072109 pl mn
CITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY, 21 JULY 2009 7:00 P.M.
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Chair Geng called the meeting to order at 7:04 P.M.
ROLL CALL
Present: Chair Geng; Commissioners Arnst, Gagne, Hutchins, Ruoff and Vilett; Planning Director
Nielsen; and Council Liaison Turgeon
Absent: None.
Also present: Park Commission Chair Norman
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
16 June 2009
Gagne moved, Hutchins seconded, Approving the Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of 16
June 2009 as presented. Motion passed 6/0.
1. 7:00 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING – CODE AMENDMENT REGARDING SIGNS
Chair Geng opened the Public Hearing at 7:04 P.M., noting the procedures utilized in a Public Hearing.
He explained items acted upon this evening would be placed on a 27 July 2009 Regular City Council
meeting agenda for further review and consideration.
Nielsen explained during its May 11, 2009, meeting the City Council adopted a resolution denying a
request by South Tonka Little League (STLL) for an amendment to the City Code that would allow
advertising signs to be placed on some of the ball field fences in Freeman Park. The Planning
Commission and the Park Commission had previously recommended against such an amendment. During
that meeting Council directed Staff to explore allowing the signs through some sort of contract between
the City and STLL.
Nielsen then explained City Attorney Tietjen subsequently determined a contractual agreement could be
drafted, but it still would require an amendment to the Code setting forth the authority to execute such a
contract. Staff identified an alternative which is for STLL to apply for a conditional use permit (C.U.P.) to
display commercial advertising signs. This makes it a public process. A C.U.P. request would require an
applicant to come before the Planning Commission for a public hearing and before Council. Staff also
recommends the Park Commission review any request as well. The most significant condition of the
C.U.P. would be that STLL must enter into an annual license agreement with terms acceptable to Council.
This alternative would require an amendment to the Code establishing a conditional use permit provision
to display signs in City parks. During its May 26, 2009, meeting Council directed staff to draft a tightly
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written amendment to the Code establishing such a C.U.P. provision and a license agreement between the
City and STLL.
Nielsen stated the meeting packet for this evening contains a draft text amendment to the Code that adds
to the provisions that allow for temporary signs and a draft license agreement between the City and STLL
for the Planning Commission to review.
Nielsen reviewed the conditions added to Section 1201.03 Subd. 11.c(4) of the Code. The proposed
additions to the text are as follows and are italicized.
“(4) Temporary Signs.
(a) The temporary use of signs, searchlights, banners, pennants and similar devices shall
require a permit. The permit shall be valid for ten consecutive days. The permit shall be
prominently displayed during the period of validity. Only two temporary permits may be
granted for any property within any 12-month period. Temporary signs shall not exceed
32 square feet in area. Any new business that has applied for its permanent business sign
may, at the same time, apply for a temporary business sign to be displayed for no longer
than 30 days, or until the permanent sign has been erected, whichever comes first. The
temporary business sign shall be professionally prepared and shall be no larger than the
approved permanent sign.
(b) A conditional use permit may be granted to nonprofit athletic associations, contracted
with the City pursuant to Section 902.06 of this Code, for the display of temporary
business sponsorship signs to be placed on certain ball field fences on public property,
provided that:
(i) A nonprofit athletic association under contract with the City may display signs only
on facilities that have been reserved for its use.
(ii) Signs may be displayed only in a Community Park, as defined in the Shorewood
Comprehensive Plan.
(iii) Signs may be displayed only on outfield fences, facing into the ball field, and
situated so as to minimize view of the signs from adjacent residential properties.
(iv) All signs must be professionally made, using durable weather resistant material,
painted or colored dark green on the back side of the sign.
(v) Signs are limited in size to no larger than 42 inches in height and seven feet in
length.
(vi) There shall be a minimum spacing between signs of seven feet.
(vii) The maximum number of signs per ball field is 15.
(viii) The nonprofit athletic association is responsible for maintaining the signs in good
repair. If a sign becomes detached, torn or vandalized, the association must repair
or replace them immediately or the sign will be summarily removed by the City.
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(ix) The nonprofit athletic association is responsible for any damage to the fence on
which it is displayed that is caused by installation or display of the sign.
(x) The conditional use permit is subject to review and recommendation by the
Shorewood Park Commission.
(xi) The nonprofit athletic association must obtain an annual license from the City and
enter into a license agreement setting forth the conditions of approval and the
duration of the approval. The association shall pay an annual license fee as
established by the City Council from time to time. The association shall have no
vested right in obtaining fences from season to season.
(xii) It shall be the responsibility of the nonprofit athletic association to obtain a
temporary sign permit for each sign to be displayed on ball field fences, prior to
erecting the sign.”
Nielsen made the following comments or clarifications regarding the above text amendment. All of the
nonprofit athletic associations already contract with the City to use the City’s facilities. STLL contracts
for the use of two fields in Freemen Park. Freeman Park is the City’s largest park; it draws the largest
crowds for sporting events and is generally located the furthest from residential neighborhoods. There is
some rationale for limiting this to Freeman Park. He doesn’t anticipate much damage being caused to the
fences from the signs. The condition about entering into a license agreement is the strongest part of the
text amendment. The license agreement can be revoked quite readily. Council does not have to issue the
license agreement. The C.U.P. provision and the license agreement provide the City both the opportunity
to try allowing signs and still maintain strong control of what happens in the future.
Nielsen stated the Park Commission reviewed this proposed text amendment and STLL’s request for a
C.U.P., including a license agreement, to display signs during its July 14, 2009, meeting. The
Commission expressed a number of concerns, and it made a number of suggestions. He related that the
Commission expressed it was not in support of the text amendment. The Commission asked if the content
of the sign could be regulated. He explained that normally when the City regulates signs the regulations
have to be content neutral. The City Attorney has explained the City can regulate the content because it
owns the property, and she recommended that provision be incorporated in the license agreement.
Park Commission Chair Norman stated the Commission asked Staff to incorporate the provisions it
recommended (e.g., content preview, financial accountability, indemnification for theft and vandalism,
etc.) into the appropriate document for the Commission’s review during its August 11, 2009, meeting.
With regard to the concern about content, Norman explained the Commission thought including a content
provision in one of the documents would make it easier to enforce content restrictions.
Director Nielsen explained the provision asking for financial accountability is to address the Park
Commission’s concern that the money STLL would make from the advertising signage flows back into
the City somehow. For example, it would help with paying the league fees for children, it would help pay
for ball field maintenance and so forth. This provision, if added, would be included in the license
agreement. The Commission wants the display of signs to be limited to the southerly three fields in
Freeman Park. He explained he thought it may be possible to include that restriction, but noted the other
fields in Freeman Park are even further from residences which makes it a little difficult to limit to those
three fields. He stated Staff will look into whether or not that restriction can be included. He commented
the issue of fairness has to be considered as part of that. He explained the Commission also wanted to
include a height restriction off the ground; the suggested restriction would be five or six feet. Park
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Commission Chair Norman explained the Commission wanted all requirements to be clearly specified in
the agreement.
Nielsen explained the Park Commission would prefer to have the money STLL would make from the
signs flow through the Parks Foundation if possible. Park Commission Chair Norman explained the
Commission thought having a third party involved with the disbursement of monies earned from the signs
would help to insure that the funds are used to benefit the City. Nielsen stated he was not convinced
involving the Parks Foundation was appropriate, but it could be possible to include a stipulation that the
funds earned go into the City’s park system. Nielsen noted that Kyle Heitkamp, with STLL, had indicated
the STLL was willing to let people review its financial information. Pat Eagan, with STLL, explained
some of STLL’s money goes to Manitou Park which is located in the City of Tonka Bay; therefore, there
can’t be total accountability to Shorewood only. Norman stated the Park Commission wanted to be
assured that STLL’s contributions to things such as the Diamond Club were not increased because of
funds raised through the display of signs. Mr. Eagan explained STLL uses two fields in Manitou Park and
has games in Cathcart Park.
Nielsen stated that prior to the Park Commission’s August 11, 2009, meeting Staff will have revised the
license agreement to include indemnification language for theft and vandalism of the signs.
Nielsen stated there are two items that must be considered when addressing STLL’s request. The first part
is this text amendment to the Code. The second part is the C.U.P. for STLL, with the main component
being the license agreement between the City and STLL.
Commissioner Arnst asked if any changes to the C.U.P. or license agreement require action by the
Council. Director Nielsen explained Council would have to rescind the license. Typically a licensee who
is in violation of the terms of the agreement would have an opportunity to appeal to the Council to try and
reach an agreement before the license is actually rescinded.
Mr. Eagan stated he was in charge of sponsorship for STLL. He explained he lives in the City and he has
three boys who participate in the STLL program. He stated STLL appreciates the relationship it has with
the City; a relationship it has had for a long time. STLL wants to be a good partner with the City. STLL
does not want to display inappropriate signs, such as those with tobacco or liquor content, on the fences.
Allowing advertising signage would allow STLL to generate revenues that will benefit STLL program
participants.
Commissioner Gagne stated he is totally opposed to the text amendment and the C.U.P. He does not
support having signs in Freeman Park or any other City-owned park. He explained he has lived in the City
since 1961. During that time he has served on various commissions and the council, and was involved
with trying to limit the amount of signage in the City. There were times when it took five or more years to
have a billboard taken down because of a contract. He thought there were other ways for STLL to raise
money. He expressed concern that if the City allowed signs for STLL in Freeman Park it would
eventually allow signs for other organizations in other areas of Freemen Park or other City-owned parks.
He noted he will vote against recommending approval of amendment and the C.U.P.
In response to a question from Commissioner Ruoff, Mr. Eagan explained the sponsorship cost for one
sign for one year is approximately $500, noting he was not entirely sure of that. There is also a one-time
cost for the sign. STLL will ask for a three-year commitment from the advertiser. In response to a
comment from Commissioner Vilett, Mr. Eagan explained STLL’s sponsors are aware the STLL had to
apply for a license with the City annually. The sponsors would be local businesses.
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Mr. Eagan explained that STLL has talked with other sports organizations that use the City’s parks, and
the organizations they have spoken with have no interest in generating sponsorship dollars through the
display of signs. The signs would be temporary, seasonal signs. STLL respects the neighborhood. He
stated the display of signs on ball field fences is part of baseball. STLL is trying to include as many
children ages five through twelve as possible in its little league programs. The funds generated through
the sponsorship signs will help provide scholarships to those children that can’t afford to participate in its
programs. He clarified that STLL intended to display signs on the fences on Field 1 and Field 3 only; not
on Field 2. He stated he does not understand the process that has occurred regarding STLL’s request when
STLL’s program is about children playing baseball.
Commissioner Arnst commented she was the other historian on the Planning Commission. She stated she
started on the Park Commission in 1996 and was a member of that Commission for more than eight years.
During her tenure the Park Commission brought about a great deal of change to the City’s parks. A lot of
infrastructure was added. Policies were developed that were much more inclusive of all age groups. The
Park Commission consistently strived to maintain the balance of the natural aesthetics of the City-owned
parks. Since her tenure, the various Park Commissions have expanded the number of programs offered to
draw more people, but they have not commercialized the parks. She stated she thought it would be
difficult for the City to legally keep the girls’ softball program or any other sports program from trying to
display signs in the fields they use. If signs were allowed on all ball field fences there could be 95 signs.
She expressed that is a big problem. She questioned who subjectively decides what sign is appropriate
and what is not. She stated as soon as the Council has to make decisions it will become political. She
expressed her appreciation for all of the hard work the sports organizations do. She stated allowing signs
in the parks would be a “poke in the eye” to all of the commissions that have done a lot of hard work over
the last 12 – 13 years.
Seeing no one present wishing to comment on this case, Chair Geng opened and closed the Public
Testimony portion of the Public Hearing at 7:35 P.M.
In response to a question from Commissioner Hutchins, Director Nielsen explained the fee for the license
has not been determined. Staff has discussed establishing the annual license fee somewhere between $100
and $150. The City’s fee for temporary signage is $20 per sign. In response to another question from
Hutchins, Mr. Eagan explained the spring little league season is from late April to the end of June and the
fall season is one month long and generally occurs from the beginning to the end of September. Mr.
Eagan stated STLL could take the signs down during the break if that is what the City wanted. STLL
would prefer not to because there are all star teams and other tournament teams that use the fields through
early August. During August there are things such as batting practice that take place. STLL continues to
do its maintenance to the fields during the little league break.
Commissioner Hutchins stated when STLL first came before the Planning Commission with this request
in March 2009 the basis for the request was to generate funds for scholarships through sponsorship
signage. He asked if that is still the intent. Mr. Eagan stated he is not entirely sure what Mr. Heitkamp has
told the City, noting Mr. Heitkamp was coaching in a tournament this evening and could not be present.
STLL’s biggest goal is to use the funds generated from sponsorship signage for scholarships for children
who otherwise could not afford to participate in the little league program. He commented the STLL
program has grown from over 380 participants to more than 500 participants since he has been involved
with STLL. Hutchins asked if STLL needed funds for things other than sponsorships. Mr. Eagan stated
the sponsorship dollars would be used to help offset a need to increase the registration fees to maintain its
programs. STLL doesn’t want to have children who want to play baseball not play because of something
completely out of their control.
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Commissioner Vilett stated she respects Commissioners Arnst and Gagne’s point of view. But, there is an
emotional part of her that wants to help those children who want to participate in the little league program
and can’t because their families can’t pay the registration fee, noting she understands emotions should not
influence her position. When she considers the children it’s difficult for her to say no to the request. When
she considers what past Park Commissions have done it’s difficult to say yes. Mr. Eagan stated the
Planning Commission is being asked to consider a one-season agreement. Vilett stated that no matter how
restrictive the amendment and C.U.P. are, there will always be a way to try and expand the display of
signs in City-owned parks. Mr. Eagan stated the Council has the authority to deny STLL’s request and
any other sport associations’ requests in the future. He then stated STLL believes it will continue to be a
great partner with the City, and this is something STLL thinks will work. If STLL lets the City down by
not doing what it has committed to doing, then Council can rescind or deny the license agreement.
Commissioner Hutchins stated from his vantage point his decision will be a strategic decision. The City
has actively tried to minimize signage in the City for a very long time. He expressed concern about
changing the City’s Code which would establish a long-term commitment and potentially allow for the
expansion of signs into other ball fields. The other sports associations may say they are not interested in
pursuing sponsorship signage now, but that could change in the future if their needs change. He
commented the City is not trying this on a temporary basis the way it did with the Shorewood Yacht
Club’s request for power boats.
In response to a question from Mr. Eagan, Director Nielsen explained that before the City can enter into a
license agreement as a condition of the C.U.P. the City Code must be amended to establish the C.U.P.
process. Nielsen then explained the C.U.P. has a process where if conditions of the C.U.P. are violated the
C.U.P. can be revoked. The license agreement can be rescinded much easier than the C.U.P. can be
revoked because a public hearing would not have to be held to rescind the agreement; it would come
before Council if there is a violation.
Director Nielsen commented that if the sponsorship signage program is successful for STLL he did not
know why another sports organization such as girls’ softball or hockey would not want to have a similar
program. Mr. Eagan stated the City always has the right to stop STLL’s sponsorship program if the City
starts to receive other requests. Nielsen stated the issue would be more about fairness than legal if, for
example, girls’ softball wanted to do the same thing. If the City decided it no longer wanted to allow signs
in City-owned parks it would be likely that the Code would be amended back. Mr. Eagan stated STLL
would like to move forward with its proposed sponsorship signage program, and in the event other
organizations approach the City about doing something similar then STLL would not argue with the City
if it decided to terminate STLL’s license. Nielsen stated should residents express a lot of concern about
the signs the City can react to that by rescinding the license agreement.
Commissioner Ruoff asked Mr. Eagan what he thought the profits would be from such a program. Mr.
Eagan explained the maximum revenues generated is $500 multiplied by 30 signs (15 at each of the two
fields), or $15,000. The cost for the signs and the permits must be deducted from the revenues. Based on
that, the profits could approximate $10,000. In response to another question from Ruoff, Mr. Eagan stated
there are approximately 520 registered participants for STLL’s little league programs.
Ruoff stated he originally supported STLL’s request. He thought STLL is a great organization and the
profits generated would help support the little league program. Based on a great deal of discussion this
has become something greater than STLL’s request. It has become one of selling public spaces. Although
it would be nice to help STLL, changing the ordinance establishes a precedent for allowing other
organizations to make similar requests. His current position is to recommend this be denied. He wants to
support past efforts by Park Commissions to keep signs out of the City-owned parks.
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Chair Geng stated it appeared there is some confusion about what the Planning Commission is being
asked to consider this evening. He recommended it come back to what is on the agenda. He explained the
Commission had the opportunity to consider whether signs should be allowed in City-owned parks; it
recommended against doing so. Council has since made a different policy decision. Council has decided
to move forward on allowing signs in a very controlled and restricted way, and it would allow the City to
stop allowing the display of signs at any time. Council asked Staff to draft a text amendment to the Code.
He noted that in trying to clarify what the Commission is supposed to be considering this evening, he in
no way intended to diminish the issue Commissioners have expressed over things such as aesthetics and
values. He clarified the item before the Commission is the text amendment to the Code. The Commission
has to determine if the draft amendment is adequate or is it so poorly drafted that the Commission
recommends its approval be denied.
Commissioner Arnst stated it was her understanding that Council directed Staff to explore the possibility
of allowing signs, and that Council has not yet decided it would allow the signs. Director Nielsen clarified
Council directed Staff to make it possible to allow STLL to display sponsorship signs. Council had hoped
that could have been addressed through a contract, but that can’t be done. That is when Council directed
Staff to prepare a text amendment. The direction from Council was very clear.
Commissioner Arnst asked if the Planning Commission could state it was uncomfortable with amending
the Code to allow signs because of its enforceability or allowances. Its discomfort is not about the actual
wording of the amendment. Commissioner Vilett stated the Planning Commission is a recommending
body. Chair Geng stated he thought the Commission could as part of its motion indicate its sentiment that
it was not in support of allowing signs in the City-owned parks.
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Park Commission Chair Norman stated the Park Commission continued this item to its August 11
meeting, noting it does not agree with the direction set by Council. This Commission wanted the
opportunity to receive feedback from Staff about its concerns and suggestions.
Chair Geng stated it’s his personal opinion that the Planning Commission can recommend approval of the
text amendment and strongly convey its serious misgivings about doing so. The Commission’s role this
evening is to consider whether the amendment is well crafted.
Council Liaison Turgeon stated Chair Geng is correct in summarizing what the Planning Commission is
being asked to consider this evening. She commented that after being associated with the City for 14.5
years she has never seen two Commissions being put in this spot, but the Planning Commission is there.
She stated on a 4/1, vote with her being the dissenting vote, Council directed Staff to draft the text
amendment and to consider a C.U.P. request from STLL that would allow them to display advertising
signs in Freemen Park. She thought it would be appropriate for the Commission to attach their comments
about not agreeing with allowing the signs to a recommendation for approval of the amendment, noting
it’s within the Commission’s authority and right to do so. She stated the majority of the Council wants to
establish a process for considering such signage requests.
Mr. Eagan stated Director Nielsen’s memo dated July 1, 2009, states “Unless the amendment is
drastically revised, staff recommends approval of the CUP, subject to recommendations of the Park
Commission.” He asked what was trying to be accomplished this evening. It appeared to him that the
Planning Commission was discussing something different then the text amendment itself.
In response to a comment from Chair Geng, Park Commission Chair Norman reiterated the Park
Commission wanted to receive feedback from Staff about its recommendations and concerns relating
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primarily to the stipulations in the license agreement. Although the Park Commission has not taken any
formal action regarding the amendment or C.U.P., it’s not happy with the direction being set by Council
based on the Commission’s previous discussions about allowing signs in the park.
Chair Geng stated at this point there are no changes and modifications that are recommended by the Park
Commission because that Commission has not voted on them. Director Nielsen explained the Park
Commission made some suggestions and had a few questions that Staff can address.
Geng expressed his discomfort with having the City become too involved with STLL’s finances. He
stated STLL is a non-profit athletic organization for youth. STLL has indicated its financial records can
be reviewed by people. If there is some reason to think the money earned from sponsorship signs is being
misappropriated then Council can address that through the licensing procedure. He expressed his
hesitancy to complicate the amendment by requiring some type of financial oversight. Director Nielsen
explained if a provision of that nature were to be agreed to, it would become part of the license
agreement. Mr. Eagan stated STLL would be receptive to review of its financial records.
In response to a comment from Commissioner Hutchins, Director Nielsen explained the provision
requiring an annual license agreement is included in the text amendment. The license agreement can be
discussed as part of the C.U.P.
Chair Geng recommended the Planning Commission first recommend action on the text amendment in
order to move the agenda along.
Hutchins moved, Vilett seconded, reporting to the City Council that the Planning Commission has
reviewed the draft text amendment to the City Code Chapter 1200 regarding temporary signage
and the Commission has no recommendation to provide.
In response to a question from Chair Geng, Commissioner Hutchins explained the intent of the motion is
to provide feedback to the City Council that the Planning Commission has no recommendation with
respect to this ordinance amendment.
Motion passed 5/1 with Geng dissenting.
Commissioner Gagne wanted it to be clear that the Planning Commission is not recommending anything
be changed.
Chair Geng closed the Public Hearing at 8:07 P.M.
2. 7:15 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING – C.U.P. – ADVERTISING SIGNS IN FREEMAN PARK
Applicant: South Tonka Little League
Location: Freeman Park – 6000 Eureka Road
Chair Geng opened the Public Hearing at 8:07 P.M.
There was confusion regarding what the Planning Commission should do about this agenda item being it
made no recommendation about the text amendment which must be approved before a C.U.P. can be
considered.
Director Nielsen stated Council has directed this to be done. If Council should decide to adopt the text
amendment there is the STLL C.U.P. request that must be considered. He asked if there is any thing the
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Planning Commission would want to comment on regarding the C.U.P. which includes the license
agreement. In response to a comment, Nielsen explained the Park Commission has made suggestions for
changes to the license agreement in the event that Council adopts the text amendment. He noted the Park
Commission made it very clear it does not like the idea of allowing signs in the City-owned parks. Park
Commission Chair Norman stated the Park Commission has voted against allowing signs in the parks a
number of months ago, but it has not recommended any action on the text amendment or C.U.P. Should
Council adopt the amendment, the Commission wants Staff to revise the license agreement.
Chair Geng stated the Planning Commission, if so inclined, could make a motion that includes some or all
of the Park Commission’s suggestions.
Mr. Eagan asked if the indemnification language the Park Commission suggests be added to the license
agreement is different then what is in the current draft of the agreement. Director Nielsen stated the
current language relates to someone getting hurt. The Commission wants to include indemnification
relating to theft or vandalism of the signs. The City Attorney would draft the additional indemnification
language for the agreement.
Director Nielsen stated it’s clear the Planning Commission is in disagreement with Council. It’s also clear
that the Council is the policy maker and it has directed this policy to be done. It’s up to the Planning
Commission if it wants to weigh in on how it gets done. The Park Commission suggested a content
provision and an indemnification provision about the signs be added to the license agreement, and it
wants signs to be limited to the southerly three ball fields in Freeman Park.
Hutchins moved, Gagne seconded, recommending the City Council not enact an ordinance
amending Chapter 1200 of the City Code regarding temporary signage.
Chair Geng stated he thought the motion was out of order because the Planning Commission has already
passed a motion regarding the text amendment. The motion was to forward the text amendment to
Council without any recommendation. The item being considered now is STLL’s C.U.P. request.
Director Nielsen explained the Planning Commission can recommend the C.U.P. request be approved,
denied or approved with conditions.
Commissioner Hutchins asked if the Planning Commission does not have authority to present a formal
opinion to Council as to one of its actions.
Director Nielsen stated it sounds as if Commissioner Hutchins would like to reconsider his motion about
the text amendment, and rather then making no recommendation make one that recommends not adopting
the text amendment.
There was ensuing discussion about the motion passed during the public hearing for the text amendment,
the motion just made during this public hearing for STLL’s C.U.P. request and how to proceed. The two
motions are both about the text amendment yet say different things.
Without objection from the seconder, the maker of the motion withdrew the motion.
Hutchins moved, Gagne seconded, reconsidering the motion reporting to the City Council that the
Planning Commission has reviewed the draft text amendment to the City Code Chapter 1200
regarding temporary signage and the Commission has no recommendation to provide. Motion
passed 6/0.
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Hutchins moved, Gagne seconded, amending the motion to recommend the City Council not enact
an ordinance amending Chapter 1200 of the City Code regarding temporary signage. Motion
passed 5/1 with Geng dissenting.
Chair Geng suggested the Planning Commission consider the C.U.P. He asked the Commission how it
wants to proceed.
Director Nielsen suggested the Planning Commission take action on the C.U.P. If Council does not
approve an ordinance amending the Code the action on the C.U.P. is a mute point. If Council approves an
amendment, he asked if the Planning Commission wants to have any input on the C.U.P. The
Commission can recommend the C.U.P. request be approved, denied or approved with conditions.
Commissioner Vilett stated if Council approves an amendment she thought it prudent for the Planning
Commission to provide input on the C.U.P. and license agreement in the event it’s approved by Council.
Park Commission Chair Norman stated that Commission was fairly confident Council would approve a
text amendment and the C.U.P. Therefore, it wanted to have some input about the stipulations in the
license agreement. He noted the Commission did not make a formal recommendation on either.
Mr. Eagan stated he was confused and upset about where the request for advertising signs in Freeman
Park is heading. He’s surprised by the amount of time and money spent on the discussion. STLL has
demonstrated it is a good partner with the City. It values that relationship and doesn’t want to jeopardize
it. He thought STLL clearly communicated what it needs and is looking for. He questioned why STLL
didn’t deserve a chance to try having sponsorship signage. He stated the City can evaluate the situation
and determine how STLL fulfilled its commitments. If STLL doesn’t perform well or if the residents are
upset about the signs then the City can rescind the license agreement. Generating funds through
sponsorships is about providing more 5 – 12 year old children with the opportunity to play baseball. As a
Shorewood taxpayer he is upset about the time and money spent on discussing STLL’s request. He
thought there were a lot of families that participate in the STLL programs that are questioning what is
occurring. STLL is asking for a one-year trial so the City and STLL can evaluate the sponsorship
program. He expressed his disappointment with the Park Commission which is supposed to ensure the
use of the parks is inclusive. He thanked the Planning Commission for its time, and he reiterated how
much STLL appreciates the relationship it has with the City.
Chair Geng again clarified the Planning Commission is a recommending body; Council sets the policy.
Commissioner Ruoff stated he was not against STLL; it’s about signs in the City-owned parks for him.
The Planning Commission wants to convey to Council its position regarding signs in the parks. He
expressed concern about other organizations wanting to have the same opportunity. Allowing STLL to
display signs could set a precedent. Various commissions have fought for years to keep privatization out
of the public systems.
Mr. Eagan stated the license agreement is for one year. The impact of the signs could be re-evaluated if it
becomes a problem. He questioned what the issue would have to be if the City had to enter into a one-
year license agreement with another organization for a similar purpose.
Chair Geng stated it was apparent that there are very strong feelings about this topic.
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21 July 2009
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Seeing no one present wishing to comment on this case, Chair Geng opened and closed the Public
Testimony portion of the Public Hearing at 8:37 P.M.
Hutchins moved, Gagne seconded, recommending denial of a conditional use permit for South
Tonka Little League to display advertising signs on the fences in the ball fields in Freeman Park the
League uses.
Chair Geng stated the Planning Commission has an opportunity to have input on the C.U.P. should
Council decide to pass it. He recommended the Commission provide input if they have any.
Commissioner Gagne suggested any recommendations going forward should come from the Park
Commission.
Commissioner Hutchins questioned how the Planning Commission could be in support of the C.U.P.
when it recommended against approving the text amendment.
Chair Geng stated Council may well approve the amendment to the City Code, and it may also approve
the C.U.P for STLL which includes the license agreement between the City and STLL. If the Planning
Commission thinks the C.U.P. and license agreement are okay then there is no need to make any
recommendations in the event they are approved. He suggested the agreement be modified to include
liability and indemnification language about the signs.
Commissioner Arnst asked if the Planning Commission could have two different motions, noting
Commission Vilett has some recommendations for consideration in the license agreement.
Motion passed 5/1 with Geng dissenting.
Vilett moved, Arnst seconded, recommending that if the Council approves the text amendment to
the City Code regarding temporary signage and is going to approve the conditional use permit for
South Tonka Little League including the license agreement, then the agreement be revised to
include a provision indemnifying the City from any theft or vandalism to the signs and a provision
restricting the content on the signs. Motion passed 6/0.
Chair Geng closed the Public Hearing at 8:45 P.M.
Chair Geng recessed the meeting at 8:45 P.M.
Chair Gen reconvened the meeting at 8:52 P.M.
3. SITE PLAN REVIEW – SUBWAY RESTAURANT PROPOSAL
Applicant: Brian Carney (Carnco Properties LLC)
Location: 5660 County Road 19
Director Nielsen stated Brian Carney, representing Carnco Properties, LLC, has expressed interest in the
property at 5660 Manitou Road. Mr. Carney proposes dividing the existing building on the property. He’ll
use one half of it for a Subway restaurant and the other half will be a future leasable area. The property
has 35,920 square feet in area. It is occupied by a 3000 square foot building, and there is paved parking in
front of the building. Because the property is zoned C-1, General Commercial, the project is subject to
site plan review by the Planning Commission and City Council.
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21 July 2009
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Nielsen reviewed the land use and zoning surrounding the site. To the east is County Road 19, then
commercial in Tonka Bay which is zoned commercial. To the South is a vacant gas station, to the west is
the American Legion, and to the north is the Gideon Glen preservation open space, noting all three are
zoned C-1, General Commercial.
Nielsen explained the applicant proposes adding additional parking on the north and west sides of the
building to accommodate the proposed uses. The northwest corner of the property is devoted to handling
site drainage. Other than new entry doors on the east side of the building and a new window on the north
side, the outside of the building remains mostly unchanged.
With regard to the analysis of the case, Nielsen reviewed how the applicant’s request complies with the
requirements of the Shorewood Zoning Code:
1. Land Use – Restaurants without drive-up facilities are permitted uses in the C-1 zoning
district. The future leasable space cannot be used for additional restaurant space due to
lack of parking.
2. Building Setbacks – The existing building complies with the setback requirements of the
C-1 District which are 30 feet on the front and rear and 15 feet on the sides. The existing
building is 55 feet back from County Road 19, 17 feet from the south property line, 88
feet from the west property line and 97 feet from the north property line.
3. Building Height – The existing building is one story and is less than 15 feet in height.
The C-1 District allows buildings to be three stories or 40 feet in height.
4. Parking – The Zoning Code requires 51 parking spaces for the proposed use with 44 of
them for the restaurant and seven for the future space, anticipating a retail operation. The
original site plan included 54 spaces. The parking lot did not comply with the five-foot
setback requirement on the south side. The revised plan eliminates the three southernmost
spaces to resolve the setback issue, and another one is eliminated for use by an enclosed
trashed area.
The plans do not indicate how loading will be accomplished. It’s anticipated that loading
and trash removal will involve trucks backing in.
5. Building Construction – The existing building is consistent with the standards set forth in
Section 1201.03 Subd. 7.c. of the Zoning Code.
6. Landscaping – The landscape plan, for the most part, eliminates all of the trees on the site
to accommodate parking and drainage improvements. Some trees on the back of the site
will be saved. A number of the trees that will be lost are Cottonwood trees and they are
not protected under the City’s Shorewood Tree Preservation and Reforestation Policy.
The Cottonwood trees are the most noticeable because of their size. The original
landscape plan was very sparse in terms of replacement. The ponding that is required for
the amount of parking that is proposed is going to involve grading along the entire north
edge of the property.
The applicant has submitted a revised landscape plan which is drastically improved.
Screening and buffering has been added on the north side of the site. Room was left to
allow for access to the ponding facility. The County Road 19 Corridor Study calls for
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21 July 2009
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decorative landscaping in front of business sites and a backdrop of evergreens at the rear
of the sites. The revised plan shows landscaping in the front of the building. It also shows
landscaping in the Hennepin Country easement area; if the Country allows that the plants
should be salt tolerant.
Staff recommends approval of the revised landscape plan.
7. Grading and Drainage – The City Engineer indicates there is an apartment building down
stream from the site which has expressed concerns about drainage issues after storms.
Therefore, the Engineer recommends that any of the new storm water created because of
the additional hardcover associated with this request property be stored on site. The
Engineer has stated the original site plan did not meet stormwater rate or volume control
requirements. The most recent site plan proposes the stormwater drainage be conducted
to the northwest corner. A small ponding area is proposed for that area. The water will be
held back by something similar to a berm and work somewhat like a dam. A pipe would
allow the overflow water to flow into a drainage system on the American Legion property
which drains into Gideon Glen which in turn drains into Lake Minnetonka. The applicant
proposes 2:1 slope on the back side of the “berm”. The Engineer has expressed
discomfort with trying to hold back water with a feature that has a 2:1 slope. It’s a more
common practice to have a 3:1 or even 4:1 slope. As of yet, the applicant has not
addressed the rate control issue.
There is a ponding area on the American Legion property. Staff suggests the applicant
consider expanding that ponding area onto the applicant’s property and have a weir
structure separate the applicant’s stormwater from the Legion’s stormwater, thereby
eliminating the large barrel structure shown on the original site plan. By doing this the
applicant would be able to get the 2:1 slope to occur at the back the parking lot and the
water would not be held by the steep slope.
Nielsen stated a new site plan had been submitted earlier in the day. Staff and the City Engineer
recommend the concept be approved subject to the drainage concerns being addressed.
Nielsen stated Mr. Carney was present this evening to answer any questions the Planning Commission
may have.
In response to a question from Commissioner Hutchins, Director Nielsen explained the City’s parking
requirements for a fast-food restaurant are based on the combined square footage of the dining area and
kitchen area. In response to a comment from Hutchins, Nielsen explained the parking requirements are in
line with what other cities have and with what other sources indicate they should be.
In response to a question from Commissioner Ruoff, Director Nielsen explained the footprint of the
structure will not change in size. In response to a comment from Ruoff, Nielsen explained the parking
requirements for the Subway and some type of retail space are 51 spaces. The applicant’s most recent
plan reflects 50 spaces. The applicant should be able to find a different solution for the enclosed trash area
and thereby free up another parking space.
Mr. Carney stated he was relying on the expertise of the engineer he hired to prepare the plan. It’s
unfortunate that the City Engineer and the engineer he hired are not in agreement. He expressed his
commitment to trying to make this work. He commented the parking requirements seemed high for such a
small building, while noting a successful Subway can have 30 – 40 cars at it during the lunch hour.
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21 July 2009
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Director Nielsen explained the alternatives the Planning Commission has with regard to this site review. It
can recommend it be approved, be denied, or approved with conditions. For example, the Commission
can recommend approval subject to the applicant working with the City Engineer to resolve the
Engineer’s drainage concerns. The Commission can also request to review the site plan once it has been
revised to address the drainage concerns. He noted that the revised site plan does not comply with the
five-foot setback requirement on the south side, noting bringing it into compliance should not drastically
affect the layout.
In response to a comment from Commissioner Gagne about the dirt between the building and the old gas
station structure, Director Nielsen explained the City issued a permit to the American Legion to demolish
the old gas station. The dirt is to fill in and level out the gas station site. The Legion has another pile of
dirt on a vacant site it owns.
Commissioner Gagne asked why the City has not chosen to take the initiative to redevelop the entire
northwest corner of the County Road 19 and Smithtown Road intersection. Director Nielsen explained the
City’s Comprehensive Plan indicates the City would prefer to have that area redeveloped as a cohesive
planned development. The Plan also indicates the City may be willing to consider incentives such as tax
increment financing to help a developer develop the entire area. There has been a reasonable amount of
interest expressed in developing the area, but developers gave up on pursuing that when some of the land
owners wanted to sell their properties for much more then the property was worth. Gagne commented
there are cities that acquire such properties and demolish the structures on them. Nielsen stated he did not
foresee the City doing that, in part because of budget constraints.
Arnst moved, Hutchins seconded, recommending concept approval of the site plan for Brian
Carney (Carnco Properties LLC), 5660 County Road 19, subject to the drainage concerns being
resolved to the City Engineer’s satisfaction. Motion passed 6/0.
4. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
There were no matters from the floor presented this evening.
5. DRAFT NEXT MEETING AGENDA
Director Nielsen stated there is consideration of a plat, which entails the rearrangement of lots, scheduled
for the 4 August 2009 Planning Commission meeting. There may be also study session and that portion of
the meeting will be devoted to a continued review of the Comprehensive Plan Planning District Area
Plans.
Director Nielsen stated he had sent out an e-mail to the Planning Commission regarding possibly
scheduling a neighborhood meeting for 29 September 2009, noting he was waiting to hear back from all
the Commissioners.
6. REPORTS
• Liaison to Council
Council Liaison Turgeon reported on matters considered and actions taken at the 22 June 2009 Regular
City Council meeting (as detailed in the minutes of that meeting).
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21 July 2009
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• SLUC
Commissioner Arnst and Director Nielsen stated they attended the June 24, 2009, Sensible Land Use
Coalition program titled Bruce Malkerson and David Sellergren – Unplugged. They both thought the
program was very informative and entertaining.
• Other
Commissioner Gagne stated he would serve as the Liaison to the Council for the July 27, 2009, City
Council regular meeting.
7. ADJOURNMENT
Vilett moved, Arnst seconded, Adjourning the Planning Commission Meeting of 21 July 2009 at
9:23 P.M. Motion passed 6/0.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Christine Freeman, Recorder