PC-06-04-13
CITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY, JUNE 4, 2013 7:00 P.M.
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Chair Geng called the meeting to order at 7:01 P.M.
ROLL CALL
Present: Chair Geng; Commissioners Davis, Garelick (arrived at 7:17 P.M.), Labadie, Maddy and
Muehlberg; Planning Director Nielsen; and Council Liaison Hotvet
Absent: Commissioner Charbonnet
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Davis moved, Maddy seconded, approving the agenda for June 4, 2013, as presented. Motion passed
5/0.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
May 7, 2013
Davis moved, Labadie seconded, approving the Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of May 7,
2013, as presented. Motion passed 5/0.
2. 7:00 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING – CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR AUTOMOBILE
CLEANING AND BICYCLE REPAIR SERVICE
Applicant: James Steinwand
Location: 5680 County Road 19
Chair Geng opened the Public Hearing at 7:04P.M., noting the procedures utilized in a Public Hearing. He
noted that the Planning Commission is an advisory body only. The City Council has the ultimate say. He
stated James Steinwand is requesting a conditional use permit (C.U.P.) for an automobile cleaning and
bicycle repair service operation at 5680 County Road 19. He noted Mr. Steinwand is present.
Director Nielsen explained that Mr. Steinwand is the owner of My Car Guy, LLC. He operates that
business at 24470 Smithtown Road; two parcels down from the 5680 County Road 19 property. He
proposes to lease the 5680 County Road 19 property from the American Legion to expand his business to
include auto detailing and bicycle repair on the subject location. The American Legion operates between
the 24470 Smithtown Road property and the 5680 County Road 19 property.
The site is occupied by an old gas station building that has been vacant for a number of years. It is zoned
C-1, General Commercial and contains 13,414 square feet of area. The existing building measures 28 feet
by 44.5 feet and contains 1246 square feet of floor area.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 4, 2013
Page 2 of 17
Land uses and zoning surrounding the subject property are: north – retail store zoned C-1; east – County
Road 19, then commercial strip mall in Tonka Bay zoned commercial; south – Smithtown Road then golf
course zoned R-1A, Single-Family Residential; and, west – American Legion Club zoned C-1.
The parking lot has been somewhat torn up by the removal of the old gas tanks. The building itself
complies with setback requirements for the C-1 district. The parking lot is substandard because it
encroaches on what is technically the front of the lot and to a small degree on the side abutting County
Road 19. The applicant proposes using the existing pavement and patching it where necessary. Five
parking spaces will be added on the southwest corner and two on the east side of the property.
Nielsen noted that this property is part of the Smithtown Crossing Redevelopment Study area (Study
area). When the Smithtown Crossing Study was done it was noted that redevelopment of some parcels in
the area may be proposed that is not consistent with the Study. But, if what is proposed is consistent with
the zoning it would be evaluated based on current zoning standards. That is what was done in the staff
report dated May 30, 2013, for the former gas station property.
With regard to the analysis of the case, Nielsen explained the applicant’s proposal falls into the category
of “auto repair – minor” which requires a C.U.P. pursuant to Section 1201.22 Subd. 4.d of the Shorewood
Zoning Code. This particular C.U.P. lists 15 conditions that must be satisfied in order to obtain a permit.
He highlighted those for consideration.
1. The applicant does not propose to physically alter the building, with the exception of the two
overhead doors to be added on the east side, facing County Road 19.
2. The applicant has not submitted any kind of landscape plan so it is not known what treatment will
be given to areas not covered by building and parking.
3. The applicant’s plans are extremely rudimentary and do not address how the parking lot
resurfacing will be drained. A drainage plan, prepared by a registered professional engineer or
landscape architect should be required prior to final approval of a C.U.P.
4. There is no indication in the applicant’s submission that curbing is proposed for the parking and
driveway areas. The Zoning Code does require that the parking area have perimeter curbing
around the parking and driveway pavement. The parking has to be striped.
5. Landscaping should include some sort of screening along the south edge of the proposed parking
area, as well as additional vegetation as recommended in the County Road 19 Corridor Study.
6. The applicant proposes to retain both driveways on the property. Staff suggests that the northerly
driveway on County Road 19 is unnecessary to the proposed operation, it results in a poor
parking layout, and it adds additional hardcover. If that driveway was removed it would provide
an opportunity for better parking lot design. Staff prepared an enhanced site plan that shows one
way to do that.
7. The applicant has not submitted a sign plan; that can be addressed administratively under a
separate sign permit. The property is allowed three signs in total, one free-standing sign and two
wall signs. Like other properties, this one is allowed two temporary sign permits for ten days each
per year. They can be run back to back for twenty days in a row. The C.U.P. should reference
compliance with sign codes as a condition of approval. The C.U.P. should address the issue of
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 4, 2013
Page 3 of 17
using business vehicles as signage (e.g. commercial vehicles must be screened from view,
particularly outside of business hours).
8. The applicant has indicated that there will be no outdoor storage. The permit should expressly
state that outdoor storage of any kind is not allowed. That would have required a separate C.U.P.
It’s anticipated there will be some overnight parking. That should be addressed in the C.U.P. – it
should not exceed 24 hours. Along with that, the applicant’s plans should address where the trash
enclosure will be located.
9. The proposed use is not what was intended in the Smithtown Crossing Redevelopment Study.
The Study states that individual sites will be reviewed under current code requirements.
Although it appears that the American Legion is simply trying to rent the space until ultimate
redevelopment of the area occurs, it is essential that even “temporary” activities meet city
standards.
With regard to site requirements, Nielsen explained the applicant’s plans are considered quite conceptual
and have not been professionally prepared. He reviewed items that should be required to be included in
plans prepared by professionals, either a registered engineer or a registered landscape architect.
1. The existing building complies with C-1 district setback requirements, but the current parking lot
does not. The applicant’s plans propose to use the parking lot and driveways as they currently
exist, patching in where asphalt has previously been removed. It is recommended that the parking
lot be corrected to include concrete perimeter curbing and removing the portions of the parking
lot that do not comply.
2. The applicant proposes five perpendicular parking spaces in the southwest corner of the site and
two parallel spaces along the east edge of the parking lot. For the use proposed, the Zoning Code
requires eight parking spaces. Staff prepared an enhanced site plan that shows one way this could
be revised to achieve the eight spaces while correcting the existing nonconformity; it is not
considered to be the best design. Circulation between the two driveways conflicts with the
parallel parking and the parallel parking may conflict with access into the building. Staff prepared
an alternative site plan that eliminates the County Road 19 driveway and creates four
perpendicular parking spaces on the north side of the existing pavement.
3. No landscape plan has been presented. The applicant should be directed to commission a
registered landscape architect to prepare a landscape plan that includes the requirements of the
Zoning Code and the recommendations of the County Road 19 Corridor Study.
Nielsen stated based on the review of the case, at this time the best staff can recommend is some sort of
conceptual approval. Basically, the use is acceptable subject to addressing the issues raised. Conditions of
that use would be addressed upon receipt of plans that would address what site improvements would be
made.
Nielsen noted staff recommends conceptual site approval only. The applicant should come back with
professionally prepared site plans in compliance with the City Ordinance.
Mr. Steinwand noted that he understands all of the conditions that Director Nielsen brought up. He also
noted that the My Car Guy business is doing fine in the building located at 24470 Smithtown Road. He
stated he thought it would be fun to clean up the old gas station building in a very economical way. He
commented that everyone knows there is limited life left for that building; it’s in very poor condition. It
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 4, 2013
Page 4 of 17
has been an eyesore for many years. He stated he thought it would be easy to spruce it up – to get the
landscaping and the yard looking nice, and to paint the building.
Mr. Steinwand noted that although he did not realize it at the time he submitted his application he now
understands the City is going to construct the County Road 19 trail which will go from the LRT Trail to
the existing sidewalk on the northeast quadrant of the intersection of County Road 19 and Smithtown
Road.
Mr. Steinwand stated the auto cleaning and bicycle repair operation is not going to be a money making
deal for him. He also noted there is no bicycle repair shop in the area any more. He stated the feedback he
has received from people in the area about this idea has all been positive; in part, because of cleaning up
the corner. He stated it’s nice that the Lucky 7 gas station is coming to the southeast quadrant of the
intersection. He noted that it is not within his budget to put a lot of money into the old gas station building
or property, and stated he is not sure anyone else is willing to do that. He stated he thought he could clean
the building and property up, and that the people who own the Heartbreaker men’s store next to his
property would like to see that happen.
Mr. Steinwand noted that he did not anticipate having any parking at the 5680 County Road 19 property
day time or night time. There is a huge parking lot at the 24470 Smithtown Road property. Customers’
cars are not stored outside overnight. And, the majority of the business at the 5680 County Road 19
property will be bicycle repair. He explained the paper work processing will done in the facility My Car
Guy operates out of now. There will be limited use of the parking area at the site location. He stated he
would like to bring the parking lot to a condition better than it was when it was the bait shop. He has an
estimate for restoring the surface above where the gas tanks were to what it was. That condition was
obviously fine back then. He noted that he has spoken to representatives from the Minnehaha Creek
Watershed District (MCWD) and they have no issues with what he is proposing. He stated he and his wife
would like to clean up the building and site for about $10,000; he cannot do that for tens of thousands of
dollars. He explained that garbage will be handled out of the My Car Guy facility. He stated he could
have it cleaned up by July 1 if the C.U.P. is approved the third week of June. He then stated if the
expensive improvements suggested by Director Nielsen are required he cannot do what he is proposing.
Chair Geng asked Mr. Steinwand about the type of lease agreement he has reached with the American
Legion. Mr. Steinwand stated he has a 10-year lease agreement for the Blair Burry building where he
operates his My Car Business out of and he had hoped to get the same term for the American Legion
owned property. He noted the tentative agreement is for a five-year lease. Due to the unknown life of the
building no one wants to commit to five years. That is another reason it does not make sense to put a lot
of money into the building and site.
Geng stated the 5680 Country Road 19 property is part of the Smithtown Road Redevelopment Study
area. He asked Mr. Steinwand if he has had any discussion with American Legion representatives about
the possibility of a developer buying individual parcels or a number of parcels in that Study area. Mr.
Steinwand stated that has been discussed but people do not think that will happen within the five-year
lease period.
Mr. Steinwand stated he is not going to do anything to the inside of the old gas station / bait shop facility
other than whitewash it and clean it up.
Mr. Steinwand then stated he thought the Smithtown Crossing Redevelopment Study area also included
the gas station property located on the southeast quadrant of the County Road 19 and Smithtown Road
intersection. Chair Geng stated it does but the focus to date has been on the northwest quadrant.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 4, 2013
Page 5 of 17
Chair Geng asked Mr. Steinwand if the American Legion is comfortable entering into a five-year lease
agreement. Mr. Steinwand responded apparently yes. Geng asked if there would be a way for the
American Legion to void the lease if a developer presented the Legion with an opportunity to sell the
property. Mr. Steinwand stated he can only assume what would happen; but, he does not know.
Commissioner Garelick asked if the customer base for the bicycle repair business will be same as the
customer base for the My Car Guy business. Mr. Steinwand stated the bicycle business will be called
South Lake Cycle and doing business as part of My Car Guy. Garelick commented that he views My Car
Guy as an upscale operation. Garelick asked if South Lake Cycle will also be upscale. Mr. Steinwand
clarified he does not consider his car repair business to be upscale nor his potential bicycle repair business
to be upscale. The services are for people from all different walks of life. Garelick stated if South Lake
Cycle does not come to fruition he asked where people take a bike for repair. Mr. Steinwand stated there
is no one in the South Lake area.
Commissioner Davis stated if South Lake Cycle comes to fruition she would immediately take her bike
there for a tune-up. She explained she cannot transport it to, for example, Chanhassen. She could ride it to
South Lake Cycle and walk home. Mr. Steinwand noted they pick up and deliver bicycles, and they have
loner bicycles.
Mr. Garelick asked Mr. Steinwand how many employees South Lake Cycle would have. Mr. Steinwand
responded probably two or three. Mr. Steinwand explained the main technician used to own a bicycle
shop in the City of Excelsior, noting he has no interest in being a full-time technician forever.
Commissioner Labadie stated her major concern is drainage. She asked Mr. Steinwand if he was aware he
would have to have a drainage plan when he estimated his fix-up costs to be $10,000. Mr. Steinwand
stated there is sewer drainage along the existing curbing. He then stated if the asphalt is restored to the
way it was before the gas tanks were taken out drainage should be the same as before.
Lowell Day (Boone), 25 Pleasant Avenue, Tonka Bay, and a representative for the American Legion
located at 24450 Smithtown Road, noted there are two catch basins on the subject property. They were
put in as part of the reconstruction of the County Road 19 and Smithtown Road intersection. He explained
that before the intersection was reconstructed the subject property line went straight because Smithtown
Road went straight. When the reconstruction came along Hennepin County took a pie-shaped piece of
land. Mr. Day stated once the asphalt is restored over the location of the former gas tanks the drainage
should be the same as what it was after the intersection was reconstructed. He then stated that Mr.
Steinwand did want a ten-year lease for the 5680 County Road 19 property but the American Legion was
more inclined to have a five-year lease agreement with a buy-out clause included. He went on to state he
does think that someday that area will be redeveloped, but he has been around the American Legion for a
long time and he does not think that will happen over the next three years. It may over the next five years.
He noted that Mr. Steinwand has been a good neighbor, and that he keeps his site clean. He stated the old
bait facility is a bit of an eyesore and Mr. Steinwand has proposed an opportunity to clean it up a little.
In response to a question from Commissioner Maddy, Mr. Steinwand noted My Car Guy already provides
car detailing services. Mr. Steinwand explained that his car repair side of the business is picking up and
he wanted to move the detailing work to the building located at 5680 County Road 19. He stated there
will be a My Car Guy sign and a South Lake Cycle sign on that property and most of the activity there
will be for bicycles. Maddy asked if Mr. Steinwand anticipates selling bicycles or bicycle accessories. Mr.
Steinwand responded at this time no.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 4, 2013
Page 6 of 17
Mr. Steinwand stated he wants to do what he has proposed and that he thought it would be good for that
corner.
Chair Geng opened the Public Testimony portion of the Public Hearing at 7:35 P.M.
Bill Henney, 25920 Birch Bluff Road, stated he has done business with Mr. Steinwand for about fifteen
years; most recently at My Car Guy in Shorewood and for fourteen years before that when Mr. Steinwand
ran the Midas business at the intersection of Highway 7 and Vine Hill Road. He noted as a customer his
experiences have always been positive. He also noted that he supports what Mr. Steinwand is proposing.
He stated Mr. Steinwand has already brought one new business to Shorewood. It has been good for Mr.
Steinwand, Shorewood and the customers of My Car Guy. He then stated he thought the proposed bicycle
repair business would be a unique business for Shorewood. He went on to state Mr. Steinwand is
proposing to change an eyesore into business operation and he expressed his support for that.
Bruce Smith, 5875 Country Club Road, stated he is a customer of My Car Guy. He then stated he thought
what Mr. Steinwand is proposing would be a great thing for the community and it would clean up what is
currently an eyesore. He expressed his support for what Mr. Steinwand is proposing.
Jessie Steinwand, 20795 Garden Road, noted he is a son of Mr. Steinwand and an employee of My Car
Guy on the weekends. He has a remodeling company in Shorewood. He stated he would probably be
responsible for getting the old bait shop building functional. He expressed his support for what Jim
Steinwand is proposing to do.
Chair Geng closed the Public Testimony Portion of the Public Hearing at 7:38 P.M.
Commissioner Davis asked Director Nielsen if the building has to be inspected. Director Nielsen stated it
does. Davis noted that the building has been gutted. She stated she concurs with Mr. Day that there are
two catch basins there. She explained if the area were to re-sculpt the curb there that would interfere with
the drainage and existing catch basins. There had been a landscaping plan done once for the subject site.
Davis stated, with the understanding that Mr. Steinwand wants to get the proposed business going, she
asked if he could come back with a plan for items on the list Nielsen presented for the Planning
Commission to consider two weeks from now. She then stated that property is an eyesore and anything
done to that property will be an improvement; even if it is just painting it and repairing the asphalt.
Director Nielsen stated he does not disagree with Commissioner Davis’s argument. Unfortunately, there
are probably a lot of places in the City where the same thing could be said about them. He then stated the
City has to consider requests as if they will be there for a long time. It may be three to five years, or it
could be ten years. He went on to state it is up to the Planning Commission and City Council to allow
something less than what the City Code requires and that would require a variance which would have to
be processed as such. If Mr. Steinwand doesn’t want to put in curbing he needs to make that proposal and
make a variance request.
Commissioner Davis asked if he could put in hand-formed asphalt curb rather than concrete curb?
Director Nielsen stated the City has allowed that. Nielsen noted snowplows wreck that type of curbing.
He does not think that is a good alternative.
Director Nielsen explained the City Code addresses what is called an interim C.U.P. It’s basically a
C.U.P. for something that is an interim use. It may be possible under that to work around some of the
requirements. He clarified that suggests there would be a definite time period and if the interim use goes
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 4, 2013
Page 7 of 17
beyond that the site would have to be brought into compliance with the City Code. The process for the
interim C.U.P. would be the same as just the C.U.P.
Nielsen noted an engineer can make the curbing work with the existing catch basins.
Commissioner Davis stated she would like the driveway on the north end closed off. She noted that she
frequently sees people cut through the subject property using that driveway.
Chair Geng stated he would have difficulty recommending to the City Council that it approve this C.U.P.
because from his perspective the application seems to be inadequate. He noted that Director Nielsen has
detailed a number of points that need to be addressed. He stated he appreciates there is a need for a
bicycle repair shop in the South Lake area. He then stated he appreciates the spirit of the applicant in
coming forward with a goal of wanting to make positive change. He did not believe there would be any
disagreement with the characterization that the subject property is an eyesore. He went on to state that the
City has adopted a Zoning Code stipulating numerous regulations and the Planning Commission and
Council need to stand by that. From time to time there have been instances where people have sought a
variance from compliance with certain aspects of the Code. That has not been asked for in this
circumstance.
Geng noted that it is unclear to him what the plan is. It has been characterized by Nielsen as more of a
concept plan. He stated based on comments made by some Commissioners there seems to be sympathy
for the concept. But, when it comes to compliance with the Zoning Code Nielsen has indicated that it does
not seem like enough thought has gone into addressing some areas of the Code. He then stated there is no
professional plan for things such as drainage, circulation, parking or landscaping. He noted that he
understands that there is a cost associated with doing that. He also understands that the bicycle repair
business may not justify that expense.
Geng stated that Nielsen has suggested an interim C.U.P. as an alternative to the C.U.P. for a set period of
years. The applicant could give some thought to that. He then stated that he does not think the plan as
submitted is ready to be sent to the City Council. There are too many provisions in the Zoning Code that
have not been addressed. He explained if in the end the applicant wants to seek relief from certain Code
requirements that requires applying for a variance. The City is required to publicize an application for a
variance(s) to allow members of the community the opportunity to voice their perspectives on the
requested variance(s). He noted the best the Planning Commission could do this evening is recommend
conceptual approval. He stated he thought all of the Commissioners are in favor of cleaning up the site.
He then stated the suggested use is reasonable.
Commissioner Labadie stated recreational biking is done in the summer time for most people. She stated
there are timelines that must be adhered to for publication of when a variance would be considered. She
questioned if those timelines will work for the applicant. She stated it seems that the applicant has a
maximum dollar amount of about $10,000 that he wants to spend on the property and building. She asked
if the applicant has a date by which the bicycle repair business has to start operating if it is going to go
into operation at all this season.
Mr. Steinwand stated he understands there are Zoning Code regulations. He also understands what he is
proposing is a temporary thing. And, that there are things that are not in compliance. But, he is not going
to spend the money to do all of the things Director Nielsen identified. He then stated he remembers what
the site looked like when it was a bait shop (probably most of his life time) and he can make the site look
much better than what it looked like then relatively quickly. He went on to state if he can’t do something
without bringing everything into compliance then he is not going to do anything.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 4, 2013
Page 8 of 17
Commissioner Davis stated there are three big issues – landscaping, parking and drainage. Parking and
drainage are actually one issue. She then stated even if the Planning Commission called another meeting
for two weeks from now to address this request it would not go before Council until July 8 at the earliest
assuming everything was perfect. She clarified she is not saying the proposal can’t move forward; only
that it has to do so within a specified timeframe.
Director Nielsen stated if the application were amended to an interim C.U.P., based on the publication
timeline, the earliest it would appear on the Planning Commission meeting agenda would be on July 2. It
could possibly be placed on the July 8 Council meeting agenda.
Mr. Day asked why a landscaping plan has to be prepared by a professional. Can it just be a piece of
paper with options? Chair Geng stated he did not think it would pass muster with the Planning
Commission or the City Council. Mr. Day asked why. Geng explained the City has a Zoning Code and it
includes professional design standards.
Mr. Steinwand noted the property that the Heartbreaker store is located on which abuts the subject
property on the north has no landscaping. Director Nielsen stated Heartbreaker moved into an open retail
operation.
Mr. Day stated there is existing asphalt curb on a portion of the subject property. He asked why that
cannot just be continued. He commented that to say a snowplow would hit the curbing would be
speculative at best. Director Nielsen stated extending the asphalt curbing could be considered if the
applicant decides to go with an interim C.U.P.
Mr. Day noted he is still confused about the need for a professional landscaping plan. Chair Geng stated
the plan would have to be prepared by either a professional landscaper or by a civil engineer to address
the various Code requirements. Commissioner Davis noted that landscape architects and designers deal
with drainage as well.
Garelick moved, directing the applicant to amend his conditional use permit request to be an
interim conditional use permit and submit that.
The motion died for lack of a seconded.
Chair Geng clarified that the Planning Commission cannot instruct the applicant to do that. He noted that
he thought that is a sensible suggestion. He stated if the applicant wants to move forward with the
proposal the Zoning Code requirements have to be addressed in some way. They can be addressed by
specifying how requirements will be complied with or by asking for a variance(s). He noted state law
requires notice to the public a certain amount of time in advance of the variance being considered. He
stated if the applicant wants to consider resubmitting the plan as an interim C.U.P. the existing application
will have to be amended and resubmitted to the City. The Planning Commission would then evaluate the
amended application. The resubmitted plan will have to show how it complies with Code requirements or
if the applicant chooses he can make requests for one or more variances from certain provisions in the
Code. He noted the Commission is very supportive of the conceptual plan.
Director Nielsen asked if it may be appropriate for the Planning Commission to grant conceptual approval
and continue the Public Hearing to its July 2, 2013, meeting. He stated during that time he can work with
Mr. Steinwand about which application he should be submitting. If the applicant were to take the interim
C.U.P. approach the current application can be amended to that effect and notice published. The applicant
can address the comments and recommendations in the staff report as well as the Planning Commission’s
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 4, 2013
Page 9 of 17
comments. The applicant could instead apply for variances. He noted that it would be difficult for a
variance to be granted in this situation.
Commissioner Maddy stated if the Planning Commission expresses its support for the plan in concept and
if the applicant addresses the three issues before the next City Council meeting would it be possible to
move this along more quickly. Director Nielsen stated if the applicant came back with plans that resolve
the three issues and if the Planning Commission is willing to meet in two weeks this could possibly be
placed on the July 8 City Council meeting agenda.
Maddy commented that there probably is not a person in the City who does not want to see something
better on that corner. He stated he wants to give the applicant a chance to spend more money and do it
right or amend their application for an interim C.U.P.
Chair Geng stated the applicant is going to have to decide about the various Zoning Code compliance
issues, noting there are more than the three main issues. He then stated the applicant needs to submit
something on paper indicating how the plan complies or does not comply. Nielsen reminded the applicant
th
that revised plans would have to be submitted no later than early in the week of the 24.
Commissioner Labadie stated if the amended application addresses the issues and if the Planning
Commission is ready to forward it to Council with a recommendation, she asked what the earliest is that
Council could consider this. Director Nielsen stated possibly during its July 8 meeting.
Geng moved, Davis seconded, continuing the public hearing for a conditional use permit for an
automobile cleaning and bicycle repair service for James Steinwand for the property located at
5680 County Road 19 to the July 2, 2013, Planning Commission meeting to provide the applicant
the opportunity to address the code compliance issues identified in the May 30, 2013, staff report
and expressing the Planning Commission’s conceptual approval of the proposed land use. Motion
passed 6/0.
3. DISCUSSION
Zoning Code – General Provisions - Fences
Director Nielsen explained the Planning Commission had recommended to Council that the City adopt a
system of zoning permits. A zoning permit system would address things not covered in the Building Code
yet regulated in the Zoning Code. There was a short list of items recommended for the permits’ items that
the City has had issues with in the past. Council adopted an ordinance during its March 25, 2013,
establishing such a system subject to leaving fences, temporary signs and patios/sidewalks until staff
provide Council with definitions for those items. Staff provided Council with definitions for those three
items during Council’s April 8, 2013, meeting. Council asked that the Commission discuss the proposed
clarifications before Council takes action on them.
With regard to fences, Nielsen explained the concern expressed by Council was about what type of fence
would be subject to a zoning permit. For example, would a picket fence or wire fence around landscaping
require a permit? In the past, when fences were handled under building permits the City did not require a
permit for that type of fence. There was Council consensus that it should be clarified. He thought height
was the main issue for fences. He suggested an exception for unobtrusive fences (e.g., interior yard type
fences) less than three feet in height be incorporated into the Zoning Ordinance. He then suggested
changing Section 1201.03(f)(9)(iv) which currently reads “Subject to other restrictions within this
section, fences may be constructed to a height of six feet on or along the side yard property line from the
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 4, 2013
Page 10 of 17
rear lot line to the required front yard setback line;” to include except side yard property lines abutting
the street. This is particularly for corner lots. He went on to suggest Section 1201.03(f)(9)(vi) which
currently reads “All boundary line fences in residential districts shall be constructed in a manner that at
least 25% of the plane between the ground and the top of the fence constructed is open …” be relaxed for
four-foot-high fences. He explained the main concern with solid fences is the wind resistance; that is not a
problem for four-foot-high fences. The ratio between the amount of the fence post that is below ground
and above ground is not that great for a four-foot high fence as it is for a six-foot high fence.
Nielsen stated if the Planning Commission is amenable to the three changes he suggested a public hearing
would be scheduled for those amendments during the July 2, 2013, Planning Commission meeting.
Commissioner Davis asked what the standard height of chicken wire is. Director Nielsen responded it
varies, but it may not get much higher than four feet. She suggested four feet high should be the exception
for chicken wire garden fences. She stated she applauded Council for sending this to the Planning
Commission.
Chair Geng clarified that what is being talked about is an exemption for interior fences rather than
parameter. Director Nielsen stated it’s possible the garden chicken wire fence could go along the property
line for corner lots. Nielsen noted the current ordinance does talk about interior yard fences. It states if it
is eight feet from the property line it is considered an interior fence. Nielsen stated if a four-foot-high
fence is at the boundary line it should probably require a permit. Maybe it is the interior four-foot-high
fence for a garden should be what is exempted.
There was Planning Commission consensus to provide an exception for an interior four-foot-high wire
fence.
Director Nielsen stated he will put the three agreed upon amendments into an ordinance amendment for
the July 2, 2013, Planning Commission meeting.
Commissioner Davis asked Council Liaison Hotvet if she thought the Planning Commission addressed
Council’s concern. Hotvet responded she thought so.
Council Liaison Hotvet stated an open-wire fence is somewhat viewed as a temporary fence.
Commissioner Maddy asked if the proposed amendment would prohibit someone from putting up a six-
foot-high wire fence to protect against deer provided they got a permit. Director Nielsen stated as long as
they got a permit it would be permitted.
Commissioner Labadie asked if a person has to reapply for a fence permit annually. Director Nielsen
noted they do not.
Noise Ordinance
Director Nielsen stated the Planning Commission has been working on and off for the past year on a
possible noise ordinance. He noted the City has not had a noise ordinance in the past. He stated from his
perspective there have been enough noise issues that it may be time to put one into effect. He then stated
most other cities’ noise ordinances attempt to deal with hours of operation; not metering noise. He noted
there is a provision in the City Code that deals with noise levels for sustained noise. He explained there
had been a few instances when staff went to a site to measure sustained noise with a noise meter
generated by equipment. Staff was able to prove the noise exceeded the Minnesota Pollution Control
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 4, 2013
Page 11 of 17
Agency (MPCA) standards. The draft noise ordinance would address things such as domestic power
equipment (e.g., lawn mowers, chain saws, leaf blowers, etc.); things that cannot be measured by a noise
meter. From the beginning staff has tried to make the draft noise ordinance similar to other South Lake
cities’ ordinances; in particular the City of Excelsior’s.
Nielsen stated the Planning Commission is being asked to again consider the draft ordinance staff wrote
dated September 27, 2012. The ordinance would be an amendment to Chapter 501 (the nuisance section)
in the City Code. The Commission discussed that draft ordinance during its October 2, 2012, meeting.
Nielsen reviewed the draft ordinance’s hourly restrictions on certain operations.
Recreational vehicles – No person shall, between the hours of 9:30 P.M. and 7:30 A.M. drive or
operate any minibike, snowmobile, or other recreational vehicle not licensed for travel on public
highways.
Domestic power equipment - No person shall operate a power lawn mower, power hedge clipper,
chain saw, mulcher, garden tiller, edger, drill, or other similar domestic power maintenance
equipment except between the hours of 7:30 A.M. and 9:30 P.M. on any weekday or between the
hours of 9:00 A.M. and 9:00 P.M. on any weekend or holiday. Snow removal equipment is
exempt from this subsection.
Refuse hauling - No person shall collect or remove garbage, refuse, or recycling in the city,
except between the hours of 6:00 A.M. and 8:00 P.M. on any day. Nielsen noted Excelsior does
not allow haulers to start before 7:00 A.M. He stated the Planning Commission may want to
adjust the start time for the City.
Construction activities – No person shall engage in or permit construction activities involving the
use of any kind of electric, diesel, gas-powered machine, or other power equipment except
between the hours of 7:00 A.M. and 7:00 P.M. on any weekday or between the hours of 8:00
A.M. and 6:00 P.M. on any Saturday. No construction activities are allowed on any Sunday.
Nielsen noted Excelsior allows construction until 8:00 P.M.
Optional – Residential construction, repairs or maintenance, including lawn maintenance,
conducted by the homeowner or occupant shall be permitted between the hours of 8:00 A.M. and
6:00 P.M. on Sundays and public holidays. Nielsen suggested incorporating this into the final
draft ordinance.
Nielsen noted the unusual nuisance situation in the Hillendale Drive neighborhood cannot effectively be
addressed by the noise ordinance. There is no way to write an ordinance to address the behavior of the
people causing the situation. He stated Staff continues to work on alternative solutions to that problem.
Nielsen stated he thought the draft ordinance would be a good amendment to the City Code.
Chair Geng noted that the hours of operation for domestic power equipment and in the optional language
are inconsistent. In the optional language the hours of operation would be shortened. Director Nielsen
acknowledged the hours need to be made consistent.
Director Nielsen asked if the 9:00 A.M. – 9:00 P.M. hours of operation on weekends and holidays in
domestic power equipment is too liberal or the hours of operation of 8:00 A.M. – 6:00 P.M. in the
optional language on weekends and holidays too conservative. Chair Geng stated he thought 9:00 A.M. –
9:00 P.M. is reasonable. Commissioner Muehlberg stated he thought the end time of 9:00 P.M. is too late.
Commissioner Davis stated especially on Sundays and holidays. Commissioner Maddy stated he has
mowed his lawn past 8:00 P.M.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 4, 2013
Page 12 of 17
Commissioner Maddy asked if the duration of sound had been considered.
Director Nielsen suggested the Planning Commission discuss the restrictions one by one.
After discussion about whether or not to have different hours of operation for different types of
recreational vehicles, there was Planning Commission consensus to have Director Nielsen include an
exception for snowmobiles in route to or from trails or a lake in the hours of operation for recreational
vehicles. There was also consensus to change the hours of operation to between 7:30 A.M. and 9:00 P.M.
After discussion about domestic power equipment, there was Planning Commission consensus to change
the hours of operation to end at 9:00 P.M. on weekdays.
After discussion about the hours of operation for refuse hauling, there was Planning Commission
consensus to leave the hours at between 6:00 A.M. and 8:00 P.M.
After discussion about the hours of operation for construction activities, there was Planning Commission
consensus to leave the hours at between 7:00 A.M. and 7:00 P.M. on any weekday and between 8:00
A.M. and 6:00 P.M. on any Saturday.
For the optional language, there was Planning Commission consensus to change it to basically read
Residential construction, repairs or maintenance conducted by the resident – shall be permitted between
the hours of 7:30 A.M. and 9:00 P.M. on any weekday or between the hours of 9:00 A.M. and 9:00 P.M.
on any weekend or holiday.
Commissioner Maddy asked if a fee is going to be charged for the exception. Director Nielsen responded
no.
Director Nielsen noted this will not require a public hearing because it is not a land use ordinance. The
revised draft ordinance will be placed on the July 2, 2013, Planning Commission meeting agenda for a
recommendation to Council and it would likely be on the Council’s July 22, 2013, meeting agenda.
Smithtown Crossing (What’s Next)
Director Nielsen stated when the Planning Commission developed its 2013 work program it decided to
put a discussion about what is next for northwest quadrant of Smithtown Crossing Redevelopment Study
area (Study area) on the work program. He explained the first option is for the Commission to do nothing
but wait until redevelopment of that area occurs. That is a relatively passive approach. Another option is
to refine the redevelopment incentives and mitigate some of the obstacles to redevelopment. For example,
establish criteria for the City’s participation including what to do with the City-owned property in that
area. Another option is amend senior housing provisions. From his vantage point the first thing that is
likely to happen in the area is a housing project and most likely senior housing; that is where the market
is. There is the possibility of looking at increased density for that type of project; the current density for
senior housing is ten units per acre. Staff has been told by more than one developer that ten units per acre
is not financially feasible. A distinction could be considered for independent living than for assisted living
facilities and care facilities; from his perspective that should be done sooner rather than later.
Commissioner Muehlberg asked if there is any idea of how many of those types of facilities are in the
surrounding communities or planned for them. Director Nielsen stated he does not have that information
available.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 4, 2013
Page 13 of 17
Director Nielsen stated there may be benefit in going to look at a developed site in the City of Chaska
built by Aeon to see what that type of density looks like.
Chair Geng asked how difficult it would be to find out what types of senior housing (independent living,
assisted living facilities and care facilities) other communities in the area have. He stated the City needs to
decide if it wants to be more restrictive than surrounding communities from a competitive perspective. If
the City is more restrictive that will be an impediment to having the Smithtown Crossing area
redeveloped.
Council Liaison Hotvet stated she thinks there is a need for housing for all age groups. She then stated she
thought it prudent to think about intergenerational housing; not just senior housing but a mix of housing.
Commissioner Garelick commented that at Shorewood Ponds they are having walking races next week.
Commissioner Davis commented that she does not think all seniors want to live with only old people.
Chair Geng asked if the Metropolitan (Met) Council ever provided feedback on the Smithtown Crossing
Redevelopment Study information incorporated into the City’s Comprehensive (Comp) Plan. Director
Nielsen responded the Met Council liked the mixed use idea. Nielsen stated he is not sure senior housing
would even qualify for affordable housing. Geng noted Met Council has been pushing affordable housing.
Nielsen explained the Met Council wants three units to the acre overall. The City is not even two units to
the acre overall. Even if the project were to be ten units to the acre it would have almost no impact on the
City’s overall density.
Council Liaison Hotvet stated she and Director Nielsen have talked in great length about incorporating
some type of transit piece into the development. Although it may seem as if there is not a need right now,
there are not feeder options to get to a future southwest light rail system or from the system to the South
Lake community. She noted that because of her job as the Executive Director of the Excelsior – Lake
Minnetonka Chamber of Commerce people ask her how to get out to the South Lake area. Nielsen noted
there is the one bus route.
Director Nielsen commented that a bike shop and car detailing center operating out of the former bait
shop facility it is not going to increase the need for bus traffic.
Nielsen stated marketing and promotion was effective when the first effort for senior housing was done.
He suggested marketing and promoting the Smithtown Crossing area and the incentives the City has to
offer for the redevelopment of the area.
Nielsen then stated another option is to hire a developer (through a request for proposals process) to work
with the City to actually get a project going. If a developer believes there is a market they may be
interested in doing that.
Nielsen noted the options he presented are options for what could be next for Smithtown Crossing. He
asked the Planning Commission how aggressive of an approach it wants to take.
Chair Geng stated if there is a desire to embark on a marketing promotion project or hire a developer then
redevelopment incentives would have to be refined and redevelopment obstacles would have to be
mitigated. Director Nielsen stated that would be the logical thing to do. Geng questioned if Council would
support hiring a developer. Geng stated marketing and promotion could possibly be done relatively
inexpensively.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 4, 2013
Page 14 of 17
Director Nielsen stated it’s better to have the City refine incentives and mitigate obstacles rather than
have a developer request changes to the Zoning Code. People are always suspect of that. Chair Geng
stated when a developer is involved there is a higher level of scrutiny.
Chair Geng stated he thought it prudent to have things in place before a developer comes forward. That
was part of the reason for doing the Study; to take a proactive approach. He then stated from his
perspective the Planning Commission needs to further discuss City participation and senior housing. He
noted he is not in favor of taking the passive approach of just waiting. He also noted that he has a great
deal of sympathy for what the owner of My Car Guy wants to do; to expand into the old gas station
building and have a bicycle repair and auto detailing operation. That is a laudable thing to do.
Unfortunately, that is a piecemeal approach.
Director Nielsen stated during the public hearing there was discussion about making the old gas station
building property look better. The owners had a demo permit about a year and a half ago which would
have allowed them to demo that building. That is an option – to demo the building, plant grass over the
site and then market the site. He noted that building is not in good condition.
Commissioner Davis stated there is no water or electrical in that building. The belief that the building
could be fixed up for $10,000 is not realistic. She thought it would be more like $40,000 – $50,000.
Director Nielsen stated there are differing points of view among American Legion representatives, the
owner of the bait shop property, regarding demolishing the old gas station building.
Nielsen stated staff will get life-cycle housing on a future agenda as well as discussions about possible
incentives from the City.
Commissioner Maddy asked how potential developers are finding out about the properties in the
Smithtown Crossing area. Director Nielsen stated developers pay attention to developable land. The City
receives inquiries about sites all the time. Nielsen then stated it helps to get the word out. Maddy
expressed concern about the City promoting properties it does not own. He explained developers usually
have a purchase agreement for less than the value of the property and the come before a city for major
variances. He indicated he thought the property should be rezoned with the hope that a property can entice
a developer to purchase the property because they could enhance the parcels and the seller could get a fair
market value for their property. That approach could be good for the seller, the buyer and developer, and
the City.
Director Nielsen stated the biggest concern staff has is the property owners want more than fair market
value for their properties in the Study area. He then stated he agrees with Chair Geng’s recommendation
that the Zoning Code amendments talked about in the Study should be addressed now. They could
potentially be in place before a developer approached the City.
Commissioner Maddy stated based on giving the current property owners the new property rights through
the amendments a wait and see approach may be appropriate. The City would not have to market the
Study area.
Director Nielsen clarified the marketing and promotion effort would not be about a specific site in the
Study area. It would be about the redevelopment opportunity and what incentives the City is willing to
consider.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 4, 2013
Page 15 of 17
Chair Geng stated he does not think any developer is going to be interested in any particular parcel in the
Study area. He commented that he is not sure the property owners realize that. The individual properties
do not have much redevelopment potential. The value of the properties is the land itself; not the structures
on the land.
Director Nielsen stated during the next couple of Planning Commission meetings there will be discussion
about criteria for life-cycle housing.
Chair Geng again suggested staff research what other surrounding communities are doing with density. It
may make it easier for staff and the Planning Commission to come to a consensus about density for that
area.
Director Nielsen stated the Planning Commission could do site visits to various density developments.
Chair Geng asked if there is any more to be done with public participation at this time.
Director Nielsen stated there are different ways to deal with the City-owned property in the Study area.
They range from giving it to a certain type of development for a certain type of use to selling it for the
amount the City paid for it. He noted the City is not in a position to purchase any more land in the Study
area. He stated he thought the American Legion has reasonable expectations about the value of its land.
And, the owners of the little apartment building have the most unreasonable expectation.
Chair Geng clarified he was talking about amending the Zoning Code for senior housing provisions. That
would require a public hearing. He stated he was talking about how to get the public involved before the
hearing stage. He then stated the residents who live the closest to the Study area were the ones that were
most concerned and the ones that came to the open house and Planning Commission meetings about the
Study. To him there seemed to be unease about a senior housing project.
Director Nielsen stated he thought they were concerned about the look as much as anything. Some were
concerned about the level of activity. He explained the look was addressed by limiting the height of a
structure on the first two lots in that portion of the project area to residential height restrictions; two and
one half stories or 35 feet. He stated having the density for senior housing different from that for assisted
living and care facilities would be helpful. It would also help if the entire project area could be used for
density purposes even though part of the area is commercial.
Nielsen noted that he will get the Planning Commission background information about current projects in
the surrounding communities and the densities allowed for the July 2, 2013, meeting.
Life-Cycle Housing
Director Nielsen stated that he wants to pull this item from the agenda. He has not prepared anything for
the discussion.
4. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
There were no matters from the floor presented this evening.
5. OLD BUSINESS / NEW BUSINESS
Commissioner Davis stated there had been discussion about getting together with planning
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 4, 2013
Page 16 of 17
commissioners from other South Lake area cities for additional planning and zoning training or
informational sessions. She asked what has become of that.
Director Nielsen stated he will check with the other cities about that.
In response to a question about the proposed 2014 trail segments, Director Nielsen explained during its
May 28, 2013, meeting Council authorized the survey work for the two segments. Staff will have a
proposal for feasibility studies for Council to consider during its June 24 meeting.
Chair Geng stated there is another open house for the Smithtown Road (west) sidewalk project on June 5;
a preconstruction open house. He asked if Staff wants the Planning Commissioners to attend. Director
Nielsen stated they are welcome but not expected.
Director Nielsen encouraged the Planning Commissioners to come to the ground breaking ceremonies on
June 10 for both the Smithtown Road (west) sidewalk project at 6:00 P.M. and the County Road 19
trail/sidewalk project at 6:30 P.M. He noted he will send out a reminder email.
6. DRAFT NEXT MEETING AGENDA
Chair Geng stated the next Planning Commission meeting is scheduled for July 2, 2013.
Director Nielsen stated the conditional use permit for My Car Guy may be on that agenda again.
Nielsen noted the City can probably work around bringing some of the things on the old gas station
property into conformance at this time. He clarified he does not think they should be let off the hook for
landscaping; there should be some reasonable landscape plan.
Chair Geng stated he does not think that what is being proposed is good use of that property. He noted
that he is sympathetic. He stated there may be a need for a bicycle repair operation, but questioned the
need for an auto detailing operation. He then stated allowing that will make it more difficult to move
forward with the redevelopment of that northwest quadrant of the Smithtown Crossing Redevelopment
Study area.
Director Nielsen stated also on the July 2 meeting agenda there will be another conditional use permit for
accessory space in excess of 1,200 square feet. There will also be discussion about life-cycle housing.
7. REPORTS
• Liaison to Council
None.
• SLUC
None.
• Other
None.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 4, 2013
Page 17 of 17
8. ADJOURNMENT
Davis moved, Maddy seconded, Adjourning the Planning Commission Meeting of June 4, 2013, at
9:30 P.M. Motion passed 6/0.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Christine Freeman, Recorder