07 06 2021 Planning Commission Meeting Minutes
CITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY, JULY 6, 2021 7:00 P.M.
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Chair Maddy called the meeting to order at 7:03 P.M.
ROLL CALL
Present: Chair Maddy; Commissioners Eggenberger, Huskins, Gault and Riedel; Planning
Director Darling; Planning Technician Notermann; and, Council Liaison Johnson
Absent: None
1. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Riedel moved, Huskins seconded, approving the agenda for July 6, 2021, as presented.
Motion passed 5/0.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
June 1, 2021
Gault moved, Huskins seconded, approving the Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of
June 1, 2021, as presented. Motion passed 4/0/1 (Riedel abstained).
3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR - NONE
4. PUBLIC HEARINGS -
Chair Maddy explained the Planning Commission is comprised of residents of the City of
Shorewood who are serving as volunteers on the Commission. The Commissioners are
appointed by the City Council. The Commission’s role is to help the City Council in
determining zoning and planning issues. One of the Commission’s responsibilities is to
hold public hearings and to help develop the factual record for an application and to make
a non-binding recommendation to the City Council. The recommendation is advisory only.
A. PUBLIC HEARING – C.U.P. for a Fence
Applicant: Jacob Gustafson and Allison Spies
Location: 4865 Ferncroft Drive
Planning Technician Notermann noted that the applicant has applied for a C.U.P. for a fence that
is taller than the height established for shoreline fences. She stated that they would like to install
a five-foot, black vinyl chain link fence where the Code states that no fence can be taller than four
feet in the Shoreland District. She reviewed the conditions that staff is recommending.
Planning Director Darling noted that City Engineer Budde will stop out at the property later this
week in order to ensure that removing the boulder wall, as staff is recommending, will not cause
any erosion or other issues now that the rain garden has been constructed.
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Planning Technician Notermann stated that staff recommends approval with the conditions as
listed in the staff report.
Commissioner Riedel noted that the staff report lists a condition that the applicant have “plans” to
remove or relocate the boulder wall and asked if they would be required to remove or relocate the
wall.
Planning Technician Notermann clarified that, as noted by Planning Director Darling, the City
Engineer will stop out to the property and evaluate the boulder wall situation.
Commissioner Gault suggested that the condition language be changed to say that the applicant
is required to comply with the plans regarding the boulder wall, as approved by staff.
Planning Director Darling explained that the boulder wall pre-dated the subdivision, was not
shown on any documents that were submitted, and were in an area that was heavily vegetated.
Chair Maddy asked if the City knows when the boulder wall was installed.
Planning Director Darling stated that it was likely legal at the time it was installed, but putting the
property line and easements on top of the wall created the issue. She stated that if it had shown
up in the original documents, it could have been handled with the subdivision rather than having
to go back now with something like an encroachment agreement.
Commissioner Riedel asked if staff would be open to an encroachment agreement pending the
advice of the City Engineer regarding erosion.
Planning Director Darling stated that staff is open to an encroachment agreement.
Chair Maddy asked if the language of the condition should be changed to read that the applicant
will abide by staff decision on what to do with the boulder wall.
Planning Director Darling noted that staff can make a recommendation, but the Council will have
to make the decision on either an encroachment agreement or removal of the boulder wall. She
explained that she does not think the language needs to be changed at this point.
Commissioner Huskins asked staff, in their recommendation, to include the terminology ‘not
greater than’ five feet.
Commissioner Eggenberger asked why this request is for a CUP and not a variance.
Planning Director Darling stated that it is a permanent fence and read aloud a portion of the City
Code that explains that a fence that varies by height, design, or location, can be approved with a
CUP, which means that it is an allowed use in the zoning district. She stated that she assumes it
was stated this way in the Code in order to allow some flexibility.
Jacob Gustafson, 4865 Ferncroft, thanked the Planning Department staff because they have been
very helpful throughout this whole process. He stated that he and his wife, Allison Spies, are new
transplants from Michigan. He assured the Commission that their goal is to be good residents of
the City and explained that they were unaware that the boulder wall existed because it was hidden
behind vegetation.
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Commissioner Gault asked why Mr. Gustafson was requesting a five foot tall fence rather than
complying with the four foot height.
Mr. Gustafson explained that their main reason is their dogs and noted that they have two large
Tibetan Mastiffs. He noted that their standing height is about 3.5 feet, so they wanted to make
sure that they had a good, secure fencing system to ensure that they are contained in the yard.
He noted that in Michigan, they took one of their dogs on nursing home visits prior to COVID-19
and noted that he had submitted pictures to the City so they could get an idea of what the dogs
look like.
Chair Maddy opened the Public Hearing at 7:20 P.M. noting the procedures used in a Public
Hearing. There being no public comment, Chair Maddy closed the Public Hearing.
Commissioner Gault referred to the past request from resident on Country Club Lane for a higher
fence than what the City allowed. He reminded the Commission that they had recommended
denial of the past request because they felt there were other ways to control the animals and keep
them contained. He stated that he would like to see the Commission be consistent in their
recommendations.
Chair Maddy asked for specifics about the Country Club Lane request.
Commissioner Gault stated that they were asking for a 6 foot tall fence with board on board and
noted that they had also requested the fence height because of their two large dogs and the
location of the sidewalk. He stated that he sees this an opportunity for invisible fencing.
Commissioner Riedel stated that he agrees with the idea of consistency, however, he feels that
what is subjectively different in this situation is the other fencing was in a front yard and the
concern about the appearance of large fences along the road. In this case, this is a back yard
and is primarily the neighbors and the lake that would see the higher fence.
Commissioner Gault reiterated his concern that if the Commission recommends approval in this
situation, they will be inconsistent with the recent, similar situation along Country Club Lane.
Commissioner Riedel stated that this situation feels less intrusive for the neighbors because this
is a transparent fence in a backyard and not a board on board fence along the street. He noted
that he understands and agrees that this is completely subjective and inconsistent.
Chair Maddy stated that he does not like relaxing City Code due to pet size.
Commissioner Riedel stated that there are some dogs that when they get zapped with the electric
fencing get aggressive rather than learn not to cross the invisible line. He stated that invisible
fencing is not an option for every dog and noted that it is also more difficult to train an older dog.
Commissioner Huskins asked if the planned landscaping would be located above the fence. He
explained that if the shrubbery or landscaping, as it matures, hides a 4 or 5 foot fence in the
backyard, it would make very little difference to him.
Commissioner Gault reiterated that he is not thrilled with the idea that the Commission would
recommend denial for one request and approval for the other, when they are very similar requests.
Commissioner Eggenberger stated that he thinks the City has a Code on fencing to protect the
site lines of the City and granting a CUP to change that, in his opinion is not feasible. He stated
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that he doesn’t like to idea of allowing it because of the size of dogs and noted that there are other
ways to control your pets.
Commissioner Gault asked if there had been any feedback from the neighbors regarding this
request.
Planning Technician Notermann stated that the City did not receive any input from the neighbors.
Commissioner Eggenberger asked to hear more of Commissioner Riedel’s thoughts on this item.
Commissioner Riedel explained that he is the one usually advocating for consistency and to go
by the rules, however, in this case, there is a CUP process for this situation. He stated that, as
Planning Director Darling indicated, when this Code was written it was because there are cases
where it may be reasonable for a person to request something outside of the code, but within the
realm of the CUP and that process should be easier than a variance process. He stated that in
some respects, the City should expect that people would apply for the CUP. He stated that he is
on the fence because of Commissioner Gault’s explanation about the recent case, but does feel
the prior request was different, even though both requests were due to the size of dogs.
Commissioner Gault stated that when there are other ways to address a situation, he thinks they
should be applied as opposed to coming and having the Commission recommend approval when
it is not really needed. He reiterated that there are a number of other ways that this would be
resolved.
Commissioner Riedel stated that he did not disagree with this point, except for the
characterization of CUP. He gave the example of CUPs that have been granted for accessory
space exceeding 1,200 square feet. He stated that in that situation, the applicant did not need a
justification for wanting more accessory space. He stated that a CUP was put into place merely
so if someone wants it, it will not be automatically granted, but is subject to review. He stated that
he feels what Commissioner Gault has been describing was more along the lines of a variance,
and a CUP is something that should be considered more favorably from the start, by the
Commission.
Chair Maddy asked if there was a way to put conditions in the Code on this in order to make it
more clear cut and consistent.
Planning Director Darling stated that the Commission could do that and explained that a CUP is
an allowed use in any zoning district where that particular regulation would apply, subject to
conditions, either measurable or subject to allow some discretion. She stated that the
Commission can make a recommendation on whether the specific conditions listed have been
met and the subjective ones that are allowed for all CUPs. She clarified that in this situation this
is allowed by CUP so there would be no need to ask for a variance.
Commissioner Eggenberger asked what would happen when the dogs pass away, for example,
would they have to take the fence down, since is a CUP.
Planning Director Darling stated that they would not have to take down the fence and it would be
permanent.
Commissioner Gault stated that he believes the Commission was correct in their denial of the
Country Club Lane request and believes that this is essentially the same thing, just in a different
location.
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Commissioner Eggenberger explained that he was struggling with whether this is enough of a
difference between the one the Commission recommended denial on and this application.
Chair Maddy stated that he sees a large difference in the two requests. One was for a 6-foot
opaque fence along Smithtown Road and this request is for a 5-foot chain link fence in the
backyard on a quiet lake.
Commissioner Eggenberger noted that the front portion of the fence is not chain link.
Planning Technician Notermann stated that portion of the fence does not require a CUP. She
stated that portion of the 5 foot board on board fence is allowable in that location and pointed to
the areas on the exhibit where the extra regulations applied.
Commissioner Riedel clarified that there are different height requirements for the front and back
yard.
Eggenberger moved, Riedel seconded, recommending approval of the CUP request or a
fence height of not greater than five feet at 4865 Ferncroft Drive, with the conditions as
discussed; to require the applicant to acquire all necessary permits for construction of the
fence; and that the applicant be required to comply with the staff recommend regarding
how to address the existing boulder wall that crosses through the drainage and utility
easement. Motion passed 5/0.
Planning Technician Notermann stated that this should appear before the Council on July 26,
2021.
5. NEW BUSINESS
A. Minor Subdivision
Applicant: Todd Cebulla
Location: 19210 Waterford Place and 5520 Vine Hill Road
Planning Technician Notermann stated that this request is for a lot line adjustment. She noted
that there are single family homes located on each parcel which would remain after the lot line
adjustment. She stated that the applicant owns both parcels. He is asking for land to be taken
from the northern lot and added to the southerly parcel. After working with staff, the applicant has
agreed to submit new plans that reflect a new parcel size for the 5520 Vine Hill Road parcel in
order for it to be at least 20,000 square feet. She stated that the revised survey would have to be
submitted prior to the City Council meeting on July 26, 2021. Staff recommends approval with
the conditions outlined in the staff report, including the adjustment to 5520 Vine Hill Road to be at
least 20,000 square feet.
Planning Director Darling noted that just prior to the meeting, the applicant was able to give staff
an estimated layout showing the revision for both lots to meet the requirements.
Todd Cebulla, 19210 Waterford Place, expressed his appreciation to the Planning Department
and explained that he feels this is pretty straight forward and they plan to maintain the minimum
lot sizes and provide the required easements. He stated that they are looking to open up their
backyard because the home is sort of jammed against the tree line.
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Huskins moved, Gault seconded, recommending approval of the Minor Subdivision, for a
lot line adjustment at 19210 Waterford Place and 5520 Vine Hill Road, subject to the three
conditions included in the staff report. Motion passed 5/0.
Chair Maddy stated that this item would appear before the Council on July 26, 2021.
B. Variance to Side Yard Setback
Applicant: Kimberly Poe
Location: 23320 Park Street
Planning Technician Notermann stated that this request is for a variance to a side yard setback
at 23320 Park Street. She noted that the existing home was constructed in 1924 and is located
as close as six feet from the west side property line. She stated that because there is a required
10 foot setback, the house is considered to be a legally non-conforming structure. The applicant
would like to construct an addition onto the existing home that will be 7.2 feet from the side
property line. Staff recommends approval of the variance, as requested.
Commissioner Eggenberger noted that the letter from Ms. Commers expressed concern about
possible erosion and asked if the permits would cover that concern.
Planning Technician Notermann stated that the concerns about drainage and slope would be
addressed with the building permit applications.
Commissioner Huskins noted that the construction will take place on the left side of the home and
Ms. Commers is located on the right side of home.
Kimberly Poe, 23320 Park Street, explained that Ms. Commers was confused about where the
addition would be going and was concerned about the steep slope around the tree line which may
create erosion into her back yard. She noted that when she built her two car garage last year she
was required to have a surface water management plan and all of the roof water is gathered into
what used to be a summer kitchen for the apple orchard that used to be there. The addition is
150 square feet, plus the open porch across the front just to tie it all together. She explained that
maintaining the look of the home is very important to her.
Commissioner Riedel noted that he agrees that the construction will be happening on the opposite
side of Ms. Commers, but there may still need to be some other types of stormwater management
put into place, such as a silt fence.
Chair Maddy opened the meeting to public testimony on this item at 7:59 p.m. There was no
public comment.
Gault moved, Huskins seconded, to recommend approval of the variance request to the
side yard setback at 23320 Park Street, subject to the condition that the applicant be
required to acquire all necessary permits prior to construction. Motion passed 5/0.
Planning Director Darling stated that this will be on the Council agenda for July 26, 2021.
A resident spoke from the floor explaining that he was at the meeting because of a letter he
received about an easement on his property.
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Planning Director Darling stated public comment on items not on the agenda could happen as
part of Matters from the Floor and gave the Commission to option to re-open that portion of the
meeting in order to hear his comments.
Chair Maddy re-opened Matters from the Floor.
Mr. Ayman Abdelsamie, 5960 Grant Street, explained that his home was built in 1928 and he has
been doing some remodeling and fixing it up. He stated that he feels his situation is very close to
what was discussed in the prior agenda item. He explained that there is an easement on the
property on his driveway which he was told has been there forever. He stated that the City bought
the lot next to his home and they tore down the house in order to use some of the property for
drainage. He stated that he is hoping that the City could release the easement on his property
so he could have a normally shaped lot. He stated that he would just ask that the City allow this
situation to be cleaned up and taken care of so he can have access to his property and have a
normally shaped lot.
Chair Maddy stated that the Commission cannot take action tonight because they have no
information on this topic nor was in included on the agenda.
Planning Director Darling explained that it is most likely the Public Works and Engineering
Departments that will weigh in on whether or not this area can be vacated.
The Commission discussed the easement location, reason, and the hardship that it causes to the
property owner.
6. OTHER BUSINESS
A. Sign Ordinance Amendments
Applicant: City of Shorewood
Location: City-Wide
Planning Director Darling gave a brief overview of past Commission discussions surrounding
amendments to the Sign Ordinance.
The Commission discussed the revised Sign Ordinance including; signage in public right-of-way;
limitations on the clear view triangle at corners and how it is measured; owner/occupant signs;
public lands and parks; signs located within 5 feet of the property line and exceptions; referencing
the State statute; public/traffic signs; flags; and signs in windows being readable only from inside
the buildings.
Planning Director Darling noted that she can correct language so it reflects exactly what the
changes that have been discussed, such as correcting typographical errors but noted that she is
nervous about making any changes to sections that were not part of the public hearing. She
stated that perhaps she can write in the changes being discussed in her log and incorporate them
into the next housekeeping change that the Planning Commission tackles. .
Gault moved, Eggenberger seconded to recommend approval of the text amendments for
the Sign Ordinance, with the minor edits as discussed during the meeting. Motion passed
5/0.
7. REPORTS
• Liaison to Council
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Council Liaison Johnson reported on matters considered and actions taken during Council’s
recent meeting (as detailed in the minutes for that meeting).
Planning Director Darling gave a brief overview of one of the discussion topics at the meeting
regarding backyard chickens and noted that the item may be coming back to the Commission for
further discussion.
• Draft Next Meeting Agenda
Planning Director Darling stated that for the next Planning Commission meeting there will be a
variance request and may also be reviewing changes to the Comprehensive Plan that the
consultant has put together.
8. ADJOURNMENT
Riedel moved, Gault seconded, adjourning the Planning Commission Meeting of July 6,
2021, at 8:46 P.M. Motion passed 5/0.