PC-07-18-17
CITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY, JULY 18, 2017 7:00 P.M.
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Chair Maddy called the meeting to order at 7:03 P.M.
ROLL CALL
Present: Chair Maddy; Commissioners Bean, Riedel and Sylvester; and, Planning Director
Darling;
Absent: Commissioner Davis
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Commissioner Bean asked that Item 4.A Discussion Regarding Public Testimony be added to the agenda.
Riedel moved, Sylvester seconded, approving the agenda for July 18, 2017, as amended. Motion
passed 4/0.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES
June 20, 2017
Bean moved, Riedel seconded, approving the Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of June 20,
2017, as presented. Motion passed 4/0.
1. PUBLIC HEARING – CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR ACCESSORY SPACE OVER
1200 SQURE FEET
Applicant: Paul and Jodie Siegle
Location: 5550 March Point Drive
This application was withdrawn from the agenda after it was posted.
2. PUBLIC HEARING – CONSIDER ZONING CODE TEXT AMENDMENTS
REGARDING DOCK REGULATIONS; ACCESSORY STRUCTURES/USES; AND
DEFINITIONS
Chair Maddy opened the Public Hearing at 7:05 P.M. noting the procedures used in a Public Hearing. He
explained this evening the Planning Commission is going to consider Zoning Code text amendments.
Director Darling noted staff is proposing some amendments to the Zoning Code which pertain to
accessory structures and shoreline property regulations.
She explained the accessory structure amendments are intended to clarify the City’s intent to prohibit
accessory buildings and structures on a residential property until a principal dwelling was constructed.
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July 18, 2017
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Staff added Structure to the definition for Accessory, Building or Use to clarify that structures not
meeting the definition of building are still regulated and prohibited until there is a principal dwelling.
There are some structures that do not meet the definition of building; fences and light poles had
previously not been included. The amendment would further enhance the City’s ability to enforce existing
prohibitions.
Staff also removed language in the Code that allowed a person’s ability to connect an accessory building
to a principal structure by a covered walkway as an attempt to consider it part of the principal structure.
Allowing the covered walkway to connect two buildings was in conflict with Section 1201.03 Subd.
7.b.(2)(a) which requires homes to be constructed upon a continuous perimeter foundation.
With regard to dock regulations, Director Darling explained the intent was to clarify that docks are not
permitted without there being a principal dwelling on the lot and that the 10-foot setback applies to all
docks. Staff recommends removing some superfluous language in the Code related to construction type to
make the language clearer. Staff also proposes changing the word occupy to reside because occupy does
not exclusively mean reside. The intent of the Code is to only allow the residents of the property to have a
dock.
Commissioner Bean stated Section 1201.03 Subd. 2.d.(2) states “Accessory building shall not exceed 15
feet or one story in height.” The City has a number of homes with a bonus room above the garage. If the
garage is considered accessory space he asked if the bonus room above the garage would now be in
violation. Director Darling stated if the bonus space is attached to and part of the house there is no issue.
It would only apply to those detached.
Commissioner Riedel stated he plans on putting an addition for a garage on his home. The project
includes a bonus space behind and below it that is directly attached to the main residence. He asked if the
garage would be considered an accessory space. Director Darling stated yes. Riedel asked if a garage is
always considered an accessory space. Darling responded yes. Darling clarified if it is part of the principal
dwelling and there is living space that is connected to the principal dwelling then the 15-foot height does
not apply.
Commissioner Bean stated if he built a detached garage as an additional accessory space he asked if he
could build a loft or something else above the garage. Director Darling stated he would have to comply
with the 15-foot height restriction. That keeps the garages lower in height. The size of the loft would have
to be included in the total accessory space calculation. Bean asked what the intent is of Section 1201.03
Subd. 2.d.(2) is. Darling stated it is to keep from having a living area above the detached garage. Bean
asked if there could be a workshop or office space, for example, above the garage. Darling stated that
would not comply with the one-story restriction.
Bean then stated, for example, if he had a 7-foot peak down the middle of his garage and he had large
dormers on it giving him five foot access at the outer wall that could be a workable space.
Darling clarified the only thing changed in Section 1201.03 Subd. 2.d.(2) was structures was replaced
with buildings. That was changed because there are various height limitations for structures other than
buildings; the 15-foot height restriction only applies to buildings.
Commissioner Bean stated he thought to answer the questions he just asked he thought he would be
referred back to the Building Code. Chair Maddy stated if there is not definition of story then she would
have to go to the Building Code or a definition.
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Bean suggested adding the following to Section 1201.03 Subd. 2.d.(2) – as further defined in the section
that defines building items. That would let people know that they have to go to the Building Code to get
the clearest understanding of what is required for second story space.
Chair Maddy stated the Zoning Code defines story as “That portion of a building included between the
upper surface of any floor and the upper surface of the floor next above, except that the topmost story
shall be that portion of a building included between the upper surface of the topmost floor and the ceiling
or roof above. If the finished floor level directly above a basement or cellar or unused underfloor space is
more than six feet above grade as defined herein for more than 50% of the total perimeter or is more than
12 feet above grade as defined herein at any point, the basement, cellar or unused underfloor space shall
be considered as a story.”
Commissioner Riedel stated to him it seems clear that one story can never be multiple levels. An
accessory space could not have more than one story. That would preclude having a work space.
Chair Maddy stated that technically a person could have a 2-foot high story.
Commissioner Riedel stated if a garage is connected to the main residence he asked if the 15-foot or one
story restriction applies. Director Darling stated not if it is connected to the house. Riedel asked if the
garage would be counted as accessory space. Darling confirmed that. Riedel stated that seems unclear to
him and noted the approved/current Section 1201.03 Subd. 2.d.(1) states “An accessory structure shall be
considered an integral part of the principal building if it is connected to the principal building by a
covered passageway.” He thought that conveys that the 15-foot or one story restriction does not apply.
Darling confirmed that.
Commissioner Bean asked if Section 1201.03 Subd. 2.d.(2) states “Accessory building shall not exceed 15
feet or one story in height” only applies to a detached building. Director Darling confirmed that. Bean
suggested changing it to say “No detached accessory building shall exceed 15 feet or one story in height.”
Commissioner Riedel asked if garages count, even if they are attached and part of the house, in the total
accessory space calculation and the three building limitation for accessory buildings. Director Darling
confirmed that. Riedel stated having 1201.03 Subd. 2.d.(3) and Subd. 2.d.(4) apply to attached structures
and Subd. 2.d.(2) not seems confusing to him. Darling stated adding “No detached” to the front of Subd.
2.d.(2) would clarify things. She then stated that Subd. 2.d.(3) clearly intends to have the attached and
detached buildings in the building envelope for the property. Commissioner Bean again suggested
changing Subd. 2.d.(2) to say “No detached accessory building shall exceed 15 feet or one story in
height.”; that would make it consistent with Subd. 2.d.(1).
Commissioner Bean stated with regard to the current Section 1201.03 Subd. 2.d.(6) there are situations
where condensers are on the back of the house but technically in the side yard as far as setbacks are
concerned. Director Darling explained the Code is trying to make sure the noisier equipment is located
away from the narrow parts of the lot. Bean stated for his house it is technically in the side yard but on the
back of his home because of the way the home is positioned on the lot. It would not make sense for him to
move the condensers to the side of the house which would actually be in the back yard. He does not think
his situation is unique. Darling explained yards are based on how the lot is laid out. A front yard is the
space between the front of a house and the street frontage. If there is more than one street frontage the
front would be the smaller of the two street frontages with the rear being the opposite of the smaller
frontage. Chair Maddy noted Subd. 2.d.(6) states they cannot be in the required side yard setback; they
cannot encroach into the side yard setback but still be located in the side yard.
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July 18, 2017
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Commissioner Bean stated Section 1201.03 Subd. 14.b basically states a person cannot have a dock
without there being a principal dwelling on the lot. He referred to the previous debates about the Radisson
Road easement holders and Christmas Lake situation. He explained there are a number of easement
holders for a portion of an outlot abutting Christmas Lake. That easement gives the easement owners
access to get to a dock. There is no one living on that lot. That dock would not be allowed under the
Zoning Code. Director Darling noted there has been a dock at that lot consistently since 1910; it is already
protected under several court cases. Commissioner Riedel noted the proposed changes to Subd.14.b do
not change the intent of adopted Code. Riedel asked why the proposal is to remove “and wharves,
permanent or floating,” from the approved language. Darling stated wharves are included in the definition
for docks.
Bean stated Section 1201.03 Subd. 14.c talks about various dock dimensions and slips. But, there is no
mention about the length of a slip. Darling stated that is likely include in the Lake Minnetonka
Conservation District’s (LMCD) Code of Ordinances and that is adopted in the Shorewood Zoning Code
by reference. Chair Maddy noted the Zoning Code defines a slip as “A water dockage area
accommodating one boat.” Bean asked if there was a desire to limit the length of a slip. Maddy stated if
the LMCD code addresses dimensions he asked if it would be best to remove dimensions from
Shorewood’s Code. Commissioner Riedel stated the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (MN
DNR) also includes regulations. He noted the DNR regulations state a dock is not allowed to extend
further than required for its intended use which he thought was vague. Riedel stated Subd. 14.g states
“Unless specified otherwise in the city zoning code, all docks on all lakes shall comply with the Lake
Minnetonka Conservation District Code of Ordinances.”
Chair Maddy asked if the City can be less restrictive than the LMCD. Director Darling clarified that most
of the LMCD’s regulations are for the water side and the City’s regulations are mainly for the land side.
Maddy asked who manages the length of docks. Commissioner Bean stated there are provisions in the
LMCD Code that limit the length of docks and slips (for marinas).
Commissioner Riedel stated the DNR has rules for when a permit is required for a dock. He read what
they are. He then stated the LMCD Code states the dock length cannot exceed the width of the shoreline
nor 100 feet. It also specifies side setbacks.
There was consensus to leave the topic of slip length for a future discussion.
Commissioner Sylvester stated Section 1201.03 Subd. 2.d.(4) states “For single-family and two-family
homes, no accessory building, including attached garages, or combination of accessory buildings, shall
exceed three in number ….” She explained by adding structures (e.g.; fences, lights, docks) the limitation
of three is very limiting. Director Darling stated structures do not always meet the definition of building.
Sylvester stated that means there can only be two structures in addition to a garage. Commissioner Riedel
stated including things like fences and light poles makes the limitation problematic. Chair Maddy stated
Code’s definition of a building is “Any structure used or intended for supporting or sheltering any use or
occupancy.” Riedel asked why lights, light poles and fences were included in the definition for Accessory
Building, Structure or Use. Darling responded because they are a structure. She clarified the buildings
have the restriction of three not the structures. Sylvester stated it is confusing to her because Subd. 2.d
states “Accessory buildings, structures, uses and equipment” and she interprets that to mean everything
included under Subd. 2.d. She then stated Subd. 2.d.(4) refers to buildings only so she was no longer
confused.
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There was ensuing discussion about how to clarify the definition for Accessory Building, Structure or Use
including possibly separating the definitions along with the examples of and possibly making the number
of accessory buildings limitation dependent on lot size.
Commissioner Riedel asked if the conditional use permit (C.U.P.) process could be used to obtain
approval for having more than three accessory buildings. Director Darling stated that would depend on
how the ordinance was crafted.
Chair Maddy noted that he was content with the limit of three for accessory buildings. Commissioner
Riedel stated he was also content with the limit of three but he wanted docks to be excluded.
Commissioner Bean asked what the impact would be on the proposed Code if docks were limited to
structures and not buildings. Director Darling stated she was not sure; she would have to look at all of the
relative Code.
Director Darling clarified that all buildings are structures but not all structures are buildings.
Commissioner Riedel asked if retaining walls are structures. Director Darling clarified they are.
Commissioner Sylvester asked what the impact would be of changing occupy to reside in Section 1201.03
Subd. 14.c on someone who’s property with a dock is not their primary residence. Does reside imply a
primary residence? Director Darling stated she does not think it does. Sylvester noted she was not
concerned about the change provided it does not require someone to live their year-round. Chair Maddy
stated he preferred residing because it implies they are living there some of the time.
Seeing no one present to comment on the case, Chair Maddy opened and closed the Public Testimony
portion of the Public Hearing at 7:56 P.M.
There was ensuring discussion about what changes to what had been proposed were discussed and agreed
to.
Riedel moved, Sylvester seconded, recommending approval of the proposed ordinance amending
the Zoning Code as it pertains to accessory buildings, structures and uses and regulations
applicable to shoreline property subject to the following changes: in Section 1201.02 – change the
definition of to list examples of accessory buildings in one
Accessory Building, Structure or USE
sentence and the examples of accessory structures in another sentence; in Section 1201.03 change
Subd. 2.d.(2) to read and,
No detached accessory building shall exceed 15 feet or one story in height:
in Section 1201.03 change Subd. 2.d.(4) to exclude docks from the combination of accessory
structures limit of three. Motion passed 4/0.
Chair Maddy closed the Public Hearing at 8:06 P.M.
3. OTHER BUSINESS
A. Discussion Regarding Public Testimony
Commissioner Bean explained that during its June 20, 2017, meeting the Planning Commission discussed
a variance and conditional use permit to redevelop a nonconforming lot, a variance for the combined total
of the side yard setbacks, and a conditional use permit for fill in excess of 100 cubic yards. Part of the
discussion relied heavily on what a relative of the applicant, as a technical expert, explained. After the
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July 18, 2017
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meeting he questioned if there could have potentially been a conflict of interest on the part of the expert.
He wondered if the Commission should have relied on that expertise. Or, should the Commission have
relied on the opinion of an independent engineer. If there were to be a similar situation in the future he
asked to what degree a relative of the applicant should be able to provide technical advice.
Chair Maddy stated he did not consider the conversation to be relevant to the issue at hand because the
drainage is approved as part of the building permit review. At that time he did not think it appropriate to
prohibit the relative from commenting on the application.
Commissioner Bean clarified he was concerned about the fill portion of the application regarding what
was going to be done to address erosion of the fill on a temporary basis before all of the grading was
complete.
Director Darling stated for similar applications in the future where there is a request for additional fill or
other pertinent grading issues she could ask the City Engineer to attend the Planning Commission’s
meeting for that discussion. She explained that relative is a landscape architect. Landscape architects are
allowed under their certification to prepare grading plans; similar to what an engineer can do.
Commissioner Bean stated he assumed the landscape architect relative had a bias toward the outcome.
Director Darling noted it is the applicant’s responsibility to be able to defend and explain their proposal. It
was not out of line to ask the applicant to justify their plan.
Commissioner Bean stated had the City Engineer been at the meeting he would have directed his
questions to the Engineer. He thought asking the applicant’s relative to explain and justify what was
proposed does not ensure the same independence of looking out for the City (i.e.; the neighbors).
In response to a question from Chair Maddy, Director Darling noted the City Engineer’s comments were
included in the staff report. Some of the conditions were the Engineer’s suggestions for that application.
Commissioner Riedel stated from his vantage point sometimes the Commission strays off topic to discuss
tangential issues instead of focusing on the application.
4. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
5. REPORTS
• Liaison to Council
Director Darling stated during the July 10, 2017, Council meeting adopted a resolution granting a
conditional use permit (C.U.P.) and variance to build on a substandard lot, a variance to side-yard setback
and a C.U.P. for fill in excess of 100 cubic yards for John and Stacy Lynch for their property located at
25380 Birch Bluff Road.
Commissioner Bean asked if there was any discussion about Tonka Bay’s initiative to possibly close the
access to Birch Bluff Road and Pleasant Avenue at the Shorewood/Tonka Bay border. Director Darling
responded no and stated Council had previously elected not to have the City participate in the traffic study
for Birch Bluff Road and Pleasant Avenue.
• Other – Update on Projects Approved
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Director Darling stated that as part of the Minnetonka Country Club (MCC) development the bituminous
trail parallel to Country Club Road has been constructed.
• SLUC
Commissioner Riedel noted he attended his first Sensible Land Use Coalition (SLUC) session. The topic
was planned unit developments (PUDs). He thought the session was informative. He provided a brief
overview of what he learned at the session. There is not much basis in state law for PUDs. The use of
PUDs has been increasing. The use of PUDs varies by municipality in how they are applied. The speakers
and discussion was neither pro nor against the use of PUDs. PUDs allow planners flexibility. There is a
danger when cities try to extract too much. There is a trend in urban developments to use PUDs in order
to have smaller lot sizes.
Commissioner Bean cited a few examples in Shorewood where a PUD had been used.
• Draft Next Meeting Agenda
Director Darling stated there is an application for the redevelopment of an undersized lot and more
Zoning Code amendments slated for the August 1, 2017, Planning Commission meeting.
Commissioner Bean asked if the application for Item 3.B on the agenda was permanently withdrawn.
Director Darling stated it was not pulled for good. The applicants have not given any indication of when
they may want to resubmit their application. She clarified the 5550 Marsh Pointe Drive property is not
part of the Marsh Pointe development.
6. ADJOURNMENT
Riedel moved, Sylvester seconded, adjourning the Planning Commission Meeting of July 18, 2017,
at 8:28 P.M. Motion passed 4/0.
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED,
Christine Freeman, Recorder