091702 PK MIN
CITY OF SHOREWOOD 5735 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
PARK COMMISSION MEETING SOUTHSHORE COMMUNITY CENTER
TUESDAY SEPTEMBER 17, 2002 7:00 P.M.
MINUTES
1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
Chair Arnst called the meeting to order at 7:01 P.M.
A. Roll Call
Present: Chair Arnst, Commissioners Palesch, Callies, Young, Davis, and Meyers; City
Engineer Brown; Engineering Technician Bailey; and City Council Liaison Zerby
Absent: Commissioner Bartlett
B. Review Agenda
Engineer Brown requested that item #4C, update on the Smithtown Road trail, be added to the
evening’s agenda.
Palesch moved, Callies seconded, to approve the Agenda as amended. Motion passed 6/0.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Park Commission Minutes of August 13, 2002
Palesch moved, Callies seconded, Approving the Park Commission Meeting Minutes of August 13,
2002, as presented. Motion passed 6/0.
3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
There were none.
4. REPORTS
A. Report on City Council Meeting of August 26, and September 9, 2002
Zerby had nothing to report with regard to the City Council Meeting of August 26, 2002.
Zerby stated that, during the September 9 meeting, the Council discussed the Smithtown Road trail and Eddy
Station Concession stand, which are on the agenda for this evening as well.
B. Update on Concession Operations at Eddy Station
Brown reported that the Eddy Station Concession operations were discussed with the City Council, staff, and
finance director during a recent budget work session. While opinions were fairly broad, Brown indicated that
the minor consensus was to continue the concession stand operations next year and look into adding treat
PARK COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
September 17, 2002
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ticket options, similar to Bennett Park, in January 2003. The opinion acknowledged that, even as a break-even
operation, the concession stand was a nice service to provide the public.
With regard to what could be offered, Brown stated that the City plans to challenge the original Health
Department Findings after the first of the year.
Since Bennett Park is in the process of constructing a new concession building, Meyer suggested contacting
them about the potential of purchasing any of their used equipment, which might help Shorewood to comply
with Health Department requirements.
C. Update on Smithtown Road Trail
Brown explained that the trail planning process for the Smithtown Road trail has been a long arduous
progression that began in approximately 1995 or 1996. He reported that staff had presented the City Council
with a draft plan in order for them to see that some progress has been made over the years, by doing this staff
unintentionally caused some confusion among the Council Members. While it was not the intention of staff to
circumvent the Park Commission in any way, staff believed that if they could present the Council with a draft
plan, get those approved, knock on residents doors to solicit their approval and make revisions, they could then
come back to the Park Commission and finalize a plan.
Chair Arnst reminded the Commissioners that this pedestrian walkway or trail has been in limbo awaiting the
completion of the Smithtown Road redevelopment project.
Zerby added that City Council members wanted to ensure that the trail planning process had been followed.
While Council believed that the Park Commission had reviewed the trail project and preferred a westerly side
walkway, this process was performed years ago and Council wished to refer it back to the Park Commission.
Chair Arnst noted that in 1995, and over the years since, trail walks have occurred, funding was investigated,
and resources were tapped. At that time, the Park Commission forwarded their findings on to the City Council
in May of 2000 awaiting their guidance.
Brown indicated that, over the years, various issues have delayed the process, thereby prompting staff to give
Council a sense that plans are ready for review and public comment at this time. A work session has been
recommended to discuss this topic on September 23, 2002 following the regular City Council Meeting.
Chair Arnst suggested that newer Park Commissioners familiarize themselves with the trail planning process as
approved in 1998.
Young stated that he would like to receive, via email, the trail planning process material for review.
Chair Arnst pointed out that a trail planning process requires a huge amount of work, which includes the
collection of information, performance of surveys, work with consultants on a process which involves the
citizens. In fact, Chair Arnst cited the Vine Hill/Covington Road trail as one in which the process was
successfully followed to construct a pedestrian walkway.
Zerby inquired if discussion had specifically centered on which side to run the trail along Smithtown Road.
Bailey indicated that there had been discussion mostly focused on a west side placement of the walkway.
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September 17, 2002
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Chair Arnst pointed out that while discussion had occurred, there was no consensus on which side to construct
the trail.
In an effort to move things along and not to circumvent the Park Commission, Brown indicated that many steps
of the trail planning process remain, including public meetings and ROW issues, which need to be determined
to see if 3 or 33 neighbors buy into or are opposed to the trail.
5. PRESENTATION, DISCUSSION/QUESTIONS ON EQUITY POLICIES WITH JON
GURBAN OF MINNESOTA PARK AND RECREATION
Mr. Gurban indicated that, typically, his multimedia presentation focuses on “Parks and Recreation, Your Best
Investment” since oftentimes, City’s best investment is to provide a good park and rec service. He referred to
one of his associations philosophies, which states, if you are a City that provides recreation opportunities, you
get teams, if you don’t, you get gangs.
Gurban explained that the mission of the Mn. Park and Recreation Association is to help people and Cities with
their parks and recreation. He pointed out that they are a nonprofit association, not government, and have
approximately 150 members throughout the state. The organization is charged with training and education,
recently running a workshop for the National Institute for Playground Safety, and putting on the State
Conference for Park and Recreation professionals. They are a resource center, a network center, and best
practices and sharing ideas center. Gurban pointed out that, at an annual membership of $200, membership
satisfaction is guaranteed. Furthermore, they provide a job bulletin and position announcements for most
departments, including park and natural resources, maintenance and operations, aquatics, seniors, etc. Gurban
indicated that their main goal is to try to help, by acting as a resource that can provide its members with the
best and most successful ideas, which can be incorporated to meet the needs of your community. He identified
several examples of community centers that have utilized this resource, in Wyndam, Maple Grove, etc.
Gurban asked what information the City was looking for with regard to Equity.
Brown explained that Shorewood is faced with a challenge of providing access to and managing its parks,
specifically Freeman Park, a 55 acre intensely used park, trail system, ball fields, etc. Brown indicated that the
City would be taking over management of 99% of its park features in 2003 in order to get a handle on issues,
parking, and overall management. In preparation for this role, by the end of 2002, the City would like to create
an Equity Policy which would provide direction for scheduling field usage, answer the question how youth
organizations vie for fields, and provide a balance of guys/girls, youth/adult, and/or activities.
Gurban reiterated that there is no need to reinvent the wheel, many good ideas exist, He suggested that the City
begin by developing a good park master plan.
Brown stated that the Park Commission is at the tail end of the process, a process that has been ongoing for
approximately 18 months or more, developing and adopting master plans for all five parks. He added that the
process is nearing the implementation phase and open houses will be held to obtain public comment on the
master plans.
Gurban complimented the Commission on its process, inferring that the public likes to be given the opportunity
for input, although that does not necessarily mean they get their way.
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Gurban stated that there are up to six different ways to provide equity; some City’s simply provide a scheduling
service; while others act as schedulers and maintenance keepers of facilities; still others have aggressively laid
out a priority use system and monitor equity, scheduling youth during daylight and weekend hours and adults
into the evening hours; and finally, some cities allow the sports organizations to maintain the fields while they
provide some scheduling services.
Often it depends on finances, Gurban stated that some cities subsidize their youth programs with the adult
leagues in order to keep costs affordable for youth. He urged Shorewood to protect some weekend time and
make special event opportunities available versus booking a field out for the whole season. Furthermore,
Gurban suggested lighting one or more fields to maintain and maximize their use into the evening hours.
Chair Arnst informed Gurban that Shorewood has implemented a user fee to assist in subsidizing maintenance
costs. In the past, MCES, community education, has insisted on scheduling a field out for an entire season or
year, which has caused a problem when you have two groups vying for the same fields, the field is often times
scheduled and goes unused. Chair Arnst stated that the community education service did not choose to work
with the Park Commission to solve this situation; therefore, Shorewood has decided to hire a park and
recreation manager who, with our help, will determine a better and equitable way to manage those fields.
With regard to the user fee, Gurban indicated that the City now has data to support their needs. Girls sports are
emerging and if you don’t give them time and space to grow they will be stifled. In fact, Gurban stated that he
was surprised to hear that Shorewood offers joint use of fields by adults and youth, with respect to the adult
behavior often being modeled. Many communities schedule adults on specific nights and youth on other days.
In reference to the solutions available to Shorewood, Gurban encouraged the Commission to involve the
organizations in determining the end result. By explaining to the users the goals, (i.e. to have a lit field and
here’s what we will do until then) and based on their needs and participation this is what Shorewood is
proposing to do, the future park and rec person will be able to develop a formula to divide the usage up.
Gurban pointed out that occasionally fields can double for adults or youths and nights can be alternated
between the two. He suggested that the park and rec person also continue to collect data by monitoring the field
usage. It is apparent that blanket scheduling is not responsive to the community, research what will work.
Brown maintained that the Shorewood parks are virtually loved to death. He stated that, on occasion, 13 soccer
games are being played simultaneously on three fields, while all the ball fields are used as well. He argued that
our park simply couldn’t support this usage, which leads to parking and field maintenance issues as well.
Meyer questioned how the park and rec person could monitor all of the parks and enforce scheduling.
Gurban insisted that monitoring could be done on a random basis only requiring the manager to monitor usage
occasionally.
Brown noted that it would not be the job of the manager to act as the enforcer.
Gurban reiterated that the manager’s job would consist of data collection, are the youth sports or adult users
actually using the fields when scheduled. Pick up further data that will support the rationale you make to
organizations regarding field scheduling, use this to back up your assertions. Gurban encouraged the City to
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September 17, 2002
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be sensitive to community usage as well, by keeping time out for neighborhood nights out, family picnics,
Shorewood Days, or tournaments.
Gurban indicated that several cities have instituted a per night fee, similar to the per person fee, which puts the
onus and responsibility on the user groups to use the fields they have scheduled. Gurban stated that Garrett
Beck of the City of Burnsville has instituted this fee program successfully.
Brown asked if Gurban could supply the City with field usage examples.
Chair Arnst asked if the Mn. Park and Recreation organization has examples of equity policies for reference.
Often called Priority policies, Gurban stated that Sonja Rippey, of Eagan, has a good priority policy in place,
which schedules field usage based on a priority or preference system.
Callies stated that she too preferred the reference to a Priority Policy versus an Equity Policy, which to her has
seemed somewhat an inflammatory term.
As guidelines for scheduling, Gurban felt a priority policy might be more beneficial to the City.
If a priority policy is preferable, Callies urged the Commission and staff to identify where their priorities lie.
To begin with, Gurban suggested using a flip chart, which displays Monday thru Sunday, and designate what
hours are available for scheduling. For instance, youth sports might run 5-7 p.m. on certain nights, adult sports
after that. The City needs to determine when the operating hours will be, when maintenance will occur, and
when fields will rest, and if a group uses a field when they are not entitled, there needs to be consequences for
that action. Gurban reminded the Park Commission that they are responsible for the parks and their use
everyday.
Gurban suggested the Commission further act as a resource to the leagues who use their fields, evaluate the
appropriateness of fields perhaps suggesting outdoor ice arenas be used for tiny tot soccer, and/or consider
providing coaching certification opportunities.
Meyer reminded Gurban that the City does not have a park director, MCES has performed scheduling services
to date, and it is the goal of the Commission to be more inclusive.
Similar to what was proposed with regard to the trail process, Gurban encouraged the Commission to involve
the citizens or users of the facilities. He suggested the Park Commission not make any new rules or regulations
without input from the user groups, which will allow them the opportunity to buy into or take ownership of the
decisions.
Chair Arnst indicated that the Park Commission had held an initial meeting with the sports organizations in the
spring as they introduced the new sports information meeting and they were given a heads up at that time that
changes were being made.
Meyers agreed that it would be a good idea to offer them another opportunity for input.
Everyone wants to be heard. The process should include the users, give them an opportunity to recognize that a
problem exists, and allow them to discuss the priority policy. Gurban pointed out that the City of Mendota
Heights has a part time professional who handles their park and recreation.
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September 17, 2002
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Meyer stated that she would be interested in learning more about the qualifications and salary range for a part
time person.
Gurban stated that, as in the case of Mendota Heights, the person you hire to act as your park and recreation
manager will need your help to determine what will work for your community.
Chair Arnst asked for Gurban’s comments on concessions.
Gurban indicated that, in most cases, the concession operations are leased out to a dominant user group within
a city. For example, Dolf Moon, in Hutchinson, and Garrett Beck, in Burnsville, feel it is too much work to
staff and inventory concessions and would rather lease the space out reasonably to one of it’s user groups, who
will likely use the funds to improve the facilities anyway. Gurban stated that very few municipalities run their
own space anymore.
Chair Arnst asked about people who would want to rent this space out for use.
Gurban indicated that there are lease agreements that still allow you, the owner of the facility, to lease it out.
He recommended that, when leasing concessions to a user group, the City not drive a hard bargain because you
want the users to make money, so they, in turn, continue to want to run the concessions. Gurban continued,
stating that many concessions are now all automated or can be run as both concessions or vending, which
would cut down on staffing difficulties. Tyson vending, for example, can provide these services.
As new members of the Mn. Park and Recreation Association, Palesch asked for further suggestions and details
of just how the City could write this Priority Policy now.
Gurban indicated that he could provide the City with up to five examples from other Cities.
Brown stated that the Park Commission has much to accomplish yet this year, and indicated that he would hope
to provide the Commission with a rough draft of the policy at the October 8th meeting. From a timing
perspective, Brown inquired if he could take it upon himself and staff to design a policy based on the examples
provided by Gurban.
Young felt this would be acceptable.
Palesch suggested the Commissioners be provided the examples to review and make suggestions to Brown by a
given date in order to be included in his draft policy.
Zerby inquired about the Mn. Park and Recreation website.
Merely running 5 months, Gurban indicated that the website could be used to perform short surveys or learn
about new hot topics.
Zerby questioned obtaining user group input with regard to the priority policy.
Gurban reminded the Commissioners that it is difficult to ask people to support something they have had no
input in creating.
Meyers contended that it is not the lack of fields that concern the Commission, but rather the management of
those fields.
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September 17, 2002
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To clarify, Zerby stated that Brown would gather the 5 examples from Gurban, input from the Commissioners
would be provided to staff, they would draft a rough priority policy for the next meeting, and touch base with
the users sometime in late October.
Brown reiterated that it is very important they have a rough draft to work from prior to meeting with the users
in order to ensure that the City’s nonnegotiable items are included before going through public process.
Chair Arnst believed that the user groups would be open to being involved in these discussions.
Brown stated that he felt the sports groups were pleased to be included in the process and provide input, an
opportunity they have never been given before.
Chair Arnst thanked Gurban for his presentation and the introduction to all the resources available to the City
as members of the Mn. Park and Recreation Association.
6. PRESENTATION/REQUEST FROM THE PARK FOUNDATION
Ken Dallman, of the Park Foundation explained that the main goal of the Foundation is to raise money for the
Park Commission to fulfill a commitment it made to donate $10,000.a year for the construction of Eddy
Station.
One method for fundraising has been the Buy-a-Brick program for the plaza at Eddy Station, which has raised
approximately $5,000. No plan has been submitted by either the Foundation or Park Commission as to where
the bricks will specifically be laid to date and Dallman asked for further direction.
The Foundation will be holding an Arts and Craft Fair on November 2, 2002, at the Minnetonka High School,
in partnership with MCES, in order to raise additional funds. Dallman requested assistance from the
Commission in promoting the event and obtaining volunteers to set up the display areas, run cash registers, and
sell food items. Dallman indicated that with booths in the cafeteria, commons, and black box theatre, there
would be room for 165 crafters, of which 125 have reserved space. Dallman noted that volunteers will also be
needed for set up Friday night, November 1st, and Saturday morning, as well as, tear down Saturday afternoon.
The hours of the sales are 9AM - 4PM. Dallman stated that the Foundation hopes to clear $5,000 on this event
and make it an annual event, which will be advertised in the crafter newsletter. He spoke to Administrator
Dawson about adding a link to the Shorewood website and putting a notice in the newsletter.
The second part of Dallman’s presentation was to request a Park Commission liaison that would attend
Foundation meetings, which are held the third Thursday of every month at 5:00 P.M.
Young questioned what would be done with the bricks the Foundation has sold thus far.
Dallman noted that there has been no clear definition by either the Park Commission or Park Foundation as to
where the bricks would go.
Young suggested the Foundation contact a professional service to provide a design for the brick walkway or
sitting space.
Dallman stated that supposedly one member of the Foundation had been working with a representative from
Shorewood nursery on a design, but they have not seen anything yet. He indicated he would look into the status
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September 17, 2002
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of this proposal.
Chair Arnst stated that since the Foundation was selling the bricks as part of their fundraising efforts, it
would seem to her that, it behooves the Foundation to present some suggestions or ideas to the Park
Commission of where they would like to see them go.
Callies felt the Foundation was looking for some ideas or direction from the Park Commission on the brick
design.
Dallman asked where the Commission believed the brick walkway would work best, as part of a fountain, a
trail to the tot lot, or elsewhere.
With plans for a future perimeter walkway, Palesch felt that past discussions had centered on rest spots with
benches surrounded by the bricks.
Davis suggested the Foundation contact Mitch, at Stonescapes, who had recently completed a beautiful brick
walkway around her gardens, and request an estimate or design for a certain area.
Dallman stated that he was unsure just how many bricks had been purchased so far and indicated that the
corporate attack for the Buy-a-Brick program had not even begun.
Davis suggested the Foundation contact all of the user groups of the park and their sponsors initially.
Meyer suggested Dallman consult with Brown on a specific location and investigate the idea of a secret garden
spot.
Brown pointed out that a number of different areas came to mind, but the perimeter idea would be one that
would not be realized for some time. He urged the Foundation to investigate somewhere more immediate and
suggested the area by the tot lot or as a border around the Freeman Park sign and garden.
Young pointed out that the discussion was going no where forward and was, in fact, back at square one.
Chair Arnst indicated that the Park Commission had identified three potential locations, given the Foundation a
contact at Stonescapes to call, and invited the Foundation to be creative and come up with additional ideas to
present to the Commission.
Callies asked who made up the Park Foundation.
Originally a group of 17 members, the Foundation has been pared down to a group of 9 volunteer members.
Dallman noted that the group is essentially made up of 7-8 active members and would welcome a Park
Commission representative.
Based upon the request, Chair Arnst asked if anyone on the Commission was interested in serving on the Park
Foundation.
Palesch indicated that, as one who already volunteers her time to serve on the Park Commission, it would
stretch her too thin to serve on additional committees, and she felt that others had similar feelings.
Chair Arnst thanked Dallman for his numerous years of service and encouraged him to speak to the Foundation
PARK COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
September 17, 2002
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on the Commission’s behalf, replacing the Park Commission representative with someone who possess’ a
greater degree of fundraising expertise. She indicated that the Commission would value a liaison on occasion to
provide a report.
Dallman mentioned that he would bring this recommendation to the Foundation and probably make a by-law
change at that meeting reflecting the removal of the Park Commission seat. In Dallman’s opinion, based on his
service with the Park Commission, the Foundation made a commitment to the Park Commission to provide aid
for the construction of concessions at Freeman Park, ultimately, a concession that grew into the elaborate Eddy
Station facility.
Meyer asked if the newsletter would carry notice of the Arts and Craft Fair’s need for volunteers.
Dallman explained that the event will be advertised in the local papers, and the Foundation is hopeful that the
event will become well known enough that they will not have to solicit artists next year, people will come to
them looking for display space. The need for volunteers, however, does need to be publicized.
Zerby complimented Dallman and the Foundation on their efforts, and suggested they consider holding the
annual fall Arts and Crafts Fair outdoors at Freeman Park to compliment the spring art in the park program.
Young endorsed his support for volunteers. He encouraged the Foundation to get notice out to those who do
answer the call to volunteer as soon as possible in order to let them know what they will be responsible for.
7. REVIEW MEETING SCHEDULE FOR BALANCE OF 2002
The Park Commission discussed the remaining 2002 schedule as follows:
Chair Arnst pointed out that the park survey would be going out next week.
October 8, 2002 - Koegler will present part one of the master plan for review and Brown will offer a rough
draft Priority Policy for consideration. The Commission will consider scheduling an informational meeting
with the park user groups.
October 22, 2002 - Public Open House to gather comments on the Park Master Plan
November 1, 2002 - The survey results will be available
November 12, 2002 - Review of the near final draft of the Park Master Plan at the Southshore Community
Center, examine survey results, open house comments, and Priority Policy draft
December 10, 2002 - Final approval of Master Plan and Priority Policy to send to Council for endorsement
Brown reiterated that once the Priority Policy is in place and the new Park and Recreation Manager is on
board, year one would be fraught with difficulty.
Bailey stated that Gurban would be a valuable resource to the Commission and City.
Meyers stated that she would like to see the data collection responsibility added to the scope of services for the
Park and Recreation Manager, as well as, the salary range for the position.
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September 17, 2002
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Brown indicated that he felt the Mn. Park and Recreation Association would be a tremendous resource in many
avenues. He suggested the Commission provide the sports organizations an opportunity to review the
information that will be addressed at the user meeting prior to the actual gathering, as they did in the spring.
Callies asked when the ad would run for the position.
Brown believed the position would be advertised in November.
8. NEW BUSINESS
Brown informed the Commission that a concession stand would be running out of the Badger Park warming
house for the football season and Girls Softball would be running concessions at Eddy Station for two
tournament weekends in September.
Brown asked for comment with regard to providing open skating at Eddy Station. Although he was not
convinced there was a need for open skating at Freeman Park, if the Commission felt there was a desire for it at
this location this winter, Brown indicated he would send his public works staff out to grade and ready the
ground.
Chair Arnst suggested they research the demand this winter.
Zerby questioned whether the park survey would shed any light on this matter.
Meyer suggested they monitor feedback, and if the question arises, we tell people that the Commission is
collecting data to measure the need for open skating at this site.
Callies asked if any of the other Commissioners would have interest in sharing the newsletter responsibilities.
Chair Arnst indicated that she had submitted an article for the October newsletter.
Young volunteered to submit an article for the November newsletter.
Chair Arnst suggested further information on the proper removal of Buckthorn be run in the newsletter. She
stated that several residents have been successful cleaning up this nuisance and could be interviewed for
articles. This success is infectious.
Chair Arnst pointed out that the Adopt-a-Garden program had provided the City with a collection of pictures
that could be incorporated into a nice display at the front of City Hall.
Meyers and Chair Arnst both noted that the Shirley Rice Memorial Garden addition was nearly complete and
looked wonderful with the new bench. Chair Arnst passed along one request by the volunteers, which was to
trim the dead lower tree branches from the spruce.
9. ADJOURNMENT
Meyers moved, Palesch seconded, adjourning the Park Commission Meeting of September 17, 2002, at
9:31 P.M. Motion passed 6/0.
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RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Kristi Anderson
Recording Secretary