05 03 2022
CITY OF SHOREWOOD COUNCIL CHAMBERS
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
TUESDAY, MAY 3, 2022 7:00 P.M.
MINUTES
CALL TO ORDER
Vice-Chair Riedel called the meeting to order at 7:00 P.M.
ROLL CALL
Present: Vice-Chair Riedel; Commissioners Eggenberger, Huskins and Holker; and
Planning Director Darling;
Absent: Chair Maddy, Councilmember Siakel
1. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
Eggenberger moved, Huskins seconded, approving the agenda for May 3, 2022, as
presented. Motion passed 4/0.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
April 5, 2022
Huskins moved, Holker seconded, approving the Planning Commission Meeting Minutes
of April 5, 2022, as presented. Motion passed 4/0.
3. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR - NONE
4. PUBLIC HEARINGS
Vice-Chair Riedel explained the Planning Commission is comprised of residents of the
City of Shorewood who are serving as volunteers on the Commission. The Commissioners
are appointed by the City Council. The Commission’s role is to help the City Council in
determining zoning and planning issues. One of the Commission’s responsibilities is to
hold public hearings and to help develop the factual record for an application and to make
a non-binding recommendation to the City Council. The recommendation is advisory only.
A. PUBLIC HEARING – CITY CODE AMENDMENTS FOR CAMPAIGN AND NON-
COMMERCIAL SPEECH SIGNS
Applicant: City of Shorewood
Location: City-wide
Planning Director Darling explained that this is a proposal from the City for small, targeted
amendments to clarify one type of signage that is allowed under the current ordinance. She
reviewed the purposes these amendments are hoped to achieve but noted that staff has
determined that a full review of the City’s sign regulations will need to be conducted sooner than
anticipated. She stated that staff has received letters on this topic from: Alan Yelsey, 26335
nd
Peach Circle; Craig Parson, 26540 West 62 Street; Ashley Benites, 25000 Yellowstone Lane;
Carl Wilhelm, 26755 Noble Road; and John and Patricia Arnst, 5480 Teal Circle, which are now
part of the public record. She noted that the primary concerns raised in the letters were that
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people should have the right to put a sign in their yard with non-commercial messages. She
stated that staff feels this right will be more clearly permitted with the proposed amendments. She
explained that another concern was how this ordinance would be enforced and noted that with
each election season sign complaints are common and staff subsequently investigates the
complaint and explained the two courses of action available to staff. She noted that if these
amendments are approved, the City will send out information to each candidate that files for
election so they are clear about the sign rules in the City and stated that there would also be an
article in the Shore Report.
Vice-Chair Riedel expressed his appreciation to the residents who took the time to submit their
concerns to the City and noted that the Planning Commission had read all of the letters.
Vice-Chair Riedel opened the Public Hearing at 7:08 P.M. noting the procedures used in a Public
Hearing.
Pat Arnst, 5480 Teal Circle, asked if there is a distinction between how signs are treated on a City
street versus a County or State roadway and asked if that would be accommodated in the
ordinance.
Planning Director Darling stated that in general, it would not be accommodated and explained
that the right-of-way is just listed as the right-of-way. She stated that the City has relations with
both MnDOT and the County, so when there are rule infractions, they usually talk to those
jurisdictions about gaining compliance. She stated that this is handled on a case by case basis
and explained that there are two different kinds of properties that the City has jurisdiction over;
City rights-of-way and public properties, and noted that they are different.
Ms. Arnst, referenced the red-lined Section II. under Integral Signs and explained that there was
language that that states that non-commercial speech signs shall not be located in violation of
1201.03, Subd. 2H, or closer than five feet from the street. She stated that she finds this language
confusing because it could be one or the other. She asked if the Commission understood what
the traffic visibility is and what that means.
Planning Director Darling stated that those are separate regulations in the Zoning Ordinance for
traffic violations.
Ms. Arnst asked for clarification on the traffic visibility and expressed concern about the signs that
pop up at stop signs where it can already be difficult to see.
Vice-Chair Riedel stated that regarding her concern about the ‘or’ in the clause, his understanding
is that the language is meant to say that they are not allowed to violate either condition and impair
traffic visibility or be located five feet or closer to the street.
Ms. Arnst stated that makes more sense to her and explained that her last question is under
General Provisions, Section C. She stated that this section says that no signs other than public
signs and non-commercial speech signs shall be erected or temporarily placed within any street
right-of-way or on public lands or easements. She stated that she sees signs such as ‘Drive Like
You Live Here’ or the plastic outlines of the little boys out in the street. She noted that she felt
this language would refer to those types of signs and asked for clarification on this point.
Planning Director Darling explained that the reason that the term ‘governmental signs’ is coming
out is because it is not defined in the ordinance. She noted that ‘public signs’ is the defined term
so she was just cleaning up that reference.
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Ms. Arnst asked if a sign like ‘Black Lives Matter’ would fall into the political type of signage.
Planning Director Darling stated that those signs would be included in the definition of non-
commercial speech signs.
Ms. Arnst asked if a campaign sign would be designated as someone who has formally applied
for office.
Planning Director Darling confirmed that would be considered a campaign sign and explained that
was why they were proposing to remove that from the ordinance because the State statute does
not so limit those signs and calls them non-commercial speech signs.
Commissioner Huskins asked if he was understanding correctly that a sign like ‘Black Lives
Matter’ during an election period would fall under the ability to be posted no closer than five feet
from the right-of-way and then following the election, the sign would still be permitted to be
displayed, but would then need to be moved back onto private property.
Planning Director Darling confirmed that this was the correct understanding.
Vice-Chair Riedel noted that there are still restrictions for signs on private property and those
would still apply and gave a brief overview of the substitution clause.
There being no additional public comment, Vice-Chair Riedel closed the Public Hearing at 7:17
P.M.
Commissioner Huskins stated that the two issues that came to him based on the letters from the
residents had to do with the five feet and an acknowledgement that there are homeowners who
have properties that do not permit them to be able to display a sign closer than five feet because
of hedges or trees. He asked if there was any remedy for those concerns for a resident who has
a home with that configuration that would preclude them from displaying a sign. He stated that in
his opinion, if they wanted to display a sign, they could make a choice to remove the obstacles
but understands that may not be popular. He asked if there was any other solution that had
occurred to staff in this situation.
Planning Director Darling stated that she thinks residents who would not be able to display an
election sign are a pretty small minority of the residents. She explained that most would have a
driveway entrance where the sign could be displayed and reiterated that there are very few
instances where they would have absolutely no space to display a sign. She stated that these
residents may have made a choice to maximize their privacy on their property which would take
away some of their options for displaying signs.
Vice-Chair Riedel noted that the proposed changes are actually more lenient and not more strict.
Commissioner Huskins stated that the other theme that came through the letters was with regard
to enforcement. He stated that his understanding is that enforcement happens via response to a
resident complaint.
Planning Director Darling explained that Shorewood is a complaint based City which means they
do not have permanent, dedicated staff that can go throughout the community looking for Code
violations. She stated that the cost to change to this sort of permanent position is fairly steep and
noted that if there is a health and safety issue, staff is able to do something about the situation if
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they see something, but in general, it is complaint based. She noted that since the City has
moved towards communicating directly with the candidates, staff have noticed fewer violations.
Eggenberger moved, Holker seconded, recommending approval of the Proposed Text
Amendments for Campaign Signs and Non-Commercial, as discussed at the April 5, 2022
Planning Commission meeting and the three changes since the last meeting as outlined in
the staff report. Motion passed 4/0.
Planning Director Darling noted that this item will come before the City Council on May 9, 2022.
5. NEW BUSINESS
A. Pre-Application Sketch Review
Applicant: Lifestyle Communities
Location: 24250 Smithtown Road
Planning Director Darling explained that this item is for informal comments on a pre-application
sketch review of a 56-unit senior cooperative project on two parcels that straddle the City
boundary between Tonka Bay and Shorewood. She noted that the applicant has provided some
information on the housing concepts as well as some sketch level plans for Commission review.
She summarized a few of the discretionary issues staff has noted as well as things that may need
more in depth discussion including things like; whether this meets a community need and if the
location is a good fit; the need for a Comprehensive Plan amendment; and the likely need for a
Planned Unit Development.
Vice-Chair Riedel asked how this would fit in with the discussion had in the last year regarding
Met Council’s goals for density in the City.
Planning Director Darling stated that this is a development that would be providing substantially
more than the five units per acre the Met Council is asking for and also asked for a portion of the
new units to be provided in a density of eight units or greater which would also be provided
because they are looking at about twenty units to the acre, so it would satisfy some of the things
the Met Council has asked.
Commissioner Holker stated that she had not seen anything regarding cost and asked if there
was a ballpark figure on how much it would cost for someone to live in these units.
Commissioner Eggenberger asked if both cities would have to approve this plan for it to be able
to move forward.
Planning Director Darling stated that she believes that if one city turned it down it would negate
the project because it would dramatically shrink the size of the developing parcel. She explained
that the two cities would need to work together on how this moves forward.
Ben Landhauser, Lifestyle Communities, gave a brief presentation about the proposed project
and explained that this would be owner occupied housing that has shareholders in a cooperative
corporation. He stated that it may be easiest to think of it as an age qualified condominium
building that has more amenities so the emphasis ends up as more on the community as a whole.
He gave an overview of the various projects that Lifestyle Communities has worked on within the
metro area. He noted that this location is attractive to them because they want to be in a
somewhat walkable location as well as the availability of some of the things that are located
nearby.
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Vice-Chair Riedel asked how taxation would work since this is a corporation.
Mr. Landhauser explained that there are statute guidelines for how taxation works and noted that
it feels like a hybrid between commercial and a rental model.
Commissioner Holker asked if Lifestyle Communities had already spoken with the two property
owners for these parcels.
Mr. Landhauser stated that both properties are under a purchase agreement with them and gave
a little history of the parcels and how they came to be on the market. He stated that if both
communities feel that this would be a reasonable consideration, they would plan to do a PUD with
a zero lot line at the shared boundary with Tonka Bay. He stated that from a building code
perspective, they would essentially be building two structures independent to one another at the
property line which means there would be details such as fire walls, which will also make it easier
from a taxation standpoint to delineate which units were in which city.
Vice-Chair Riedel noted that appears commendable but asked if it would necessary if the cities
cooperated on building codes and on taxation.
Planning Director Darling stated that she would recommend that the two cities could work together
and then decide which city it would be in and come to agreements on revenues and cost sharing
but clarified that she could not speak for either City Council.
Commissioner Huskins stated that he would try to figure out a way to secure both properties and
go through the action of figuring out which City those properties will be in and then move forward
with the project as opposed to doing the project and having the layers of complications that Mr.
Landhauser had described between the two cities.
Mr. Landhauser stated that internally they have had these same kinds of discussions and
explained that they have had the properties under contract for about five months. He stated that
they have met with staff members from both cities and decided that their best foot forward would
be to at least align at concept, but agreed that it would be much more simple for them if they didn’t
have to deal with property lines and could treat it as one building. He stated that even if they end
up moving forward with the plans he had described with two buildings and zero lot lines, he
suspects that most people would not even realize that they would be two separate buildings.
Commissioner Huskins asked if there was a contingency agreement with both parcels that the
purchase will go forward only if this project moves forward.
Mr. Landhauser stated that was correct and noted that he felt that they have put together the best
option for these parcels, but noted that even if it is not approved, he would anticipate that some
other multi-family developer would come along with a proposal. He stated that he feels that is
very likely but reiterated that he felt that their product was the best one for the City because it is
age qualified and owner occupied and noted that he believed that use would not create traffic
concerns.
Vice-Chair Riedel noted that he appreciated that it was an age qualified project and that this may
mean less traffic concerns, however they are proposing 56 units. He noted that staff had
recommended a traffic study and asked if Mr. Landhauser could talk about traffic directly and
asked for his thoughts on visibility and the access points.
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Mr. Landhauser stated that when they talk about daily trips, he asked the Commission to keep in
mind that this counts both leaving and coming back. He stated that their product is 182 trips which
is just over 3 trips per day/unit as the average. He noted that as a comparison, villa or townhomes
would be an average 4-8 trips per day/unit and for a single family household would be somewhere
around 8-12 trips per day/unit. He explained that their proposal is to move the owners access
point to the shared driveway that goes to the public safety complex because it is further away
from the intersection and has better visibility.
Vice-Chair Riedel stated that there is currently no stop sign at that intersection for Smithtown
Road. He stated that for people making 182 trips a day that are waiting to make a left turn, could
cause traffic concerns. He explained that traffic is a perennial concern for residents and is an
issue on the arterial roads, which upsets people.
Mr. Landhauser noted that this has been clear with the joint meetings they have held with staff
from both cities and is clear that a full traffic study would vet out more of the anticipated turning
movements and where the trips would really come and go.
Commissioner Huskins shared examples from the past clean-up events in the City where that
intersection had gotten backed up.
Commissioner Holker stated that she foresees another possible traffic point being down at Cub
Foods.
Mr. Landhauser explained that when they had their traffic study completed they have also given
the corollary for anticipating current traffic patterns and include what it would be at the current
guidance for medium density.
Commissioner Holker stated that she would also want to make sure that they are looking at how
things will look when the apartment building is full and not right now when there is only 25-30%
occupancy.
Mr. Landhauser stated that because they are working with the two cities, they will be able to get
some of the anticipated traffic data because he knows that was a huge project before the
apartment building moved forward with construction.
Vice-Chair Riedel noted that another thing to consider if this goes through is that it will be a major
construction project that will take months and perhaps years to complete, so residents may be
concerned about the staging of the construction and the impact it will have on traffic.
Mr. Landhauser stated that what they have done in the past for tight sites such as this one, they
usually work with an existing property owner on where construction traffic ends up going that is in
general proximity to the site. He stated that they are expecting a 13-14 month build for this project
and explained that they will have it pretty well figured out as to how and where they will get
materials on the site.
Commissioner Holker reiterated her question about the approximate pricing for the units.
Mr. Landhauser noted that in this concept they have everything from about 1,200 square feet,
which is a 1 bedroom/den unit up to the equivalent of a 3 bedroom that they market as a 2
bedroom/den unit that is around 1,600 square feet. He stated that the minimum share payment
will be around $150,000 up to about $300,000 in equity payment. He stated that they are a limited
equity co-op so there are different tiers so people can participate at the minimum which is right
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around 35% all the way up to 95%. He stated that there is one mortgage for the entire property
which is why it is different than a condominium, so the shareholders have a proportionate share
of the one mortgage. He stated that the homes will be anywhere from the mid $300,000 range to
$600,000 based on size. He gave examples of how this works with their Golden Valley property.
Commissioner Huskins asked why they were planning 4 stories with one portion at 3 stories.
Mr. Landhauser answered that they had thought about how they could best approach this which
was to try to find a reasonable critical mass and because it is one master mortgage, it is a different
model than dealing with other types of traditional real estate. He stated that they are also
balancing things like overhead and ongoing costs to the owner to pay for the elevator, building
manager, and the part time maintenance person. He noted that they are proposing a stepped
back fourth floor so it felt more in context than just a true four story building. He stated if they had
just done 3 stories that would have meant the removal of more trees. He stated that they would
welcome any comments the Commission may have on their proposed scale and mass.
Vice-Chair Riedel stated that neighbors in single family homes do generally feel threatened by a
big building going up, however, in this case, there are nice buffers around and asked about the
closet single family neighborhood.
Mr. Landhauser noted that the closest single family homes are at the old golf course location.
Vice-Chair Riedel asked about the height of the building.
Mr. Landhauser stated that they have 12 foot floors so they will be looking at right around 45 feet
for the 4-story portion and 35 feet high for the 3-story portion of the building.
Vice-Chair Riedel noted that it looks like a very attractive building, but there is a lot of asphalt in
front and not much landscaping.
Mr. Landhauser stated that the renderings may show more than the reality will end up being in
terms of how visible that is and explained that the objective is to retain as much as possible of the
existing buffer with the retaining wall. He stated that the parking lot will end up kind of sitting into
the hillside and the stormwater management will take place underneath the parking structure with
an island in the middle asphalt, so it should not feel like a sea of asphalt shoved to the forefront
and should instead be more the idea of embedding this building into a wooded lot. He stated that
the intent will be to make it feel private and secluded for the owners, but still very attractive when
the trees they plant have not yet reached full maturity.
Commissioner Holker asked about the total elevation as compared to the apartment building so
she can get a visual idea of what they expect it to look like.
Mr. Landhauser stated that they had actually ran a drone through the area and can include greater
detail if this moves further along in the process. He stated that they will try to work in the drone
data as to how this building would relate and explained that the heights of the tallest point of the
apartment building are very comparable to the top floor of this building.
Commissioner Holker asked about the view from County Road 19 as compared to how far away
the apartment building is from the roadway. She explained that she was trying to get a sense for
how far back on the lot the mass of the building will sit.
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Mr. Landhauser stated that they are about 28 feet from the closest edge to the right-of-way at
Smithtown. He noted that they are trying to retain some of the very mature trees at the top of the
retaining wall to help create the buffer so there is not a hard edge with units being close to the
roadway. He stated that being close to the roadway is useful in a rental market, but with owners,
they like the convenience of being off of Smithtown Road, but are probably not as keen on staring
out their living room window at the roadway.
Vice-Chair Riedel asked about whether there were any green or environmental targets that they
had in mind for this project.
Mr. Landhauser stated that although they do not go through lead certification, they do go with
principals that align with that lead certification standard as a baseline. He stated that means they
are sourcing things within 500 feet of the site and use as many locally sourced materials and
general subcontractors from the area as they can. He explained that they also do electrical
vehicle charging and explained that they do a flex stall so even if you don’t move in having an
electric vehicle or a hybrid, you will have access if you end up changing vehicles in the future. He
stated that they are working through the details if someone wants it right off of their individual
parking stall. He stated that they also typically make the building ‘solar ready’ and shared the
example of what has happened at their St. Anthony building. He stated that related to the finishing
products, they go through and try to have environmentally sensitive products.
Commissioner Holker asked about the Met Council goals for affordable housing and noted that
this development will obviously not meet those goals.
Planning Director Darling stated that it will not but noted that the City is not required to actually
provide affordable housing, but they want the City to at least allow densities that would help.
Commissioner Holker asked if there had been a discussion about trying to figure out, more
actively, how the City can meet that goal, or if it had pinpointed particular areas where that might
make sense.
Planning Director Darling stated that the City recently went back through and found a number of
sites that had high density established with the new Comprehensive Plan. She reviewed the four
primary areas where they have looked more closely for higher density housing.
Commissioner Huskins asked if Public Works or Public Safety had weighed in on these proposed
plans.
Planning Director Darling stated that it is a bit early to bring the Fire Department into this
conversation. She stated that she has not released it to Public Safety, but has released it to
Public Works but has not gotten any specific comments at this point, other than concern about
the shared use of the drive
Commissioner Holker asked if Mr. Landhauser had already had preliminary conversations with
Tonka Bay.
Mr. Landhauser stated that they have not yet and explained that they are on the Tonka Bay City
Council agenda for next week.
Tim Nichols, CEO, Lifestyle Communities, stated that one thing he wanted to touch on was how
impactful cooperative housing is to both the people who move in but also to the people who sell
homes in the communities that do not want to leave the area. He stated that virtually 100% of the
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people that come into their buildings are people that didn’t want to leave the area and this product
gives them the opportunity to stay and to downsize. He stated that they think they offer a valuable
piece of the pie for housing choices available in the City.
Vice-Chair Riedel opened this item up for public testimony at 8:18 P.M. There being no public
testimony, Vice-Chair Riedel closed that portion of the meeting. He asked the Commission to
give their thoughts and opinions on this proposed project.
Commissioner Eggenberger stated that at this point he did not see anything that would keep the
Commission from recommending it to move forward. He stated that he feels this type of housing
is needed and is a great location for it.
Commissioner Holker stated that as Planning Director Darling laid out there is a need for this type
of housing and noted that she agreed with Commissioner Eggenberger that the location feels like
a good idea, but she is sensitive to the potential traffic issue that it may bring. She stated that her
one concern is for the large commercial building feel, but otherwise cannot think of any real
objections, subject to the details that still needs to come forward.
Commissioner Huskins stated that he is also not seeing anything that would make him want to
immediately say that he would not support it. He stated that he does have concern about Public
Safety and Public Works and the roadway as well as the potential traffic at this intersection. He
stated that he does keep coming back to there being shared cities as part of the project because
it will require a lot of work.
Vice-Chair Riedel stated that he feels that staff is so professional in both of the cities and so
proactive, which means it may be less of an issue than it appears, if both cities agree, in principle.
He stated that this will put a large building in place where there was not one before. He explained
that he is not necessarily opposed to that, but it is a choice that the City will get to make just once.
He stated that he keeps looking for red flags that there have been with other proposals, but he is
not seeing any that say this will be hugely problematic other than the possible issue with traffic.
He encouraged the developer to put the traffic study front and center and get it out because having
answers to those questions, including access will expedite the process with the Commission, the
Council, and the residents.
Planning Director Darling reminded the Commission that they can give informal feedback or craft
a motion with more specific recommendations for the Council.
Vice-Chair Riedel stated that he would also like to comment on the appearance that this large,
imposing building will make.
Commissioner Huskins noted that the comments and questions will be noted in the minutes and
made available to the City Council. He stated that he questioned whether, at this stage, that
would be sufficient feedback for the Council.
Planning Commissioner Darling stated that would satisfy the expectation of the Council to review
the proposal and start flushing out any issues. She stated that this item is planned to be on the
agenda for the May 23, 2022 City Council meeting.
The Commission identified a list of the potential issues that have been identified which would
include: traffic; size or scale of the building in view of the neighborhood; shared drive access on
the Public Works/Fire Station road; and the two city aspect of the project. They also noted that
if approved, it will require a Comprehensive Plan amendment; a possible boundary adjustment
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between the two cities; rezoning to a PUD to allow multiple family dwelling; PUD application with
potential flexibility for lot areas, height, materials; and a surface water plan.
Mr. Nichols stated that he was very grateful that the Commission was being so deliberate about
their feedback, because it can be a difficult process. He stated that this approach gives them a
lot of good feedback from the City and noted that a motion with this information would be well
received by their organization.
Eggenberger moved, Holker seconded, to recommend to the City Council that the City
continue discussion of the Lifestyle Communities proposal at 24250 Smithtown Road in
Shorewood and 24320 Smithtown Road in Tonka Bay with the exploration of: traffic; size
or scale of the building in view of the neighborhood; shared drive access on the Public
Works/Fire Station road; and the two city aspect of the project, as well as the future steps
outlined in the staff report.
Eggenberger amended the motion, second amended by Holker, to recommend to the City
Council that the City continue discussion of the Lifestyle Communities proposal at 24250
Smithtown Road in Shorewood and 24320 Smithtown Road in Tonka Bay and make note
that the Commission eagerly awaits further exploration of various aspects of the project,
including: traffic; size or scale of the building in view of the neighborhood; shared drive
access on the Public Works/Fire Station road; and the two city aspect of the project, as
well as the future steps outlined in the staff report. Motion carried 4/0.
6. OLD BUSINESS – NONE
7. REPORTS
A. Council Meeting Report
Planning Director Darling gave a brief overview of the discussion and actions taken at the last
City Council meeting.
B. Draft Next Meeting Agenda
Planning Director Darling stated that there may be a variance application on the next agenda.
C. ADJOURNMENT
Huskins moved, Holker seconded, adjourning the Planning Commission Meeting of May 3,
2022, at 8:40 P.M. Motion passed 4/0.