04-10-12 PK MINS
CITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB D
PARK COMMISSION MEETING SHOREWOOD CITY HALL
TUESDAY, APRIL 10, 2012 7:00 P.M.
MINUTES
1.CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING
Chair Quinlan convened the meeting at 7:00 p.m.
A.Roll Call
Present: Chair Quinlan; Commissioners Edmondson, Swaggert, Kjolhaug,
;
Hartmann, Gordon and MangoldCity Council Liaison Woodruff;
and City Planner Nielsen
Absent: None
B.Review Agenda
Commissioner Swaggert moved to approve the agenda as amended: Discuss additional
application for scout projects under New Business. Edmondson seconded the motion. Motion
carried.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. Park Commission Meeting Minutes of March 13, 2012
Commissioner Edmondson moved to approve the minutes of the March 13, 2012 meeting as
th
amended: Page 4, Item 5, second paragraph: change Hartmann to Gordon; Page 8, 5
thrd
paragraph, change Hartmann to Gordon; and Page 6, 4 paragraph, 3 sentence should read a
rubberized surface, not a versa-court. Kjolhaug seconded the motion. Motion carried.
3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
None
4. NEIGHBORHOOD MEETING - EAGLE SCOUT PROJECT AT BADGER PARK
Quinlan stated there weren’t any responses received to the notice of a neighborhood meeting for the
Eagle Scout project at Badger Park. He suggested the Commission venture out and visit the area at
this time. He stated he understood the residents would be outside at the site. Nielsen stated they didn’t
receive any calls or e-mails regarding the project.
Quinlan noted the woody portion is very rustic. Nielsen stated the trail could not loop until a bridge is
built which might be a future scout project. He suggested the walking path be extended and not dead
end at the skate area.
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Mangold noted there are two main channels for water to go through near the hockey rink Nielsen
stated there may need to be a culvert constructed in that area.
Gordon asked if we are saying we cannot extend it. Nielsen stated we are saying we should extend it
to the tennis court and extend the bituminous. Gordon stated it should be extended. Nielsen believed
the scouts can work it into their project.
Gordon believed this would be a very good first step. Nielsen stated it would be a natural
progression to begin with an ag lime trail. He discussed the construction of the trail and future
mowing.
Nielsen noted there is an application for 100-300 hours of work.
Quinlan asked what would have to be done to extend the trail further. Nielsen stated something
would have to be done to accommodate the drainage.
Hartmann asked if some sort of cedar would be placed. Nielsen stated wood chips would be
placed and not structure would be needed. He outlined the proposed trail on the TKDA master
plan for Badger Park.
Kjolhaug stated he didn’t think a trail in the park with wood chips made much sense. He believed
a paved trail made better sense. He believed there would be other projects more suitable for the
scouts such as buckthorn removal.
Mangold stated if we want a path through the woods, possibly a bridge could be the project for
the Eagle scouts. He believed it would be a great transition from the mulch trail back to the lawn
behind the football field.
Quinlan stated there are two other scouts interested in working on projects.
Hartmann stated she was unsure where the property lines end for the trail in the woods. With the
other trail skirting the field, there is no concern about property lines. Nielsen stated he could pull
some property files to determine where the property lines are.
Quinlan stated if there is a change, would it then be appropriate to have another neighborhood
meeting. Nielsen stated it would be appropriate to do that if there is a change.
Quinlan stated we could do both trails as well.
Commissioners discussed proposed materials for the trail. Edmondson wondered if ag lime was
ADA approved. Nielsen stated he would have to check to find out for sure.
Quinlan asked the Commission if they wanted to reconsider the trail location or the addition of a
trail in the woods.
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Mangold stated the highest priority would be the trail in the woods, but he is not opposed to the
wood chip walking path. He stated the wood chip path is a short term solution.
Gordon asked if the path which goes to the Southshore Center is being used. Edmondson stated
there is a bench out there. Woodruff believed the bench was part of the scout project. Hartmann
stated she didn’t know how much it is used.
Swaggert stated it needs to be determined what our final goal will be. He believed in the
incremental approach.
Quinlan stated we have always discussed a trail through the woods. He could see it being used
while people are watching a football game. It isn’t a destination. The scouts have offered free
labor, and this is a good fit.
Edmondson stated it is more of a beautification project and for solitude. He believed that not
taking advantage of the scouts would be a travesty.
Quinlan stated he would be resistant to change the course at this time.
Kjolhaug stated he would like to see the scouts do something, and it would be beneficial to the
city.
Mangold asked if we are in agreement that the walking path should be extended. Quinlan agreed
given the number of hours we have of volunteers. Edmondson stated we will need to get the
donated chips confirmed.
Quinlan asked how many would like to see a path through the woods with a bridge or a path as
shown. Four commissioners indicated an interest in the trail with the bridge.
Hartmann stated the proposed walking path is great. We have the other trail staked out and have
the scouts volunteering to do the work. She stated she could see good and bad points for both
trails, and there is no reason we can’t do both.
Quinlan asked if plans would have to be drawn up. Nielsen stated last time the scouts worked
with the building inspector to draw something up. He has seen cases where the scouts do
fundraising to pay for the materials. Other scouts got plants donated. He believes the city paid
for the bench, and the scouts assembled it and poured the concrete pad for it.
Quinlan stated there are three groups of scouts, and there are three projects to complete.
Kjolhaug suggested we have several parks that would benefit scouts as well.
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Nielsen stated if the intent is changing, he suggested a letter be sent to residents explaining what is
changing. He stated Nick had proposed the entire loop without the bridge. He stated the bridge
was outside Nick’s scope for the project he proposed.
Edmondson asked if a survey would be required. Nielsen stated a survey would be very
expensive. If we get close to the pond, there could be an issue with the Watershed.
Mangold suggested we let Nick know we would go ahead with the trail in the woods and if that
fails, to go ahead with the walking path so we at least get one trail.
Hartmann noted that Nick mentioned in February he could recruit twenty people.
Commissioner Edmondson moved to accept Nick Hostetter’s proposal to install a wood
chip path from the Southshore path around the perimeter of the wooded area coming
around to the dead end where a bridge could be completed at an agreed upon date. If it
does not become acceptable, the path would be installed along the football perimeter.
Mangold seconded the motion. Kjolhaug noted staff would refine the trail location.
Motion carried. Hartmann and Swaggert abstained from voting.
5. DETERMINE DATES FOR PARK TOURS
Quinlan stated every year the Commission tours the parks and jots down what they would like to see
done. It is broken down into two months. He reviewed proposed dates in May and June prior to the
regular meetings.
6.DETERMINE LIAISON FOR CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS
Commissioners volunteered for liaison duties at future City Council meetings. Edmondson
volunteered for June, Mangold volunteered for July, Gordon volunteered for August, Hartmann
volunteered for September, Swaggert volunteered for October, and Quinlan volunteered for
November.
7.CONTINUE MANOR PARK TENNIS COURT DISCUSSION FROM LAST
PARK MEETING OF MARCH 13, 2012
Commissioners continued their discussion of the Manor Park tennis court from the last meeting of
March 13, 2012. Reconstruction of the surface vs. the use of versa court was discussed. Quinlan
noted he and others visited the Eden Prairie site. Quinlan opened the floor for comments. He noted
when he went to Eden Prairie, his first impression was it looked nice from a distance, but he had
concerns over slippage and ball play being slower. He was also concerned about aesthetics. He stated
he would prefer the traditional court surface.
Swaggert asked what the average cost of a new tennis court vs. the versa court for maintenance.
Edmondson noted it would be $100,000 plus $6,000 every spring. He asked how long the court has
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been there. Nielsen stated he believed it was nine years. Hartmann suggested we talk to the Park
Director in Eden Prairie. Nielsen stated more information would be a good idea. He stated the versa
court looks very clean. Edmondson noted the old surface is under the versa court.
Gordon stated that was one of our questions whether you just lay it on the old surface. She asked a
resident how they liked it, and the resident said she doesn’t play on it because it is different. She stated
we needed to play on it. Swaggert stated he would be willing to talk to residents to see how they
would like it.
Quinlan asked what the timeline is to move forward with this project. Nielsen stated that neither
option included financial costs. In terms of timing, the reconstruct might be done in 2013. He didn’t
think there was an urgency for a versa court.
Quinlan was concerned about spending money on the court, and no one wanted to use the court.
Swaggert stated he would interview residents in two weeks, and notices could be sent the week before.
Woodruff suggested a sign be put at the court as well.
Mangold stated the address of the Eden Prairie court location also be indicated as an example for
interested residents. Kjolhaug stated financial information should also be included. Swaggert stated he
is more than willing to work with staff on materials to include.
Mangold stated the USTA is trying to promote tennis for under ten years old and are encouraging
lining especially for new courts.
8.CONTINUE BADGER PARK DISCUSSION
Quinlan stated previous discussion of Badger Park was to eliminate amenities and add those features
we wanted at the park. Nielsen reviewed a list which reflects what was done at the last meeting.
Gordon stated it was mentioned in the minutes but wasn’t changed on the list provided.
Commissioners discussed the list.
Hartmann noted the discussion on the hockey rink had been if it was moved from Badger Park, it could
not go to Freeman because of the sprinkler system. Nielsen stated he would get an answer on that.
Woodruff stated it wasn’t the sprinkler system but the water main that went to Eddy Station. An
adequately sized hockey rink would encroach into a ball field. He stated we would need to get
definitive answers from Larry Brown.
Hartmann suggested a sport court.
Quinlan stated the items remaining to be discussed include the hockey rink. Kjolhaug stated he liked
the idea of a sport court that could be used for tennis, basketball, possibly be flooded in the winter.
Nielsen discussed lighting. Mangold discussed the importance of having hockey and free skating
together.
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Mangold stated he could see hockey going to Freeman as it is more of a sport park.
Woodruff asked if the Commission has assessed the use of hockey rinks over the last several years.
Quinlan stated we don’t have hard numbers, we just know it is down. The organized hockey leagues
are way down.
Woodruff stated city staff could send a short questionnaire to residents to ask questions about hockey,
and there would be a good response. He also said that budgeting for items in the CIP would need to
be determined by August. Nielsen noted Brown would be in attendance at the May meeting to
respond to concerns.
Quinlan stated the Commission will need to take the items decided upon and assign the parks they will
be featured in. Hartmann mentioned that moving the features is a major cost.
Kjolhaug asked if there had been discussion regarding the warming house portion of the plan. Quinlan
stated it is a big part of the plan. Kjolhaug stated it is the most expensive part of the plan.
Commissioners discussed a full service warming house which could be used year round for a shelter.
Quinlan asked how feasible it would be to get residents’ feedback. Woodruff stated a comprehensive
survey of the residents would be best done through utility billing. He would frankly not recommend a
survey on line. He stated a separate mailing would also be an option.
Quinlan stated the questions to ask would be whether the hockey rink at Badger should be eliminated
or moved to Freeman. Hartmann asked if free skating should be added. Nielsen believed they should
be separate. Woodruff suggested the green space in Badger could be flooded for free skating in the
winter. Nielsen stated it wouldn’t stay a green space for long if it was flooded every year.
Gordon stated the first question is what the deal is with Freeman and flooding. Quinlan stated that
would be the first question for Brown. Hartmann suggested adding Freeman to the May tour.
Woodruff stated the tours could be switched so that Freeman and Badger are both part of the tour in
May.
9.NEW BUSINESS
A.New Scout Projects
Quinlan stated there are two new scouts who would like to volunteer time in the parks. He
suggested the Commission come up with a list of projects for them so that it is available when
they contact the city.
Edmondson was familiar with one of the scouts willing to volunteer service to the city.
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Quinlan asked if we should take time tonight or at the next meeting to brainstorm future projects.
Mangold stated our earlier discussion was the bridge construction would be the next project.
Swaggert stated ideas could be generated during the park tours the next two months. Hartmann
stated the buckthorn project is another suggestion.
Quinlan stated the scout projects will be discussed at the next meeting. Edmondson suggested the
scout be contacted to attend a future meeting. Nielsen stated the bridge would be earmarked for
someone with woodworking experience. He believed a standing list of projects would be a great
idea. Kjolhaug suggested getting ideas from staff as well for the list.
10. STAFF AND LIAISON REPORTS/UPDATES
A. City Council
Woodruff updated the Commission on recent Council activities. He noted Dick Osgood from
LMA reported on chemical milfoil treatment, and the Council allocated funds for the treatment of
Phelps and Gideons Bays for 2012. Other items included buckthorn removal, approving the
Hoedown event at Southshore Center, and approving the boat inspection program at Christmas
Lake. Commissioners and staff discussed the proposed inspection program. Nielsen stated the
program would delay any infestation for the immediate future.
B. Staff
Nielsen stated there is an article in the newspaper about the removal of the large willow tree in Manor
Park.
C. Work Program Update
The work program update was reviewed.
D. Grant Update
Nielsen stated staff is looking at trail grants. Quinlan suggested changes be highlighted on the
update and new grants be indicated.
Mangold recommended the tennis court be part of a future grant where twenty percent of the
total project would be paid.
Quinlan suggested Gideon Glen be added to one of the tours.
11. ADJOURN
Edmondson moved, Gordon seconded, to adjourn the Park Commission Meeting of April
5, 2012, at 9:20 p.m. Motion carried.
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RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Clare T. Link
Recorder