070808 PK MIN
ND
CITY OF SHOREWOOD 26655 WEST 62 STREET
PARK COMMISSION MEETING CATHCART PARK
TUESDAY, JULY 8, 2008 7:00 P.M.
MINUTES
MEET WITH CHANHASSEN PARK COMMISSION TO REVIEW CATHCART
PARK
1.CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
Chair Davis convened the Park Commission Meeting at 7:00 p.m. noting that the
Chanhassen Park Commission members would be arriving shortly for a brief meeting.
A. Roll Call
Present: Chair Davis, Commissioners Young, Hensley, Norman, Trent, Quinlan, and
DeMers; City Engineer Landini; late arrival Council member Bailey
B. Review Agenda
Item 7.1.A, review layout plans for Cathcart and Badger Parks, were added to the agenda.
Young moved, Chair Davis seconded, approving the Agenda as amended. Motion
passed 7/0.
THE CHANHASSEN PARK COMMISSION ARRIVED WITH DIRECTOR TODD
HOFFMAN AT 7:10PM FOR A BRIEF MEETING
Landini stated that the 1993 Agreement between the Cities of Shorewood and Chanhassen
showed that while the park is located within Chanhassen city limits and exists on their park
maps, it is owned by the City of Shorewood. The agreement states that Chanhassen pays for
all green maintenance and trees, while Shorewood pays for the infrastructure and capital
improvements.
Hoffman added that the church across the street deeded the park to the City of Shorewood.
Chair Davis welcomed the Commission and asked for their thoughts on Cathcart Park, its
condition, and amenities. She noted that the tennis courts were in horrendous condition and
that a recent write in campaign to save the courts by neighbors have the Commission
considering what to do with them.
Hoffman stated that, in his opinion, the courts did not look too bad. He pointed out that
Cathcart, similar to many of Chanhassen’s community parks, has much to offer even though
tennis courts require significant capital investments. Those high costs are why Chanhassen has
chosen to only install courts in its largest parks, rather than its neighborhood parks.
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TUESDAY, JULY 8, 2008
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Norman asked Chanhassen members what amenities they are updating in their parks.
One commissioner stated that adding a shelter and pad have been a high priority, while many
others offer half court basketball. He encouraged Shorewood to consider a shelter with
bathroom facilities.
Council member Bailey arrived at 7:15pm
Hoffman stated that trails both internal, within the parks themselves, and external, connecting
the parks to the rest of the community, have been a number one priority. He noted that it has
been their policy to give every resident half mile access to a park and that each park offer a
little different flavor. He acknowledged that Cathcart is a good size neighborhood park with
much to offer.
Another Chanhassen commissioner complimented Cathcart for its variety of amenities noting
that it is more similar to a community park than a neighborhood park. He suggested
Shorewood not only consider the shelter they’d referenced but a shelter/warming house
combo.
Hoffman suggested Shorewood contact Dermco for its tennis court resurfacing project. He
stated that the court seemed to be in good condition for a small public court and that he
would not consider removing the court now.
Hensley asked what the highest use park amenity in Chanhassen was.
Hoffman stated it would be the trails and skate park. He acknowledged that the true purpose
of a neighborhood park is to build community.
One Chanhassen commissioner asked if the City of Shorewood had any plans to add trail to
connect Powers Boulevard thru Shorewood to Excelsior. He urged the Commission to add
trails using state and county right of ways or whenever a road is redone. He stated that there
is no choice and that trails must be a priority and added whenever possible since they are the
number one use.
Chair Davis thanked the Chanhassen Park Commission for their input and returned to the
regular meeting at their departure.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Park Commission Meeting Minutes of June 10, 2008
Hensley moved, Young seconded, approving the Park Commission Meeting minutes
of June 10, 2008, as submitted. Motion passed 7/0.
3. REPORTS
A. Report on City Council Meeting of June 9 and 23, 2008
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TUESDAY, JULY 8, 2008
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The June 9 meeting had been discussed at a previous Commission meeting. At the June
rd
23 meeting, a new City Administrator had been hired and the Council approved well
capping for the Sate Park with funding coming from the Water Fund.
Norman asked what the future of the property was behind City Hall. He also asked about
the Woodhaven property across town, as there are no real parks on that side of
Shorewood.
Bailey stated that he would prefer the property behind city Hall be sold, personally, but
that this question had yet to be raised.
Young stated that he would like to table starting the construction of a new park from
scratch on the Woodhaven property or anywhere else when we have so many existing
parks with so many needs that adding something else to the plate would be too much.
Chair Davis stated that she could see starting the discussion about trails up again, painful
as it was, but more and more people are demanding them and might be open to the
discussion.
Hensley concurred, stating that, at minimum, a priority should be to plan for trails so that
we can connect the dots within Shorewood via trails. He believed that a master plan
should exist which states we’d like to have parks within half a mile of all residents or at
least keep the land near City Hall for potential add-on park use.
Chair Davis asked staff to supply Commissioners with master plans so that they can
review them for discussion.
Young commented that, while he liked the idea of trails, and a trail along Smithtown Road
made sense at the time, the Commission was burned badly the last time around.
B. Community Rec Resources Update on Field Monitoring and
Observations
Kristi Anderson, of Community Rec Resources (CRR), was in attendance to share
observations with regard to field use at Freeman Park this spring/summer. Acknowledging
the attendance of Council member Bailey, an active past board member for girls’ softball,
she encouraged him to shed light on these observations with regard to field use as well.
Anderson pointed out that, based on ongoing park monitoring and discussions with the
concessionaire, overall usage at Freeman was down somewhat significantly this
spring/summer, as well as time reserved at Manor Park. As part of the Park Coordinator
services it is CRR’s duty to ensure via the park priority policy that fair and equitable use
of the parks is being observed, in addition the policy was created to ensure that scheduled
use was being made of the facilities, otherwise this time should be relinquished and made
available to other users.
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Anderson pointed out that since the construction of the new girls’ softball facility this past
year many of the younger players, whose families frequented the concessions at Eddy
Station and used the fields, have been absent. This lighter use of Freeman facilities begs
the question of CRR and the Park Commission whether the field space should be made
available and opened up to new users next year. Even though the field space was reserved
via user fees by girls softball, CRR pointed out that the fee alone was not the desired
result, it is CRR’s duty to monitor and ensure that there is active field use of the facilities
as part of the priority policy so that desirable fields are not sitting empty.
Anderson was unsure whether this would be an ongoing issue next year but wished to
make the Commission aware of the situation so that fields in the 2009 season would be
assigned to those who commit to use. She acknowledged that there is a huge history
which accompanies the creation of the priority policy and the City’s desire to provide fair
and equitable use of its facilities. She cautioned reserving space, which will go unused
even if it is paid for, when others would be happy to pick up the unused time for their
organization.
Bailey explained that there was a leadership change for MGSA girls’ softball this year, as
well as a shift of some of the players to the new facility which impacted the number of
teams and players using the fields in Shorewood. In addition, he stated that the early
season scheduling meeting did not occur which left much space unused. He stated that mid
season he caught the mistake of unused time and spoke with the leadership at which time
they tried to utilize some of the space reserved at Freeman more effectively. He indicated
that there was a mistake made this year and that he does not anticipate this problem next
year as many new board members get up to speed.
Chair Davis thanked Anderson for keeping the Commission posted.
Hensley stated that he believed the problem would work itself out given another year
especially since the time is paid for, MGSA acknowledges that they do not want to waste
it either.
C. Update on Skate Park Well Being Capped
As reported earlier the well would be capped using monies from the Water Fund.
D. Update on Summer Children’s Programs
Chair Davis stated that it appears the children’s programs had gone well so far. She
rd
questioned why so few kids signed up to participate in the 3 Lair event and whether the
City would be losing a deposit for both weeks. With Big Walter scheduled to perform at
Freeman on Friday, she urged staff to check to confirm and make sure Famous Dave’s is
prepared to have enough food for the show, especially with Secretary Grout out this week
to do it herself.
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4. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
There were none.
5. TENNIS COURT PRESENTATION – DERMCO – follows item #6.
6. AUTHORIZE FUNDS FOR SOIL BORINGS AT CATHCART PARK AND
MANOR PARK
Landini explained that soil borings were recommended for Cathcart and Manor Parks for
the rink lights and further construction projects.
Norman asked whether the lights at Manor were adequate as long as the one leaning light
pole was straightened.
Landini stated that by doing the soil borings at the same time there is a cost savings, as
opposed to doing one now and the other at a later date. He pointed out that to drop the
borings at either park would not be much cost savings because you would need a boring
to construct a warming house shelter at Cathcart or to add-on to the Manor shelter in any
event even if the Commission felt borings for the lights were not necessary.
DeMers stated that he thought Director Brown had indicated that the Public Works staff
would be able to straighten the pole without replacing all the lights at Manor.
Landini suggested the Commission only focus on replacing the lights at Badger this year
anyway, due to budgets, as opposed to replacing the lights at all three parks which would
eat up much of the budget.
Norman agreed the borings might supply the City with good information in case we want
to build shelters and/or warming houses at these parks.
Young moved, Norman seconded, to approve the authorization of expenditure of
funds from the Park Capital Improvement Funds for soil borings at Manor Park
and Cathcart Park not to exceed $4,400.
Hensley stated that if this were his own property he would not have soil borings done until
he had a plan in place of exactly where pads and poles would need to go.
Landini stated that it is likely they will need a spread footing at Badger, similar to the
football lighting, but he was not sure if Cathcart would require the same.
Hensley stated that the free skate area at Cathcart was poor last year and that a new layout
is necessary, but without a plan, Hensley stated that he would vote no to go ahead with
borings until he sees a plan and layout for the park.
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TUESDAY, JULY 8, 2008
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Trent stated that he felt borings could help them in their planning process for the park
layout.
Quinlan stated that the rink itself is not going anywhere else and borings will be helpful.
Landini stated that the free skate park lights would be moveable, provided enough wire is
allowed.
Motion passed 6/1, Hensley dissenting.
5.con’t TENNIS COURT PRESENTATION – DERMCO
Dwight Charles of Dermco, explained how a tennis court works and is laid out. A court is
typically 60X120 (running North and South) built on 6” of class 5 and 3” of asphalt,
which is then color coated. He pointed out that tennis courts are not maintenance free
items and should be redone every 3-5 years.
With regard to repairs, Charles stated that this court is not in that bad of shape
comparatively to many others he sees.
1. The simplest or cheapest repair is to clean it and patch it. Cracks are another
matter, due to movement, even the repaired cracks will reappear as hairline
st
cracks the 1 year, then wide in consecutive years. ‘Birdbaths’, or low spots,
must be patched to keep them to a minimum. Areas around posts can be
feathered out or the concrete can be removed, the posts lowered, and replaced
for an additional fee. To resurface: $5600-5700. To reclaim posts and concrete
an additional: $1600-1700
2.While repairing offers varying degrees of success, removing the entire court and
rebuilding it costs approximately $30,000
3.Sand filled turf is another option, though it is a bit slower surface, it runs about
$30,000,
4.Plastic tile surface, as done in Eden Prairie and Apple Valley, will run in the
$30,000 range
5.A brand new court will cost roughly $45,000
6.To demolish and get rid of the existing court will run about $15,000
Trent asked when the best time to resurface a court is.
Charles stated that obviously the best time to resurface is in the early spring in order to get
a full season use out of the surface before winter weather impacts the new surface again.
Typically in early May, the repair process only takes 3-4 days, beyond these repairs there
PARK COMMISSION MINUTES
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are other spendy options including laying fabric over the entire current surface and laying
new asphalt for around $24,000.
Chair Davis asked what success they’ve seen with these options.
Charles stated that there are once again varying degrees of success, and in fact a snow
covered court with constant cold temperatures over the winter are best for a court as
opposed to the drastic temperature changes we saw this previous year. He noted that the
Cathcart court had obviously not been redone for a very long time, based on its condition
and overlay, possibly 12 years plus.
Hensley asked when Dermco could get to this court.
Charles stated that they probably could not repair this court until late July using a three
coat system, patching, then adding a final layer of black and sand to hide every flaw,
followed by 2 coats of color on top and the court lines. He indicated that there is a repair
kit of sorts if public works wanted to touch up the court themselves after 1-2 years in
between the regular repair cycle, but the patches would show and the color would not
match the faded surface. He reiterated the importance of putting courts into a regular
repair cycle, as they are not maintenance free, rotating between parks is critical. Charles
stated that he cycles through the numerous tennis courts for both Chanhassen and Maple
Grove.
Chair Davis asked Charles to put together a bid for Cathcart, and Manor as well if it
would be close, for resurfacing early next spring, as well as, getting the other courts at
Badger on a cycle.
Charles stated that rather than drive all over looking at similar courts within cities, he
already had looked at Manor Court, and based on its size and layout, he could estimate it
to be the same price as Cathcart. He pointed out that, in looking at the condition of
Cathcart, if the cracks have been there as long as 10 years, the surface may be done
shifting by now and patching may be all it needs.
Charles suggested a 6 year cycle as adequate, and using a one color system, as this is more
affordable and saves approximately $250 more than installing the previous two color
system.
Chair Davis thanked Charles for taking the time to come out and stated they looked
forward to a 2009 installation once the bids were received.
Hensley stated that a mere $5600-6000 per court resurface estimate was a no brainer to
move forward with in his opinion.
7. AUTHORIZE FUNDS FOR RINK LIGHTS AT THE FOLLOWING
PARKS
A. Badger Park
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Landini stated that he would highly recommend the rink lights at Badger be replaced since
one of them actually fell down.
Young moved, Norman seconded, recommending approval of the installation of rink
lighting at Badger Park not to exceed $49,999. Motion passed 7/0.
Landini stated that staff would return with final cost numbers at the next meeting and will
take the recommendation to the July 14 City Council meeting for their approval.
B. Cathcart Park
Norman stated that he would like to see a complete estimate for all wiring and lighting at
Cathcart before going forward, especially if the Commission thinks it might like to create a
new layout for the park. He felt he would prefer to see the boring results before
proceeding with a recommendation.
The Commission concurred.
Chair Davis suggested the Commission hold a work session to look at the master plans of
these parks and look at realistic figures and estimates for the repairs and proposed
expansions.
Charles, of Dermco, still present, interjected that he would like to see a warming house
and shelter combo similar to Manor Park for Cathcart as well.
Chair Davis suggested the discussion for Cathcart and Manor Park rink lighting and layout
be tabled for the work session. In the meantime, she once again asked staff to supply the
Commissioners with master plans for these parks to start reviewing and making
suggestions for discussion.
NEW BUSINESS
Chair Davis wished to acknowledge a series entitled State of the Parks 2008, a collection
series she had been putting together with Norman’s assistance, documenting the condition
of all parks, their improvements and needs. She noted that she was in the process of
putting the series into a powerpoint presentation. As funding will be a problem going
forward, she pointed to the need to start a dialogue with the Council regarding funding
going forward. In addition, she felt a dialogue must begin to discuss the future of trails and
how these will be funded. She urged the Commissioners to add their thought and ideas,
especially once they view the powerpint.
As the budget process has begun, Bailey encouraged Davis to look at presenting her
powerpoint via a work session to the Council sometime in August. He noted that levy
limits have been imposed for the next three years, which limits increases to 3.9%
therefore funding will be a difficult piece for many in the coming years.
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8. DETERMINE LIAISON FOR CITY COUNCIL MEETING ON JULY 14
Chair Davis volunteered to be liaison and would propose an August work session to the
City Council.
9. ADJOURN
Hensley moved, Young seconded, adjourning the Park Commission Meeting of July
8, 2008, at 9:25p.m. Motion passed 7/0.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Kristi B. Anderson
Recorder