02 04 2020 Planning Commission Minutes
CITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 2020 7:00 P.M.
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Chair Maddy called the meeting to order at 7:01 P.M.
ROLL CALL
Present: Chair Maddy; Commissioners Eggenberger, Gorham, Gault and Riedel; Planning
Director Darling; and, Council Liaison Labadie
Absent: None
1. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Riedel moved, Gault seconded, approving the agenda for February 4, 2020, as presented.
Motion passed 5/0.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
January 7, 2020
Eggenberger moved, Riedel seconded, approving the Planning Commission Meeting
Minutes of January 7, 2020, as presented. Motion passed 5/0.
3. PUBLIC HEARINGS
Chair Maddy explained the Planning Commission is comprised of residents of the City of
Shorewood who are serving as volunteers on the Commission. The Commissioners are
appointed by the City Council. The Commission’s role is to help the City Council in
determining zoning and planning issues. One of the Commission’s responsibilities is to
hold public hearings and to help develop the factual record for an application and to make
a non-binding recommendation to the City Council. The recommendation is advisory only.
A. PUBLIC HEARING – MATTHEW SAYER – PRELIMINARY PLAT AND LOT
WIDTH AND AREA VARIANCES
Applicant: Sathre-Bergquist
Location: 20325 Excelsior Boulevard
Planning Director Darling noted that this application had been missing information. She noted
that it had been recently submitted to finalize their application. She noted that this item should be
ready for the public meeting in March and asked that Commission to open the public hearing and
continue it to March 17, 2020.
Chair Maddy opened the Public Hearing at 7:05 P.M. noting the procedures used in a Public
Hearing. There being no comment, Chair Maddy closed the Public Testimony portion of the Public
Hearing at 7:05 P.M.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
February 4, 2020
Page 2 of 5
Riedel moved, Gault seconded, to Continuing the Public Hearing for Preliminary Plat, Lot
Width, and Area Variances for Sathre-Bergquist at 20325 Excelsior Boulevard to March 17,
2020. Motion passed 5/0.
4. OTHER BUSINESS
A. Zoning Ordinances Amendment (Continued)
Chair Maddy explained that the Commission had begun discussing the proposed zoning code
amendments at the last meeting. He stated that there is a total of about 60 amendments being
considered. He noted that there appeared to be people in the audience here to discuss the
holiday lighting ordinance and suggested that the Commission begin with that one in order to be
respectful of everyone’s time.
Planning Director Darling gave an overview of the ongoing complaints about bright Christmas
lights placed around the community. She reviewed the suggested change to the nuisance code
affecting peace and safety. She stated that there are 20 nuisances listed in section 501 currently
and if the Commission recommends regulations on holiday lights, this may be the location to
include those regulations. She stated that staff is recommending that it be changed to say that
they cannot be illuminated between 11:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m.
Commissioner Gault stated that he would suggest changing the word “use” to “illumination”.
Commissioner Eggenberger stated that he thinks the proposed time is acceptable but would
suggest the wording be changed to say “holiday and festive” lights.
Commissioner Riedel stated that the term holiday is not defined. He asked that if somebody puts
lighting on a tree whether that constitutes holiday lighting. He stated that there are some gray
areas in the code that may need some clarification. He stated that he would also propose that
the City have a threshold of lumens below which there is no requirement that they must be turned
off at night.
Chair Maddy asked Planning Director Darling to clarify why this is in the nuisance section and not
the lighting section of the City Code.
Planning Director Darling stated that zoning regulations are not retroactive, which is why seasonal
or holiday lighting may fit into the nuisance section rather than lighting.
Commissioner Gault suggested not specifically calling out holiday lighting, but instead say that
any kind of lighting that exceeds the allowances will be considered a nuisance violation between
the hours of 11:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m.
Commissioner Riedel stated that holiday lights are temporary so none of them would be
grandfathered in and noted that he does not think there will be any lights that fall under that
category.
Commissioner Gault clarified that he feels the City already has regulations about how much light
can spill onto a neighbor’s property and feels that should apply whether it is holiday lighting or
other lighting.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
February 4, 2020
Page 3 of 5
Commissioner Riedel stated that in his opinion, as it is written seems to be a bit of an overreach.
He stated that he is in favor of this change but would like there to be some provision made for the
brightness, so the City is not forcing people with dimmer displays to turn them off every night.
Chair Maddy stated that it may simply be a case of encouraging people to use a timer for their
lights. He asked where the hours of 11:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. came from and if it was from nearby
cities.
Planning Director Darling noted that very few cities have the language written up with a turn off at
a specific hour.
Chair Maddy asked about the number of complaints received and noted that he also feels this
may be a bit of an intrusion. He asked about complaints regarding people leaving their patio or
garage lights on and whether those were received more frequently than complaints about holiday
lights.
Commissioner Riedel reiterated that as this ordinance, as written, it is saying that all holiday lights,
even if it meets the lumens and light spillage thresholds, need to be turned off between 11:00
p.m. and 7:00 a.m.
Planning Director Darling reviewed the lumens and foot candle limits for residential and
commercial properties.
Chair Maddy noted that he feels this will be very tough to enforce.
Commissioner Riedel suggested that all the lighting requirements and restrictions be cut in half
at 11:00 p.m. for temporary or holiday lighting.
Chair Maddy stated that he thinks that change would be even harder to regulate and suggested
that it be dropped entirely and let the remaining lighting regulations stand.
Commissioner Gorham stated that he wonders if this issue should be more of an education on
light conservation than the City imposing restrictions.
Commissioner Riedel stated that he doesn’t think it is necessarily the job of the City to enforce
this type of conservation measure.
Chair Maddy stated that he would open the discussion on this item to members of the audience
to give them feedback.
Mary Beth Knopeck, stated that she has lived in Shorewood for 51 years and noted that she
currently resides at Shorewood Landing but clarified that she was not here representing
Shorewood Landing. She stated that she would like to see the numbers associated with this issue
such as the number of residents affected and the police hours spent dealing with these
complaints. She stated that if there are a minimal number of residents complaining she would
suggest having them put up blinds and not wasting police and taxpayer dollars on this issue. She
stated that this is a vast issue but thinks it has a simple solution that won’t waste police time or
time in the City changing the rules.
Charles Eng, stated that he is here to show that their lights are within the limits stated in the City
Code. He stated that the person who complained is not present tonight but reiterated that their
lighting is well within the limits set by the City.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
February 4, 2020
Page 4 of 5
Nina Stark, 6000 Chaska Road, stated that she has lived in the Excelsior area for almost 90 years
and the move to Shorewood Landing has been a gift. She stated that she believes they have
been good neighbors and outlined some of the fundraising events that they have held for the fire
and police departments in addition to Toys for Tots.
Gordon Cleveland, Environmental Services Director, Shorewood Landing, stated that he doesn’t
think there is any chance that their holiday lighting will spill over beyond their parking lot lighting.
Commissioner Eggenberger asked the Shorewood Landing residents if they turned their lights off
at 11:00 p.m. or left them on all night.
Mr. Cleveland stated that Shorewood Landing used to leave their lights on all night but they turned
them off around midnight for the last week they had them installed.
Chair Maddy noted that the Commission is trying to speak broadly to an issue and not just
specifically Shorewood Landings.
The Consensus of the Commission was that subdivision 20 restricting the use of holiday
lights between 11:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m. be removed.
Commissioner Riedel suggested that the Commission revisit this issue in one year to see how
many issues arose.
The Commission discuss the proposed amendments, as presented, and proposed minor
changes, for items #45-#56. The Commission discussed the subdivision regulations #1-#4.
Chair Maddy thanked Planning Director Darling for all her work on these updates.
Planning Director Darling asked if the Commission would like one more look at all the
recommended changes from both the January and February meetings, before it is scheduled for
a Public Hearing.
There was a Consensus of the Commission to take one more look at the Zoning
amendments before scheduling a Public Hearing.
Planning Director Darling stated that she will put this on the March agenda under Other Business
for final discussion before a Public Hearing is scheduled.
5. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
6. REPORTS
• Liaison to Council
Council Liaison Labadie reported on matters considered and actions taken during Council’s
January 27, 2020, meeting (as detailed in the minutes for that meeting).
• Draft next meeting agenda
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
February 4, 2020
Page 5 of 5
Planning Director Darling noted that next month will have a fairly heavy agenda. She stated that
there will be the Preliminary Plat with variances discussed earlier tonight, one or two minor
subdivisions, a variance to redevelop a substandard lot, and a front setback variance.
• Report from Chair Maddy on Sensible Land Use Coalition
Chair Maddy gave an overview on the Sensible Land Use Coalition presentation he attended
regarding sustainability and land use planning.
7. ADJOURNMENT
Riedel moved, Gault seconded, adjourning the Planning Commission Meeting of February
4, 2020, at 8:59 P.M. Motion passed 5/0.