planning process.
Brown suggested informing people present on July 23rd that a regular meeting will follow and
they are welcome to stay or leave.
C. Other Matters for Inclusion -
Removed from the Agenda
9. NEW BUSINESS
Chair Arnst reviewed the 2002 Goals as set by the Commission, acknowledging that three of the
five have been accomplished already this year, while the park master planning and park
management process are in progress.
Brown reported that the construction process at Christmas Lake Road and Highway 7 is part of
the Met Council initiative to bore a new waste water line under Highway 7. It will cause
construction delays for the access starting July 8th. Caught somewhat off guard by the proposal,
the City notified neighbors as soon as possible and have been told that the construction should be
concluded by the end of September.
10. ADJOURNMENT
Palesch moved, Young seconded, adjourning the Park Commission Meeting of July 9, 2002,
at 9:12 P.M. Motion passed 6/0.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Kristi Anderson,
Recording Secretary