Loading...
10-28-24 CC WS MinutesCITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB ROAD CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MEETING COUNCIL CHAMBERS MONDAY, OCTOBER 28, 2024 5:45 P.M. MINUTES 1. CONVENE CITY COUNCIL WORK SESSION MEETING Mayor Labadie called the meeting to order at 5:45 P.M. A. Roll Call Present. Mayor Labadie; Councilmembers Labadie, Callies, Maddy, and Sanschagrin; City Attorney Shepherd; City Administrator Nevinski; Parks and Recreation Manager Czech; City Clerk/HR Director Thone; Planning Director Darling; Director of Public Works Morreim; City Engineer Budde; Communications Coordinator Wilson Absent: Councilmember Zerby B. Review Agenda Sanschagrin moved, Maddy seconded, approving the agenda as presented. Motion passed 4/0. 2. COUNCIL BYLAWS City Administrator Nevinski gave a brief overview of some potential bylaws that were discussed at the October 15, 2024 Work Session meeting. He stated that staff was looking for feedback and input on this draft bylaw document and explained that in putting this together their thought was to keep it as succinct as possible. Mayor Labadie asked if the Council was under any kind of time requirement for this issue. City Administrator Nevinski stated that they were not, because nothing was mandating it and the Council had lasted this long without having bylaws, but explained that he did feel it would be helpful for both the Council and staff for them to have some guiding statements. He reminded the Council that nothing would be set in stone and these documents could always be amended. Mayor Labadie stated that this would be a working document and suggested that the Council review it methodically by the roman numerals. Councilmember Maddy noted that in Ill.c. he would like to discuss the use of `should' versus `shall'. He explained that `should' would give the Council flexibility and `shall' would give them intent, and he felt that this should be `shall'. Councilmember Callies stated that she understood what he was saying, but they would be making discretionary decisions, so there really would not be a `shall' if the Council was just using their judgment. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OCTOBER 28, 2024 Page 2of9 Councilmember Sanschagrin asked if they even needed to have this item regarding decision - making and noted that there may be times when the Council would actually be looking at things in the short-term and not the long-term. Councilmember Maddy explained that from his perspective it was that the Council was not here to handle the day-to-day items but was here to do the visioning for the City for twenty years down the road and staff would be handling the issues of tomorrow. Mayor Labadie stated that she also saw it the way Councilmember Maddy had just described, but noted that the word `should' had not jumped out at her, but also understood the point that was made by Councilmember Callies. Councilmember Callies stated that she agreed with Councilmember Sanschagrin in questioning whether the Council needed something regarding decision -making because she felt decision - making duties kind of went without saying because that is what they do. Councilmember Sanschagrin asked if the duties were statutory. City Administrator Nevinski stated that he did believe that item Ill.c. had been pulled from statute and noted that the Council's decision have both short-term and long-term implications. Mayor Labadie referenced the many road projects that have been described as a `generational' decisions that would impact more than just the current property owners. She reiterated that she agreed with Councilmember Maddy that the day-to-day operational decisions were for the staff. She asked City Attorney Shepherd if he would have any issues if they chose to strike this item. City Attorney Shepherd stated that he would not have a problem with them striking this language There was consensus of the Council to strike item lll.c. Councilmember Sanschagrin asked about the enforceability of the bylaws and asked if they were intended to be guidance or rules that the Council needed to abide by. City Administrator Nevinski stated that was probably something the Council could discuss and noted that there was a statement included that says that the Council should enforce its own rules. He stated that they could choose to be very prescriptive, but was not sure that was the direction the Council would actually want to go. He gave the examples of the City of Brooklyn Park that currently has two councilmembers who have been censured, and one other in Blaine. He explained that he would personally rather not go down that road, but felt that a simple statement that says that they will hold themselves and each other accountable may be sufficient, at this point, and reminded the Council that the bylaws can always be amended. Councilmember Sanschagrin stated that he knew some of the items included were based on statute so he wanted to make sure that they did not overreach. Councilmember Callies referenced item I.a. where it states that the Council has determined that it was essential to adopt a set of bylaws. She explained that she was not sure that she would consider it `essential' and suggested that they instead say `the Council has determined that it would be beneficial to adopt a set of bylaws'. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OCTOBER 28, 2024 Page 3 of 9 Councilmember Maddy noted that at the last meeting people were yelling at the Council from their seats which was completely inappropriate so it would be nice to clear about the fact that if you are not part of the voting body, you are not part of the meeting, until the Council gives them space to talk. There was consensus of the Council to change the word `essential' to `beneficial' in item La. Councilmember Sanschagrin asked if the mayor's duties were consistent with the weak mayor system that they were under. City Administrator Nevinski stated that he believed that they were consistent based on what he has read in the some of the League of Minnesota cities materials. Councilmember Maddy asked about the emergency powers of the mayor referenced in item Ill.b. Mayor Labadie stated that one example was when she was sworn in, City Hall was locked because of Covid. She explained that former City Administrator Lerud and Brenda Pricco from City staff met her there and they swore her in/witnessed it and the next thing she did was extend the emergency declaration which kept City Hall closed and the meetings taking place on Zoom. She stated that the whole four years she has served as mayor, that was the only emergency declaration she had signed. She stated that examples from other situations in other cities would be if a river was flooding into a city building or other truly emergent things. City Administrator Nevinski stated that it would most likely be a natural disaster of some type. He stated that they could elaborate on that point or provide additional information and not muddy up the actual bylaws. Mayor Labadie stated that she liked it defined as little as possible because it will be something that they would not necessarily foresee, such as what took place with the George Floyd situation in Minneapolis. She clarified that she would be fine leaving this language vague. Councilmember Sanschagrin asked if item Ill.e. was necessary and needed to explicitly be stated because he felt it was kind of a given. Mayor Labadie stated that she liked having it included. Councilmember Maddy asked what trouble they may get into if it was there and someone was not showing up to meetings or participating. Councilmember Callies stated that she did not think they could do anything about it, if they are elected. City Administrator Nevinski explained that this would state their expectations. Councilmember Maddy stated that it seems like it should go without saying, but if they say it then they have something to back it up. Councilmember Callies suggested that they change the language to say that, 'Council members are expected to prepare and participate'. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OCTOBER 28, 2024 Page 4 of 9 There was consensus of the Council to change the language in item llLe. to state, `Council members are expected to prepare and participate in council meetings and other board meetings.' Mayor Labadie moved the discussion onto item IV. Councilmember Maddy referenced item IV.i and noted that this was another instance of should/shall issue. He stated that `City staff should' means nothing and `City staff shall' means something. There was consensus of the Council to change the word `should' to 'shall' in item lV.L Councilmember Callies stated that she did not understand item IV.f. and what the Council would be refraining from. Councilmember Maddy stated that he felt this was saying that the Council should refrain from impacting due process. City Administrator Nevinski gave the example of a land use issue that was working its way through staff and the Planning Commission and a Council member would insert themselves in that discussion inappropriately or make a statement along the lines of not supporting it or indicating that they would be voting a certain way prior to it going through its process, that could put the City at risk, because there would be a pre -determined outcome before someone was able to really make their case. He explained that this language was kind of a broad way to reference that type of situation. Councilmember Callies asked if there may be another way to summarize this and noted that she was a lawyer and she had not understood what point this item was trying to get at. Councilmember Maddy asked if this was saying that the Council should not opine on issues until they were at the dais. Councilmember Sanschagrin stated that this could be important enough to tee up every time there is a matter that falls under due process. Councilmember Callies stated that there is a tension that comes up because people want to contact the Councilmembers as their representative ahead of time and want them to say what they are going to do and how they feel about an issue, which she felt was a natural feeling on the part of a citizen. There was consensus of the Council that they were comfortable having a statement around IV.f. included in the bylaws, but it needed to be rewritten so it was more clear. Mayor Labadie referenced item IV.g. and asked City Attorney Shepherd if they needed to spell out what a conflict of interest actually would be because in reality, there were very few things that would actually be deemed a `conflict of interest'. She gave the example of a Councilmember saying that they did not want to decide on an agenda item because it involved their next -door neighbor and calling that a conflict of interest, because, in reality, that would not be a conflict of interest. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OCTOBER 28, 2024 Page 5 of 9 Councilmember Maddy stated that he agreed and in that example that individual would essentially just be keeping the peace. Mayor Labadie asked if a conflict of interest needed to be defined or if it was already defined within Statute. City Attorney Shepherd stated that he did not feel that they should define what a conflict of interest is and explained that ultimately, it was an individual, personal decision. He explained that this was the reasoning behind the admonition to contact the City Administrator about it as soon as possible. He noted that this would most likely involve also contacting him as the City Attorney so they can work through whether it is a conflict of interest or not, but reiterated that ultimately the individual Councilmember would have to make that choice. He stated that he did not believe that they would want to get so granular that they would say that someone could not abstain from a vote if it involved their neighbor because you would want to make sure that they would be able to vote in a clear way for a non -conflict sort of way, but cautioned that he would the conflict of interest the language alone. Mayor Labadie explained that she did not want future Councilmembers to say something like `this makes me feel yucky, therefore it is a conflict'. Councilmember Maddy referenced item IV.i. related to Open Meeting law and stated that he felt that they needed a caveat to say that the Council will not discuss issues with a `quorum' of the Council outside of noticed meetings. He stated that if two members of the Council want to bounce ideas off of each other, they have every right to do that, but three of them cannot. Councilmember Callies suggested that they also add a serial meeting concept. There was a consensus of the Council to change the language in item IV.i to say that a quorum of the Council must not discuss items outside of noticed meetings, and add language addressing the concept of serial meetings. Mayor Labadie moved the discussion onto item V. Councilmember Maddy referenced V.b asked if the seating referred to stage right or house right, for example, and suggested that they clean up that language so it is clear. Councilmember Sanschagrin stated that the use of the word `junior' implied hierarchy and suggested that they change it to `based on seniority'. Councilmember Callies stated that could possibly change it to `newly elected'. There was a consensus of the Council to change the language for Vb. to state that members would be seated based on seniority in a specific location. Councilmember Maddy referenced item V.f. and suggested that they insert the word `typically' because there are always issues with holidays and things and did not think they should use the word `shall'. There was a consensus of the Council to insert the word `typically' into item V.f. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OCTOBER 28, 2024 Page 6 of 9 Mayor Labadie referenced item V.d. and the use of the word `members'. City Administrator Nevinski stated that he had used the word `members' to refer to the Council. Councilmember Maddy asked how the Council would be allowed to attend a meeting virtually. City Administrator Nevinski explained that they would need to be in a public location that was accessible to the public. He stated that they can attend in a private location under the advisement of a medical professional up to three times in a calendar year. Mayor Labadie confirmed that if the Council participated in meetings virtually they would be able to vote it if was noticed properly. City Administrator Nevinski stated that they could vote as long as the City put the address of their location within the meeting notice. Councilmember Sanschagrin asked if you could vote from a private location if you were sick. City Attorney Shepherd explained that they could, up to three times a year. Councilmember Callies suggested that the language be amended a bit. Councilmember Maddy suggested that they simply cite State law. City Attorney Shepherd agreed that they will just cite the Open Meeting Law because they do not want to be subscriptive but to just follow the Statute. Councilmember Callies stated that she felt the second sentence was strange and would really only apply in a situation where someone was on vacation and not sick. City Attorney Shepherd suggested that they add language to that sentence that clarifies it would apply for non -medical absences. Councilmember Sanschagrin noted item V.f. and asked if they should include possible meetings on Tuesdays. City Administrator Nevinski stated that at the beginning of the year, they look at the calendar and set the meeting schedule for the coming year, so the Tuesday meetings would be included. He noted that typically their meetings would be on Mondays unless the Council wanted to change the meeting night. He stated that he thinks using the word `typically', as suggested by Councilmember Maddy would address that issue. Councilmember Maddy noted that he liked the `for consideration' box listed next to item V.g. because he hated putting people on the spot with the expectation that they have to speak if there are not any updates. He stated that he felt the box information basically said that they should only talk to the Council if they have something to say. Councilmember Sanschagrin stated that he felt that would be more efficient and straightforward. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OCTOBER 28, 2024 Page 7 of 9 Councilmember Callies stated that she liked having them listed, but if there was nothing there, she did not think that the Council had to announce that there was nothing there and should just move on to the next actual item. There was consensus of the Council to keep the current structure for item V.g., but to skip over them if there was no actual agenda item under those headings. Councilmember Callies referenced item V.h. and stated that she was okay with a shortened Roberts Rules of Order, but having the speaker say `Mayor' and `Councilmember' every time they spoke seemed unnecessary to her. She noted that the Rules also stated that the members would have to seek the permission of the presider to be able to say something to a fellow Councilmember. She explained that she felt that they would be able to move along more quickly if they did not have to say `Mayor' or `Councilmember' every time they wanted to say something and should be able to just answer a question. She stated that she would like to see it be less formal. Councilmember Maddy stated that he would agree that this format seems like it is extra work and the City is usually pretty laid back and would agree that approach does seem overly formal. Mayor Labadie stated that she has no problem with that, but as long as she is the Mayor, she would act with formality towards others. She explained that her first few meetings were very hard and very disrespectful and noted that it has taken a long time to get the cordialness that they currently have with just an occasional outburst which used to happen more frequently. She explained that she felt that the Mayor having formality towards staff, Councilmembers, and the audience helped even though she understands that there are some members of the general public who have not liked the formality. Councilmember Maddy stated that he had many meetings on the Planning Commission that completely went off the rails. He stated that if they can keep the focus on the chair managing who speaks, as long as it was done equitably, he felt it made more sense. Councilmember Callies stated that she felt that part made sense, but the Rules seem to say that Councilmembers must seek recognition from the presider in order to speak. Councilmember Maddy stated that if there happened to be a bad mayor they could shut down the Council really quickly. Mayor Labadie stated that she liked the way it was currently done where they just respect each other and take turns getting their opinions across to each other. Councilmember Callies referenced Roberts Rules of Order and stated that she felt items eleven and twelve seemed to be overkill and would really bog the Council down. City Administrator Nevinski stated that his observation of working with the Council for the last few years is that when the Council is going through the agenda, they were appropriately formal, so it was easy to follow what was happening in the meeting. He stated that he also felt that when there was a discussion happening amongst the Council they have been able to have a dialogue and have not gotten bogged down in the formality. He noted that within the discussion format, they could allow the conversation to just flow, as they are currently doing, and modify the Rules to deal with the conflict that Councilmember Callies had raised. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OCTOBER 28, 2024 Page 8 of 9 Mayor Labadie suggested that they continue this discussion at a future meeting so they had time to discuss the next agenda item. There was consensus to continue discussion of the bylaws at the next Work Session meeting. 3. CIVICPLUS CRT SOFTWARE Communications Coordinator Wilson gave an overview of some of the different communication methods available for residents to use to communicate with the City, including SeeClickFix software. He stated that in March of 2024, the City had transitioned its website software to CivicPlus which has a program called Citizen Request Tracker (CRT) that is included at no additional cost. He noted that currently, the City was paying five thousand seven hundred dollars for SeeClickFix per year, so if the City moved to using the CRT, it would save the City that amount, which is what staff was recommending. He gave a brief overview of how the CRT system would work and look from a resident and staff standpoint. He stated that to cancel renewal of the SeeClickFix contract the City needed to submit a notice of cancellation by no later than November 1, 2024. City Administrator Nevinski stated that Councilmember Zerby was a big advocate for SeeClickFix and he had spoken with him last week to let him know that the Council would be considering this item. He stated that he believed that Councilmember Zerby's main concern was that things may be less visible than they are on SeeClickFix. He noted that he felt that staff had changed some of their processes and were a lot more responsive to people and things that come up. He stated that the City receives requests in many ways and SeeClickFix is just a small portion of that communication. He stated that as it is, staff felt like SeeClickFix was an expensive tool for how the City actually receives information. Councilmember Sanschagrin asked if there were any capabilities that could be provided or ways to compensate for the transparency issue. Communications Coordinator Wilson stated that for the public to be able to see it they could do something via a quarterly report which could also demonstrate the response times also. He explained that with the current system, people kind of comment on each other's things and may actually re -open tickets that have already been closed. He stated that the CRT would help to prevent that kind of situation. Councilmember Sanschagrin asked what was meant by the statement that City staff would respond to each request in a timely manner. Public Works Director Morreim stated that it depended on the request or complaint because some can be within a day, some are safety sensitive so they will get there within an hour, and others are more project -like and can take months or even into another calendar year. He stated that he wanted to assure the Council and the residents that staff really does work diligently and as quickly as they can to the issues that come in. Councilmember Sanschagrin stated that he felt that Public Works Director Morreim was actually referring to the time to resolve the issue, but asked if staff would respond to people right away to acknowledge that the input had been received. CITY OF SHOREWOOD WORK SESSION COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OCTOBER 28, 2024 Page 9 of 9 Public Works Director Morreim stated that sometimes they respond to the input within a few minutes of receipt and assured the Council that they were always looking at them regardless of the time that they come in. Councilmember Sanschagrin asked if someone logged something in, would the City respond to them within a day. Public Works Director Morreim stated that, in general, that would be the case, but there may be times on the weekend when it would not be within a day. Planning Director Darling noted that property complaints can take longer to resolve because the City has to give them defined time periods in order to correct the issue. Councilmember Callies stated that she thought that Councilmember Zerby would actually go on and check what was on SeeClickFix. She noted that she tried to do it and could not see it and asked if she needed to set up an account in order to see the information. She asked if Council, with the new CRT system, would be able to go in and look at what complaints or issues have been reported and the responses. Communications Coordinator Wilson stated that he believed that there could be log -ins, but questioned whether it may be a policy thing about what people could see on the back end. City Administrator Nevinski stated that he felt that they could easily run a quarterly report for the Council. Councilmember Sanschagrin stated that the City could also choose to go back to SeeClickFix if they did not like the new CRT system. Communications Coordinator Wilsons stated that Public Works Director Morreim had run a report showing how long it took to complete a request and explained that in 2021, on average, it was one hundred and thirty-one days and in 2024 the average is sixteen days to resolve the issues. He noted that right now it only takes one day to acknowledge the requests. There was consensus of the Council to direct staff to cancel the SeeClickFix contract and transition to the CRT program through CivicPlus. 4. ADJOURN Sanschagrin moved, Maddy seconded, Adjourning the City Council Work Session Meeting of October 28, 2024, at 6:49 P.M. Motion passed 4/0.