05-23-22 CC WS MinutesCITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD
CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MEETING COUNCIL CHAMBERS
MONDAY, MAY 23, 2022 6:00 P.M.
MINUTES
1. CONVENE CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MEETING
Mayor Labadie called the meeting to order at 6:00 P.M.
A. Roll Call
Present. Mayor Labadie; Councilmembers Johnson, Labadie, Gorham, and Callies; City
Attorney Shepherd; Interim City Administrator Shukle; City Clerk/HR Director
Thone; Finance Director Rigdon; Planning Director Darling; Director of Public
Works Brown; and, City Engineer Budde
Absent: Councilmember Siakel
B. Review Agenda
Johnson moved, Gorham seconded, approving the agenda as presented. Motion passed
5/0.
2. PRE -APPLICATION SKETCH FOR A SENIOR COOPERATIVE
Location: 24250 and 24320 Smithtown Road
Applicant: Lifestyle Communities
Planning Director Darling gave a brief overview of the proposal for a fifty-six unit senior
cooperative project that is being proposed on two parcels of land that straddle the City boundary
between Tonka Bay and Shorewood. She explained that decisions that staff had identified that
would need to be made if this development moves forward such as; if this use satisfies any
community needs for Shorewood seniors; if this use is appropriate for the community, is this
location a good fit for the building; and noted the need for a traffic study. She noted that the
Planning Commission reviewed this proposal at their May 3, 2022 meeting and their comments
are listed in the staff report. She stated that the Tonka Bay City Council had reviewed this
proposal at their May 10, 2022 work session, but did not have a huge amount of time to devote
to it. She stated that if the Council wanted to pursue this project in any greater detail, they way
want to explore scheduling a joint work session meeting with Tonka Bay's City Council.
Ben Landhauser, Lifestyle Communities, 4938 Lincoln Drive, Edina, gave an overview of the
history of Lifestyle Communities and their various brands. He explained that how their
cooperative living works is that it is an owner occupied housing model that is not truly real estate
because it deals with shareholders. He stated that means there is one master mortgage on the
whole building and noted that this would be an age qualified community which means one part of
a couple would need to be 62 years of age or older. He stated that there are no services provided
in their building nor do they provide any kind of care for the residents. He stated that there are
full-time and part-time employees, but they would be more traditional to apartments for things like
building management and maintenance. He explained that for this building, residents would end
up having one/fifty-sixth (1/56) ownership in the building, the amenity spaces, and the grounds.
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MAY 23, 2022
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He gave an overview of their expected demographic as being someone who already lives in the
community that is looking for single level living with no ongoing maintenance requirements. He
stated that they are attracted to these kinds of parcels because of the proximity of some goods
and services that are walkable from the site. He stated that they are trying to minimize the overall
mass of this building and noted that they have looked at building it as one building, but also as
two distinct buildings so one would be in Shorewood and the other would be located in Tonka
Bay. He stated that the buildings would share utilities but from a fire code perspective it would
basically be two structures that are at a zero lot line. He explained that they are planning to have
over 6,000 square feet in amenity space with great rooms, wellness studios, maker spaces,
entertain ment/hospitality suites, and a guest suite. He stated that the mix of units is from one
bedroom/den that is about 1,200 square feet all the way up to the equivalent of a three bedroom
unit that they refer to as a two bedroom/den which would be about 1,600 square feet. He stated
that they do a lot of underground parking and noted that every home comes with one assigned
space and based on their other cooperative buildings, they know that a ratio of 1.5 spaces per
unit is a pretty accurate number for total spaces. He stated that in some of their other buildings
they have things like electric bike charging stations, flex stall for vehicular charging, and
bike/kayak/canoe storage. He noted that they can provide the City with information on their
projected traffic volumes from similar recent projects where they have conducted full traffic
studies. He stated that there will also be personal storage space available on every level of the
building. He noted that the fourth floor steps back away from Smithtown Road about seventy feet
so most of the mass ends up tucked against the trees, so when people are driving by it will feel
like more of a three story building. He referenced the renderings they had submitted that show a
bit how the building will look along with the rooftop patio space which has been very popular in
their other buildings. He stated that they are very excited about the possibilities with this project
and introduced CEO, Tim Nichols and Development Associate, David Williams.
Councilmember Gorham stated that one of the challenges of this site is going from very low traffic
to high traffic with a fifty-six unit complex which will dramatically change the landscape. He asked
about Lifestyle's research on this kind of housing and what they see as a benefit to the community.
Mr. Landhauser stated that people only have a few rental options that are within a five minute
drive to this site. He gave the example of their project in Mound where they began pre -sales in
February which had already surpassed fifty -percent and will probably start construction later this
year. He stated that they have found a lot of desire for situations where their children have moved
to the area or this is where they have lived forever and want to stay in the community, but still
downsize. He stated that to address the traffic, if the City looked at their Comprehensive Plan,
they could probably get ten to twelve townhomes in there and noted that Truffle Hill is zoned for
commercial, which means it could potentially be a restaurant. He explained that their traffic will
probably be significantly less at peak times which will be the most impactful to the current
residents. He stated the residents in this building will by and large be retired or are at a point
where they can work at their leisure. He stated that based on their previous traffic studies their
buildings end up having five to six trips in total per day per unit and the rest is spread throughout
the day.
Councilmember Gorham noted that his questions was more in relation to demographics.
Tim Nichols, CEO, Lifestyle Communities, noted that this building, if approved, will be about their
fortieth cooperative building. He reiterated the point that the people who live in these buildings
will really be people from the community that do not `need' to move, but `want' a place that is close
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MAY 23, 2022
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to the things in their life. He stated that providing this type of space, allows other people to move
into the community buy purchasing their home.
Councilmember Gorham stated that he understands that the idea is for people to be able to stay
in the community, but expressed his disappointment with how expensive the Tonka Bay
development was. He stated that Shorewood has a diverse economic population and many
people have modest homes and noted that they could not afford to stay because of how
expensive the units are in Tonka Bay. He asked how Lifestyle Communities ensures the
affordability for people who live in modest homes.
Mr. Nichols explained that it is contractual with the cooperative so the affordability requires that
the resale of these units does not increase any higher than two percent annually. He stated that
they call it practical affordability.
Councilmember Callies stated that she is familiar with co-ops and explained that her parents had
lived in Summerhill in Eden Prairie.
Mr. Nichols explained that building was one they built many years ago.
Councilmember Callies but stated that she would not consider these `affordable' as that term is
used in the affordable housing market. She stated that when people go to sell their share, they
would not be getting equity and are basically getting only what they had put into it. She stated
that this is a just a risk of a co-op and noted that it is a different type of model. She stated that
her bigger questions are related to do with this project being split between Tonka Bay and
Shorewood and noted that it seems to be a sort of a `chicken and egg' scenario. She stated that
it brings up questions as to whose regulations will be followed, if it will be combined.
Councilmember Johnson stated that the City had contemplated that kind of thing before with
Waters in Excelsior and he thinks the cleaner result would be annexing one way or the other.
Mr. Landhauser noted that the Planning Commission had brought up a similar point and had
asked a question about whether or not it would be easier if this was just one piece of property and
one jurisdiction. He stated that the answer to that is yes but knowing that is not today's reality,
so they have at least put a proposal together that if the two cities couldn't decide which one would
relinquish their particular piece, the project could still move forward as long as they were able to
get a Planned Unit Development (PUD) done in each jurisdiction. He explained that they could
accommodate things like taxing differently on either sides of the building and have at least thought
through all of those types of things. He stated that it would be in the two cities courts to decide if
there is any part of the dialogue that wants to move to having this in just one jurisdiction versus
the other. He stated that would not be Lifestyle Communities' call to make, but they are happy
to be part of the conversation.
Councilmember Callies asked if Lifestyle Communities already owned the properties.
Mr. Landhauser explained that they have both pieces under contract and this is part of their due
diligence process.
Mayor Labadie stated that Planning Director Darling had mentioned the possibility of getting the
two cities together to discuss this project and asked how the Council felt about this possibility.
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MAY 23, 2022
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She stated that she also has concerns about splitting the project between the two cities and about
affordability.
Councilmember Johnson stated that they have mentioned that their Mound project is currently in
pre -sales and asked what the price would be for a one-bedroom/den unit.
Mr. Landhauser stated that this is a limited equity co-op, so no one can pay 100% of their share
value and they offer anywhere from 25, 35, 60 and 95 percent share contributions. He stated that
the more equity they put in the lower their monthly member fee will be. He stated that the minimum
share pricing for a one -bedroom den unit would be right around $170,000 at 35% equity level and
believes the largest would be right around $255,000 as their minimum share.
David Williams, Lifestyle Communities, explained that the running monthly payments starts
around $2,200/month.
Mr. Nichols explained that with the correlating monthly payments, they bundle together as much
of the costs as possible including real estate taxes, operating costs, cable television and high
speed internet. He stated that from a cooperative perspective there is better buying power within
the owner group of people to collectively bargain for a better price. He stated that there are a few
things that are not included in the monthly payment, such as the electricity, gas, and landline
telephone for the individual units.
Mayor Labadie asked for details on the drawings that they had showed in their presentation and
asked specifically for clarification on what the dashed lines indicated.
Mr. Landhauser explained that the dash lines are a reference for setbacks and noted that the
closest dash line is fifteen feet, then twenty feet, then twenty-five, and then thirty feet. He stated
that how they have the building modeled right now is that the setback from Smithtown Road right-
of-way is twenty-five feet and from the access to the Public Works facility is around twenty-two
feet, the north property line is forty-eight feet, and the westerly line is also about twenty-five feet.
He stated that those setbacks are things that they are willing to discuss changing, if necessary.
Mayor Labadie stated that she thinks that will definitely have to be discussed. She stated that
another big concern she has is that the underground parking stalls would access the structure by
going up the private drive. She stated that she has had a text conversation with Chief Tholen
and Chief Mackey about this issue and found out that the police uses that access to get their
squads in and out and are concerned that traffic could impact their response time. She stated
that she is also concerned about Public Works vehicles getting in and out for example during a
nighttime blizzard because they are large vehicles. She stated that she thinks this needs more
discussion and the opportunity should be given to both of the Chiefs to give input on this proposal.
Councilmember Gorham stated that in terms of massing and topography, the site is already on a
hill, and he does not want to turn this into `Mount Artessa' that everyone can see from miles away
and asked that they take a close look at how it is massed and how they navigate the topography.
Mr. Landhauser stated that they are trying to preserve as many of the trees as possible and noted
that the rendering they submitted was not perfect but explained that they would try to nestle the
main level down into the hill as far as possible. He assured the Council that they will be cognizant
of that issue as they really start playing with it.
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MAY 23, 2022
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Mr. Nichols stated that since the people moving in are owners, they are as interested in how it
looks from the outside -in as they are from the inside -out. He suggested that the Council go take
a look at some of their buildings because he thinks they have been good stewards and have
brought very good architecture, are a good neighbor, and are being the catalyst for setting up a
good opportunity for people coming in from around the area to live in the building.
Mayor Labadie stated that she also thinks that fifty-six units feels like it is too much and that the
structure is very tall for something that is already on a hill.
Planning Director Darling noted that Planning Commissioner Huskins is available if the Council
had any questions regarding the Planning Commission discussion.
Councilmember Gorham stated that he thought one point that was made in the Planning
Commission discussion was the turn onto Smithtown.
Planning Commissioner Huskins stated that he had used the analogy of the event that was held
this past weekend of people trying to navigate their way into the Public Works area and then come
back out. He stated that trying to make a left hand turn out of there became very congested, so
the Planning Commission thought some form of traffic control may be needed at that intersection.
He stated that the larger point he feels the Commission made is what was mentioned by Mayor
Labadie about the traffic of the Public Works vehicles as well as the Public Safety vehicles coming
in and out of that road. He stated that one of the other Commissioners was concerned about the
length of time for building the structure, which is around thirteen months because that will also
have an impact on the area. He stated that he believed the applicant had stated that typically in
that situation they would find a property nearby to house vehicles and materials so it wouldn't be
all on the site itself.
Mayor Labadie stated that this was all the discussion they had time for tonight, but noted that she
would anticipate that there will be a joint meeting between Tonka Bay and Shorewood to discuss
the project.
Planning Director Darling stated that she will look to get a joint meeting scheduled with the Tonka
Bay City Council in about a month.
Mayor Labadie stated that she did not think Tonka Bay had a Planning Commission, but
suggested that it would be good to extend an invitation to this meeting to Shorewood's Planning
Commission.
Councilmember Callies stated that this is beginning to sound a bit unwieldy and asked if Planning
Director Darling could have a conversation with the Tonka Bay administrator and see what they
are thinking before there is a meeting.
Planning Director Darling stated that she suspects that there will be many of those types of
conversations before the meeting is scheduled.
3. ADJOURN
Callies moved, Johnson seconded, Adjourning the City Council Work Session Meeting of
May 23, 2022, at 6:53 P.M. Motion passed 4/0.
CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
MAY 23, 2022
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ATTEST: 1�z L ;3��
Jonifqf La adie, Mayor
Sandie Thone, City Clerk