021103 PK MIN
CITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
PARK COMMISSION MEETING CITY HALL
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 11, 2003 7:00 P.M.
MINUTES
1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
A. Roll Call
Present: Chair Arnst; Commissioners Callies, Davis, Young, Meyer, and late arrival Palesch; City
Engineer Brown and Technician Bailey
Absent: City Council liaison
B. Review Agenda
Callies moved, Young seconded, to approve the Agenda as submitted. Motion passed 5/0.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Park Commission Meeting Minutes of February 4, 2003
Chair Arnst asked that Little League be capitalized on Page 2 under Item 9 New Business.
Meyer moved, Davis seconded, Approving the Park Commission Meeting Minutes of February 4,
2003 as Amended. Motion passed 5/0.
B. Park Commission Work Session Minutes of February 4, 2003
Chair Arnst requested that Old Market Trail on Pages 5 and 6 be changed to Old Market Road.
Davis moved, Young seconded, Approving the Park Commission Work Session Meeting Minutes of
February 4, 2003 as Amended. Motion passed 5/0.
3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
There were none.
Commissioner Palesch arrived at 7:03 P.M.
4. REPORTS
A. City Council Meeting of February 10, 2003
Brown reported that staff had forwarded the Smithtown Road trail recommendation to the Council. He
indicated that Council concerns centered on how the City should spend it’s Minnesota State Aid (MSA)
funding. To clarify MSA funds versus state aid funding, Brown explained that MSA funds are taxes collected
directly at the gas pump for roadways, and make up the backbone of maintenance for collector
PARK COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
Tuesday, February 11, 2003
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streets. He pointed out that $150,000 - $160,000 of MSA funding, plus an additional $50-60,000, is held in
account by the State for construction and maintenance to roadways. While 80% of the state aid funds come
from the City gas taxes, 20% comes from the State’s general fund, which Brown indicated could be cut by the
Governor. State Aid funding, on the other hand, is altogether different and the old HAKA system, which is
money provided to City’s by the state.
Currently, Brown indicated that Shorewood has approximately $2.5 million dollars of MSA funding available,
which virtually matches the $2.2 million price tag for the Smithtown Road project, whereas the County Road
19 intersection project could be in competition for those dollars. Fortunately, the City Council views both
projects as vital to the community and has chosen the Smithtown Road project due to safety concerns.
Brown reported that the City Council directed WSB and staff to choose a design that includes a 5’ concrete
pedestrian space on the north side of Smithtown Road to the Victoria border. Having set a design, Brown
explained that now the City needs to come to agreements with the neighbors in order to obtain ROW (right-of-
way). He pointed out that the City intends to go door to door to gain ROW’s, however, he may end up
reporting back to the City Council at a future date that they need to take an alternate route, if ROW’s cannot be
obtained.
Young questioned whether the eminent domain issue only comes in to play due to the trail need.
Brown indicated that eminent domain, or ROW, is not an issue for 80% of the project, which does fall within
the footprint of the roadway. He pointed out that the need to solve current drainage issues will help in
obtaining the easements in order to solve this problem properly.
Having attended the City Council meeting, Young inquired whether having to obtain easements would slow the
overall process down, since they cannot go forward until the ROW issues have been handled.
While the state aid department has made this statement, Brown felt the City could potentially challenge this.
He pointed out that, while the process could be slowed if there were many eminent domain issues, Brown stated
that the City could invariably leave out certain portions of the pedestrian space if there was total opposition.
5. PARK FOUNDATION PRESENTATION ON THE TWO DESIGN CONCEPTS FOR BUY-
A-BRICK
Gordon Lindstrom, of the Park Foundation, presented two concept designs for the buy-a-brick program layout
at Eddy Station in Freeman Park.
He began with Option 2, which portrayed the bricks next to Eddy Station near an existing patio at a cost of
$9,300.
Option 1, showed a larger area south of the existing playground with a patio leading to a picnic area with,
potentially, a fence and gardens. The estimated cost for Option 1 was $16,000.
While more costly, Lindstrom reported that the Park Foundation would recommend Option 1 to the Park
Commission as the most beneficial design.
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Tuesday, February 11, 2003
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Young questioned how many bricks it would take to accomplish either Option, and asked whether enough
bricks were presently sold to do so.
Lindstrom explained that either option would provide flexibility in adding additional bricks, especially Option
2. While he could not estimate the total number of bricks sold thus far, Lindstrom pointed out that these were
concept plans and requested the Commission recommend which Option it preferred.
Palesch asked whether the money to complete the project was available now, or if the proposal was a two step
plan to be accomplished over time.
Although the funding was currently unavailable, Lindstrom pointed out that the project was in the works and
the Foundation would continue to sell bricks once it had a concept plan to present to buyers.
Chair Arnst stated that the Foundation was in search for a concept plan recommendation this evening. She
asked Lindstrom what the picnic tables were to be made of and whether they were part of the proposal.
Lindstrom was unsure but assumed the tables would be concrete.
Palesch stated that she preferred Option 1, despite the expense.
While Meyer agreed that the Commission preferred Option 1, she asked the Foundation whether the expense
concerned them.
Chair Arnst stated that she favored Option 1 and that, historically, the Commission had believed this space
would be a rest spot for passive use. She believed this to be an attractive oasis and liked the addition of trees to
the space.
Mr. Keeler, of the Park Foundation, stated that the Foundation had sold approximately 75 bricks so far, at a
value of $5,000. He maintained that the Foundation could sell many more bricks if people knew where they
were going to go and what the plan was going to look like. Keeler stated that, while the Foundation could take
care of selling the bricks, he hoped the Commission could lend financial aid to the purchase of benches or trees
for the oasis.
Chair Arnst stated that she would like to see the Commission extend its support of this concept.
Meyer asked if Brown found the maintenance for either option acceptable.
Brown stated maintenance would not be an issue and felt that the designs do an excellent job answering the
issues the Commission had.
Chair Arnst suggested the Foundation speak to the Southshore gardeners and a well know nursery supporter.
Callies stated that she could support the Park Commission contributing to this amenity from the Park
Foundation.
Palesch moved, Davis seconded, to accept Option 1 as the preferred design from the Park Foundation for
the Buy-a-Brick oasis in Freeman Park. Motion passed 6/0.
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Tuesday, February 11, 2003
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Lindstrom indicated that the Park Foundation would be meeting in a couple of weeks and he would report back
to the Commission after that time.
6. SOUTH TONKA BABE RUTH & SOUTH TONKA LITTLE LEAGUE PROPOSALS
Tim Beduhn, of South Tonka Little League and Babe Ruth, presented visuals and a timeline for completion for
four projects it had proposed at the previous Park Commission meeting.
The four projects included retrofitting the bleachers on fields 1, 2, and 3; opening up the concession stand a bit;
installation of safety fencing; and warning tracks.
Beduhn stated that Little League has long had safety concerns regarding the bleachers and would like the
Commission to approve their proposal for retrofitting the bleachers as soon as possible in order to order the
materials and have them fit by mid April. He explained that the options were to replace the bleachers, at a cost
of $3,300 each, or to have them retrofit with chain link fencing 42” up from the back seat at a cost of $2,500
each, which is their preferred plan. The entire cost for fields 1, 2, and 3, which will be paid for by Little
League and Babe Ruth, is $10,650. He added that it is estimated that teams of people will assemble these the
week of April 15-20.
Chair Arnst asked Brown if the any inspection would be required on the City’s part.
Brown indicated that, according to the law, a building official would need to sign off on the retrofit when
complete. He noted that, currently, the City inspects its own playground equipment, and he foresaw this to be a
similar scenario.
Beduhn questioned whether he was correct in assuming they get approval, do the rebuild, and have staff come
out and approve it after the fact.
Brown stated that Beduhn was correct. He pointed out that the retrofitting was a very standard design and that
the chain link would do little to obstruct views.
Meyer moved, Young seconded, to accept the retrofitting design for the bleachers on fields 1, 2, and 3.
Motion passed 6/0.
Meyer thanked Beduhn, Little League, and Babe Ruth for this safety improvement to the park.
Beduhn continued with the proposed safety fencing between fields 1 and 2. He pointed out that they wished to
extend the fence by adding 3 more poles and approximately 75’ of mesh netting. He explained that they felt
this to be the most aesthetically pleasing option, short of covering the entire area by netting like Big Willow in
Minnetonka. He indicated that they hoped to accomplish this in May.
Palesch questioned whether the extension would interfere with traffic patterns.
Beduhn felt it would not, since the traffic could continue behind the fencing.
Brown asked that this be tabled until he could look at this with Mr. Davis, to ensure that maintenance
equipment could maneuver in and out of the area, and that people could circulate without obstruction.
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Tuesday, February 11, 2003
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Callies suggested that they approve the proposal subject to Brown’s determination in order to facilitate this for
Little League and Babe Ruth.
Young moved, Palesch seconded, to accept the installation of additional safety fencing and mesh netting
between fields 1 and 2, subject to staff findings with regard to maintenance equipment maneuverability
and pedestrian circulation patterns. Motion passed 6/0.
Beduhn asked if he should follow-up with Brown on this last issue. Brown confirmed this.
With regard to the Concession stand, Beduhn stated that he would like to talk to Brown at a later date about
getting some effective ventilation in there.
Moving on to Warning Tracks, Beduhn stated that they would like to get this started before the season begins,
however, if weight restrictions or the paving project prohibit this, they would be forced to delay their
installation.
Beduhn asked who would be responsible for moving the sprinkler heads.
Brown indicated that Little League or Babe Ruth would be responsible for moving them.
Beduhn continued by noting that they would not be purchasing a brick in honor of Steve Jaeger, as suggested at
the last Commission meeting, but would instead take some time to come up with a monument plan to present
later.
Chair Arnst thanked Beduhn for his time and indicated that the bleachers would be set for approval at the next
City Council meeting.
Beduhn asked if he could place the order or whether he should wait until after the City Council meeting and
speak to Brown.
Brown suggested they wait to order until after the Council meeting, and indicated that he would bring all of
their topics before the Council at its next meeting.
7. DISCUSS 2003 OPERATION OF CONCESSION STAND
Meyer stated that the operations of Eddy Station were a big consideration for the Commission, however, she
believed that options did exist. First, she felt the Commission should decide whether they don’t want to have
concessions or they do, and second, whether the City should run them again like last year, or offer it to another
organization. Meyer believed that any option would likely cost the City some money to come up to code.
While she did not wish to see Little League closed down, since they make valuable contributions to the park,
she recognized that they fail to meet code as well.
Callies questioned why the City does not have its code issue re-evaluated.
Brown stated that, the best case scenario would be to go back to the County and challenge the first code report.
He maintained that the City could not afford to modify Eddy Station at an additional $50,000-$60,000.
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Unfortunately, Brown stated that if the City challenges the first code report, Little League will undoubtedly be
brought into the spotlight.
Callies asked if Little League had a license to sell concessions.
Brown indicated that anyone needs a vendor’s license to sell more than candy bars and soda, however, Little
League does not have a license to sell what they do. While the health department had indicated to the City that
they were going to investigate the other concession stand last year, they did not do so, and Brown had not
pushed that.
Callies pointed out that, no matter what the Commission chooses to do, it will cost money to look into the
original inspection or appeal what had been said. She asked how they had been led astray in the original
construction of Eddy Station, since they had invested a great deal of money believing they met the requirements
for a concession stand at that time.
Brown stated that it shouldn’t cost that much money to challenge the appeal.
Since this was the Commission’s top priority for the year, Callies maintained that they should hire someone to
follow-up this appeal.
Young pointed out that during interviews for the Coordinator position, one of the interviewees had vast
experience in concessions and had suggested the City have a second inspector come out and investigate this. He
further questioned whom the supervisor was, that the City had relied on, that have given us incomplete advice.
Brown indicated that the advice was not completely inaccurate, it was merely the difference between what was
required by the State versus the County regarding concessions.
If the concessions could be given to soccer, for instance, Meyer questioned whether the City could ask for a
percentage and still make money.
While he was unsure whether the City could overcome the health inspector’s report, Brown felt they could at
least challenge it, and check into getting someone new to come in and run it.
Young asked what sort of response the City got from the original RFQ for concessions.
Brown stated that he was surprised so few concessionaires were in business anymore.
Young asked if it was worth it to pursue the potential interest expressed by Bennett concessions.
Meyer maintained that it would be an issue to the Bennett concessions people that there was a noncompliant
competitor nearby.
Chair Arnst suggested they, step one, appeal the original findings, and step two, pursue any interest. She
questioned what the process of appeal might be.
Brown indicated that he would speak to Attorney Keane next week to get his recommendation, then have staff
follow thru with his suggested process. Brown thought that the City Attorney might even suggest alternatives
that the Commission was unaware of at this time.
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Tuesday, February 11, 2003
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Palesch asked staff to make contact with the MN Park and Recreation association to see if they had
additional advice on this subject.
Meyer reiterated that she did not wish to threaten Little League’s position, however, she would like to see the
City pursue it’s own concessions.
Chair Arnst pointed out that the City would need to talk to Little League, at some point, about the problems it
is having with this facility and the impact it could have on them.
Brown stated that he would approach Mr. Beduhn on the subject over the next several weeks as they talk about
the ventilation issues with their concessions.
Chair Arnst asked Brown to relay to Beduhn the Park Commission’s support for their concession stand.
Young questioned where the original health inspector and his report disappeared.
Chair Arnst stated that it was now the time to reexamine it, and asked Brown to follow-up and give the
Commission a quick update after the Sports Information Meeting on February 25, 2003.
Palesch asked that Meyer act as the liaison or committee leader to investigate the matter.
Meyer stated that she would like additional help.
Callies stated that she would assist Meyer once we have spoken to the City Attorney.
Chair Arnst recapped the suggestion that staff contact the MN Park and Recreation Association, talk to
Attorney Keane, and report back from there.
Palesch felt that turning the concessions over to someone else to run, as long as the City could rely on them,
was a good option.
Davis stated that it is difficult to monitor a cash situation, even with a tape.
Meyer also believed it was good for organizations to have an opportunity to make money.
Depending on what the City would be required to put into the facility for maintenance and what the inspector’s
report says, Brown indicated that it could be worth it to the City, at that point, to run it themselves.
8. CONSIDERATION OF SCHEDULE OF PARK LIAISONS TO CITY COUNCIL
Callies stated that, it was her understanding, the purpose for continuing liaisons was to be discussed at the next work
session with the City Council.
Chair Arnst indicated that the City Council had agreed to meet with the Park Commission in a work session to review
our priorities and goals for 2003.
PARK COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
Tuesday, February 11, 2003
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Callies asked the Commission if they could come to a consensus on how they see the liaison and inform the City
Council of their position.
Palesch agreed, questioning whether it was incumbent upon the Park Commissioners to come to the City Council
meetings to merely read them the Minutes.
Young felt it was redundant also.
Davis indicated that, if the City Council provided them with the same level of interaction as the Park Commission does
with their liaison, it could be useful, however, that is not the case.
Callies disagreed, stating that the Park Commission is it’s own entity and the role of Council member should be limited
to that of liaison and not have the degree of participation at the meeting as if they were another member of the Park
Commission.
Young stated that he hadn’t felt the City Council liaison’s interjected a great deal during discussions.
While Palesch felt the liaison’s purpose was to keep the two entities connected, she believed work sessions would do
the same.
Chair Arnst asked the Commissioners whether they felt the Council member’s presence was inhibiting their
discussions.
Callies felt that their seating right at the table was inappropriate, since they were not members of the Commission.
Chair Arnst maintained that there are times it is important to have a Park Commission liaison present at Council
meetings to explain the Commission’s position on matters, such as the Smithtown Road trail issue.
As the Council never has questions or interaction with those liaisons to warrant their added value, Young questioned
the necessity to have a liaison present that simply rereads the Minutes.
Chair Arnst pointed out that, historically, the Commission has worked hard to get recognition as a valuable entity and
people, she believed this discussion should be heard by the City Council at a work session.
Davis felt this and other things should be addressed at a work session.
Meyer questioned whether the Commission could be the one to ask for this meeting.
Brown indicated that it was interesting to hear the Commission’s feedback.
Chair Arnst stated that she would like to schedule a joint dinner work session meeting to discuss this issues, as well as,
the Commission’s 2003 goals.
Callies maintained that the Commission should be more proactive in setting its own goals and not dependant upon
Council’s validation of its 2003 goals.While she recognized that Council has ultimate control and authority to affect
what occurs, Callies explained that it is important for the integrity of the Park Commission at this level to consider the
issues independently from Council, and likewise for Council.
PARK COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
Tuesday, February 11, 2003
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Brown indicated that there was a good benefit to sharing the Park Commission goals with the City Council, even if
they don’t agree, the Park Commission does not have to take every direction they suggest. He felt that the Commission
had worked hard to earn the respect of Council and maintained that their job was to continue to challenge the Council.
He reiterated that there is always a need for ongoing communication between the various
groups to be aware of each other’s goals.
9. RECOMMENDATION OF CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR FOR 2003
Davis moved, Meyer seconded, to keep Chair Arnst and Vice-Chair Young in their current positions,
with alternate Chair in training. Motion passed 5/1, Young dissenting.
10. NEW BUSINESS
Callies questioned the status of newsletter articles, stating that she was unprepared to continually provide
detailed submissions on an ongoing basis.
Chair Arnst indicated that she would continue to put articles together recapping Park Commission
accomplishments and ongoing updates, whereas, on occasion she would look to others for help.
Chair Arnst pointed out that there continues to be an empty Commissioner’s seat.
Brown stated that there would be a notice in the newsletter, website, and perhaps in the Sun Sailor
publication.
Chair Arnst asked staff whether they had paperwork to accompany any contributions made by sports
organizations over the past 24 months.
Other than the scoreboard for field 2, Brown indicated that there had been no other improvements that he
could think of that would have required paperwork.
With regard to the Cub Foods funds discussed at the last Commission meeting, Brown reported that the
Finance Director had indicated that the City Council had wiped out the Eddy Station debt, therefore, the
new dedication would be put into the park fund, less some minor debt items. He noted that approximately
$20,000 would be available for the Park Commission, as well as, an additional $18,000 from the Lake
Linden Project.
11. ADJOURNMENT
Palesch moved, Davis seconded, Adjourning the Park Commission Meeting of February 11, 2003, at
9:00 P.M. Motion passed 6/0.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Kristi B. Anderson
Recording Secretary