PC-04-17-18
CITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY, APRIL 17, 2018 7:00 P.M.
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Chair Maddy called the meeting to order at 7:01 P.M.
ROLL CALL
Present: Chair Maddy; Commissioners Davis, Eggenberger, Gorham, and Riedel; Planning Director
Darling; and Council Liaison Sundberg
Absent: None
1. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Davis moved, Riedel seconded, approving the agenda for April 17, 2018 Planning Commission
meeting, as presented. Motion passed 5/0.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
March 6, 2018
Eggenberger moved, Riedel seconded, approving the Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of
March 6, 2018, as presented. Motion passed 5/0.
3. PUBLIC HEARINGS
Chair Maddy explained the Planning Commission is comprised of residents of the City of Shorewood who
are serving as volunteers on the Commission. The Commissioners are appointed by the City Council. The
Commission’s role is to help the City Council in determining zoning and planning issues. One of the
Commission’s responsibilities is to hold public hearings and to help develop the factual record for an
application and to make a non-binding recommendation to the City Council. The recommendation is
advisory only.
A. PUBLIC HEARING – C.U.P. for Accessory Space over 1,200 sq. ft.
Applicant: Michael Schroeder (Rep. Jack and Gretchen Norqual)
Location: 27960 Smithtown Road
Chair Maddy opened the Public Hearing at 7:03 P.M. and noted the procedures used in a Public Hearing.
Director Darling explained that Schroeder Management has requested, on behalf of Jack and Gretchen
Norqual, to construct a new single-family home on the property located at 27960 Smithtown Road. She
noted that the adjacent properties have single family homes and noted that the property owners also own
three other lots in the vicinity. A home on the property was demolished in 2009 and a small house and
garage was constructed on the site. The small house was built with the understanding that it would be
converted into a garage or storage building when the new home was constructed. There is also a small
storage building on the site that was constructed in 1930, that is proposed to remain. The proposed home
would include an attached garage space and the total accessory space including the new attached garage,
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April 17, 2018
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the detached garage, and the 1930 shed space, is over 1,200 sq. ft. She noted that in the information sent
out for the April 3, 2018 meeting, did not include a small accessory space, which accounts for a 182 sq. ft.
difference in the total from the initial staff report. She reviewed the standards for consideration of an
application of this nature. Staff has found that the application complies with the standards and is
recommending approval of the request.
Michael Schroeder, Representing Jack and Gretchen Norqual
Mr. Schroeder stated that they had worked to ensure that all the buildings on the site worked together and
complied with the City standards.
Commissioner Riedel expressed concern that the code stated that only three accessory spaces were allowed.
Director Darling stated the use for the small accessory space is for a garden room attached to the lower
level of the house.
Chair Maddy noted that that difference seems to be the opening to the outdoors, because if it opened to the
indoor area, it would be considered a closet.
Mr. Schroeder noted that the most recent plans have actually taken that garden room as an accessory space
out of the plan.
Commissioner Riedel noted that alleviates his concerns then, since there are only three accessory spaces.
He read aloud from the code and noted that it states that it is limited to three accessory spaces and does not
delineate between attached or detached.
Chair Maddy opened the Public Testimony portion of the Public Hearing at 7:17 P.M.
There being no public comment, Chair Maddy closed the Public Testimony portion of the Public Hearing
at 7:17 P.M.
Commissioner Riedel stated that both this application and the next application on the agenda have a large
area of accessory space. He stated both are vastly above the allowed 1,200 sq. ft. He stated that the City
seems to be seeing more of this and has, thus far, approved every C.U.P that has come before them allowing
larger accessory spaces. He stated that it appears that a precedent is being set and suggested that the
Planning Commission take some time to determine whether the 1,200 sq. ft. limit should be increased or
the other conditions examined more closely to see if they are still relevant.
Planning Director Darling noted that this issue was already on the list of discussion items for the Planning
Commission.
Riedel moved, Davis seconded, recommending approval of the C.U.P. for Accessory Space over 1,200
sq. ft. for Jack and Gretchen Norqual, and the property located at 27960 Smithtown Road, on the
condition that there are only three accessory areas. Motion passed 5/0.
Director Darling noted that this application will be considered by Council on April 23, 2018.
B. PUBLIC HEARING – C.U.P for Accessory Space over 1,200 sq. ft.; C.U.P. for Fill in
Excess of 100 Cu.Yds; and a Setback Variance
Applicant: TEA2 Architects (Rep. Jodie and Paul Siegle)
Location: 5550 Marsh Pointe Drive
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Chair Maddy opened the Public Hearing at 7:21 P.M. and noted the procedures used in a Public Hearing.
Director Darling explained that, on behalf of Jodie and Paul Siegle, TEA2 has requested to construct a new
single-family home at 5550 Marsh Pointe Drive. She noted that the previous homeowner had demolished
the existing home back in 2014 and the land has remained vacant since that time.
The applicant is requesting two C.U.P.s and a variance: a C.U.P. for exceeding the permitted amount of
accessory space with a 2,820 sq. ft. structure; a C.U.P. to exceed the allowed 100 Cu. Yds. of material, to
import 395 Cu. Yds. of fill; a variance for the home to be built 45 feet from a side yard setback abutting a
public street, for the construction of a porch, steps, and an eave overhang. Director Darling reviewed the
design plans.
Director Darling noted that if approved, staff recommends that large trucks and construction traffic utilize
Smithtown Road and that once construction is completed, the existing driveway on Smithtown Road be
removed and turf be installed. She noted that the applicants have met some of the variance standards better
than others, but staff realizes that the standards are open to interpretation. Staff is recommending approval
of both of the C.U.P. applications, but not the variance.
Commissioner Riedel stated that he had noticed some cattails and asked if there was any wetland
designation in this area.
Director Darling noted that to the north there is wetland and wetland buffer areas around the perimeter.
Commissioner Eggenberger asked why the City was concerned with the driveway on Smithtown Road.
Director Darling stated that staff was recommending it be taken out because it is not a practical use of the
property any longer and reducing access points on a higher order street is always a benefit to the traveling
public.
Commissioner Eggenberger stated that his other comment is in relation to the letter that was put on their
desks by Rob and Beth Reiskytl. He asked how the Marsh Pointe HOA agreement meshed with City
requirements.
Planning Director Darling noted that the properties to the north were developed as a subdivision under a
Planned Unit Development (PUD) called Marsh Pointe and are all held to the standards of the PUD, which
are enforced by the covenants that were recorded against the property and maintained by the HOA. HOAs
can have standards above and beyond what the City allows. This particular property is an adjacent property
and not part of the PUD or the HOA documents. She would like to enter the letter from Rob and Beth
Reiskytl, 5730 Marsh Pointe Drive into the minutes, for the record.
Chair Maddy asked how many zoning restrictions were relaxed for the adjacent PUD.
Planning Director Darling stated that the front setback was relaxed and the wetland buffer/setback was
increased on certain lots abutting the wetland.
Tom Van De Weghe. TEA2 Architects, representing Jodie and Paul Siegle
Mr. Van De Weghe concurred with staff that they have met all the requirements for the C.U.P.s. He stated
that his clients purchased this property with the intent to put in a home that would blend in with the area,
but the site has some unique properties, such as the grade change from south to north. He stated that he
feels the 50 ft. setback is much more restrictive than any other property in the area. He quoted from the
zoning regulations, section 1201.03, subdivision 3-D, that allows for setbacks to be changed to allow for
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homes to fit within their neighborhoods. He stated that he doesn’t feel this property can be compared
equally to the surrounding properties. He reiterated that the property owners, Jodie and Paul Siegle had a
desire to add a new home that blends in and this design does the best job possible of “filling in the missing
tooth” in this neighborhood. He explained that the 4 feet of encroachment that they are asking for is for an
open porch that is allowed in many other municipalities as part of their code. He noted that Planning
Director Darling had mentioned that this issue was self-created. He stated that he agreed that it could be
viewed as self-created, but it was due to the unique condition of the property. He reviewed other possible
alignments of the home and buildings and the problems they created and stated that they felt the current
design was the best one for the unique issues relating to this lot.
Commissioner Riedel noted that this was a rectangular lot with construction on a conforming lot. It seems
to him that the starting point would be the setbacks and the design would be driven by the setbacks that are
in place. He asked what had happened in the design phase and whether TEA2 thought that City code
approved of the open porch area or if it was designed intentionally knowing that there would be a variance
application required.
Mr. Van De Weghe stated that this is a very complicated site. They looked at a combination of the values
of the client, the amenities of the site, the ability to view the greenspace and the wetland area, and the not
so great view to the east, as well as the busy corner to the south. It was decided to have a small
encroachment and ask for a variance. He stated it was somewhat of a design decision, but, also based on
the fact that this house is already 15-20 feet further away from the street than the rest in the neighborhood.
He stated that their design plans were also in response to get the house to feel more like the existing homes
in the neighborhood.
Commissioner Riedel pointed out that to the north is wetland and to the east is the school, so to him, “fitting
into the neighborhood” is not a clear-cut statement.
Mr. Van De Weghe stated that if you drive around the entire neighborhood, along Marsh Pointe Drive all
the way to where it connects with Smithtown Road, every house is closer to the street by 15-20 feet. He
stated that even along Smithtown Road, every house is closer to the street than this house will be.
Commissioner Riedel stated that he thinks this is subjective.
Mr. Van De Weghe asked why this property was being treated differently. They have only one neighbor
that is contiguous with which they can compare themselves to and they are not being allowed to make the
comparison. He reminded the Commission that they are only asking for four feet for an open porch.
Commissioner Riedel asked if the design of the house could work without the porch.
Mr. Van De Weghe stated that he didn’t think so because a porch adds great human character and scale.
Chair Maddy asked if eaves are exempt from setback requirements.
Director Darling stated that eaves are allowed to encroach two feet into a required setback.
Chair Maddy opened the Public Testimony portion of the Public Hearing at 7:48P.M.
Nick Richardson, 5670 Marsh Pointe Drive, stated that he was here representing the HOA for Marsh Pointe.
He stated that he wanted to reinforce the letter from the Reiskytls and state that they were super pumped to
have the Siegles in the neighborhood. They are excited to finally have a home built on that corner. The
only concern that he was asked to bring forward on behalf of the HOA, was the size of the detached garage
or accessory building because it is twice the size of the regular sized space of 1,200 sq. ft. Their primary
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concern is the precedent that it may set in the area. He stated that their HOA does consider the two front
lots part of their community and its overall aesthetic, even if they are not officially part of the HOA.
Chair Maddy asked if the HOA had discussed this development specifically and if there was any input on
the 5-foot setback variance issue.
Mr. Richardson stated that the setback issue did not come up, only the concerns with the size of the detached
garage.
Director Darling noted that the letter submitted stated that they had no objections to the C.U.P. for the fill
or the setback variance.
Robert Bauman,26640 Smithtown Road, stated that he lives right across the street from the Siegle’s
property and really likes what they are trying to do. He thinks this property is very unique and won’t really
encroach on anybody. He would like to see the City let them do what they want. He understands the
concern about the size of the garage and questioned whether the issue is because it is called a garage. He
asked what the feeling would be if it was called a recreation building. He thinks this building is more for
storage of Mr. Siegle’s entertainment and not for cars coming and going or working on cars outside. He
stated that the design has windows on the side that can be seen from Smithtown Road, so he doesn’t think
there should be any objection, because if it was a house, people would say it was fine.
Tom Van De Weghe, TEA2 Architects, stated that the location of the detached garage has a little latitude
because it is not currently up against the 50-foot setback. The form of it could be changed a bit to break
down the scale, so it doesn’t necessarily feel like a long, large garage.
Chair Maddy closed the Public Testimony portion of the Public Hearing at 7:54 P.M.
Riedel moved, Gorham seconded, recommending approval of the C.U.P. for an accessory space to
exceed 1,200 sq. ft. for Jodie and Paul Siegle and the property located at 5550 Marsh Pointe Drive,
as presented. Motion passed 5/0.
Commissioner Riedel asked if there would be an application made to the watershed district since this
property is adjacent to the wetland.
Director Darling stated that they will need to provide for erosion control. She noted that the City will also
be watching to make sure that the silt fences are in place and doing their job.
Chair Maddy noted that the City Engineer had taken a look at the plans and asked if she had seen anything
of concern.
Director Darling noted that she did recommend a few general conditions, if the City approved the project.
Riedel moved, Davis seconded, recommending approval of the C.U.P for exceeding 100 Cu. Yds. of
fill, that the existing driveway on Smithtown Road be removed, and the other conditions laid out in
the staff analysis and recommendations, for Jodie and Paul Siegle and the property located at 5550
Marsh Pointe Drive, as presented. Motion passed 5/0.
Commissioner Riedel stated that he feels this is a tough sell in arguing for a variance. He feels the design
could be completed within the setbacks that include a porch.
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Commissioner Davis stated that she is also troubled by the seeming assumption that this was designed with
the thought that they could just get a variance. She stated that the City doesn’t necessarily make its decisions
based on what other cities do. That being said, she noted that she does feel a porch is a reasonable use.
Chair Maddy noted that he viewed this another way. He feels this property is somewhat of an island
sandwiched between a school, a road, and a PUD that, to him, is a practical hardship.
Director Darling noted that the code is actually written to allow variance to the front setback to stay within
the character of the area and match the other homes in the area. She stated that there is a technicality in the
code, because a side abutting a public street is not a front yard. If the Commission was looking at Marsh
Pointe Drive as the front, they could consider the property to the north, and take the average between the
required setback and the front setback shown on this home and it would conform. However, this is literally
a side setback, so a variance would be needed, and cannot be interpreted administratively.
Commissioner Eggenberger stated that he does not feel the request for a variance is unreasonable and is not
convinced that it was designed with the intent of just getting a variance. He stated that he does feel this
property is unique and thinks the overall design is very well done and does not see the request as
unreasonable.
Commissioner Gorham stated that he has not seen practical difficulty proven. He noted that he is an
architect and feels you should start with the restrictions and then move forward with your design from that
point.
Commissioner Riedel stated that he didn’t feel the issue in granting the variance was whether the design is
fine and fits into the neighborhood or not, because it clearly does. He noted that there should always be a
specific rationale for granting a variance, the most typical would be a non-conforming lot. He stated that it
is a reasonable request, but, feels it is self-created, by the design.
Chair Maddy noted that this parcel was created and in place before the nearby HOA was platted.
Commissioner Riedel noted that he agrees with all the architectural decisions to line up the house with
Marsh Pointe Drive, but, doesn’t understand the need for a five-foot encroachment.
Eggenberger made a motion recommending approval of the variance to allow a home to be 45 feet
from a side-yard setback abutting a public street for Jodie and Paul Siegle, for the property located
at 5550 Marsh Pointe Drive. Due to lack of a second, the motion died.
Riedel moved, Davis seconded, recommending denial of the request for a variance to allow a home to
be 45 feet from a side-yard setback abutting a public street, for Jodie and Paul Siegle, for the property
located at 5550 Marsh Pointe Drive. Motion passed 4/1.
Director Darling noted that this application will be considered by Council on April 23, 2018.
4. OTHER BUSINESS - None
5. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR - None
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6. REPORTS
• Liaison to Council
Council Liaison Sundberg noted that the summer party is coming up in July and more details will be sent
out soon.
• SLUC Summary
Commissioner Davis stated that she had attended and noted that it was very interesting. She noted that the
Brookview facility is stunning, but, the food was not good.
Commissioner Eggenberger stated that he had also attended and was amazed at all the planning that goes
into roadway planning. He noted that the discussion surrounding the City getting involved even when a
developer is paying for the roadways is very important, because ultimately, the City would be responsible
for the roadways.
Director Darling noted that for the next SLUC meeting topic on May 23,2018 is, “Size. Does It Matter?”,
about whether smaller lot sizes advance both public and private sector goals. She asked any Commissioners
interested in attending to let her know.
• Draft Next Meeting Agenda
Director Darling stated there are no development applications slated for the next meeting. She noted that
it might be a good idea to start discussion on the fire lane standards. She will put together some background
and advertise the meeting to collect community input.
7. ADJOURNMENT
Davis moved, Riedel seconded, adjourning the Planning Commission Meeting of April 17, 2018, at
8:17 P.M. Motion passed 5/0.