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Pk.08.22.2023 DraftCITY OF SHOREWOOD 5755 COUNTRY CLUB RD PARK COMMISSION MEETING SHOREWOOD CITY HALL TUESDAY, AUGUST 22, 2023 7:00 P.M. MINUTES CONVENE PARK COMMISSION MEETING Chair Hirner convened the meeting at 7:00 p.m. Roll Call Present: Chair Hirner, Commissioners Garske, Wenner, Czerwonka, City Council Liaison Zerby; Parks and Recreation Director Crossfield; and Planning Director Darling Absent: None Review Agenda Garske moved to approve the agenda as written. Czerwonka seconded the motion. Motion carried 4-0. APPROVAL OF MINUTES Park Commission Meeting Minutes of July 25, 2023 Garske moved to approve the minutes of the July 25, 2023 meeting as written. Wenner seconded the motion. Motion carried 4-0. MATTERS FROM THE FLOOR There were none. 4. NEW BUSINESS A. Mill Street Trail Project Planning Director Darling gave a brief overview of the history of the Mill Street Trail Project. She noted that in 2011 an ad hoc trail committee identified Mill Street as a high priority trail need for the community. She explained that the City Council adopted the plan and has used it to implement the Smithtown Road trail and the Strawberry Lane trail, which is currently under construction. She noted that the CIP shows the Mill Street Trail Project proceeding forward with right of way acquisition in 2024 with construction in 2025. She introduced Luke Sandstrom, Hennepin County, who was here to review the recent public engagement process. Luke Sandstrom, Hennepin County, explained that he was here to give a final update about the proposed Mill Street Trail Project. He reviewed the location of the proposed trail, feasibility report, the two design options for the layout, and their public engagement efforts. He explained that they asked people to vote for their preference in the design layout details and explained that 58% of people chose Option #2 as their preference and noted that 9% if people said that either option would work. He stated that two of the biggest areas of comments were related to cyclist and pedestrian safety. He stated that they recently found out that the Department of Transportation is proposing to replace the bridge over Highway 7 in 2029 and noted that their plans currently do not propose to touch the bridge. He noted that it is kind of a bottleneck point, so when this project comes through in the future, they will plan to work with the DOT to widen the bridge in order to accommodate the trail section through the area. He stated that they are coming to Shorewood and Excelsior to explain what the preferred layout from their public engagement with the understanding that they are looking for municipal consent and support for the project. He noted that they only have about 15% of the design details determined so if they receive support they will go complete those design details and will bring it back to the cities for approval. He stated that the City of Excelsior has expressed support for the project, however, they supported Option #1, which removes the bikeable shoulders, which was not the preferred option. Commissioner Wenner asked if Excelsior had changed their stance because she was under the impression that their council was also in support of Option #2. Mr. Sandstrom explained that initially their feasibility report did not get into the options and was more about having a 10 foot trail. He stated that their city council did not officially weigh in with an opinion until last night. Chair Hirner stated that there was a comment included in the report that mentions a lot of retaining walls and asked for an explanation of how those would be designed. Mr. Sandstrom explained that there are no proposed retaining walls in the base layout, and noted that they just show grading out to meet existing. He stated that would be negotiated as part of the direct connection with residents over the next year. He stated that the retaining wall placement will depend on what the grade will be and determined on a case by case basis. Commissioner Wenner asked about the trees, especially the mature trees along Mill Street. She asked if there were any plans to move any trees. Mr. Sandstrom stated that they had done a tree inventory along the corridor and explained that typically ‘moving’ trees, if they are mature, is not really something that is feasible from a cost perspective. He reviewed some of the trees that would be directly in the path of the trail that would need to be removed and noted that the trees that are located outside the path within the grading limit are ones that they can go on a case by case basis in their efforts to save trees. He stated that with Option #2, the preferred option, there are 24 trees that are within the footprint of the trail. He stated for anything that is impacted, the County fully supports tree replacement as well as above and beyond landscaping. Commissioner Wenner asked if when he was talking about ‘replacement’ if that would be with younger trees. Mr. Sandstrom explained that it would be determined on a case by case basis but admitted that they would be able to do a ‘like for like’ replacement. Chair Hirner asked if there was anyone in the audience that would like to address the Commission or Mr. Sandstrom. Nikki Bedford, 6025 Mill Street, stated that she and Mr. Anderson are on the wider part of the options that have been presented within Section A. She stated that their concerns are related to some of the mature trees and the amount of landscaping that they already have there. She stated that they were hoping for a more conservative approach versus the wider path. She stated they have been in this home since 2000 so their landscaping is mature and explained that they were not super excited about the proposed project. She stated that she is hopeful that Mr. Sandstrom really will be able to work with homeowners on a case by case basis for this project. Dave Anderson, 6035 Mill Street, stated that he has concerns about the potential safety issues with having no shoulder. He stated that people seem to be very obtuse about the road and have a feeling that they ‘own’ the road. He stated that he was petitioning the neighborhood for a street speed sign and is afraid some of these things will be thrown out without the wider roadway. He stated that there is already snow that loads up on their driveway from Mill Street and with this plan they will have to move two separate banks of snow and it will be difficult to use snow blowers when there are larger events. He stated that he was concerned about the maintenance they will have to do and noted that he thinks they will have to purchase a different lawn mower for the ditch because he will not be able to use his existing rider mower in the ditch. He stated that at first they were totally against the plans because of the privacy issues and this is already a busy street, however, he may feel differently if it would help bring more people safety. He shared examples of when his children were in elementary school and numerous times when he would walk with them in the area and was almost hit. Chair Hirner asked if Ms. Bedford and Mr. Anderson would prefer the option with the shoulders. Mr. Anderson stated that was correct because of safety and the service vehicles that will be in the roadway from time to time. He stated that he thinks there will be less safety issues with Option #2. He gave examples of speeding and angry drivers despite it being a residential neighborhood. Ms. Bedford stated that the speed limit is supposed to be 30 mph but they believe most people drive 40 mph or faster. She explained that her preference would be for the more conservative option of Option #1 because it will affect her front berm with several mature trees and bushes. Chair Hirner expressed appreciation for their input and thoughts on this project. He asked the Commission to share their opinion on which option they would recommend. Commissioner Garske stated that he appreciates the input given by Ms. Bedford and Mr. Anderson because they raised some points that he had not considered. He stated that the information and photos they shared helped him understand how secluded their homes are even though they are located on a busier road. He stated that he is persuaded that Option #2 is probably the better option especially because he has concerns about the congestion on that road if there are no shoulders. Commissioner Wenner stated that if Excelsior votes to support Option #1 on their section and Shorewood votes to support Option #2, what will happen with the project. She asked if the two cities needed to come to an agreement. Chair Hirner stated that his understanding is that the pathway will ‘pinch off’ either in Shorewood and Excelsior or between Chanhassen and Shorewood. Mr. Sandstrom stated that the two cities do not need to come into agreement and stated that if one city chooses the options with shoulders, then somewhere near the city limits there will be a transition point to merge the trail sections. Chair Hirner stated that he also supports Option #2 because not having the bike path would do a disservice to the traffic flow in the area. He stated that he still thinks there is a lot of work to be done by the County to work with the homeowners to ensure that they take all their concerns into consideration, but is hopeful that process will work well and that everyone will leave satisfied. Commissioner Wenner asked staff about the width of the path and if it was negotiable. She asked if they had to stay at 10 feet wide in order to secure funding. Planning Director Darling stated that they have the option to recommend a narrower path, but a 10 foot wide trail is recommended for multi-users, especially when they have two directions like they would in this case. She stated that it is very clear within the grant applications that the wider the trail, the more likely they are to receive funding because trails under 10 feet are typically left out entirely. Commissioner Wenner stated that she loves the old trees on this roadway and hates to see them go, but she has also been down there several time and seen small kids walking which is terrifying. Garske moved to recommend approval of Option #2 for the Mill Street Trail project. Czerwonka seconded the motion. Motion carried 4-0. Compost Bin at Freeman Park Gardens Charlotte and Layla, representing Girl Scout Troop #18018, presented information to the Commission regarding their efforts to achieve the Silver Award by providing a compost bin in the Shorewood Community Garden space and gave a brief presentation regarding their plans. Commissioner Wenner stated that she is a long-time composter and knows that these bins are sometimes not the easiest to use. She stated that she knows many people have trouble differentiating compostables and asked who would be responsible for emptying it and verifying that the correct materials were in it. Charlotte and Layla explained that they plan to do an annual check up on the bin and noted that they are also planning to have a simple informational sign next to the bin that will hopefully help. They explained that their goal is for it to be simple enough that a kindergartner can understand it. Chair Hirner asked if the composted dirt would then be incorporated back into the community garden. Park and Recreation Director Crossfield confirmed that this would be the plan. Smoking in Public Spaces Park and Recreation Director Crossfield reviewed the recent legislation that legalized adult-use cannabis which took effect on August 1, 2023. Chair Hirner asked if there was an age that this would apply within the parks and if the City should say that there can be no smoking around the ballfields or soccer fields because there are children present. Park and Recreation Director Crossfield explained that the City did not currently have a no smoking ordinance at this point in time. She stated that the law allows a person that is 21 years of age or older to possess and use cannabis. Commissioner Wenner stated that she would be more inclined to lump marijuana smoking with alcohol use as far as parks and trails go, rather than tobacco. She asked about the City’s policies on alcohol in the parks and on the trails. Commissioner Czerwonka asked if the City had any restrictions on beer drinking in the parks. Park and Recreation Director Crossfield stated that no alcohol use is allowed, except for Badger Park, with Council approval. Planning Director Darling explained that it would mostly be for special events. Commissioner Wenner stated that from her perspective she would support the City staying along the lines of alcohol use in the parks for marijuana. She stated that the goal and mission for all of the City parks is to have safe and healthy places to move people and not for people to be able to drink and smoke. She stated that she would be in favor of banning all marijuana use within the City parks. Commissioner Czerwonka stated that he would also support that. Commissioner Garske stated that he would like to address it in more of a piecemeal manner and think in terms of ‘buckets’ such as trails versus parks. He stated that he agrees with the concept that this is an intoxicating substance, but it can be used for medicinal purposes as well, which alcohol cannot. He stated that his feeling is that it should be banned along with alcohol in the parks but explained that he would be a bit more open to its use on the trails. He explained that he would not be as concerned with someone deciding to go for a walk and smoking a joint as they walk. Commissioner Czerwonka expressed concern about being able to enforce and control some of these decisions because if they cannot, then he does not think they should have it. He stated that if they have a rule but cannot enforce it he feels it will just be a helter-skelter kind of situation. Commissioner Wenner noted that the City does not differentiate between sidewalks and trails, so whatever they decide will essentially need to be an all or nothing choice. Chair Hirner stated that there is not a lot of information available yet or even a consensus among cities about how to handle this situation with the new legislation. He stated that he wonders if the best course of action would be to simply ask staff to do more research and come up with recommendations based on what other communities are doing. Planning Director Darling explained that she had been monitoring other cities agendas and has found that cities are very split. She stated that if the cities have already banned smoking in parks, they do not have to do anything, because it is already illegal to smoke ‘anything’ in their parks. She stated that cities that allow cigarette smoking will need to make a quick decision on where they want to sit on this particular fence post. Park and Recreation Director Crossfield noted that in her experience, cities that do not allow smoking also do not allow vaping and e-cigarettes but noted that she has found more flexibility in their approach to alcohol because of things like athletic tournaments. Commissioner Wenner stated that she can see both side of the argument. Commissioner Czerwonka stated that he grew up where people would pull their shades down and have a joint, but he is concerned that if the City allows some form of dope in the parks that they will not be able to know who is totally stoned. He stated that when somebody is drunk you can usually see it and smell it but you cannot always tell when they are using marijuana. Chair Hirner asked what the Commission felt about tackling them all together and saying ‘no smoking’ and that will cover cigarettes, marijuana, and vaping. He stated that he was not sure if that was the ‘right’ answer for the City. Park and Recreation Director Crossfield stated that would certainly be an option and asked whether they would want to allow it in designated spaces, such as parking lots. She stated that they could also put limitations such as that it not be allowed within 100 feet of a playground. Commissioner Wenner stated that she would like to see there be some caveats. Commissioner Czerwonka asked if there would be a liability issue for the City if someone chose to smoke dope and something happened in the park. Planning Director Darling stated that the City would not be any more responsible than if they were not smoking something and had an accident in the park. Park and Recreation Director Crossfield noted that Roseville has a rule that smoking is prohibited near programs where youth are participating, but it is allowed in other areas of the park. Commissioner Garske asked if the expectation would be that whatever the City decides then the SLMPD would be the ones enforcing it. Park and Recreation Director Crossfield stated that was correct and Chief Tholen has encouraged the cities to be as consistent as possible. Chair Hirner asked if they knew what the other cities within the SLMPD jurisdiction were considering. Commissioner Wenner asked if the City had asked the SLMPD if they had recommendations and preferences for how the cities should handle this. Planning Director Darling stated that the SLMPD has given the cities some recommendations and believes that they would generally like to see a ban on smoking so they did not have to differentiate between one type of smoking versus another. Chair Hirner stated that he would support a smoking ban to include tobacco, marijuana, and vaping products, with a caveat at that the parking lot is acceptable as long as it is a certain distance from the youth activity locations such as playgrounds or ballfields. Commissioner Czerwonka asked if he was suggesting that it be allowed in designated areas. Chair Hirner confirmed that he was thinking of specific parking lots where he feels smoking could be allowed without causing problems. He stated that if they decide to go down this path he thinks that they will need to have designated places for the cigarette butts to go so they are not just thrown on the ground. Commissioner Garske stated that he isn’t sure he was ready to make a recommendation tonight and would suggest that they table further discussion until the next meeting. He stated that he does not want to have something quite as vague as Roseville, but would perhaps support a ban on smoking, in general, throughout the parks, but perhaps allowing it in parking lots and designated areas. He stated that he thinks he would also be in favor of allowing smoking along the trails as well. Chair Hirner stated that he would be fine with allowing it on trails as long as it was not inside the park. Commissioner Wenner stated that there could be restrictions such as around youth sports. Commissioner Czerwonka expressed concern that they were just making things way too complicated and difficult to enforce. He stated that they are concerned about the safety of the parks and asked how they can maintain it and allow people to feel comfortable. He stated that on the trail they cannot control what is happening, so he would suggest that they leave the trails alone, but felt that the main portion of the parks should be ‘smoke free’ zones and include all forms of smoking. Commissioner Wenner expressed concern that this would mean that the City would be banning two substances that are legal within their parks. Commissioner Czerwonka stated that he feels it is oxymoronic to allow beer at a sporting event when they are talking about clean health and good living. Commissioner Wenner stated that she thinks putting a ban in place in the parks will make a lot more work for the Police Department. Chair Hirner stated that the City could go down this path and allow it with permits like they do for beer at the special events. Commissioner Czerwonka expressed hesitation about that idea because going from event to event is not being consistent and adds an administrative chore. He stated that he would suggest that the City either does it or doesn’t do it. Commissioner Wenner stated that she is a former smoker and feels that quitting smoking is more difficult than quitting opioids and noted that getting in trouble for having a few puffs in your car feels like it would be ridiculous. Commissioner Czerwonka stated that he understands her concern but the City parks are essentially a ‘public square’ and feels it is up to the City to say, here are the rules. Park and Recreation Director Crossfield reminded the Commission that they do not need to have consensus or a detailed plan because the Council is simply looking for feedback at this point. She explained that the Council are planning to discuss this issue sometime in next month. She stated that what she has heard the Commission express is that they were not in favor of a full ban, but would like to allow some exceptions for people to have the options for recreational use of tobacco or marijuana on public property. CIP Section Related to Parks Chair Hirner noted that the CIP is pretty straight forward for this year with the Freeman Park overlay. He asked if it was still on plan, according to budget. Planning Director Darling explained that the bids had come in higher than expected, but the Council agreed to transfer some money from the reserves in order to cover the difference. She stated that the City also did not receive the grant that they were hoping to help fund this project. She stated that the Council approved the project without the alternate of paving the trail through the woods so that portion will be a gravel trail. Chair Hirner noted that there is nothing on the docket from a CIP perspective for 2024 with the idea of holding things steady and maintaining. We reviewed some of the longer term CIP projects beginning in 2025. He asked if the proposed cost of $150,000 for Cathcart would be enough considering the pricing that the City has been seeing for other projects. Planning Director Darling stated that was a fair question and reviewed some of the recent projects and what they entailed and noted that the Commission could add around $25,000 to help make adjustments for inflation. She noted that one additional expense at Cathcart will be excavating the swing set area and noted that it would be nice if they could have it be fully wheelchair accessible rather than just having one entry point. Commissioner Garske stated that the north Freeman Park playground is included in the CIP for 7 years from now and asked the Commission which park needed more attention. Chair Hirner stated that he feels it is clear that Cathcart should be the next park and explained his reasoning. Park and Recreation Director Crossfield stated that if the Commission would like to add pickleball courts, they could also add that into their CIP recommendations. The Commission discussed various CIP plans including their support for inclusion of pickleball courts, however were not sure where they should be put within the existing plans. Commissioner Garske asked how much it would cost to install tennis courts at someplace like Southshore. Planning Director Darling explained that it cost $250,000 for the Badger Park tennis courts and they received some equipment grants which bought down the price a bit. Commissioner Garske asked if the cost for pickleball courts as comparable. Planning Director Darling stated that it would depend on how many courts they put in. Commissioner Garske asked about how the Commission receives the funding for the projects that they have included on the CIP. Chair Hirner stated that in that past, the Commission has put in what they think is the cost, but that was just for planning purposes. He stated that when they get to the year for the project they make a recommendation to the Council who then has to make a decision depending on whether the costs have come in on budget or not. Planning Director Darling noted that there are also transfers in every year from the General Fund that funds park costs and noted that they also receive Park Dedication Funds from development. The Commission discussed ways to shift expenses around including: bumping up Cathcart for 2025 to $175,000; take $10,000 from Southshore master plan and move it into 2024; push out the Manor Park Amphitheater to 2032; move forward pickleball; move hockey boards to 2028-2029 at Cathcart; pull Southshore park reconstruction into 2027 and increase it to $300,000; and move Manor Park retaining wall/tennis work to 2024 and plan for $30,000. The Commission discussed whether there was a way to determine how many people are using the existing courts. Commissioner Wenner noted that within the work plan discussion of the CIP is also include for September and October. Park and Recreation Director Crossfield stated that both she and City Administrator Nevinski were new and believes that the timing may be a bit different than usual and explained that she believed that they can come back next month with some Council feedback. Planning Director Darling stated that she did not think the Council was adopting their CIP until later. Commissioner Garske asked if that meant that there was the possibility for some back and forth conversations about some of these items. Park and Recreation Director Crossfield confirmed that there should be a chance to make changes next month. Council Liaison Zerby explained that his experience has been that the CIP is a guiding document and a vision. He noted that the City Council recently had a work session discussion where they discussed budget items and explained that he felt there was flexibility and an understanding that things will get moved around and will change. Commissioner Garske suggested that they may also want to add lacrosse fencing and asked if the association would help cover some of the costs. Chair Hirner suggested that staff come back to the Commission after they have some of those kinds of conversations with the associations and see what can be done and where it can be plugged into the plans. He stated that he wasn’t sure that they should put anything into the CIP just yet for the fencing because he feels that is more of a ‘wish list’ kind of item. He reviewed the proposed CIP changes that the Commission had discussed. Garske moved to recommend approval of the changes to the CIP as proposed: bumping up Cathcart for 2025 to $175,000; take $10,000 from Southshore master plan and move it into 2024; push out the Manor Park Amphitheater to 2032; move forward pickleball; move hockey boards to 2028-2029 at Cathcart; pull Southshore park reconstruction into 2027 and increase it to $300,000; and move Manor Park retaining wall/tennis work to 2024 and plan for $30,000. Wenner seconded the motion. Motion carried 4-0. OLD BUSINESS A. Pickleball Update Park and Recreation Director Crossfield noted that at the last meeting she was directed to reach out to the pickleball players and get their input on what they would like to see in order to make the courts more playable. She stated that there one request was to fix or replace the net at Cathcart. She stated that there have been repairs made and noted that there are plans to replace it next year. She explained that they also expressed a strong desire for caged off courts. STAFF AND LIAISON REPORTS / UPDATES City Council Council Liaison Zerby gave an overview of recent Council activities and discussion as reflected in meeting minutes. Staff Park and Recreation Director Crossfield stated that the City held Safety Camp earlier this month and had 23 participants and expressed her appreciation to the Excelsior Fire District for their assistance. She stated that Movie in the Park was cancelled due to weather and noted that they are able to reschedule for next year at no cost, however the licensing for Jungle Book has expired, so they will choose a new movie for next year. Chair Hirner asked about the age range for Safety Camp. Park and Recreation Director Crossfield stated that she believed it was for students enter 3rd through 5th grades. Chair Hirner stated that his son is 12 and he brought up the idea of having a Safety Camp type of event for older kids. He asked if there were other programs for things like bike safety and other things that would apply for kids who are a bit older than elementary aged. Park and Recreation Director Crossfield noted that she had not seen something like that for older participants other than ‘home alone’ type classes for older kids. Council Liaison Zerby stated that he had received a report from his neighbor about the e-bike ‘gang’ in the Badger Park parking lot. He stated that the neighbor reported that there were over 20 of them that were popping wheelies and being rather aggressive. He explained that it had made his neighbor very nervous. He suggested that the Commission plant a seed about this topic for future discussion. Chair Hirner agreed that there is probably a whole conversation that needs to be had about e-bikes and asked staff to research what other communities are doing and bring it back for a future meeting. He stated that the City may want to consider an e-bike safety program also. 7. ADJOURN Garske moved to adjourn the Park Commission Meeting of August 22, 2023 at 9:21 p.m. Czerwonka seconded the motion. Motion carried 4-0.