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101309 PK MIN CITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB RD PARK COMMISSION MEETING SHOREWOOD CITY HALL TUESDAY, OCTOBER 13, 2009 7:00 P.M. MINUTES 1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING Chair Norman convened the Park Commission Meeting at 7:06 p.m. A. Roll Call Present: Chair Norman; CommissionersDavis, DeMers, Quinlan, Robb, and Edmondson; Park Coordinator Anderson; Public Works Director Brown; and City Administrator Heck Absent: Commissioner Trent B. Review Agenda Davis moved, Edmondson seconded, approving the Agenda as submitted. Motion passed 6/0. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A. Park Commission Park Minutes of September 8, 2009 Edmondson moved, Robb seconded, approving the Minutes of September 8, 2009, as presented. Motion passed 6/0. 3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR Neighbors Caroll Friendly and Diane Hartgrove of Chartwell Hill near Silverwood Park, stood and stated that they do not believe the city needs a trail, rustic or paved, around the rear side of Silverwood Park. They shared their neighbor’s comments asking where this improvement comes from and whether it is a good use of funds. They felt a better use of funds on other features could be spent to improve the park. It was their belief that a trail would attract more kids to the woods to do bad things in hidden spaces. The neighbors commented on what a beautiful natural area it was thru the woods, with a worn mowed trail already there which leads to the great sliding hill. A male resident from the area interjected that if a trail is put thru the woods, it will give kids more placed to hide and a harder place to patrol. He also noted the fire hazard posed by kids smoking marijuana in the woods and carrying on. Chair Norman asked whether the neighbors called the police when kids were causing problems in the woods, as it had never been reported to the City nor the Commission there might be problems there. Noting that only 2 residents showed up, he asked where the neighbors were with regard to the shelter when the city sent out 500 notices for comment. Norman stated that the City had not decided whether the trail would be put in, nor would the City do so without notifying the neighbors to collect comment on the proposal. Anderson stated that, as the neighbors already acknowledged, the area atop the hill was lovely, and placing access and a bench there would make a nice addition. PARK COMMISSION MINUTES TUESDAY, OCTOBER 13, 2009 PAGE 2 OF 7 Friendly asked what would make the biggest impact for the community, a trail thru the woods to attract undesirable activities or lights on the pond, a warming house structure for the skating pond, and/or playground equipment. She felt the City should focus on maintaining the pond for ice skating instead. Brown interjected that oftentimes, native species and coy make maintaining pond ice difficult and dangerous. He indicated that the ice does not always freeze on Silverwood’s pond and he could not afford to lose his equipment thru the ice. He added that the additions proposed for Silverwood Park were not done without input; in fact, the City had collected feedback from neighbors at the park asking for access to the trail and a picnic shelter. He noted that over the years the city has sent notices, provided information on laserfiche, and posted information on the website. He asked what more the City could do to collect the neighbor’s comments. Davis stated that if this misbehavior is a constant pattern of behavior the City needs to pull in the police and have them patrol the park areas better. Anderson thanked the neighbors for their well thought out comments and suggested they consider submitting an application to serve on the Park Commission to share their thoughts with their community and preserve the things they value. 4. MANOR POND MAINTENANCE Brown noted that, without parroting his memorandum, there are several alternatives to consider for maintenance. While the stormwater pond is functioning as it should and was designed to do, it is part of our park system. From a technical standpoint, the most cost effective solution is the physical solution of dredging, even at the $80, 0000-90,000 price tag; the other solutions are ongoing options. Brown pointed out that, quite simply, we have a stormwater basin in the middle of one of our parks, it is something we are stuck with but the question is how we can find a compromise. He questioned how the City could keep Manor Pond’s stormwater function and balance this with the aesthetics of the neighborhood. While dredging could be a solution, it must be done in the winter, and would allow the pond to be replanted with the desired plant species come spring. Davis interjected that all ponds are overgrown this year due to the lack of rain. While she was all for the dredging solution, she noted that it would negate all of the positive things the Commission had planned for parks for 2010. She stated that she would not be okay with the funds coming from the park CIP and would instead expect the funding to come from the stormwater fund. Robb questioned whether the Commission really wished to change the purpose of the pond since it was functioning as it was designed to do. Brown pointed out that the pond would continue to function as designed today but the aesthetics would be improved. Chair Norman questioned what the barley sacks were. Brown reported that the barley straw would soak up and decay bacteria which in turn would deter the growth of the undesirable plant species. He stated that the MCWD has used this technique at minimal cost, though he had no personal experience with it. PARK COMMISSION MINUTES TUESDAY, OCTOBER 13, 2009 PAGE 3 OF 7 Quinlan asked how long a permanent solution like dredging would last. Brown estimated that the dredging has never been done, nor needed; therefore he would anticipate a minimum of 20 years. One of the neighbors living across the street from the pond stated that they had lived there for 20 years during which time the aesthetics of the pond has declined significantly. They stated that there used to be more wildlife that has all gone now. The neighbors indicated that they, too, had made contact with Dick Osgood about the silt deepening within the pond. Another neighbor asked whether ponds are required to be dredged by the MCWD or DNR, noting that if so, the pond would be significantly improved. Brown interjected that the $80,000 to $90,000 estimate was a soft estimate which could grow significantly if the silt to be removed is deemed hazardous. He asked whether the Commission would be on board with this, noting that the funding would need to be resolved. He urged the Commission to consider the stormwater function versus the aesthetic park function in its determination. The neighbors questioned whether the new developments nearby exacerbated the pond conditions, since the pond had gone downhill since the construction of the additional homes. They also stated that, given the winter use of the pond and their plans to improve the warming house, why wouldn’t the City wish to improve the pond. Brown pointed out that the new homes have a pre-treatment basin of their own which is accomplishing the function intended to pre treat the water before it moves to the Manor Pond and on into Lake Minnetonka. He reminded the group that the drought has played a factor in diminishing conditions. The neighbors in attendance indicated that they would prefer money be spent on the pond than on improving the building. Brown reiterated that the pond is serving its stormwater detention facility function well, and the question remains how the City can improve it aesthetically to improve its appearance in a park setting. Chair Norman asked what plan of action the Commission can decide on. Quinlan stated that he did not see any disagreement on whether it should be done, but more so on how to fund it. Anderson interjected the fact that, earlier this evening, Council member Woodruff challenged the Commission to be more aggressive in its park improvement plan and bring items to the Council that they believe should be done as a high priority and leave it to the Council to make the determination of how to fund it. Brown concurred stating that, if the Commission deems the project viable, they should ask the Council how it should be funded and leave it to them to determine where it falls on the stormwater fund priority list rather than wrestling with it themselves. PARK COMMISSION MINUTES TUESDAY, OCTOBER 13, 2009 PAGE 4 OF 7 Davis moved, Edmondson seconded, to ask the City Council to find funds to dredge Manor Pond, based on findings and neighborhood input that have been reviewed several times over the past 15 years, the Commission would view this as a priority item for the stormwater fund. Motion passed 6/0. 5. REPORTS A. Report on City Council Meeting Heck reported that much of the discussion revolved around roads. Brown added that a rate study had been undertaken to determine whether the City should up rates to help pay for some projects like the Manor Pond project. In addition, the outlet project at Lake Mary had been voted down, at a price of about $450,000 the Council had to assess the cost benefit analysis. B. Recycling in the Parks The Commission was comfortable with the report. C. Update on Arctic Fever Davis reported that things were on track for Arctic Fever and an upcoming meeting was scheduled soon. D. Update on Silverwood Park Shelter Anderson reported that due to the unforeseen decline in weather conditions it was likely the project would not begin in earnest until spring. If lucky, she predicted they might get the footings poured yet this fall. E. Update on Manor Park Warming House Given the earlier report to the Commission during the joint work session, Anderson reiterated that the Manor Park warming house remodeling project revealed many issues, including but not limited to, the condition and type of foundation, the ADA accessibility of the building and parking lot, the roof, water and sewer connections, and several others. She urged the Commission to consider taking a step back to perform the feasibility or preliminary design work to consider their various options and assemble cost estimates. Brown pointed out that the preliminary design study would provide the Commission with a visioning document, as well as a realistic method for cost estimating, and justification for the design choices. While it would not provide specific designs it would provide a general scoping document to provide to the Council. Davis suggested staff go into the neighborhood deeper to ask people what they want. Given the opinions of the earlier Silverwood neighbors she suggested the Commission host a neighborhood meeting. PARK COMMISSION MINUTES TUESDAY, OCTOBER 13, 2009 PAGE 5 OF 7 Chair Norman stated that as a working document the study could accommodate the Commission’s intent to provide future programming at Manor. DeMers questioned whether the Commission might prefer to leave the building as it is since so many issues need to be resolved to make the building compliant and what we want. Heck suggested hosting the neighborhood meeting for all residents north of Highway 7 and east of Excelsior at the park itself in hopes of a better turn out. Quinlan asked whether the conceptual design study could be performed parallel to the neighborhood meeting in order to provide the neighbors with an a la carte menu of items to choose from the preliminary design. Brown questioned whether information gleaned from the neighborhood meeting might be so innovative that it would destroy the conceptual design posed. He urged the Commission to determine its highest and best use scenario and present that to the neighbors, as some of the neighbors may not view programs as one of their goals for the park. Heck noted that, oftentimes, neighbors take more ownership in the park and the building if given the opportunity to help build or design it from the outset. Robb moved, Quinlan seconded, recommending to the City Council that the City go forward with a preliminary design study to show the feasibility of remodeling, options, cost estimates, sketches of elevations, and design ideas to paint a vision of what the Commission wants to see for the Manor Park warming house, not to exceed $5,000. Motion passed 6/0. F. Report on Meeting with City of Chanhassen Regarding Cathcart Park As discussed during the joint meeting earlier, Anderson stated that, while the meeting with the City of Chanhassen went well, the City of Chanhassen declined the opportunity to partner with the City of Shorewood to make improvements to Cathcart Park. Given budget cuts and the fact that they have 34 of their own parks to upkeep, the City of Chanhassen did not wish to contribute to projects at Cathcart Park. They indicated that they would honor the current agreement which requires them to perform landscape maintenance. In addition, they did not view a need for community gardens at the park but would keep the desire for water for the park in the back of their minds as development in the area continues. They questioned the need for many improvements at the park, viewing it as a well rounded amenity in its current state. 6. DISCUSS AND WORK ON PRIORITIZING MASTER PLAN FOR CIP FOR NEXT 5 YEARS The Commission agreed that the Badger Park rink removal and square projects could be removed from the CIP, although several of the other place holders should remain as secondary priority items should funds ever become available. Davis suggested removing the construction of a warming house at Cathcart Park from the CIP, since the Freeman Park rink project will be underway and is in close proximity to Cathcart. She suggested they continue using the portable shelter at Cathcart. 7. DISCUSS HOCKEY ASSOCIATION AND YOUTH GRANT PARK COMMISSION MINUTES TUESDAY, OCTOBER 13, 2009 PAGE 6 OF 7 Chair Norman stated that he had concerns regarding the long term implications associated with the maintenance and repair of the chiller units. He questioned the environmental impacts of the propylene glycol. That being said, Norman stated that he liked the idea of rinks at Freeman if concerns are addressed. He urged staff to pursue grants when the opportunities arose, but did not like the short application window we were chasing. Quinlan stated that it sounded to him as if the hockey association was flexible and urged staff to pursue the grant, see what the figures shake out at and allocate a maintenance endowment for the project. Brown pointed out that public works staff would still be required to clear off the rinks after each snowfall, though the smaller equipment could be used on the rinks, as well as the zamboni by the rink attendants. Chair Norman and Davis questioned the cost of constructing two regular lit rinks instead. Anderson stated that staff could pursue the construction of one refrigerated ice rink with adequate sized equipment to allow for the later expansion to two rinks with a follow-up grant. She reminded the Commission that the Hennepin County Grant did not allow for a great deal of lead time for this application, which could play to their favor even though staff will have to rush to compile the required documentation. She stated that staff would need a recommendation from the Commission that staff begin work with the hockey association on the Hennepin County Grant project and move th it along for City Council resolution at its October 26 meeting. Quinlan moved, Davis seconded, to recommend to City Council that the City apply for the Hennepin County Youth Sports Grant in partnership with the Minnetonka Youth Hockey Association while concurrently investigating additional partners to partner with for the grant. Motion passed 6/0. 8. REVIEW REVISED DONOR POLICY AND PARKS FOR PLACEMENT OF MEMORIAL BENCHES Anderson explained that in recent conversations with Midwest Playscapes, contractor for the Silverwood Shelter project, she learned of a memorial benches program they run with the City of Chanhassen. The program identifies places throughout the park system where which the Commission would like to see benches placed and allows for the public to purchase these benches as memorials to their loved ones, and at no cost to the City. She reviewed the added language to the donor policy for consideration. Edmondson moved, Davis seconded, recommending the City Council review the addition of the memorial benches language to the donor policy. Motion passed 6/0. 9. REVIEW DEMONSTRATION COMMUNITY GARDEN GUIDELINES Anderson reported that the she would be meeting with the garden committee in the coming weeks and asked the Commission for direction with regard to the expansion of the demonstration garden to plots, their opinion for placement, and the language proposed within the revised guidelines. PARK COMMISSION MINUTES TUESDAY, OCTOBER 13, 2009 PAGE 7 OF 7 Chair Norman asked whether the demonstration garden and ICA requirement goes away with the expansion to plots. Brown interjected that public works will continue to spray the parks with an herbicide by a licensed contractor, though will continue to avoid the gardens themselves. He urged the Commission to consider whether the audience they anticipated showed up for the demonstration garden. He stated that the public works also filled the rain barrels often and supplied material for the fencing. Chair Norman noted that the gardeners had a good harvest throughout the year and donated quite a bit to the ICA food shelves. He believed the South Shore Community Park was an appropriate place for the garden plots, instead of any other park. The rest of the Commission concurred. Davis stated that the herbicide spraying should become a part of the disclaimer within the guidelines. She questioned whether the price for the plots should be higher since the public works staff must also till the plots in the spring and turn them over in the fall, as well as, manages the rain barrels. Anderson suggested the City retain these duties if they wish to maintain control of the conditions of the gardens themselves. She suggested they set standards for fencing, fence the perimeter and require the gardeners to police themselves inside. Rates of $30 for residents and $50 for non- residents were considered. Anderson indicated she would meet with the gardeners, make revisions to the guidelines and report back. Brown suggested 4’ high and 16 gauge wire. 10. DETERMINE LIAISON FOR CITY COUNCIL MEETING ON OCTOBER 26, 2009 Anderson suggested they settle back into a three month rotation if possible. th Davis volunteered as liaison for the October 26 meeting. 11. NEW BUSINESS Chair Norman suggested staff investigate the Federal stimulus dollar grants for new playground equipment. 12. ADJOURN Davis moved, Robb seconded, adjourning the Park Commission Meeting of October 13, 2009, at 9:17 p.m. Motion passed 6/0. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED Kristi B Anderson Recorder