05-03-2022 Planning Comm mtg Agenda packet
CITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY MAY 3, 2022 7:00 P.M.
A G E N D A
CALL TO ORDER ROLL CALL / (LIAISON) SCHEDULE
MADDY (Aug) ______
EGGENBERGER () _ _
HOLKER (July) ______
RIEDEL (June) ______
HUSKINS (May) ______
COUNCIL LIAISON SIAKEL (JAN-JUNE) ______
COUNCIL LIAISON GORHAM (JULY-DEC) ______
1. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
April 5, 2022
3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR
(This portion of the meeting allows members of the public the opportunity to bring up items that are
not on the agenda. Each speaker has a maximum of three minutes to present their topic. Multiple
speakers may not bring up the same points. No decisions would be made on the topic at the
meeting except that the item may be referred to staff for more information or the City Council.)
4. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A) City Code Amendments for Campaign and Non-Commercial Speech Signs
Applicant: City of Shorewood
City-wide
5. NEW BUSINESS
A) Pre-Application Sketch Review
Applicant: Lifestyle Communities
Location 24250 Smithtown Road
6. OLD BUSINESS – None
7. REPORTS
A) Council Meeting Report
B) Draft Next Meeting Agenda
8. ADJOURNMENT
CITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY, APRIL 5, 2022 7:00 P.M.
DRAFT MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Chair Maddy called the meeting to order at 7:01 P.M.
ROLL CALL
Present: Chair Maddy; Commissioners Eggenberger, Riedel, Huskins and Holker; Planning
Director Darling; Planning Technician Jason Carlson; and Council Liaison Siakel
Absent: None
1. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Commissioner Eggenberger suggested that agenda items 4 and 5 be reversed because the public
hearing item may get lengthy.
Eggenberger moved, Riedel seconded, approving the agenda for April 5, 2022, as amended
by reversing items 4 and 5. Motion passed 5/0.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
March 1, 2022
Chair Maddy noted that the minutes denoted that the meeting was held in Council Chambers;
however the meeting was held virtually.
Riedel moved, Holker seconded, approving the Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of
March 1, 2022, as amended. Motion passed 5/0.
3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR - NONE
4. NEW BUSINESS
A. Site Plan Amendment Review for Commercial Building Modification
Applicant: Mikan Homes
Location: 24275 Smithtown Road
Planning Director Darling stated that the applicant proposed to remodel the building and site to
accommodate their office and storage needs. She noted that the City does not do many of this
type of review and gave a brief explanation of what is involved in a Site Plan Review. She
explained that the applicant is proposing to re-side and re-roof the building. They will convert the
car repair area on the south side of the building to a storage area and interior parking and the
north side will become the office and conference room areas. She noted that they have plans to
remove much of the bituminous in the front of the building but leave enough for two parking
spaces. The applicant has proposed to remove much of the gravel storage area in the back but
reserve enough space for 5 additional parking spaces plus maneuvering area so they can still get
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
APRIL 5, 2022
Page 2 of 6
the trailers and vehicles inside the building in the back. She stated that they are proposing 5
parking spaces in the back, 2 in the front and 2 inside the building which is more than what code
requires. She stated that staff recommends approval with a few conditions as noted in the staff
report. She explained that Site Plan Reviews do not require notification for the adjacent property
owners or a public hearing, but the Commission could take public testimony.
Commissioner Eggenberger asked if they will need a sign permit in order to place their sign on
the building.
Planning Director Darling stated that this was correct.
Chair Maddy stated that it appears that the curb cut driveway onto County Road 19 is split
between the two buildings and asked if there was an easement where they both have access to
the full width.
Planning Director Darling stated that she will defer that answer to the applicant.
Commissioner Riedel stated that the existing building was legally non-conforming and asked if
this proposal would reduce the non-conformity.
Planning Director Darling stated that the building position would stay the same. She explained
that the non-conformity is just a small amount of the northwest corner of the building plus the
entire east side of the building because it is set too close to the east property line.
Chair Maddy noted that they are improving the impervious surface because they are substantially
reducing it.
Commissioner Holker asked where the access would be to the two indoor parking spaces.
Planning Director Darling explained that would be around the back and noted that is where the
old repair shop space was located.
Commissioner Huskins confirmed that the Commission was not here to make any comments
related to ADA requirements.
Planning Director Darling explained that is not really a land use decision as the ADA regulations
are required by the building code and they have to conform to them as part of their building permit
review. She stated that the applicant has done considerable research on the topic and the
Commission can ask questions about them if they like.
Ryan Jones, 6105 Seamans Drive, applicant, stated that related to the easement on the side of
the property for the parking, their property line goes up to the side of the computer store. He
explained that there is an existing gate that attaches to the back side of their property which is
ample width for their trucks to pull down that side. He stated that there was an engineer
recommendation on the labeled gravel portion on the front side of the building because right now,
the parking spots protrude past where the curb cut is located. He stated that the plan is just to tilt
the entrance into the front and pull those parking spots all the way so they are protected by the
curb that is there. He stated that there are 4 tall bays on the back side of the building and they
will be getting rid of two of them to allow for some pallet racks so they can store building materials.
He noted that they will be reducing the impervious surface amount from about 88% to 60% and
explained that their goal is to decrease the runoff outside of their property and increase the
aesthetic from the front side of the building. He stated that related to ADA comments, the parking
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
APRIL 5, 2022
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spot closest to the back side of the building is the ADA parking. He noted that they have standard
swing doors and they are proposing to have a wheelchair lift in the back that would bring any
client that may need it up to the office level.
Commissioner Huskins stated that he was just curious as to why it was in the rear of the building
rather than the front.
Mr. Jones explained that it is because of the way the building is situated because when you walk
in the front, there are about three steps down to the landing.
Commissioner Holker asked if there would be any vehicles in the building overnight.
Mr. Jones stated that they were not planning to. He noted that the vehicles are their personal
vehicles which are driven around regularly. He stated that there will be steadily 3 people at the
office, but they are usually not in the office all at the same time and expects there will only be 1
or 2 people at the office at one time.
Commissioner Riedel asked about the gravel area because that will be reduced quite a bit and
asked if the usage would be changing.
Mr. Jones stated that it will probably will not change outside if they don’t plan to store trailers and
boats back there. He noted that he thinks there was some concern about run off of the impervious
surfaces that were coming down into the park and into the City’s property. He stated that they
thought there was kind of a middle ground where they could remove some of the material, but still
get 4 parking spots and the trailer back up area.
Commissioner Riedel asked if they would ever be pulling an excavator in that space.
Mr. Jones stated that outside of getting the work done, they do not own one so he would not see
the need to bring one in there. He stated that the material that they would maybe bring in would
be things like doors and windows that they would load into the storage area until they were needed
for a specific job.
Chair Maddy asked about the curb cut off of 19 and asked if Mr. Jones would have access to the
full curb cut.
Mr. Jones stated that something happened when the survey was done and it looks like the curb
cut is further towards the north. He explained the actual location of the curb cut and stated that
there was plenty of space to pull in and out on 19.
Chair Maddy stated that in one of the renderings there was an American flag flying but there is no
pin spot in their electrical lighting plan for the flag and asked if they intended to fly a flag and if
they would be putting in a spotlight.
Mr. Jones stated that was a drawing that their architect had done and believes that he was trying
to ‘pretty things up’ for them.
Commissioner Huskins asked about timing for this project if it is approved.
Mr. Jones stated that their biggest hurdle to overcome is getting the windows ordered and would
guess that it will be about 5 or 6 months if they can get their materials. He noted that he expects
that they will be able to get the interior portion of the remodel started right away.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
APRIL 5, 2022
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Chair Maddy opened this item for public comment at 7:22 p.m., being there were no comments,
he closed the public comment portion of the meeting.
Eggenberger moved, Huskins seconded, recommending approval of the Site Plan
Amendment Review at 24275 Smithtown Road, with the staff recommendations. Motion
passed 5/0.
Planning Director Darling noted that this will go before the City Council on April 25, 2022.
5. PUBLIC HEARINGS
Chair Maddy explained the Planning Commission is comprised of residents of the City of
Shorewood who are serving as volunteers on the Commission. The Commissioners are
appointed by the City Council. The Commission’s role is to help the City Council in
determining zoning and planning issues. One of the Commission’s responsibilities is to
hold public hearings and to help develop the factual record for an application and to make
a non-binding recommendation to the City Council. The recommendation is advisory only.
A. PUBLIC HEARING – City Code Amendments for Campaign and Non-
Commercial Speech Sign Amendment Discussion
Applicant: City of Shorewood
Location: City-Wide
Chair Maddy confirmed that the City had only received one item of correspondence for this matter.
Planning Director Darling stated that she had only received one. She explained that this is a
proposed code amendment to amend regulations pertaining to campaign and non-commercial
speech signs. She stated that the amendments are proposed to make the language clearer and
more enforceable, consistent with State statute, move the City closer to content neutral language,
and protect City against challenges based on content specific signage language. She gave an
overview of some of the proposed ordinance amendments. She stated that the City received one
letter from Mr. Alan Yelsey, 26335 Peach Circle that had been distributed to the Commission prior
to the meeting and will be included as part of the public record for the meeting.
Chair Maddy suggested that the Commission go over the two concerns that had been raised in
the correspondence. He stated that one of the concerns regarding being allowed to post anything
they want during non-election season which he believes is covered in another section.
Planning Director Darling explained that currently, the zoning ordinance does not allow you to
post signage in any number, anywhere you may want. She stated that you are allowed to post
some signs on your property and noted that the language right now in the code is content specific
so they are proposing to add a substitution clause so for any allowed sign, you may substitute a
non-commercial speech on that sign and have it in the same locations that would otherwise be
allowed. She noted that most signs have a 5-foot setback from front property lines and a 5 foot
setback from side property lines.
Commissioner Riedel confirmed that the substitution clause only applies to signs on your own
property and not within easements. He stated that he believes the intent is for these amendments
to serve as a bridge and the intent is to revisit this ordinance following the election season.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
APRIL 5, 2022
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Planning Director Darling stated that they could not look at revisions for the entire sign code in
time for the election campaign season, so they are proposing targeted amendments specifically
for campaign and election signage.
The Commission discussed details of the substitution clause, right-of-way, setbacks, what
portions of the Code are intended to be revisited and suggested some additional language
changes to make things clearer.
Commissioner Eggenberger noted under General Provisions #11 it appears to exempt flags but
sometimes what is on a sign is also what is seen on a flag. He asked what ‘political unit’ meant.
Planning Director Darling stated that she would take that to mean a County, City, or a district.
Commissioner Eggenberger asked what is meant by the term ‘integral signs’.
Planning Director Darling explained that she was not sure what that term meant when this was
written and noted that this is a paragraph that will take some amendment when the code is
rewritten.
Commissioner Eggenberger stated that he was just trying to make sure they understood because
he feels people will try to get around it.
Chair Maddy noted that he had just checked the dictionary and it stated, ‘necessary to make a
whole, complete, essentially, or fundamental’.
Commissioner Riedel stated that he would read it as a sign that is in one piece and not presented
in several pieces.
Planning Director Darling noted that she found a definition for it within the zoning regulations
which is, ‘a sign carrying the name of a building, its date of erection, monumental citations,
commemorative tablets, and the like when carved into stone, concrete or similar material, or made
of bronze, aluminum or other permanent type of construction and made an integral part of the
structure.’
Commissioner Holker clarified that this is a portion of the Code that they are planning to revisit
post-election period.
Huskins moved, Holker seconded, recommending approval of the Draft Text Amendments
for Campaign Signs and Non-Commercial Speech Signs with the amendment under
General Provisions C, #6 to explicitly state the exceptions. Motion passed 5/0.
6. OLD BUSINESS – NONE
7. REPORTS
• Council Meeting Report
Council Liaison Siakel noted that due to spring break, the Council did not meet last week and
gave an update on the discussions and actions taken at the March 14, 2022 City Council meeting.
• Draft Next Meeting Agenda
CITY OF SHOREWOOD PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
APRIL 5, 2022
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Chair Maddy noted that he will not be in attendance at next month’s Planning Commission
meeting.
Planning Director Darling stated that there is an application for a rezoning, PUD and preliminary
plat for 9 units on the east side of Lake Como, just north of Radisson Road, but noted that she
wasn’t sure if that would be ready in time for the May meeting. She stated that she will keep the
Commission informed because they may end up cancelling the next meeting.
• Liaison to Council for June, July, and August
June – Commissioner Riedel
July – Commissioner Holker
August – Chair Maddy
8. ADJOURNMENT
Riedel moved, Huskins seconded, adjourning the Planning Commission Meeting of April
5, 2022, at 7:56 P.M. Motion passed 5/0.
2
MEETING TYPE
Worksession
City of Shorewood Council Meeting Item
Title/Subject: Potential Amendments to City Code Chapter 1201.03 Regarding Rules
for Campaign and Other Related Signage
Meeting Date: February 2, 2022
Prepared By: Marie Darling, Planning Director
Attachments: Draft ordinance amendments
At the January 24, 2022 meeting, the City Council directed staff to provide a review of any
necessary changes to the zoning ordinance related to election signage. The Council’s stated
goal was to have any changes to the ordinance completed prior to the election season.
Below staff have prepared a summary of the current statute language, current city regulations,
and staff recommendations on what is needed to improve the regulations.
State Statute:
Minnesota State Statute 211B.045 has specific language regarding noncommercial speech signs
during state election years.
During the defined time-period above, no City may limit the number or size of campaign signs.
Shorewood Code Language:
In an attempt to comply with State
Statute, Shorewood’s current sign
regulations (Section 1201.03 Subd.
11. b. (1) (d) of City Code) related to
the above include the following:
Page 2
Improvements Proposed:
1. Remove the defined term “campaign sign” from the code and replace with noncommercial
speech sign (with a new definition). Campaign sign is a term that regulates content, which
is no longer allowed in sign regulations. Noncommercial speech sign is viewed as a
content neutral label and is consistent with Supreme Court precedent.
2. Use the same time period for all elections consistent with state statute, 46 days prior to
primaries until 10 days after the election.
3. Remove the fee for removal of signs as it would be difficult to determine who would need
to be charged and staff typically does not try to assess the cost of removing the signs.
4. Keep the distance requirement from the edge of the street to protect the use of the street
and adjacent boulevard for drivers and pedestrians.
5. Add a substitution clause to allow any noncommercial speech to be substituted for other
noncommercial speech signs or commercial signs. This would allow noncommercial
speech signs in lieu of other allowed signs outside of the election time period defined in
statute.
Staff provided some optional draft language on the issues outlined above.
Next Steps
The amendments that were previously in front of the City Council at their July 26, 2021 meeting,
were continued indefinitely. To reconsider any amendments, a new public hearing would need to
be held at the Planning Commission.
To be in place prior to the next election, the city would need to have the ordinance approved and
published prior to May 1, 2022 to avoid any conflicts with the current language in the code that
indicates signs are permitted 100 days prior to any election.
As the City Council considers sign regulations, it is important to note that due to the United States
Supreme Court’s ruling in Reed v. Town of Gilbert, 135 S.Ct. 2218 (2015), a city may not restrict
expression based on its content (e.g., distinguishing between garage sale signs, wedding signs,
campaign signs), but still may regulate signs on a reasonable time, place, and manner
restrictions. Following Reed, cities have regulated the following:
Rules regulating the size of signs.
Rules regulating the locations in which signs may be placed.
Rules distinguishing between lighted and unlighted signs.
Rules distinguishing between signs with fixed messages and electronic signs with
messages that change.
Rules that distinguish between the placement of signs on private and public
property.
Rules distinguishing between the placement of signs on commercial and residential
property.
Rules distinguishing between on-premises and off-premises signs.
Rules restricting the total number of signs allowed per mile of roadway.
Special rules for government signs.
Page 3
Direction:
Staff requests direction on the following:
1. Does the City Council find amendments to the regulations are warranted at this time?
2. Are the amendments shown adequate or would the City Council find other amendments to
the sign code are needed at this time as well?
CITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MEETING COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 2022 6:00 P.M.
MINUTES
1. CONVENE CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MEETING (Held via interactive
technology/videoconferencing)
Mayor Labadie called the meeting to order at 6:01 P.M.
A. Roll Call
Present. Mayor Labadie; Councilmembers Johnson, Siakel, Gorham, and Callies; City
Attorney Shepherd; City Administrator Lerud; Planning Director Darling; and
Director of Public Works Brown;
Absent: None
B. Review Agenda
Siakel moved, Gorham seconded, approving the agenda as presented.
Roll Call Vote: Johnson, Callies, Siakel, Gorham and Labadie voted Aye. Motion passed 5/0.
2. SIGN ORDINANCE
Planning Director Darling stated that staff was directed to provide a review of any necessary
changes to the Zoning Ordinance related to election signage at the January 24, 2022 meeting.
She noted that included in the packet was language from the State statute as well as the
Shorewood City Code. She explained that what staff is hoping to accomplish is to strip down the
proposal just to the most important issues to minimize any impact that changes to the signage
may cause. She stated that staff would like to move the ordinance towards content neutrality and
have a clear time period for enforcement of election signage and add a substitution clause to
allow more opportunity for non-commercial speech signs outside of the election time period. She
reviewed the improvements that staff are proposing as outlined in the staff report. She noted that
a new public hearing would need to be held by the Planning Commission before any changes
could be adopted. She stated that in order for this to be in place prior to the election, the ordinance
would need to be approved and published prior to May 1, 2022.
Councilmember Callies stated that she had already spoken with Planning Director Darling
regarding some of her questions. She stated that overall, she agrees with what is being proposed
and thinks it is helpful to have this meeting prior to the public hearing so the Council can try to
winnow down what is being considered by the Planning Commission. She noted that in her
opinion, a distance of ten feet from the street surface is too much for many neighborhoods in the
City. She stated that she would like to see the City stick with the five foot distance that is located
elsewhere in the ordinance for non-commercial speech signs. She stated that she understands
why the City wants to have consistency for all types of elections, however, she thinks it is too
drastic of a change from the current language. She reviewed the time period between the primary
and general election for the school board and noted that 46 days for the other type of public
CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
FEBRUARY 14, 2022
Page 2 of 6
elections is not really keeping it the same for the type of elections because the time period
between the primary and general election for some, is longer than that time period. She stated
that she would like to keep it at one-hundred days as it is in the current ordinance. She asked
where signs like ‘Happy Birthday’ or ‘Black Lives Matter’ would fit into the ordinance and why the
City was doing a substitution clause.
Planning Director Darling stated that regarding the setback being too large, the City has the ability
to alter that particular setback. She stated that she thinks five feet may be too close in some
situations and gave the example of situation where there are improved shoulders adjacent to the
paved roadway, unless they alter the setback to be from the improved roadway which takes into
account shoulders. She stated that regarding the time period for signage being one-hundred
days, as long as it is clearly written and can be enforced so it does not allow one-hundred days
before every primary and every election, she thinks that would be acceptable. She explained the
substitution clause which allows any sign that is allowed in any district to be substituted, so you
can substitute out the non-commercial speech message for whatever the allowed message is on
the permitted or listed sign. She gave the example of address signage as one that is allowed at
two square feet, so most of the ‘Black Lives Matter’ or “Blue Lives Matter’ signs would fit into that
square footage allowance, so they would be allowed to have that on the property as a substitute
for the address sign.
City Attorney Shepherd gave a brief explanation of the substitution clause and noted that it is a
mechanism that helps the City address some of the issues that arise in the sign ordinance
especially in light of recent case law. He referenced the most recent Supreme Court case of Reed
v. Gilbert and noted that what needs to be considered is that there can be no content based
regulation but the City can have reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions, such as setback
from the road. He stated that there are things in the Code that still need to be worked on to ensure
that the City is complying with the content neutrality issue.
Councilmember Callies stated that she finds the substitution clause a bit confusing, not because
of the way Planning Director Darling has written it, but because it is a confusing principle. She
noted that the City could be put at risk if it did not have the ability to substitute this type of sign
and understands that it is a good thing to have and feels it is of benefit to citizens.
Councilmember Gorham stated that he was also confused by the substitution clause because
from reading it, it appeared that you could substitute a campaign sign for a ‘Black Lives Matter’
sign which means it would then be restricted by the timeframe. He stated that it looks like it refers
to a different subdivision so you have to do that bit of digging to understand it. He stated that he
would like to see the distance be closer, such as five feet. He asked about Section 3, Subd. C.(3)
where it states, ‘No portion of any sign shall be located within five feet of any property line, except
as permitted in b.(1)(d) of this subdivision.’ He stated that this says five feet, but the subdivision
it references says ten feet and noted that he felt this was a strange way to word it.
Councilmember Siakel stated that she agreed that there are a lot of situations in the City where
ten feet does not make sense. She asked if there could be a distinction between a County
roadway versus a side street. She stated that for the most part, five feet, in Shorewood, seems
to make sense and would like to see if there would be a way to differentiate between the type of
street for five feet versus ten feet. She gave the example of a sign in her yard being back ten feet
and explained that it would never be seen. She stated that she agreed with the comment made
by Councilmember Callies regarding school board election signs going from one-hundred to forty-
six days and understands why the City would want to align that number.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
FEBRUARY 14, 2022
Page 3 of 6
Mayor Labadie stated that she agrees that there are portions of the City where ten feet would
make signs not visible. She asked if Public Works Director Brown had any concerns from a Public
Works standpoint with a five foot setback versus a ten foot setback. Public Works Director Brown
stated that the City could specifying a setback from a corner because that is typically where you
get into most site distance issues. He suggested that there be something similar to the
landscaping ordinances where there is a site triangle requirement at the intersections.
Mayor Labadie stated that she does not want to get to the point where the City is out actively
policing signs and has become an enforcer. Councilmember Siakel stated that the City has not
done this in the past and noted that she was not sure why this issue has become such a big deal.
She stated that she understands updating the ordinance because of some of the things such as
the Supreme Court decision, but does not think this should be punitive. She stated that if
someone wants to be able to put up a sign in their yard, she feels they should be able to do that.
Councilmember Callies asked about the statement made earlier by Planning Director Darling
when she talked about distance from the improved roadway versus the street surface. She stated
that, to her, that sounds like the same thing. She stated that she believes that there have been
complaints in every election so she understands the City has to have something in the Code, but
in her opinion, the less said, the better.
Mayor Labadie stated that this came about because of complaints during the last election. She
explained that she would like this ordinance to get to the point where anyone can understand it
clearly. She stated that she feels the current language was not easily understood, which is where
Councilmember Callies explanation that ‘less is more’ would be beneficial.
Councilmember Siakel asked what the specific complaints were and suggested that perhaps the
discussion needed to focus on those specific areas. She stated that if the goal is to simplify it and
make it easily understood, she would say that saying something has to be five feet from an
‘improved road surface’ is probably confusing for most people.
Public Works Director Brown stated that they did check on some signs based on complaints that
were received and explained that all the complaints they received were based on setback
concerns. He stated that he thinks road surface is adequate language and is easy for anyone to
check.
Planning Director Darling stated that during the last election, the City had complaints in two
different areas of the City where signs were placed so close to the road and in such number that
the callers were frustrated by having an overwhelming amount of signs right up to the street. She
explained that in previous years the complaints were, in general, about too much signage and
noted that what the City can enforce, is setbacks.
Councilmember Johnson stated that he did not see any regulations for overall non-commercial
speech signs size. Planning Director Darling explained that during the election period, the City is
not allowed to regulate the size of signs or the number of signs. Mayor Labadie suggested that
the Council take a look a defining the edge of the road and determine how far back they would
like to go.
Councilmember Callies stated that based on the discussion, she feels the Council has consensus
to have signs be allowed five feet from the edge of pavement. Public Works Director Brown noted
CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
FEBRUARY 14, 2022
Page 4 of 6
that the City has three gravel roadways so there may need to be some provision made for those.
He stated that if the roadway is unimproved then it would be from the edge of the aggregate
surface. Councilmember Callies stated that she believes the Council also had consensus on
allowing one-hundred days for other types of elections, such as school board.
Councilmember Siakel noted that she sees Mr. Yelsey’s hand raised and stated that this may be
a good time to allow public input. Alan Yelsey, 26335 Peach Circle, stated that he agrees with
most of the statements made by Councilmember Callies. He stated that he feels the five foot
setback and allowing one-hundred days for elections other than the State mandated ones makes
sense, although he would prefer a three foot setback. He stated that he does not like the
substitution clause and does not feel it is stated clearly. He stated that the Council has not yet
addressed the concern that caused many citizens to be unhappy which was what happens to
signs outside of the election period. He stated that there is no language that clearly says you can
put up any kind of signs that you want, in your lawn, with minimal or no restrictions. He stated
that he feels this is free speech and would suggest that there be language that says for non-
commercial signs, outside of the election period, here is what you are able to do. He stated that
he believes it is illegal for the City to call out holiday signs or illumination of holiday signs and
would ask that they be treated as any other non-commercial signage and not to restrict it in any
significant way because that is also free speech. He reiterated that the substitution clause as it
is, is unfathomable and would encourage the City to create simple language. He stated that he
has raised the issue of right-of-way several times and it is still there because the City actually
prohibits signs in the right-of-way. He stated that the City allows mailboxes and plantings, but
does not allow signs and suggested that language also be corrected and make it clear that people
can put up signs in the right-of-way with a setback. He stated that theft has also been an issue
with signs and explained that he would love to see a clause that addresses that issue and makes
it a misdemeanor in the City. He stated that the City may also want to limit hate speech.
Mayor Labadie asked City Attorney Shepherd or Planning Director Darling to address Mr. Yelsey’s
comments on right-of-way, hate speech, theft, holiday signs, and the three foot setback.
Planning Director Darling explained that, in general, staff would want to preserve the right-of-way
for the purpose it was created for, which would be things like drainage projects and allow no
private improvements. She noted that mailboxes have to be allowed in order to allow for mail
delivery. She stated that improvements in the right-of-way require permits but signs are generally
not something the City would issue permits for.
Councilmember Callies stated that it appears as though non-commercial speech signs are
allowed in the right-of-way as permitted, which seems to address Mr. Yelsey’s concern. Planning
Director Darling explained that staff wrote this section to allow them during the election period,
but not at any other time. City Attorney Shepherd stated that Council may want to make a
distinction between non-commercial speech signs during the election period versus others.
Mr. Yelsey stated there is encroachment and right-of-way language included in the Code that
says you cannot do what Councilmember Callies just stated can be done. He stated that the
language conflicts and is confusing because it says nothing can be put into a right-of-way other
than a mailbox and landscaping. He stated that most people do not know how large the right-of-
way is on their property from the roadway.
City Attorney Shepherd stated that staff can look at other language that is purported to be
conflicting with the right-of-way provision in the sign ordinance because the City does not want
CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
FEBRUARY 14, 2022
Page 5 of 6
people to be confused about the restrictions or lack thereof. He stated that to address Mr.
Yelsey’s comment related to hate speech, that would be considered a content based restriction.
He stated that tonight’s discussion certainly addresses the election related provisions of the sign
ordinance but as he noted earlier, there are other provisions of the sign ordinance that need
amendment. He stated that the substitution clause is sort of a preservation clause that is
recommended by the League of Minnesota Cities and preserves the ability of the residents to
have non-commercial signs when there is otherwise conflicting regulations in the Code. He
explained that he thinks it is important to have in the Code, but noted that staff could take a look
at ‘wordsmithing’ it a bit to make it a bit more clear.
Mayor Labadie asked about the issue related to theft of signs. City Attorney Shepherd stated that
he thinks theft of signs can be prosecuted as any other theft under State law. He stated that theft
is not called out in the Code, but does not think it needs to be in order for it to be prosecuted.
Public Works Director Brown noted that the City has had incidents of theft that the SLMPD has
been involved in and noted that he believes that they were prosecuted as a misdemeanor.
Mr. Yelsey explained that he has had many signs stolen and noted that the owner of the sign is
often the political party and sometimes it is the property owner. He stated that it would be nice to
have a clause in the Code that clearly states it is a misdemeanor just to help preclude people
from doing that. Councilmember Siakel noted that most people who are stealing signs are most
likely not reading City Code. She stated that it will go back to going to the police department and
filing a complaint.
Mr. Yelsey explained that many times it is kids doing the stealing and feels their parents need to
know that this is a serious crime and not just fun and games like taking a pumpkin at Halloween.
Guy Sanschagrin, 27725 Island View Road, stated that he would like to touch on theft and
vandalism of signs. He explained that he had many signs stolen and vandalized during the last
election. He stated that he feels it is not just the ‘law’ but also what is done to communicate,
enforce, and encourage people to follow the law. He stated that he is challenged by complaint
based enforcement. He also gave the example of the Birch Bluff area and noted that he did not
think any of those properties would be able to have signs on them because the hedges are right
along the roadway even with a five foot rule. He stated that he feels Shorewood can do better
than it did during the last election. He stated that it should not just be about enforcement and the
law but should be about everyone coming together as a community to have a fair and just election.
Councilmember Siakel stated that anybody who has run for office has had some situation where
a sign has disappeared and does not think that is unique to one candidate or one election. She
stated that she would encourage people that want things to change, to start with themselves.
Mayor Labadie asked Councilmember Siakel to comment on the comment made regarding
hedges in the Birch Bluff area. Councilmember Siakel stated that she feels the comment made
by Mr. Sanschagrin is probably accurate, which is one of the reasons that she suggested five
feet from the roadway. She explained that ten feet would make it very difficult for anybody on
Birch Bluff and many other streets within the City. She noted that Mr. Yelsey brought up some
points that probably should be discussed and suggested that the Council divide this topic and just
focus on campaign signs tonight and cover the other points at a later time.
Councilmember Callies stated that she agreed that there should be two discussions and that
tonight can focus on the campaign signs in order for that to be completed prior to the election.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
FEBRUARY 14, 2022
Page 6 of 6
She stated that the Council can then deal with the other items that need to be updated at a later
date.
Councilmember Gorham stated that the misdemeanor language does not feel to him like it
belongs in City Code because it is not within their control of how it is enforced. He suggested that
perhaps it is something that is noted in the Shore Report or the newsletter that theft activity is
discouraged. Mayor Labadie stated that she also felt a letter in the Sun Sailor and/or on the Shore
Report would be a good idea to remind people that vandalism and theft of signs is a punishable
offense. She stated that she feels this may be a more appropriate route than modifying the actual
Code language. She asked about the timeline for making these changes.
Planning Director Darling stated that she feels that there will be enough time to make these
changes prior to the election season, if the public hearing is held in April.
3. ADJOURN
Siakel moved, Johnson seconded, Adjourning the City Council Work Session Meeting of
February 14, 2022, at 6:58 P.M.
Roll Call Vote: Siakel, Callies, Johnson, Gorham, and Labadie voted aye. Motion passed 5/0.
ATTEST:
Jennifer Labadie, Mayor
Sandie Thone, City Clerk
Marie Darling
From:Marie Darling
Sent:Friday, April 22, 2022 9:19 AM
To:Kara Widhalm
Subject:RE: Question on proposed Shorewood ordinance relating to signs
No, they are not subject to the time restrictions for election signage, but they will be subject to the five foot setback
from property lines and any other restrictions on the signs that they replace.
Marie Darling
Planning Director
952-960-7912
mdarling@ci.shorewood.mn.us
City of Shorewood
5755 Country Club Road
Shorewood, MN 55331
MN Data Practices Notification: Pursuant to MN Data Practices Chapter 13 all government data including email
communications is presumed to be public unless there is a specific state statute, federal law, or temporary classification
that classifies it otherwise.
www.ci.shorewood.mn.us
From: Kara Widhalm <ksflook@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 9:19 PM
To: Marie Darling <MDarling@ci.shorewood.mn.us>
Subject: Re: Question on proposed Shorewood ordinance relating to signs
Hello Ms. Darling,
Thank you for your reply and the updated information on this amendment. It is very helpful to understand the context
of this amendment, including the need to update the ordinance to conform with the supreme court decision.
Will non-commercial signs that are unrelated to elections/campaigns still be subject to the timing restrictions listed in
(1)(d)(i), which were time periods related to election days?
Thank you-- I really appreciate your help.
Kara
1
On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 9:57 AM Marie Darling <MDarling@ci.shorewood.mn.us> wrote:
Sorry for the delay in responding, I didn’t get a copy of your email.
The campaign signs amendments are not scheduled to be discussed at the City Council meeting on April 25. They will
be back at the Planning Commission on May 3 for public hearing and likely forwarded to the City Council on May 9. This
is a small targeted amendment to specifically correct conflicting language within the current campaign sign regulations
in Shorewood’s code prior to the next election and to add a substitution clause to conform to a Supreme court decision
a few years back.
Public, integral and holiday signs are defined in the zoning regulations (1201.02 of City Code). These definitions are not
changing, so they aren’t included in the ordinance amendments.
The definition of non-commercial speech is purposely broad to allow signs for many types of messages that are not
commercial in nature, including high school graduation signs, dance signs, athletic association signs, positions on social
issues, etc. Shorewood’s current regulations do not specifically allow for noncommercial speech signs. A decision in a
Supreme Court case a few years back requires all cities to allow non-commercial speech signs for any other allowed
sign in a zoning district. The City is adding a substitution clause to conform to that ruling and allow anyone to put up a
noncommercial speech sign in lieu of any other signs that are already allowed including, but not limited to, “owner
occupant signs” or “holiday signs”.
Holiday signs are not a proposed addition to the code, they are already specifically allowed. They are signs no greater
than 32 square feet that are allowed to be placed for 30 days in recognition of any federal, state or local holiday.
A copy of your letter and my response will be forwarded to the Planning Commission and the City Council. Please let
me know if you have any other questions.
Marie Darling
Planning Director
952-960-7912
mdarling@ci.shorewood.mn.us
2
City of Shorewood
5755 Country Club Road
Shorewood, MN 55331
MN Data Practices Notification: Pursuant to MN Data Practices Chapter 13 all government data including email
communications is presumed to be public unless there is a specific state statute, federal law, or temporary classification
that classifies it otherwise.
www.ci.shorewood.mn.us
From: Kara Widhalm <ksflook@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2022 6:59 PM
To: Planning <planning@ci.shorewood.mn.us>; Sandie Thone <SThone@ci.shorewood.mn.us>
Subject: Fwd: Question on proposed Shorewood ordinance relating to signs
Hello,
I never received an answer to my email below
Thank you,
Kara Widhalm
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Kara Widhalm <ksflook@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 17:30
3
Subject: Question on proposed Shorewood ordinance relating to signs
To: <sthone@ci.shorewood.mn.us>
Dear Ms. Thone,
I reviewed the redlined ordinance regarding signs that is to be discussed at the April 25 City Council meeting and have a
few questions:
1. "Public signs" and "integral signs" are not clearly defined in this ordinance; is there a definition available for these
terms?
2. The definition of "noncommercial speech" signs appears to be broad enough to include signs expressing support for
an idea, group (e.g. sports team) or individual not running for political office or related to elections. Is this correct?
3. Why would "noncommercial speech" signs that are unrelated to elections be subject to timing restrictions related to
election events?
4. What constitutes a "holiday sign"?
Thank you for your time and your assistance.
Kara Widhalm
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: City of Shorewood <jmoore@ci.shorewood.mn.us>
Date: Fri, Apr 8, 2022, 10:00
Subject: Shorewood ordinance relating to signs
To: <ksflook@gmail.com>
Monday, April 25, 7 p.m.
4