03-13-12 PK MINS
CITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB RD
PARK COMMISSION MEETING SHOREWOOD CITY HALL
TUESDAY, MARCH 13, 2012 7:00 P.M.
MINUTES
1. CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
Chair Quinlan convened the meeting at 7:00 p.m.
A. Roll Call
Present: Chair Quinlan; Commissioners Quinlan, Edmondson, Kjolhaug,
;
Hartmann, Gordon and MangoldCity Council Liaison Woodruff;
Director of Public Works Brown, City Planner Nielsen
Absent: None
B. Review Agenda
Kjolhaug moved to approve the agenda with the addition of Item 1D, Logistics. Edmondson
seconded the motion. Motion carried.
C. Introduction of New Park Commissioner
Quinlan introduced new Commissioner Mangold who will be replacing Commissioner Robb. Mangold stated he
has lived in Shorewood for three years and has lived in the area his entire life. He stated he is anxious to do
something important for his community. Commissioners welcomed him to the Park Commission.
D. Logistics
Brown discussed logistical items including making sure that the microphones are turned on. He stated the City
Council met in Executive Session the previous evening and came to a satisfactory outcome with City
Administrator Heck. He is no longer employed by the City. Brown also noted City Planner Brad Nielsen will be
the staff liaison to the Park Commission. He explained that minutes will be taken by Clare Link who plans to
possibly attend a meeting in the future in order to familiarize herself with the commissioners.
Quinlan asked if recreation teams will be impacted by Heck's leaving the City. Brown stated he and Twila Grout
will administer the recreation teams.
Gordon asked how communications should be forwarded to staff. Brown stated all communications should be
forwarded to Nielsen.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Park Commission Meeting Minutes of February 14, 2012
B. Park Commission Meeting Minutes of February 28, 2012
Hartmann stated her name was misspelled in the minutes and Gordon's name was also misspelled a
couple times.
Commissioner Hartmann moved to approve the minutes of the February 14 and 28 meetings as
amended: correct misspellings of Commissioners' last names; move the last two sentences
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under Item 6 in the February 28 meeting to go under a new agenda item #7 entitled
"Additional Items" as suggested by Commissioner Kjolhaug. Gordon seconded the motion.
Motion carried.
3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
There were none.
4. PRESENTATION BY EAGLE SCOUT – NICK HOSTETTER
Commissioner Quinlan stated Eagle Scout Nick Hostetter was invited back to this meeting to continue
discussions of scout volunteer work in the parks. Commissioners had discussed that it be a trail behind
the Southshore Center along with a form drafted by Mayor Lizée to gather additional information for
the record. Hostetter was invited to discuss the details this evening.
Hostetter stated he had submitted via e-mail the application to the Commission for the project. He
discussed the goal of the trail behind Badger Park to benefit the community. He stated it could be used
for walking classes, for exercise, and for those present at other events. He reviewed a map of two
proposed locations. Path 1 would be on the east side and go behind the woods. The concern is
whether it would disturb the neighbors in the area or take too much time to clear out the debris.
Quinlan stated that was the original perspective without knowing of any of the issues in the area. He
was unaware if there was too much brush to clear out. He asked if there were any issues with regard
to whether it would be easy to do. Hostetter stated he viewed the site. If the City would clear a path,
the scouts could add chips and chip the rest of the trail. Quinlan asked staff if it would be a possibility.
Nielsen stated it could happen. He believed Public Works could do the work.
Edmondson asked if there is a defined width of the trail. Hostetter stated it would be 3-4 feet. Quinlan
believed it would match the width of an existing bridge.
Hostetter stated it would add to the existing path constructed in 2011. A negative is that you would
need a bridge, and it is close to peoples' property lines. It would get very buggy in the mosquito
season.
Quinlan asked how close it would come to the property lines. Hostetter noted it would be 10-15 feet
in some areas but unsure of other areas. He suggested property lines could be flagged.
Edmondson asked if survey work would be required. Nielsen stated it might be wise to stake the area
so people can see where it is. From that, it can be determined if additional survey work is needed.
Kjolhaug asked if there are any design standards for trails. Nielsen stated there are none at this point,
but the Planning Commission will be working on that in the future to determine width and design of
future trails in Shorewood.
Kjolhaug stated there are wetlands in this proposed area. Nielsen stated a trail is allowed through a
wetland area, but this is absolutely an issue that needs to be studied.
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Kjolhaug stated we should be looking into the future in case it would become more of a formal trail in
the future. Nielsen agreed citing other trails in the County that have expanded to new uses.
Edmondson discussed his concerns about ADA accessibility.
Quinlan asked what the other option was. Hostetter stated the other option was on the west side of the
football field. Quinlan asked how close it would be to the football field. Hostetter stated it is close
proximity.
Commissioners discussed the two trail options. It was noted the trail would dead-end.
Nielsen noted April 1 was determined as the date for city approval. He suggested the trail be staked so
the Park Commission can go out and visually review the proposed site. Quinlan agreed it should be
done soon. He noted the trail on the east side is one that has been envisioned for some time now. He
asked for input on the west side.
Hartmann asked if there isn't a trail going around by the football field already. She noted the second
option would link up to the existing trail.
Quinlan asked if staff had a position on the trail location. Nielsen stated looking at it on a drawing is
one thing. He stated Public Works could ask how maintenance would be involved.
Quinlan stated it would be wise to develop something that states what the City might do and notify the
neighbors along the area to meet and discuss their concerns. He also thought it might be useful to
consider both trails but not done at the same time. He also thought the Watershed might have to look
at the first trail option because of the wetland issues.
Mayor Lizée spoke from the audience and noted Hostetter is looking for some kind of preliminary
approval in order to move forward with the process. Hostetter noted there is an age limit getting an
Eagle badge, and there is a need to get this done as early as possible.
Quinlan stated we are eager to move forward, but additional issues have been raised this evening that
need to be addressed. Quinlan noted if the trail is surveyed for the next meeting in April, he assumed it
would need to go back to the City Council for their approval. Nielsen noted a recommendation could
be taken from the April 10 meeting to the April 23 City Council meeting.
Hartmann asked if the public meeting could be held before the City Council meeting. Nielsen stated it
wouldn't hurt to put the stakes in before the neighborhood meeting. He suggested it be the night of the
meeting. Woodruff suggested commissioners walk the trail on their own. Nielsen stated the stakes
would be installed a couple weeks prior to the meeting. Woodruff suggested a map be sent of the
proposed trail along with the meeting notice. Nielsen noted the desirable route will be marked, but
property lines cannot be marked at this point. He stated it will be done by the end of March and give
the neighbors ten days notice of the meeting. The Commission will walk the trail individually.
Quinlan discussed the scouts' timeline for trail construction, and materials needed and what the City
would need to know.
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Nielsen stated any bridging over the creek would be an issue that the City would need to look at.
Kjolhaug stated the Watershed also has a permit required for a wildlife crossing which would need to
be researched. Nielsen stated it is unclear whether this is a natural waterway or a man made ditch, but
staff will take a look at it.
Gordon asked how long the project will take to complete once it has been approved. Hostetter stated
the mulching project would take 1-2 days. Mangold stated the width of the trail will determine how
long it would take to complete.
5. APPOINT 2010 CHAIR AND VICE CHAIR
Quinlan reviewed the new process which is now changed to be done once all new commissioners are
on board. He opened the floor for discussion and volunteers.
Gordon asked Quinlan if he is interested in remaining Chair of the Park Commission. Edmondson
stated he also supported Quinlan as Chair.
Quinlan stated he would also like to support Edmondson as Vice Chair.
Kjolhaug moved to stay with the current Park Commission leadership, with Quinlan serving as
Chair and Edmondson serving as Vice Chair. Hartmann seconded the motion. Motion carried.
6. SUMMER ACTIVITY WITH SOUTHSHORE COMMUNITY CENTER
Kristi Anderson was present to update the Commission on the activities planned at the Southshore
Community Center. She told them about an event planned on June 1 which would be outdoors and for
the entire community. Woodruff suggested Anderson come to the podium so she can be heard on the
microphone. Anderson stated the Legion would sell picnic food for $5. She reviewed the costs of the
entertainment, etc. which should be around $1000. There is also $100 cost for the wagon for the band.
Quinlan asked the Commission what the allocation should be for this event. He asked if there will be
sponsors. Anderson stated she has approached the Legion who will discuss this at a board meeting.
Edmondson asked if there are any conflicts with any other cities in the area. Anderson stated there are
not any conflicts with other cities.
Kjolhaug asked what the projected attendance might be for this event. Anderson stated she believed it
would be similar to the Oktoberfest and be around 150-200 people. She believed there would be a nice
turnout.
Edmondson suggested there be a bonfire to go along with the theme. Anderson stated she would have
reservations because of it being a large family event.
Gordon asked if there is also an event where there will be dancing. Gordon suggested there be a
square dance caller. Anderson stated the band would probably be able to do that.
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It was asked if there is any consideration to a night other than Friday. Anderson stated it could be
something to consider when summer is underway, but this event is when school is still in session.
Quinlan suggested the Parks Foundation be approached to cover some or all of the cost. He stated this
is what the fund is for. This is an example of a very specific idea. Commissioners discussed how to
approach the Park Foundation. Edmondson stated there is a meeting in March, and he will be
attending. He asked the Commission if any of them wished to be liaison. He stated we should have a
backup liaison when he cannot attend.
Woodruff asked if April 10 is too late to wait for an approval. Anderson stated she was concerned
about not having enough promotional lead time. Quinlan stated the action would be to make a motion
to pay for it from the events fund and to approach the Parks Foundation.
Woodruff also stated Excelsior could be approached for funding as their residents would also be
attending.
Mangold moved to fund the event and pursue alternate funding from the Parks Foundation.
Edmondson seconded the motion. Motion carried.
Nielsen noted this item would be put on the next City Council agenda.
7. MANOR PARK TENNIS COURT
Quinlan noted Manor Park and Silverwood are scheduled for resurfacing this year. The discussion to
consider is to resurface. Our vendor had indicated that Manor Park has reached the end of its life, and
other options are needed. Options would be to resurface, resurface just one inch, or to surface with a
special material called Versa-Court.
Nielsen stated there is a court in Eden Prairie that uses this material. He suggested the Commission
take a look at it. Commissioners agreed that would be worthwhile. Nielsen noted maintenance is very
simple through vacuuming or power washing. He noted Eden Prairie thinks very highly of it. Quinlan
stated he has personal reservations about it and didn't know if there are enough claims about
maintenance. He stated it looks temporary to him.
Gordon stated it looks like it might be slippery and was concerned about how it would be on a person's
joints.
Nielsen stated the court location would be provided, and this item could be put back on the next
meeting's agenda.
Commissioners discussed the cost of maintenance. Woodruff reviewed the lifetime cost for all options.
Mangold noted the versa-courts were avoided if others were available at the U of M in his experience.
Nielsen suggested staff solicit advice from groups who are familiar with play on this kind of court.
Mangold questioned whether the base beneath the versa-court holds up as well as the versa-court
material. Kjolhaug stated that is important to find out if there is a problem.
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Quinlan stated we should go take a look at the Eden Prairie court and give consideration to whether it
will even be used with the new material.
Edmondson stated we would also want to talk to the Eden Prairie Parks chair to see what their
considerations and discussions were during their process to change to a rubberized surface.
8. CONTINUE BADGER PARK DISCUSSION
Quinlan stated the commission is considering Badger Park and what to do with it in the future - what
should be added, for example. He stated it is the park that we are looking at to make the most amount
of changes. He stated the purpose of this evening is to continue the discussion from the previous
meeting.
Quinlan stated the Park Commissioners worked with TKDA to develop plans for the parks. Their
proposed plan for Badger is different than what is currently there.
It was mentioned that the TKDA report was done four years ago and is not an approved design by any
means. The consultant made recommendations made to them by the Park Commission and
incorporated what they thought might be uses.
Quinlan stated we now need to discuss specifics about what amenities we want for the parks. He
reminded the Commission that they voted back in January for the amenities we wanted to keep and the
ones we were not interested in at all.
Woodruff stated a joint meeting was held with the City Council where the residents' survey was
discussed. He stated the table does not reflect this survey. He believed the information should be
incorporated into the list.
Hartmann thanked Woodruff for his comments. She noted a high percentage of residents are over 45
years old.
Quinlan stated the Commission should talk about what they want in the park and include information
from the survey about what the residents want.
Hartmann stated the survey did not include how many children the survey respondents had.
Kjolhaug didn't think adding another column would be effective but comments from the survey should
be considered.
Quinlan stated he would like to make some definite steps forward and it is important to consider survey
data.
Mangold stated any future development along County Road 19 should be a consideration, and a trail
tie-in to link the park to users.
Edmondson stated having access to the park would make a world of difference.
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Quinlan noted there is a piece of trail along 19 that was a high priority which would connect to the
LRT.
Nielsen noted staff was directed to prepare a design for the trail along 19 from the LRT that went
along the Tonka Village Shopping Center. It was not going to be a project this year. The Council did
agree the Planning Commission would take ownership of the trail plan with strong input and liaison
from the Park Commission.
Quinlan noted amenities have been rated by the Commission in the past. He suggested working from
the bottom up to begin the process. Mangold suggested also commenting on what the park should
always have.
Commissioners agreed community gardens should not be in the park.
Commissioners discussed the paved walking trail. Kjolhaug stated it is important to have something
for everyone for all seasons. He noted it is easier for the older residents to walk on a paved trail. He
stated it is worth reconsidering. Gordon agreed it should be considered.
Kjolhaug stated the survey did not specify paved vs. non-paved trails when asking what kind of
trails were used within the last year. Stated it was reinforced in the survey that they wanted to
make sure there was something for everyone in all season. It’s easier to walk on a paved trail,
especially for the elderly population. I gave the paved walking trail a “2” for that reason. He
stated it was worth reconsidering for many reasons.
Gordon stated she had given it a “5”, but she would now give it a “1” given what the survey says.
It was stated that it was framed differently in the survey than what was being discuss now.
The survey didn’t ask about paved vs. non-paved. Eighty percent of the respondents in the survey
said they had used trails within the last year.
Hartmann stated we can definitely agree on a trail that would be more than a wood chipped trail,
more like the LRT. It was agreed there would be a single item for a trail with an unknown
makeup at this point. It was also agreed it be moved up to a “2” priority.
Hartmann stated the skating rink at Badger was lit up when she viewed it the other day. Quinlan
noted the choice was to have it lit or unlit because there is an option to move the rink.
Hartmann stated general skating could be removed if the decision is made to have a hockey rink.
Quinlan stated it could remain.
Hartmann stated art sculpture would be welcome if someone would donate the art. Quinlan
stated the intent is to have an open, campus-type feel for the park. As the park exists now, there
is no place to put art.
Gordon stated this area is hugely creative and having someone donate art would be welcome.
Commissioners discussed the option of rotating art. Edmondson stated artistic design is an
integration of parks. Beautification is a key component of parks.
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Edmondson suggested the hockey rink be moved to Freeman Park, and Badger Park could have
more artistic features. Hartmann stated the sprinkler system at Freeman was a problem with
having skating there.
It was stated the issues at Freeman Park were conflicts with the softball field and drainage
concerns. TKDA’s comment was that there would be a casual gathering area at Badger Park.
Gordon stated Freeman is a sports, athletic, youth park. She stated each park has its own theme
or demographic. As a whole, Shorewood’s parks are amazing.
Quinlan stated Freeman also has an incredible amount of open space. He would be sensitive to
disrupting the open space there.
Hartmann asked if it could be determined if there could be a hockey rink at Freeman. Nielsen
stated it could be determined. The original plan for Freeman included a hockey rink. He stated
they could pull out the old plan. Hartmann stated there needs to be a hockey rink somewhere.
Hartmann stated the free skating could be attached to the hockey rink. Nielsen stated flooding an
area for skating at Freeman this past season did not work.
Hartmann asked how much the football field is used. She stated it is very huge. Quinlan believed
it is used a fair amount. It was noted it is also used for soccer and lacrosse. It is also used for
pickup ball games. Hartmann noted it is also a nicely lit field. Nielsen stated it is also poor soils
in that area.
Edmondson suggested Brown be invited to discuss uses of the football field. He noted there
needs to be down time for turf recovery. Quinlan stated it needs to be promoted as a multi-use
field. It was noted a lot of the park programs use the field during the summer that are not use-
intensive. It was the consensus that it be included in Badger Park.
Commissioners discussed having a picnic shelter at Badger Park. Hartmann stated we were
talking picnic area/restrooms/warming house. Quinlan asked if there was any reason not to have a
shelter. It was determined there was not. He noted restrooms were also high on the list.
Quinlan discussed having a tennis court. Hartmann asked how much the current courts are used.
Nielsen stated it is used very often. It was noted tennis is a game for all ages. Mangold stated it
can be a key feature to have two courts next to each other. Quinlan suggested combining tennis
courts lighted and non-lighted as one item for discussion purposes. Gordon stated if we are going
to do it right, add the lights. It was noted you need to consider the neighbors and lighting with
the tennis courts. It was also noted you can play pretty late in the summer without lighting.
Commissioners discussed parking problems with city hall and the Southshore Center. Edmondson
stated it is especially problematic driving in the area in the winter. Quinlan stated the TKDA plan
did attempt to reconfigure the parking. It was stated the parking is inadequate especially during
football games and Southshore events. Significant features would have to be removed from the
park in order to provide addition parking. TKDA’s suggestion was to not add any more uses that
were visitor-intensive. Commissioners reviewed uses on the site that are parking-prohibitive due
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to the topography or well house proximity. Quinlan suggested parking improvements and park
entrance improvements be combined for discussion purposes. The next step is to choose the
pieces, lay them out, and the parking will result.
Edmondson asked if we are still working on landscaping around the signs. It was noted the
community gardeners would handle that. Edmondson suggested planting a “lane” effect. Nielsen
stated there is a core group of volunteers, but it is getting difficult to find people to help with
plantings. He also noted there are a lot of plantings shown on the TKDA plan that are not in
existence right now.
Quinlan suggested combining line items for the purpose of time. Hartmann suggested combining
the playground and tot lot.
Quinlan asked if there are items that can safely be deleted. Edmondson suggested the pond water
feature be removed. Gordon suggested the fountain also be removed. It was stated that a County
Road 19 study that suggested that there be a feature at the corner near the Tonka Bay shopping
center. It was suggested that a space be provided for art that might be donated at some point.
Fountain was removed, and there be a place holder for art sculpture focal point.
Commissioners discussed the possibility of having a basketball court. Quinlan stated there hasn’t
been any discussion about having one. They reviewed courts located at other parks. It was noted
only eight percent stated on the survey that a basketball court was important. Woodruff noted it
was stated that most people have basketball hoops in their driveways. Quinlan stated a basketball
court can be discussed further at another time and whether it can be combined with another use.
He stated we will come back for further discussion at the next meeting.
9. NEW BUSINESS
None
10. STAFF AND LIAISON REPORTS/UPDATES
A. City Council
Woodruff stated the picnic table purchase and tennis court resurfacing for Silverwood and Cathcart were
approved. The Council approved an ordinance on animal regulations. The Finance Director reported on
what happened in 2011 budget. The Planning Commission will study the trail plan and give the Park
Commission a quarterly update.
B. Staff
None
C. Quarterly Budget Report
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No report
D. Work Program Update
Nielsen stated there was nothing new to report.
E. Park Commission Liaisons
Quinlan asked if Nick Swaggert would be a liaison for any upcoming meetings of Tom Robb. It was
suggested that the next liaison for an upcoming meeting would be put on the agendas as a reminder.
Commissioners reviewed their assignments for the next few months.
11. ADJOURN
Edmondson moved, Gordon seconded, adjourning the Park Commission Meeting of March 13, 2012,
at 10:00 p.m. Motion carried.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Clare T. Link
Recorder