051209 PK MIN
CITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB RD
PARK COMMISSION MEETING SHOREWOOD CITY HALL
TUESDAY, MAY 12, 2009 7:00 P.M.
MINUTES
1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
Chair Norman called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
A. Roll Call
Present: Chair Norman; Commissioners Davis,
DeMers, Quinlan, Robb, and
Edmondson; City Council liaison Woodruff; Public Works Director Brown; Park
Coordinator Anderson; Park Secretary Grout; and City Administrator Heck
Absent: Commissioner Trent
B. Review Agenda
Davis moved, Edmondson seconded, approving the Agenda as submitted. Motion passed 6/0.
2. CONSULTANTS TKDA PRESENTATION
Chair Norman welcomed TKDA representatives Buss and Gray back for their formal
presentation. He asked Park Coordinator Anderson to take detailed notes of the meeting for
perpetuity sake and so that future Commissions understand the direction the current Commission
was taking considering these options. Norman also pointed out that the illustrations were not
written in stone, and should be considered as alternatives or options for the parks. He urged the
Commission to look at the designs with an open mind and save their major comments with regard
to cost or feasibility for a later discussion. With that, he asked the Commissioners to share
comments with him via email that they did not feel comfortable voicing this evening.
Buss stated that they would be providing additional detail with regard to phasing and a general
report of the process to be inserted into the Master Plans in the coming weeks. She stated that
they would also provide notes from all of their meetings with Shorewood and their rationale for
proposing certain elements.
Woodruff stated that the narrative would be valuable from TKDA as it would document the
process executed to reach the final design points. He asked that the tapes of the meeting be
archived with the notes and plans for future reference.
BADGER PARK
Gray stated that, originally, they had touched on two plans at the last meeting but felt the
consensus was to pursue this option with the removal of the hockey rink and addition of the
village green campus for the City Hall complex. He noted the addition of a sculpture fountain and
revised picnic shelter.
Chair Norman stated that the picnic shelter should house bathrooms.
Gray suggested the picnic areas be surrounded with benches, potentially public art, gardens of
ornamental plantings, a boardwalk, rustic trail system around the perimeter of the park, and
smaller paved areas.
Edmondson stated that he liked the integrated rock elements.
Gray stated that pavers would segue to bituminous or natural paths and walkways.
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As she did not feel there was a true consensus at the previous meeting as to which option the
Commission preferred, Anderson asked why both plans A and B were not pursued for this
evening’s presentation. She reminded the Commission that the Badger ice rinks were highly used
and voted one of the top ice skating areas in the south lake area.
Buss stated that they believed a majority of the Commission preferred option B.
Robb asked if the pond area would lend itself well for viewing.
Chair Norman pointed out that if the pond wetland area were cleaned up and landscaped to open
it up, it would provide a nice platform for viewing. He stated that he was aware that not everyone
within the community would support the removal of the hockey rink here to consider alternate
sites. He reiterated that the plans provide some dramatic changes but of these alternatives we can
pick and choose pieces that could be done.
Buss stated that, typically, change is hard but well worth the discussion.
Brown asked whether TKDA calculated the pricing based on the potential soil conditions.
Buss urged Brown to share conditions with them that might impact their estimates.
FREEMAN PARK
Gray pointed out the added hockey rink and free skate area which creates a complex utilizing the
beautiful Eddy Station warming house facility. He highlighted the additional basketball and
tennis courts as well. He also suggested the use of stone on the entrance sign monuments to the
parks.
Woodruff asked TKDA what the City would likely get for $10,000 park entrance signs and asked
if they had sign comparisons.
Anderson interjected that proposing signage was not a piece of the consultants original
agreement and pointed out that she had been working with artists and designers to provide sign
images for an upcoming meeting likely capitalizing on the stone, metal and wood elements
utilized at the City Hall renovation.
Chair Norman stated that he would like to see the stone, metal, and wood options but wondered
what TKDA believed they could get for $10,000.
Brown stated that, based on numerous contacts he has had within Freeman, he was troubled by
cordoning off the parks with landscaped ‘rooms’ and tree lines that might destroy the beautiful
expansive views of the current perimeter of trees surrounding the park that people enjoy so much.
Quinlan pointed out that the Commission had also considered a community garden plot area near
the north and east end of the park behind the parking lot and Eddy Station as they walked their
park tour last week. He stated that he found this location to be the least objectionable of others
they’d considered as it was away from residences.
Brown recommended they consider where the water main is in their planning along that stretch.
Anderson questioned whether there was need to remove the softball field, which are always in
high demand, to install a basketball court when the proposed hockey rink could be made to serve
a dual purpose placing hoops at either end and a light colored hard surface inside the perimeter.
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Edmondson concurred, stating that it would make more sense to make the rink usable year round
with half courts on the interior than to remove a well used field.
Davis stated that turning the rink into dual purpose was a good idea, as she had seen this done in
other cities.
Brown interjected that the wetland feasibility study performed several ago by WSB points out
that with any added impervious surface; the City will be forced to perform some storm water
work, best management practices, or ponding.
CATHCARTC PARK
Gray pointed out that the hockey rink was slid back which allowed for a larger parking area. In
addition, the court games were moved near the tree line, as well as, the addition of picnic areas
and community garden options.
Davis commented that she liked the design.
Chair Norman felt this to be a good redevelopment plan that could be taken to Chanhassen and
asked for their partnership on.
Woodruff suggested they consider adding the same solid light colored surface to this rink as
proposed at Freeman to add in the basketball hoops for half court ball.
Anderson stated that she could speak to the Chanhassen Environmental Specialist to discuss the
potential of a joint community garden project at Cathcart.
Heck pointed out that the City of Shorewood owns the land but that it falls within the City of
Chanhassen. He indicated that he had already spoken to the Chanhassen City Administrator
Gerhardt who indicated that he was ready to talk about the plans as soon as the City of
Shorewood was.
DeMers stated that he shared the plans with a few of the neighbors around Cathcart and they had
seemed quite receptive to the designs.
Robb suggested they consider pods of community gardens so that the neighbors to the rear can
still access the park without cutting thru the gardens.
Brown stated that the City would need to consider any additional drainage issues created by the
added impervious surface at the southwest corner.
Davis stated that none of the improvements will get done without Chanhassen’s participation,
noting that they should wish to improve drainage for proposed development in the area.
Though there is no water at the park now, Brown mentioned that the highest levels of arsenic are
found in the water along Church Street, which might eventually lead to the consideration of city
water being brought to the area.
MANOR PARK
Gray pointed out that a small community garden, roughly 120X20 could be squeezed in near the
tree line and parking area. He stated that the overall consensus at the last meeting was that this
park was headed the right way. He suggested that an added aeration fountain be considered for
the pond.
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Woodruff stated that the issue of water quality in this pond has come up again at the City Council
level. He asked that the Commission circle back again and address what it is this pond is
supposed to be.
Brown mentioned that the Commission checked the water quality a few years ago and it was
determined that the pond did not contain filamentous green algae.
Davis stated that the pond is simply a shallow stagnant pond which has been examined at least
twice during her tenure with no real solution found.
Buss suggested further screening of the edges to deter geese and screen it from the neighbors, as
well as, a fountain which might improve the conditions slightly, but stated that if it is too shallow
and still nothing will really help.
Chair Norman also pointed out that the condition varies by year.
Woodruff stated that the Commission should acknowledge to the City Council that it is aware of
the ponds condition. In addition, Woodruff asked whether a topo of the site where the outdoor
theatre was proposed could be made available from Engineer Landini to see how many potential
rows of seats might be carved into the hillside.
Robb asked whether the pond could be dredged to improve its conditions.
Brown acknowledged that, of course, the pond could be dredged for a high price.
SILVERWOOD PARK
Gray pointed out both the accessible trail running to the top of the hillside on one side and the
more rustic trail curving along the pond edge and up the hillside on the other end of the park
where they meet near some benches for viewing Silver Lake across the street. He suggested a
small community garden be placed in the hillside to the rear of the well house.
Due to the steep grade, Woodruff suggested terracing the slope to possibly support a garden.
Brown pointed out the City does have 1’ contours available for most all of the parks
electronically. He noted that the portable biffs would need to be moved farther from the well
house.
Heck stated that the insurance trust has asked that the metal slide be removed and replaced with a
covered tube slide instead eventually.
Chair Norman stated that the shelter should be moved near the trees by the play area.
Brown pointed out that this park gets quite a bit of vandalism for a neighborhood park and
suggested the shelter be moved to the play area out of the way of the sliding hill altogether.
Davis suggested installing the ‘under surveillance’ signs at the park.
BUILDING TEMPLATE
Gray shared the illustrations of the shelters covered with rock faced stone, which typically adds
about 10% to the construction costs of the shelter. He suggested the stone be considered on a park
by park basis.
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Woodruff asked that TKDA provide rough dimensions for each picnic shelter design and label
each design A, B, C, D.
Buss stated they would provide labels and pricing for each style.
Brown pointed out that Eddy Station was built 10-12 years ago at a cost of roughly $345,000.
Woodruff asked for more specs and details for the shelters, including upgrades, if this is to be
Shorewood’s signature look.
Chair Norman stated that once the Commission decides which of the projects it wishes to pursue
the costs will be more clearly defined at the next steps.
Gray pointed out that the structures have high square foot costs generally.
Heck suggested the Commission consider powder coated metal for its picnic tables and benches
in the future as opposed to wood, from a maintenance and vandalism perspective.
Woodruff reminded the Commission not to focus too much on the costs outright, as they are a bit
out there, but to consider these as phased plans over time. Present their ideas and priorities to
Council and ask them how to fund or with which to proceed. He suggested they test their process
by trying to tackle one pilot project.
Davis encouraged each Commissioner to sit down with each park design and break down what
they believe the priorities to be and what they would like to see done sooner or later.
Chair Norman concurred, suggesting the Commissioners create a check list which puts items into
phases, gives us an inventory of projects to tackle, and phases those projects in over the short
term, as well as 5-10-20 years.
Gray stated the Commission should be in a position to identify some items to start now.
Quinlan asked TKDA to designate which shelter they intended for each space.
Davis stated that she would suggest beginning by breaking out the back bones for each park
which must be done as part of the framework of a particular park, as opposed to the more
superfluous items.
Quinlan stated that he would like to see the Commission tackle one phase for one park each year.
Robb stated that he would like to see taking on a project for all parks, like signage, this year.
Chair Norman agreed, stating that there may be cost savings for doing something at all the parks
at once. He asked TKDA to add the line item of lights for the Cathcart rink. In addition, he asked
that they provide all the original concept drawings for both Plans A and B they had considered
last time so that all options for all parks are on the table for consideration.
Gray stated that they would provide all plans in order to provide a paper trail reflective of the
process.
Chair Norman asked that they have all of the information for their June meeting, and especially
th
available for the tentative July 15 City Hall Open House.
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Buss stated that they would wrap up all of the details and provide the City with their final
deliverables the beginning of June.
Chair Norman asked the Commission, once again, to review, reflect, take note of their likes and
dislikes, and provide those to him via email by Tuesday of next week. Chair Norman stated that,
in June, the Commission will consider phasing, the next steps, and what it wants to accomplish in
2009, and beyond.
Quinlan asked what the budget constraints were.
Woodruff urged the Commission to give careful and thoughtful consideration of what it wishes to
phase in, and then present their thoughtful approval of what the phasing plan should be and
challenge the City Council to decide what can be accomplished.
Heck pointed out that the City Council makes a $45,000 incremental capital fund contribution to
the parks on an annual basis. However, Heck stated that the City levy increases will be nil and
that it is their intent to stick to zero increases.
Woodruff suggested they proceed with their process in June and make their recommendations as
part of their budget for 2010.
Woodruff went on to report on the City Council meeting the previous evening, stating that the
Council approved the concession agreement, the Dermco Lavine tennis court rehab project, the
payment to the Little League for fencing repairs, and the Eddy Station and picnic painting
projects. While he acknowledged that the proposed zoning change to allow signage on the field
fences was denied, Council directed staff to create a contract with little league to allow signage as
a pilot project this year without changing the Ordinance or jeopardizing the sign Ordinance at this
time.
Heck stated that the Attorney is considering whether any slight zoning changes will be necessary.
Chair Norman stated that it appears to be the legal issues versus the aesthetic issues. He
maintained that, in his opinion, the real issue is allowing commercial speech on public property.
He stated that he had compiled and supplied Director Nielsen with a list of Ordinances from other
cities which overwhelmingly prohibit signage in public parks, while private parks are another
matter altogether. Norman questioned little leagues assertion that Minnetonka changed their
zoning for them and that fence advertising is a part of baseball culture. In speaking with
representatives of Minnetonka, Norman stated that those folks only condone the advertising on
certain private type facilities and not in their public parks in general, they stated that they do not
plan to pursue any advertising in their public spaces.
Quinlan stated that he was surprised that this item is still under consideration after having both
the Planning and Park Commission’s come down unanimously against it. He stated that he was
convinced more than ever, after the park tour, that the money is not intended for scholarships. He
asked what more the Commission could do to demonstrate their opposition.
Woodruff stated that, as individual residents, the Commissioners could come before the City
Council and state their positions.
Heck stated that Council member Bailey suggested the City execute a one year trial arrangement.
Davis stated that she was troubled by all of little leagues recent statements and plans for
expansion, new batting cages, potential concession stand, etc. in light of the fact that they had
previously stated they had no money and need the advertising on the fences to hold costs down
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and provide scholarships for kids, tugging at the heartstrings. She felt the good intentions on
behalf of the City as a bit misdirected, especially in light of the fact that little league has made the
request for advertising in past years to no avail. She questioned why this year it is moving
forward, when it appears money is not an issue.
Woodruff believed the City Council should hear these opinions and history from individuals on
the Commission. He encouraged them to come speak to the Council. He also encouraged the
Commission to consider the long term costs of these supposed changes and additions to the parks
by little league before accepting them.
3. ADJOURN
Davis moved, Robb seconded, adjourning the Park Commission Meeting of May 12, 2009,
at 8:55p.m. Motion passed 6/0.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Kristi B. Anderson
Recorder