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031103 PK MIN CITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD PARK COMMISSION MEETING CITY HALL TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 2003 7:00 P.M. MINUTES 1 CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING . Chair Arnst called the meeting to order at 7:02 P.M. A. Roll Call Present: Chair Arnst; Commissioners Callies, Meyer, Davis, Young, and late arrival Palesch; City Council liaison Turgeon; City Engineer Brown Absent: None B. Review Agenda Chair Arnst requested that item #8 be removed from the evening’s agenda. Davis moved, Meyer seconded, approving the Agenda as amended. Motion passed 5/0. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. Park Commission Meeting Minutes of February 11, 2003 Callies requested that several changes be made on page 8. First, paragraph 4, line one should read as follows, “…Park Commission is its own entity and the role of Council member should be limited to that of liaison and not have the degree of participation at the meeting as if they were another member of the Park Commission.” Page 8, paragraph 8, should be changed to “Callies felt that their seating right at the table was inappropriate…”. Page 8, paragraph 16, “Callies maintained that the Commission should be more proactive in setting its own goals and not dependant upon Council’s validation of its 2003 goals.” While she recognized that Council has ultimate control and authority to affect what occurs, Callies explained that it is important for the integrity of the Park Commission at this level to consider the issues independently from Council, and likewise for Council. Palesch arrived at 7:05 P.M. Chair Arnst asked that a global search and replacement be made changing Meyers to Meyer throughout the document as well. Davis moved, Callies seconded, approving the Park Commission Meeting Minutes of February 11, 2003, as amended. Motion passed 6/0. B. Park Commission Meeting Minutes of February 25, 2003 Callies moved, Palesch seconded, approving the Park Commission Meeting Minutes of February 25, 2003 as submitted. Motion passed 6/0. PARK COMMISSION AGENDA TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 2003 PAGE 2 OF 10 3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR There were none. 4. REPORTS A. City Council Meeting of March 10, 2003 Brown gave a brief history of the Highway 7 access closure and construction of the Freeman Parking lot #4. As spring was slated for rebidding of the parking lot construction, new concerns arose at the Council meeting last night over the expenditure of money on a parking lot when the City has two costly road projects to fund this year. With both the Smithtown Road and County Road 19 intersection projects looming overhead, and state budgets in flux, Brown stated the City Council believed the estimated $200,000 + could be better spent elsewhere at this time. Brown reported that the City Council decided to hold off on bidding the parking lot project out and directed staff to investigate new funding options. He explained that a letter to this affect would be sent to the Shorewood Pond residents. Having already told the sports organizations that 76 additional spots would be available this year with the construction of the new lot, Young asked how these users might react to this news. Brown stated that he would check into expanding the gravel parking area for now until funding was available, and further explore other alternatives. Turgeon stated that Council found itself asking how it could justify spending $200,000 on a parking lot when the City has two other huge projects to consider. She reiterated that Brown would be coming back with alternate plans, which might include a gravel area like that of the north lot. For review, Chair Arnst pointed out that 5 years ago, MnDOT was willing to give the City $50,000 to close the Highway 7 access, which would have covered the cost of the new parking lot at that time, however, in not accepting that offer, the price for the parking lot has doubled or even tripled since then. While Brown agreed that the City could have accomplished the closure and parking lot construction five years ago, it did not do so, and now is forced to investigate other options, such as posts, gravel, etc. Chair Arnst questioned whether the City had committed to a black topped parking lot to the Shorewood Pond residents. Since the original brochure that Shorewood Pond residents received showed a black topped lot, Brown indicated that it might be difficult to explain to the residents that this cannot be done at this time due to the state of the economy. While Chair Arnst also felt uncomfortable spending $250,000 on a parking lot, given the economy, she encouraged staff to inform the sports organizations of the change as well. PARK COMMISSION AGENDA TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 2003 PAGE 3 OF 10 With regard to the Smithtown Road and trail project, Brown reported that a letter, or petition of sorts, was dropped off to the City Council accompanied by 15 or more residents opposed to the project. That being said, he stated that staff continues to meet with property owners and has had several positive responses to their contacts. He reminded the Commission that this continues to be a mixed process, with a 50/50 split of support and opposition. Brown promised to keep the Commission updated, as most of the meetings with the affected residents would take place by the end of the week. He hoped to provide a report at the next City Council meeting which identifies each of the neighbor’s positions. Davis asked if anyone at the Council meeting mentioned to those opposed attendees that they’ve had numerous opportunities to voice their position. As a matter from the floor and a very volatile subject, Turgeon stated that this was not the forum to debate the project. In two weeks this item will be put on the Council agenda to discuss further. After reviewing their submission, Young asked where these astounding statistics had come from. He questioned where these individuals had been throughout the process and why they had not voiced their opposition until now. He felt that surely the Commission would not have supported passage of the project had they known 83% opposed it. Brown stated that, in his opinion, the statistics don’t necessarily add up to what he is hearing as he approaches people independently. Young reiterated his astonishment that, after years and numerous attempts to hear from these people, it isn’t until now that they have come out to voice their opposition. Chair Arnst asked if staff had met with these people. Brown stated that staff is now aware of those in opposition to the project and will not approach them. He stated that, in typical road improvement projects, a 30-35% range of participation is unheard of, whereas, the City has succeeded and should be proud of engaging up to 40% of the affected people and getting their participation throughout the process. Turgeon argued that these individuals opposed to the project should have submitted their statistics long ago, or even last night, but they have failed to do so. She questioned what value the statistics could have at this point in time as the process has already evolved beyond a certain level. Young inquired how the item would be addressed on the next City Council agenda. Turgeon stated that the next time the Council reviews this issue, it will be a matter of reviewing Brown’s report of support and opposition which will be used to decide whether the City moves forward with the project or not. She saw no value in delaying the project or taking a step backward at this point after 5 years into the process. PARK COMMISSION AGENDA TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 2003 PAGE 4 OF 10 B. Concession Stand Review Memo from Twila Grout - Brown indicated that, according to Twila Grout’s memo, Jon Gurban of the Mn. Park and Recreation Association reported that many communities are getting out of the concession operation business and leaving it to sports organizations or nonprofit groups to lease. Update on Appeal Process with Health Dept.- Larry Brown, Public - Works Director Brown reported that the appeal process has begun and that a formal submittal for re-review of the original report has been made by Attorney Keane. Chair Arnst asked how long the appeal process would take and emphasized the time sensitivity of the situation. Based on her past experience, Chair Arnst inquired whether the City Attorney would need City Council direction to move forward with this appeal. Brown stated that the Attorney is making an application to the Health Department for a new review, as well as, repeal of the old decision. Brown was hesitant to challenge the Attorney further, knowing his current obligations to the City. Meyer indicated that she foresaw no way for the city to profitably run the concessions stand this year. In the first place, no money is available to make improvements to comply with the standards. st Secondly, any information from the attorney on the appeal will not be available until after April 1, and that seems to be just the start to the appeal process. She believed that until the city can sell more than pop and candy bars, this is not going to be a profitable situation for the city. Brown encouraged the Commission to continue the review process, stating that at least, the concessions would not operate at a loss this year if no progress was made. Young inquired whether Little League, or any of the other organizations, had expressed an inkling of interest to operate the concessions. After obtaining the Health Department report, he encouraged the Commission to offer the concession operations to one of these organizations for a minimal flat fee. Chair Arnst asked whether the City could solicit interest of the sports organization concession at the north end of the park to run concessions here, stating that she did not want to lose money this year. Chair Arnst encouraged Brown to challenge the City Attorney and his staff to move this forward as it is a time sensitive issue to the Commission and she did not wish to see it delayed. PARK COMMISSION AGENDA TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 2003 PAGE 5 OF 10 Brown pointed out that, while he would do his best to work through the Attorney and his staff, he reminded the Commission that the Attorney currently has 33 active issues he is tending for the City. Although Turgeon stated that she could bring a message that time is of the essence back to the Council, they would not be meeting for two weeks and therefore time would be lost. She reminded the Commission that the City Council has slated the concession for review in October. Palesch felt the concession operation should be offered to nonprofit or sports organizations from the standpoint that the Health Department seems to turn a blind eye to their operations. Chair Arnst asked Brown to solicit interest from the 3-4 sports organizations at Freeman and report back at the April 8 meeting. Meyer maintained that once the sports organizations realize that there is money to be made here, this could be positive for the community. She suggested that contact be made and that the sports organizations submit a letter of interest prior to the next meeting, which she and Commissioner Callies could follow up on. C. Update on Park Coordinators and First Weeks of Operation – Larry Brown Brown reported that things have gone very well, and to date, over 99% of the documentation has been submitted by the sports organizations, a process that in the past had typically required 8 weeks to accomplish. Although, in his opinion, the meeting was a success, Brown anticipates that after the th schedules are complete the week of March 24, there will be some grumbling over the changes being made. A first draft for the schedules will be reviewed soon. Chair Arnst asked about the status of the software for the park coordinators. Brown reported that, after much review by Community Rec Resources, a software program has been purchased by the City for their use. He noted that web site links will also be added to the Shorewood site that sports organizations can visit to see scheduling changes and rainouts as they occur. He reported that Community Rec Resources has also established a good rapport and opened the lines of communication with MCES’s new representative, Carol Shear. In fact, MCES has stated that they would continue to carry a voicemail link for Shorewood parks via their phone line for the sports organizations to access. Chair Arnst asked if Brown felt he was being alleviated of the sports organizations and scheduling pressures of the past. Brown indicated that the City is taking positive steps along that path and he still believes that year one will be a challenge with regard to scheduling, parking, and education issues. He stated that he was excited to see where this was headed and had a positive outlook. 5. CAPESTONE PONDS P.U.D. – RECOMMENDATIONS REGARDING TRAIL Applicant: Capestone Builders Location: 20775 Manor Road (Carmichael Auto Salvage) PARK COMMISSION AGENDA TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 2003 PAGE 6 OF 10 Reporting for Nielsen, Brown explained that the City has received a 12 unit development proposal for the property currently occupied by Carmichael’s Auto Salvage. Since that time, Greenwood residents to the west of the subject property have suggested that the City either require the developer to construct a trail or sidewalk along Manor Road, or the City should use its park dedication fees of $36,000 to assist Greenwood in constructing such a trail. Brown pointed out that the twin home units in the project would be oriented to Excelsior Boulevard on the east side of the parcel, and that it would be difficult to require any developer to install off-site improvements, such as those the Greenwood residents have proposed for Manor Road. Brown pointed out that, given the limited financial resources of the park fund, there was some question to using that money for a trail that would be of little benefit to Shorewood residents. Furthermore, Brown displayed pictures of the terrain along Manor Road which clearly underscored the difficulty in locating a trail along Manor Road. Chair Arnst clarified the Greenwood resident’s position, which would be to have Shorewood build a trail in Greenwood with Shorewood’s own park dedication funds on the Greenwood side of the road. Brown confirmed her interpretation and questioned Greenwood’s rationale for the trail on either side, yet alone the Greenwood side, of the road given the topography. Chair Arnst inquired what Greenwood was proposing to add to the pool for the trail construction. Brown indicated that he had not heard of any contribution by Greenwood for the construction project. He questioned why Greenwood would presuppose that Shorewood would support putting their money, tight as it is, into building a trail in Greenwood, especially when the twinhomes themselves fall on the eastern portion of the property existing onto Excelsior Boulevard. He pointed out that the destinations along Manor Road don’t seem to exist, nor does the traffic warrant the need for a trail. Chair Arnst maintained that, in her opinion, based on the terrain, the proposed trail would be costly. While she would be willing to consider a small token donation to Greenwood in its efforts to build a trail, she had difficulty justifying the need for a $500,000 trail for a limited number of people. Based on the discussion, Brown asked the Commission if it would be there consensus this would not be a high priority item. The Commission agreed. Palesch moved, Davis seconded, that the proposed trail plan for Capestone Ponds was not a priority for the Park Commission to take into consideration at this time. Motion passed 6/0. 6. LRT CLEAN-UP DAY A. Discuss Feasibility of Doing Joint Clean Up With City of Excelsior and Three Rivers Park District PARK COMMISSION AGENDA TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 2003 PAGE 7 OF 10 Chair Arnst reported that, based on a contact from Lucille Crow of Excelsior, an effort was made to get in touch with the Three Rivers Park District, the County, and Excelsior to promote a joint clean-up effort between the three for the LRT. She stated that little interest from the County has been expressed for this joint effort and that the Park District had merely given the City the go ahead to clean up the trail. In Callies view, the Park District and County sound happy to have the City go in and clean up all the junk, but have offered little in terms of a partnership to do so. Chair Arnst indicated that most of the debris and trash are near the Excelsior border and that dog feces would be the biggest problem facing Shorewood. She felt the initial suggestion had become considerably more entangled than first thought, and was hesitant to start something visible in the public eye which says it’s okay to dump, because the City will clean it up. Callies suggested that the City run newsletter articles encouraging residents of the trails to clean up their yards and/or perhaps embarrass those who do use the trail for public dumping. As a wetland and trailside resident with firsthand familiarity with the problem, Davis volunteered to write the article. 7. CITY’S DOG ORDINANCE A. Determine if Dogs should be required to be on a leash on the Southwest LRT trail Turgeon explained that a recent letter received by a Shorewood resident sparked the dog leash ordinance debate. Although the Three Rivers Park District requires a 6 foot leash on the LRT in the summer months, she indicated that, during the winter months, the trails become Shorewood jurisdiction which allows a 10 foot leash and/or voice command. The City Council has proposed a change in the Ordinance which would match the Three Rivers Park District 6’ leash requirement making this a year round requirement. Turgeon asked the Commission for their thoughts on the language of the proposed Ordinance and whether the Commission felt the Ordinance went far enough in its requirements. Chair Arnst indicated that, in her view, trails and parks should be viewed separately. She believed the biggest problem was that people don’t clean up after their pets and felt the addition of mandatory receptacles in an owner’s possession should be added to the Ordinance. Chair Arnst shared the sentiments expressed by one Smithtown resident, who voiced concern that, with a trail in their yard, pet owners would leave messes behind. Callies stated that irresponsible pet owners leave a mess behind whether they walk on a sidewalk or in the street, as in her neighborhood. While she felt the City should be consistent in its Ordinances, she recognized the need for better enforcement. Davis pointed out that she was cited in Minnewashta for not having a receptacle for her pets’ waste only minutes after using the one she had with her. PARK COMMISSION AGENDA TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 2003 PAGE 8 OF 10 Chair Arnst asked for a recommendation which would require receptacles and 6’ leashes at all times. Furthermore, she encouraged Turgeon to relay to Council that an ounce of enforcement would be beneficial at the parks and trails on occasion. Meyer asked if new signage would be necessary. Chair Arnst indicated that dog owner education was a 2003 priority for the Park Commission, and felt the Commission would need to develop a plan for signs and education. Davis moved, Callies seconded, that the Ordinance requires 6’ leashes on the LRT, recommends leashes in Public Parks and pedestrian spaces, and requires pet owners to have receptacles in their possession at all times. Further discussion centered on the term recommends, as Meyer felt this was not strong enough language. Callies suggested investigation is done to determine what other cities require, she could support shorter leashes on trails and sidewalks and longer ones in the parks. Davis amended her earlier motion to state, the requirement for 6’ leashes on all trails, sidewalks, and the LRT, and that pets be leashed at all times in public parks, as well as, the requirement for receptacles in pet owners’ possession at all times. Motion passed 6/0. B. Consider Adding Language to Ordinance That Clean Up Receptacle is Required 8. TRAIL PLANNING PROCESS A. Clarify the term “Consensus” per Smithtown Road Pedestrian Space Discussions Removed from the Agenda. 9. DISCUSS CONCEPT FOR PARK COMMISSION SEMINAR As suggested during the 2003 goal setting session, Chair Arnst discussed ideas for a Park Commission Seminar with the objective of bringing together park advisory groups, liaisons, board members, staff people, and commissioners etc. for the purpose of training, motivating, educating, and networking. Since that time, in conversations with John Gurban, of the Mn. Park and Recreation Association, he voiced his enthusiasm to partner with Shorewood in this endeavor. Although the format was yet to be determined, she felt there were many things this Commission has accomplished that the bigger cities are not doing yet and are unique or of interest to other communities, such as, the user fees, equity policy, park coordinator position. Chair Arnst felt the Commission had much to share, as did most other communities, and this would provide a workshop opportunity to share resources. She asked the Commission whether there was interest to move forward with this proposal as leaders in the Park Commission world and encouraged volunteers to step forward and assist her in this endeavor. PARK COMMISSION AGENDA TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 2003 PAGE 9 OF 10 Brown concurred, reiterating that Shorewood is fortunate to have such a progressive thinking Park Commission and he was amazed that when asked for samples of equity policies etc, John Gurban and other communities had nothing to offer that was as comprehensive as what the Shorewood Commission had created. Brown complimented the Shorewood Commission on its cutting edge philosophies and felt this seminar would provide a good opportunity to network with other communities. Davis asked if the Commission would charge for this event. Chair Arnst felt that they could charge, say $15, for the seminar and a box lunch. Meyer felt this to be a win/win for everyone involved. Callies stated that, while she would like to assist in its execution, she felt they should limit the event geographically. Chair Arnst stated that Mn. Park and Recreation does nothing like this and was eager to partner in this effort. She suggested the use of the Southshore Senior Center for the workshop. She pointed out that in the past, the Planning Commission has hosted a similar successful event for 14 communities. Turgeon pointed out that at a recent convention she had attended with other Council members from various communities, she took pride in the fact that Shorewood’s Park Commission was beyond those of larger cities. After hearing numerous Council members report they would be cutting back on park services within their communities, Turgeon shared with them how the Shorewood Park Commission has initiated a park user fee and other fundraising efforts. She stated that many cities expressed interest in learning how Shorewood does it and would like to be given the opportunity to hear first hand how to initiate programs in their own Cities. Chair Arnst and the Commission agreed that this would be a good avenue to pursue in a year that funding is limited. 10. DETERMINE DATE FOR JOINT WORK SESSION WITH CITY COUNCIL Brown suggested April 8 for a potential joint work session with the City Council. Commissioners Callies and Davis indicated that they would not be available on that date. Brown stated that he would work to propose an alternate date. 11. DETERMINE COUNCIL LIAISON FOR NEXT CITY COUNCIL MEETING Meyer stated that she would attend the next March City Council meeting. 12. NEW BUSINESS Chair Arnst asked if any Park Commission applications had been received. Brown indicated that the City had not received any applications for the position. Chair Arnst suggested they contact applicants from the last Planning Commission application process to see if there might be interest generated form those applicants. PARK COMMISSION AGENDA TUESDAY, MARCH 11, 2003 PAGE 10 OF 10 Chair Arnst asked Brown to update the Base Cost Data sheet he had compiled several years ago which reflects the cost for basic services within the City, including turf care, maintenance, etc. She felt the new dollar figures would be shocking. Chair Arnst if Brown had heard anything further with regard to the ventilation problems at the Little League concession booth. Brown stated that he had not heard anything further from Little League regarding this matter. . Chair Arnst questioned the status of the sports organization park donation formsBrown reported that the scoreboard is the only outstanding donation at this time. 13. ADJOURNMENT Young moved, Palesch seconded, adjourning the March 11, 2003 Park Commission Meeting at 8:47 P.M. Motion passed 6/0. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED, Kristi B. Anderson Recording Secretary